My teenager wants to offer horse care service - some questions for you all

[paddy555]

OK. Insurance aside, what age would be acceptable to you?

age to me would be irrelevant. I don't have competition horses but I do have 8 and I would be looking for experience. Field horses and stabled horses are no different. They both have the same capacity to either get hurt or do damage. Exams would also be irrelevant. Experience is what matters.

She does have pretty much sole care of her own two horses. Didn't think to say that, I assumed it would obvious she does have experience. And the problem is those bigger commercial yards do not exist here within commutable distance.

sorry but care of her own 2 horses wouldn't be sufficient. What happens if she goes to a yard where the owner is on holiday and a horse is looking a bit odd. What would she do, how would she deal with it, what experience would she have to know if it was just a bit bored or if it had the first signs of colic. How many colic horses has she had to personally deal with, how many choking ones, how many with torn arteries. How many large panicking horses has she handled, ones on their hind legs threatening to come down on her, totally terrified (the horse) does she have the experience to calm it and get it under control.

It is fine saying call the vet but in all honesty any horse can do any of the above and more and it takes a long time (when you are waiting with a seriously ill horse) for the vet to turn up even though they are going flat out to get to you.

does her dad have a lot of experience handling horses? horses in trouble panic, seriously panic and someone could get hurt.

There are 17yo's who I would totally trust. Those are kids who were riding before they came out of the womb, grew up on a stud, stables, competition yard etc and who knew horses inside out and had handled lots of them on a daily basis. Other than those sort of youngsters I wouldn't leave a 17yo on my yard alone. I would be supervising them to avoid them or my horses getting hurt or damaged.

I think this is expecting far too much from her and also from the owners.
It is all fine, easy and straightforward looking after horses until it isn't and then it is dangerous, you risk losing a horse and/or getting seriously hurt.

If she wants to work with horses can she move away from home and find a training placement to gain experience. A few years of experience, probably a spell of work at an equine vet hospital would help and she will be well away to offer expert and experienced freelance care.

I think to many horse owners exams are irrelevant. Knowing theory is fine it is coping in the real world of horses that is important.

 

[TheOldTrout]

My horse is at livery at a riding school. A number of liveries will pay one of the 16-year-olds to look after their horse for holiday cover, for example. In summer it's just bringing them in for a check, a feed and a groom.The 16-year-olds all own or share a horse on the yard and have grown up, horse-wise, at the riding school. However, there are a lot of adults around in case of an emergency, the YO lives on site, riding school instructors, other liveries etc. It works well.

 

[paddy555]

My horse is at livery at a riding school. A number of liveries will pay one of the 16-year-olds to look after their horse for holiday cover, for example. In summer it's just bringing them in for a check, a feed and a groom.The 16-year-olds all own or share a horse on the yard and have grown up, horse-wise, at the riding school. However, there are a lot of adults around in case of an emergency, the YO lives on site, riding school instructors, other liveries etc. It works well.

that is surely the difference though. Working as a freelance groom in a riding school, livery yard where there are people is very different.. You are not in sole charge. There will either be a YO or even just people around to help. I don't think there is any problem in a 16yo grooming a horse, putting it out, cleaning it's bed it's all the unpredictable things that can happen when you are on your own, in charge and lack experience.

 

[[154267]]

I hear what a lot of you are saying, and she would not be offering to handle any horse she hadn't already got to know from hands off tasks (her thoughts). But honestly a hell of a lot of horse owners are not qualified to look after their own horses judging from a lot of these replies!!

As I've mentioned several times we do not live in an area with commercial yards offering employment, there is nothing within sensible daily driving distance, and even those at a distance only employ on a freelance basis (or use child volunteers). So if she wants work she has to find it herself.

It goes without saying, surely, that she would not be left anywhere without a parent being present.

And yes in time moving away will probably be needed, but just now she wants to earn a bit of money doing what she loves. If all she can do is poo pick for someone who is on site then she'll do that!

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I hear what a lot of you are saying, and she would not be offering to handle any horse she hadn't already got to know from hands off tasks (her thoughts). But honestly a hell of a lot of horse owners are not qualified to look after their own horses judging from a lot of these replies!!

As I've mentioned several times we do not live in an area with commercial yards offering employment, there is nothing within sensible daily driving distance, and even those at a distance only employ on a freelance basis (or use child volunteers). So if she wants work she has to find it herself.

It goes without saying, surely, that she would not be left anywhere without a parent being present.

I don't think it does go without saying that she wouldn't be somewhere without a parent present. I think that's important information to include. There were many parents who were really surprised that I expected a parent to be on site - and felt it completely unnecessary because their daughters weren't supervised when doing their own horses. They didn't see the difference between the risk I'd incur and the risk they took but it is very different.

 

[stangs]

Speaking as someone who was (often and ill-advisably) left as sole charge of a yard as a teen, you think you're more than competent until a horse starts colicking or comes in with a hock swollen to the size of their head, and you know the yard doesn't have ££ to be spending on vet bills. Then you realise just how much you need a knowledgeable adult around to tell you what to do.

and even those at a distance only employ on a freelance basis

Is this not what she's looking for? A groom service is always going to be freelance.

If I were her, I'd look at offering ragworting or poo-picking services for the time being - easy enough job and a good way to show people you're reliable without putting their horses on the line - or find a working student placement with accomodation somewhere in the country, so she can get experience working with other people's horses and be able to provide a recommendation from a name should she eventually decide to go freelance.

I also don't think it's advisable for someone to go freelance right after leaving school (wouldn't look great on a CV) but aware that's a separate topic.

 

[foxy1]

It's not about "getting to know the horse first", it's about a 16 year old child dealing with an emergency situation such as a colic/seriously injured/ trapped/cast horse

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Poo picking, making up feeds, mucking out, basic welfare checks. Hardly a fully fledged groom service! But fine I get it, you have access to highly qualified staff when you need them. Lots of people up here don't and have to be totally self reliant.

Also the nearest large place that employs staff (but freelance) is a 70 mile round trip away.

But if you are employing someone to be there when you aren't, that person has to be able to deal calmly with emergencies. There might never be an emergency but we all know that you have to prepare for the worst case scenario with horses.

 

[[154267]]

"Is this not what she's looking for? A groom service is always going to be freelance."

What I'm saying is all the same issues apply if she's "employed" but still working freelance, plus she risks being put in dangerous situations (which I have personally seen) by her "employer". But as I said, non starter as these places are not commutable.

I think we're on a totally different page. Certainly didn't get this reaction when I asked locally! Thanks all.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

But honestly a hell of a lot of horse owners are not qualified to look after their own horses judging from a lot of these replies!!

I think that unfair; there’s a large difference between being capable of looking after your own horse and being professionally qualified to be paid to look after someone else’s.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

On what different page? You asked two questions in the OP, one regarding insurance and one about payment, which people have answered. The feedback seems to generally be that people would not pay for this set up. Suggestions of alternatives to gain experience and earn some money have been made

ETA if it's about earning some money probably the poo picking thing seems the most practical.

The insurance thing might over rule it anyway if under 18s are excluded from commercial handling of horses in a freelance setting.

 

[teapot]

"Is this not what she's looking for? A groom service is always going to be freelance."

What I'm saying is all the same issues apply if she's "employed" but still working freelance, plus she risks being put in dangerous situations (which I have personally seen) by her "employer". But as I said, non starter as these places are not commutable.

I think we're on a totally different page. Certainly didn't get this reaction when I asked locally! Thanks all.

There's (you would hope) a chain of management in places that offer employment, whether that's a senior groom, or a yard manager. It really isn't the same as going out on your own as a freelance groom, regardless of age. It's you and you only.

FWIW I was coming from this, not with competition horses, but a few years of advertising and sifting for freelance grooms to do first/last checks, poo picking and day to day stuff for a reasonably sized well run centre with a huge mix of rs horses and liveries (some of whom got the better of the most experienced staff past my window ). We never ever had anyone under 18 on a freelance basis, and qualifications didn't really come into it as much as actual experience did when sifting, not least because of people over-egging their experience (coaching roles were different). Those working there that were under 18 were employees and always under some form of supervision, not least for their own safety and our insurance requirements.

Wish her the best of luck

 

[Velcrobum]

While I cannot help you with prices, good on your daughter for taking an initiative. Perhaps initially she could offer help with chores rather than full horse care until she is a bit older and more experienced. Lady G raises some very valid points about liabilities.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Actual level of qualifications wouldn't bother me.

I know people who have BHS qualifications I wouldn't trust alone with my horse and people I trust 100% with my horse who don't have (m)any qualifications.

It's experience & attitude that matter to me but not many 16 years old will have that experience no matter how sensible they are.

Can she start with advertising for less horse grooming specific jobs like mucking out, poo picking, rag wort pulling and tack cleaning whilst she gets more experience?

Good luck to your daughter though, I hope she can find a way to make this work for her freelance work - it's nice to hear of a teenager want to make a go of something for themselves

 

[Red-1]

I feel that some people are coming at this from the point of view of owning stabled competition horses, whereas we have a lot of horses around here who are retired field ornaments. I think maybe we're talking/thinking at cross purposes. Probably wasn't the right place to ask.

I used to have competition horses but now have a semi retired old cob and a hunter type.

OK fair enough, I don't think her age is the main issue then (insurance aside). She clearly needs to get her next BHS stage which is useful feedback.

I wouldn't care about qualifications.

Age could worry me, but I see you say that she will be supervised by an adult.

In this case, I would pay for a check, chucking hay, poo picking, turning out, bringing in, picking feet etc if I were out and about busy for the day. I would expect to be called if anything was untoward and be able to come home to sort it, with the knowledge that there was an adult there to help/support her until I arrived. I would still expect insurance to be in place for in case she left the tap on, did something silly to injure the horses.

My horses are easy so I would expect her to come round once before to learn what to do, but she would not have to be over familiar with the horses.

However, the holiday livery would be a no-no. If I'm abroad, I need someone who is an actual professional.

Rigs is an old man and he is left with instructions that he isn't having a colic op, so if he is seriously ill, the freelancer would be expected to be there while he was PTS, having weighed up his options and negotiated with the vet as to what will and won't be provided. He sometimes gets cast and breaks a fence, I would expect a freelancer to be able to mend the fence. That isn't a big ask, as the alternative would be to leave him in, which would be unthinkable. If the power or water is cut off, I would expect the freelancer to make alternative arrangements, such as arrange for a bowser. If there was a burst water pipe, I would expect it isolated. The level of competence for a freelance holiday cover person is just so much more.

If I am away on a short trip, I do use a freelancer who would be competent to do this, but for longer trips, I tend to send the boys away so they become part of a big yard where all such eventualities would already have an action plan. Both yards I use are very professional and I sign over decision making to the YO with my vets, to make any decision including PTS.

I would consider your daughter for little jobs while I was somewhere reachable though, as long as insured and supervised.

 

[[154267]]

There's (you would hope) a chain of management in places that offer employment, whether that's a senior groom, or a yard manager.

Yes you would hope, but that's not how it works here in my experience. I would be worried about her working in some of the places closest to us (relatively speaking) even if it was practical.

 

[[154267]]

However, the holiday livery would be a no-no. If I'm abroad, I need someone who is an actual professional.

Yes absolutely fair point and by holiday cover I was really meaning the same jobs being done for several days at a time but I wouldn't anticipate her having sole responsibility for someone's horses without someone to call on, perhaps I didn't express myself very well.

So regular straightforward jobs is going to be the way to go, and that is very helpful feedback so thanks to everyone for that.

 

[TheOldTrout]

that is surely the difference though. Working as a freelance groom in a riding school, livery yard where there are people is very different.. You are not in sole charge. There will either be a YO or even just people around to help. I don't think there is any problem in a 16yo grooming a horse, putting it out, cleaning it's bed it's all the unpredictable things that can happen when you are on your own, in charge and lack experience.

Exactly, that's why I included my last sentence.

 

[[154267]]

Can she start with advertising for less horse grooming specific jobs like mucking out, poo picking, rag wort pulling and tack cleaning whilst she gets more experience?

That's pretty much what we're envisaging, I think I just expressed my original post badly!

 

[Clodagh]

When I had horses I’d not have minded a 17 year old doing stuff while I wasn’t there. I wouldn’t want to be out if the country perhaps but if I was hunting and wanted someone to get the others in, bed down etc I see no issue with her age. I never had difficult horses as I wouldn’t have wanted to cope with them myself.

 

[little_critter]

age to me would be irrelevant. I don't have competition horses but I do have 8 and I would be looking for experience. Field horses and stabled horses are no different. They both have the same capacity to either get hurt or do damage. Exams would also be irrelevant. Experience is what matters.


sorry but care of her own 2 horses wouldn't be sufficient. What happens if she goes to a yard where the owner is on holiday and a horse is looking a bit odd. What would she do, how would she deal with it, what experience would she have to know if it was just a bit bored or if it had the first signs of colic. How many colic horses has she had to personally deal with, how many choking ones, how many with torn arteries. How many large panicking horses has she handled, ones on their hind legs threatening to come down on her, totally terrified (the horse) does she have the experience to calm it and get it under control.

It is fine saying call the vet but in all honesty any horse can do any of the above and more and it takes a long time (when you are waiting with a seriously ill horse) for the vet to turn up even though they are going flat out to get to you.

does her dad have a lot of experience handling horses? horses in trouble panic, seriously panic and someone could get hurt.

There are 17yo's who I would totally trust. Those are kids who were riding before they came out of the womb, grew up on a stud, stables, competition yard etc and who knew horses inside out and had handled lots of them on a daily basis. Other than those sort of youngsters I wouldn't leave a 17yo on my yard alone. I would be supervising them to avoid them or my horses getting hurt or damaged.

I think this is expecting far too much from her and also from the owners.
It is all fine, easy and straightforward looking after horses until it isn't and then it is dangerous, you risk losing a horse and/or getting seriously hurt.

If she wants to work with horses can she move away from home and find a training placement to gain experience. A few years of experience, probably a spell of work at an equine vet hospital would help and she will be well away to offer expert and experienced freelance care.

I think to many horse owners exams are irrelevant. Knowing theory is fine it is coping in the real world of horses that is important.

I can see where you are coming from, and paying someone to care for your horses is a bit different to handling your own, however your post does make it sound like the majority of owners are not sufficiently qualified to handle their own horses.
I’ve been a horse owner for 15 years and i have no experience of many of the potential calamities you list.

That does beg the question, how does one gain such experience?
If exams aren’t sufficient, and the majority of horse handling is incident free, how does one tick the boxes to say you know how you’d react and how to deal with torn arteries, panicked horses, and other such emergencies?

 

[paddy555]

I can see where you are coming from, and paying someone to care for your horses is a bit different to handling your own, however your post does make it sound like the majority of owners are not sufficiently qualified to handle their own horses.
I’ve been a horse owner for 15 years and i have no experience of many of the potential calamities you list.

That does beg the question, how does one gain such experience?
If exams aren’t sufficient, and the majority of horse handling is incident free, how does one tick the boxes to say you know how you’d react and how to deal with torn arteries, panicked horses, and other such emergencies?

if you are going to look after other people's horses you will have gained the experience by working (paid or not) in yards/situations with them to be able to recognise and deal with problems. So if you are going to pay a freelancer too take charge say when you are on holiday you will know they have the background knowledge both to keep them selves safe and also to recognise problems.



the single horse owner learns by experience, I don't think you can take an exam to be able to deal with a panicking horse. You are very lucky not to have experienced any problems especially colic. I think I have experienced all I listed either in my own or other horses.

you say sufficiently qualified. There is no "qualified" about it. Horse experience is absolutely nothing to do with formal qualifications.

If bonnysmum's daughter does somewhere to do her check and feeding etc and finds a horse with colic she will no doubt ring the vet.. In the meantime what is she going to do? could she cope? There seems to be a lot of colic about ATM.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I can see where you are coming from, and paying someone to care for your horses is a bit different to handling your own, however your post does make it sound like the majority of owners are not sufficiently qualified to handle their own horses.
I’ve been a horse owner for 15 years and i have no experience of many of the potential calamities you list.

That does beg the question, how does one gain such experience?
If exams aren’t sufficient, and the majority of horse handling is incident free, how does one tick the boxes to say you know how you’d react and how to deal with torn arteries, panicked horses, and other such emergencies?

An owner making a judgement about whether to call a vet, administer basic 1st Aid, or just monitor is very different from an inexperienced 16 yr old having to make that decision. Very few owners have such limited experience and anyway, they are the ones paying the vet bill, so if they want a vet to look at a scratch, that is their choice, most wouldn't be happy at being asked to pay a vet bill because the groom panicked.

 

[[154267]]

An owner making a judgement about whether to call a vet, administer basic 1st Aid, or just monitor is very different from an inexperienced 16 yr old having to make that decision. Very few owners have such limited experience and anyway, they are the ones paying the vet bill, so if they want a vet to look at a scratch, that is their choice, most wouldn't be happy at being asked to pay a vet bill because the groom panicked.

Regardless of the experience of the person caring for their horses, would people not expect to be called and consulted? I know I would!! And if I was out of contact and said person called a vet to be on the safe side because I had made myself unavailable, I think I would actually be grateful.

However, I'm astounded that anyone thinks I'd ever let my teenager be put in a situation where the owner couldn't or didn't want to be contacted if there was a problem! She will be able to turn down unsuitable/unreasonable jobs! Something she wouldn't be able to do if she worked on a "local" (not local) yard incidentally.

 

[southerncomfort]

I've never used a freelance groom, but would have expected one to have had paid employment on a yard at some point to learn the ropes, and gain experience, before going solo.

Sorry OP, but I just wouldn't ever allow a 16 year old with a very basic qualification to be in sole charge of my ponies. I'd never forgive myself if they were injured because they lacked the experience to make good choices.

I love your daughter's ambition, and that she has a supportive mum, but you can't jump from the lowest rung of the ladder to the very top. For me, their are a few more rungs on the ladder before she will be ready for such a huge responsibility.

 

[Clodagh]

Regardless of the experience of the person caring for their horses, would people not expect to be called and consulted? I know I would!! And if I was out of contact and said person called a vet to be on the safe side because I had made myself unavailable, I think I would actually be grateful.

However, I'm astounded that anyone thinks I'd ever let my teenager be put in a situation where the owner couldn't or didn't want to be contacted if there was a problem! She will be able to turn down unsuitable/unreasonable jobs! Something she wouldn't be able to do if she worked on a "local" (not local) yard incidentally.

I’d just tell her to get on and do it and best of luck.
Hho does tend to catastrophise.

 

[[154267]]

I've never used a freelance groom, but would have expected one to have had paid employment on a yard at some point to learn the ropes, and gain experience, before going solo.

Sorry OP, but I just wouldn't ever allow a 16 year old with a very basic qualification to be in sole charge of my ponies. I'd never forgive myself if they were injured because they lacked the experience to make good choices.

I love your daughter's ambition, and that she has a supportive mum, but you can't jump from the lowest rung of the ladder to the very top. For me, their are a few more rungs on the ladder before she will be ready for such a huge responsibility.

I've said repeatedly this isn't about being in sole charge of anyone's ponies! God forbid I'd ever want her having that on her shoulders if this thread is in any way typical of most horse owners... It's about helping out with the jobs if the owner can't do them for any reason.

(If poo picking someone's paddocks while they're on holiday or incapacitated is the top rung then I pity all those highly qualified freelance grooms out there ).

 

[Kaylum]

Let's face it a person of any age can be totally useless. I have seen young people handle horses very well and have vast knowledge. I think it's trust with owners you need to build up first, and yes ofcourse I am sure anyone would call the owner first or even a horse friend of an owner could be the next one, if the owner was unavailable. You only need to look on social media to see how many people have little basic horse care knowledge.

 

[[154267]]

Does anyone else have any helpful thoughts to offer on pricing for things like poo picking or giving feeds, or is my very sensible, hard-working daughter simply incapable of doing any paid work, no matter how menial, due to her age and "only" having her BHS Stage 1 so far? (She can legally get married and be a mother in sole charge of a living human being at 16, insane though that is). Perhaps leaving school/education early is the problem, there's a long story behind that I can tell you!

 

[HaplessHorse]

I attempted to get a summer job (mucking out, poo pick, no handling) at a local livery yard and they advised me that insurance for under-18s is nigh on impossible, with the expense outweighing the reasonable benefits. So I think it would be a definite struggle to work in the equestrian industry, even in a hands-off role. Maybe get her to do the rest of her BHS exams and get some work experience in a different industry or in a general animal charity type-place (eg. RSPCA, dog’s/cat’s protection, etc) because they’re less dangerous than large animals, but much of the experience in dealing with emergencies and injuries will be applicable to horses.

I do not recommend leaving education this early, there is likely to be a college of some description that will take her on, maybe even an agricultural college? Even if she struggles academically agri colleges provide BTECS, T-levels, and BHS qualifications, and if she’s as hardworking as she sounds I’m sure she’d find a way around any issues.

Alternative qualifications are particularly important if she’s thinking of working in the equestrian industry, an alternative to horses would be hugely beneficial because she could get seriously injured and become unable to work with horses, sad as it sounds, it does happen. Last year, I had a serious riding accident with my Welsh D at the time, which (luckily) hasn’t resulted in me being totally unable to work with horses, but I do struggle to trust them and wouldn’t do it as a job. As well as physically having limitations, so I am aware of how dangerous it can be.

I’m the same age as your daughter, although, as I said, I’d never work with other people’s horses (in an hands-on capacity) anymore.

(I do still have my own, but I just have Saus and a very chilled cob, even then it took me months to trust my cob enough to go for a canter again or hop on bareback).