My teenager wants to offer horse care service - some questions for you all

[ihatework]

Does anyone else have any helpful thoughts to offer on pricing for things like poo picking or giving feeds, or is my very sensible, hard-working daughter simply incapable of doing any paid work, no matter how menial, due to her age and "only" having her BHS Stage 1 so far? (She can legally get married and be a mother in sole charge of a living human being at 16, insane though that is). Perhaps leaving school/education early is the problem, there's a long story behind that I can tell you!

Oh don’t be so defensive.
Your original post has completely morphed into a different scope.

I’d be looking at happily paying £10ph to a reliable teenager for general poo-picking/ragworting/mucking out tack cleaning. But I wouldn’t employ them at all for unsupervised horse handling/holiday cover. My freelancer I use for holiday cover is £15ph.

 

[foxy1]

The original post mentioned holiday cover and did not mention supervision by parent, hence replies

 

[[154267]]

I attempted to get a summer job (mucking out, poo pick, no handling) at a local livery yard and they advised me that insurance for under-18s is nigh on impossible, with the expense outweighing the reasonable benefits. So I think it would be a definite struggle to work in the equestrian industry, even in a hands-off role. Maybe get her to do the rest of her BHS exams and get some work experience in a different industry or in a general animal charity type-place (eg. RSPCA, dog’s/cat’s protection, etc) because they’re less dangerous than large animals, but much of the experience in dealing with emergencies and injuries will be applicable to horses.

I do not recommend leaving education this early, there is likely to be a college of some description that will take her on, maybe even an agricultural college? Even if she struggles academically agri colleges provide BTECS, T-levels, and BHS qualifications, and if she’s as hardworking as she sounds I’m sure she’d find a way around any issues.

Alternative qualifications are particularly important if she’s thinking of working in the equestrian industry, an alternative to horses would be hugely beneficial because she could get seriously injured and become unable to work with horses, sad as it sounds, it does happen. Last year, I had a serious riding accident with my Welsh D at the time, which (luckily) hasn’t resulted in me being totally unable to work with horses, but I do struggle to trust them and wouldn’t do it as a job. As well as physically having limitations, so I am aware of how dangerous it can be.

I’m the same age as your daughter, although, as I said, I’d never work with other people’s horses (in an hands-on capacity) anymore.

(I do still have my own, but I just have Saus and a very chilled cob, even then it took me months to trust my cob enough to go for a canter again or hop on bareback).

She has totally not ruled out returning to education but not just yet. Unfortunately to do what she wants to do (animal care qualifications) she will have no choice but to move away from home as there is nothing less than 2.5 hours journey away, and she isn't ready for that yet. So while she's finding her way in the world she wanted to use her passion to earn a bit of money.

(Insurance doesn't seem to stop the yards "near" us from employing much younger kids than she is, another reason why (distance aside) I'd rather she was in control of what she does/doesn't do!)

 

[[154267]]

Oh don’t be so defensive.
Your original post has completely morphed into a different scope.

I’d be looking at happily paying £10ph to a reliable teenager for general poo-picking/ragworting/mucking out tack cleaning. But I wouldn’t employ them at all for unsupervised horse handling/holiday cover. My freelancer I use for holiday cover is £15ph.

It hasn't, it was simply completely misinterpreted by many of you. Thanks for the info.

 

[[154267]]

The original post mentioned holiday cover and did not mention supervision by parent, hence replies

I made the mistake of assuming common sense applied

 

[paddy555]

Does anyone else have any helpful thoughts to offer on pricing for things like poo picking or giving feeds, or is my very sensible, hard-working daughter simply incapable of doing any paid work, no matter how menial, due to her age and "only" having her BHS Stage 1 so far? (She can legally get married and be a mother in sole charge of a living human being at 16, insane though that is). Perhaps leaving school/education early is the problem, there's a long story behind that I can tell you!

you seem critical of the comments, especially mine however you called your thread "horsecare service" and asked if people would use it.

If you daughter wants to have a business which involves offering a horse care service then that is a great idea. However for just about every job/business/occupation one needs to undertake training. In my day you became a "working pupil" I'm sure there must be similar training placements now. Most young people have to leave home to go to either uni, college, or apprenticeships at her age. Somehow you need to get the training whatever the distance.
Topped Off on here was a good example. About your daughter's age, at home, things didn't seem brilliant education wise and she wanted to work with racehorses. So she got an apprenticeship, moved to the yard, got whatever qualification there was, got tons of experience handling horses some of whom were no doubt not easy and then armed with that experience was able to move onto her chosen occupation. All done under supervision. I don't know how old she is now probably around 19 but would I trust her to freelance for my horses then very likely as I know, despite her young age, she will have sufficient experience to be able to handle a problem and recognise when she can't.

Regardless of the experience of the person caring for their horses, would people not expect to be called and consulted? I know I would!! And if I was out of contact and said person called a vet to be on the safe side because I had made myself unavailable, I think I would actually be grateful.

However, I'm astounded that anyone thinks I'd ever let my teenager be put in a situation where the owner couldn't or didn't want to be contacted if there was a problem! She will be able to turn down unsuitable/unreasonable jobs! Something she wouldn't be able to do if she worked on a "local" (not local) yard incidentally.

that is not always possible. The owner may be in a meeting, tied up at work it may not be possible for them to be consulted that is why they are "employing" a freelance. Sometimes it is simply impossible due to the owner's work commitments.

I'm not sure owner's would be happy to pay for vet visits (at the price they are) because a freelancer lacked the experience to recognise the problem as being something that could wait or something that was an emergency.

I appreciate your concerns for your daughter but I think you are seeing this from the POV as a non horse owner (I realise your daughter has ponies) and many of us are seeing it (based on our past experience) as to what can go wrong both for the horse and your daughter's safety.

 

[[154267]]

I appreciate your concerns for your daughter but I think you are seeing this from the POV as a non horse owner (I realise your daughter has ponies) and many of us are seeing it (based on our past experience) as to what can go wrong both for the horse and your daughter's safety.

Well as a horse owner I'm actually seeing it from the point of view of what I will need to arrange for when we go away for two weeks next year. And I know for fact that in this area I won't be finding a freelance groom with years of experience offering to take care of our horses, but perhaps I'll find a teenager who wants to earn a bit of pocket money and is reliable enough to contact me/ get other help if (god forbid) any trouble arises.

 

[ihatework]

Well as a horse owner I'm actually seeing it from the point of view of what I will need to arrange for when we go away for two weeks next year. And I know for fact that in this area I won't be finding a freelance groom with years of experience offering to take care of our horses, but perhaps I'll find a teenager who wants to earn a bit of pocket money and is reliable enough to contact me/ get other help if (god forbid) any trouble arises.

And 99.9% of the time, throwing some food at them, a pat and visual check, skipping some poo is all that is needed and well within the capabilities of a teenager. I get it.

And I appreciate some of us are catastrophising a bit. But if I’m away with work/holiday/whatever - I may not be immediately contactable. I need to be confident that whoever is in charge has enough real world horse experience to make the right call if things go tits up. It’s what it’s worth to me, for peace of mind.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Horse care service meant, to me, caring for horses directly. I wouldn't hire an under-18 to do that, due to the liabilities issue.

Holiday cover being an option meant, to me, that owner would not be around. I wouldn't hire an under-18 to do that due to the liability and my peace of mind.

Talking about the risk of someone's horse injuring itself or colicking and the owner blaming her meant, to me, that she'd been the only one there to blame. I wouldn't put an under 18 in that position.

I would pay an under-18 to poo pick and do non-horse facing chores, when supervised by their parent, as I said above. I'd pay £10 per hour, exactly as @ihatework

The thing is though, that paying someone to do half a job is fine for me as a friend and neighbor, doing a bit of favour so their children can earn some pocket money. I can afford that, and it's nice to see young people getting their hands dirty and mucking in with the chores.

But it's not a financially sensible way of managing things, and if I could only afford one, it would be one of my full service freelancers who I pay between £15 and £23 per hour depending on level of horse care. They are over 18, able to manage sole charge, fully insured, have their own transport (I have been let down too many times with 'can't get a lift') and can even ride or lunge if I need them to.

That is why it makes sense, to me, that she joins a yard where there are more than one workers, and lots of jobs.

If she was the daughter of a friend or neighbour of mine, she could work here happily with my other freelancers picking up the horse care elements. Perhaps you can find someone else who has a similar set up to me.

 

[[154267]]

And 99.9% of the time, throwing some food at them, a pat and visual check, skipping some poo is all that is needed and well within the capabilities of a teenager. I get it.

And I appreciate some of us are catastrophising a bit. But if I’m away with work/holiday/whatever - I may not be immediately contactable. I need to be confident that whoever is in charge has enough real world horse experience to make the right call if things go tits up. It’s what it’s worth to me, for peace of mind.

It would be to me too, and if there were people here offering that I'd employ someone like that, but to my knowledge there just aren't or availability is extremely limited (when I've tried to find someone). If I can't find them I figure others can't either, something that was borne out when I asked around. Experienced horse people need to move away from here to get decent training/work.

 

[[154267]]

That is why it makes sense, to me, that she joins a yard where there are more than one workers, and lots of jobs.

Yes but with 140 miles a day driving to make that happen, it just can't work. Plus all the safeguarding concerns I would have, having seen first hand how said yards operate. She could very likely be left in sole charge of 40 horses plus volunteering children.

(Feels like we're in different worlds)

 

[teapot]

(Insurance doesn't seem to stop the yards "near" us from employing much younger kids than she is, another reason why (distance aside) I'd rather she was in control of what she does/doesn't do!)

You’re assuming they give a monkeys about the legalities of it all. Many yards don’t, and continue to survive by relying on keen teens to do the work employed staff should be doing. They get away with it time and again, until something goes wrong.

You’re absolutely right to suggest being in control of what your daughter does. Has she considered an apprenticeship? Even some of the pros across all disciplines advertise them, and one may even be local

 

[[154267]]

You’re assuming they give a monkeys about the legalities of it all. Many yards don’t, and continue to survive by relying on keen teens to do the work paid staff should be doing. They get away with it time and again, until something goes wrong.

You’re absolutely right to suggest being in control of what your daughter does. Has she considered an apprenticeship? Even some of the pros across all disciplines advertise them, and one may even be local

She definitely would if something like that came up! Again I do fear geography will be the problem, but I am sure in a year or two she'll be ready to move away for a bit. And that suggestion has sparked off some potential ideas, so thanks for that. My son went to stay with family down south for a few weeks to do work experience in a zoo and he came back a totally different lad

 

[paddy555]

moving on from Teapots idea of a pvt yard apprenticeship have you considered more formal training such as this

I appreciate this one is in the SW but no doubt there are similar around the country. It is for youngsters, your daughter would learn a lot and come out in a position to pursue work in the horse world in several areas. (not necessarily this particular course but the basic idea)

Diploma in Equine Management - Duchy College

This Level 3 course is perfect for anyone wishing to develop equine specific technical and professional skills, supporting successful employment in industry

duchy.ac.uk

 

[[154267]]

moving on from Teapots idea of a pvt yard apprenticeship have you considered more formal training such as this

I appreciate this one is in the SW but no doubt there are similar around the country. It is for youngsters, your daughter would learn a lot and come out in a position to pursue work in the horse world in several areas. (not necessarily this particular course but the basic idea)

Diploma in Equine Management - Duchy College

This Level 3 course is perfect for anyone wishing to develop equine specific technical and professional skills, supporting successful employment in industry

duchy.ac.uk

Yes we've talked about these kinds of things a lot for when she feels ready to stay away from home.

 

[TheMule]

There are distance learning options in animal care too, if she doesn’t feel ready to move away to study

 

[honetpot]

I think beggars can't always be choosers, and she can provide great references. I am going to find out about insurance. But thanks for your input

British Grooms association | britishgrooms.org.uk

The BGA is the professional body for people who work with horses. It is a social enterprise and is non profit making. We welcome all grooms who work in the UK and British grooms who work abroad.

britishgrooms.org.uk

I employ a freelance, she as been with me for nearly ten years, but I have had two others.

I think the main hurdles are transport and reliability, and being realistic about what you can do, because most people want morning and evening, and unless you do dog walking and kennel trips there is not a lot in between. Other animals skills that a normal dog walker do not do are also a plus, like sheep and cattle.
TBH I would get her job in something like a kennels because it will be regular hours, and although not horse related gives her skills, and the people who employ you are should be business like.

Be warned people can treat you like dirt and if you are going to a private yard the young are a perfect scape goat, and people cancel at the last minute and then not want to pay. And people are just odd and often what they say does not correspond to what they really mean, so have some sort of contract and information sheet they sign.
I keep my help for a long time because I mine at home, so I can be flexible.

Charge properly and perhaps get them to pay on the day by card, because the excuse will be they have no cash, or send them a Paypal invoice so there is a data trail.
My daughter started her business using Paypal because it helped with the book keeping and payments.

I had a seventeen year old delivering hay last weekend, its own small business and he sell and delivers for other people. My tip for him was check the money before you unload it, he didn't want to do that. Never be coy about money.

 

[[154267]]

Yay, insurance from 16. Thank you so much for posting that link!

 

[[154267]]

A charming summary, thanks for enlightening "this woman". The OP asks if people use a service "like this" and asks for pricing guidance/opinions. It should go without saying that a parent would not allow their teenage daughter to go out to random places on their own with strangers' horses, but each to their own. I can't help your initial and continued misunderstanding of the question

 

[sarcasm_queen]

Deleted, phone doing weird layout things

 

[paddy555]

A charming summary, thanks for enlightening "this woman". The OP asks if people use a service "like this" and asks for pricing guidance/opinions. It should go without saying that a parent would not allow their teenage daughter to go out to random places on their own with strangers' horses, but each to their own. I can't help your initial and continued misunderstanding of the question

sorry but it didn't to me. Never occured to me. I assumed if a 16/17 yo was going out to work they would go alone. I always did and so have all the other kids I have seen/known. They would probably cycle there as I did.

 

[ihatework]

sorry but it didn't to me. Never occured to me. I assumed if a 16/17 yo was going out to work they would go alone. I always did and so have all the other kids I have seen/known. They would probably cycle there as I did.

Same here. I was pretty much self sufficient aged 16/17 (that might not have been such a good thing from my parenting perspective). I look back at some of what I did and am a bit There was a lot of potential for things to go wrong, despite me being a very proficient teenager.

 

[Clodagh]

I agree it didn’t occur to me that a parent would be there. And I was still ok with it. I was causing chaos at the local riding school way before 17.

 

[sport horse]

As I read it your daughter is under 18? If so she is required by law to be in some form of education. Maybe she should go to college. Yes it will involve her going away from home as it seems you live a long way from anywhere but then I guess that many of the college students will also be living at college so there would be a good social life?

I am sorry but it is not safe for your daughter to be taking responsibilty for other peoples animals without supervision especially in this day and age of people suing for everything. Please think again.

 

[paddy555]

As I read it your daughter is under 18? If so she is required by law to be in some form of education. Maybe she should go to college. Yes it will involve her going away from home as it seems you live a long way from anywhere but then I guess that many of the college students will also be living at college so there would be a good social life?

I am sorry but it is not safe for your daughter to be taking responsibilty for other peoples animals without supervision especially in this day and age of people suing for everything. Please think again.

I think, if I have read it correctly, this person is in Scotland where the school leaving age appears to be 16

 

[Gloi]

sorry but it didn't to me. Never occured to me. I assumed if a 16/17 yo was going out to work they would go alone. I always did and so have all the other kids I have seen/known. They would probably cycle there as I did.

I spent the summer as a ride leader at a pony trekking centre , 60 miles from home, , living in a caravan with the other ride leaders when I was 16. Took my pony with me too. Great experience between o levels and college.

 

[maya2008]

Horse related work is usually minimum wage - freelancers charge more to cover distance and insurance.

Experience comes from being around multiples of horses and thus being exposed to all the things. If your daughter wants to do this as a career rather than just a bit of pocket money, the more BHS stages the better. Preferably through a riding school or similar establishment where she can gain that experience while having her exams paid for. BHS stages provide the structure to widen knowledge through reading and exams. It also gives potential clients confidence.

 

[[154267]]

Goodness me, it's amazing anyone survived given all the earlier comments. So now I'm a helicopter parent, whatever. I am not going to waste a single second more of my life attempting to explain the realities of life in a remote rural area with long distances, unsafe roads, extremely limited public transport, limited mobile signal and few educational opportunities. Different world indeed!

I won't be replying again but thanks for the helpful input.

 

[Gloi]

Goodness me, it's amazing anyone survived given all the earlier comments. So now I'm a helicopter parent, whatever. I am not going to waste a single second more of my life attempting to explain the realities of life in a remote rural area with long distances, unsafe roads, extremely limited public transport, limited mobile signal and few educational opportunities. Different world indeed!

I won't be replying again but thanks for the helpful input.

What about other animals around you. Can she get work with cattle or sheep?

 

[I'm Dun]

Honestly, if a teenager offered to do poo picking I would delightedly throw £10ph at them and spend my time riding instead, or would have. I dont have horses now. But I know lots of people who would snap your hand off for poo picking type jobs for a sensible rate.