natural horsemanship

I think some people tend to get a bit defensive on this forum because of all the parelli bashing that goes on.

Its a shame cos we are all entitled to our opinions and surely no one has the right to tell someone else what they should and shouldn't do. ( unless you are a parent or teacher
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Or be downright rude and bordering on liable as some posts are.

Such as shame.

I'm all for debate but lets carry on like adults and not like petulant children
 
I am not a HUGE fan of it, but I have certainly found it useful with Baron.

My instructor told me about the 'behind the scenes' with regard to the Monty Roberts demos, but she also agreed that some parts are useful.

I read quite a few different books and took bits a pieces from different ones to try and help me deal with B's napping. Between them they certainly helped me to have a deeper understanding as to the reasons behind the napping, and by doing some of the exercises and taking a different approach to the napping has certainly improved it and helped me deal with it better.

Admitidley I had tried every other option before trying NH, and I do wish I had tried NH first now.

I do think some things are a bit pointless but I am now more inclined to try a NH method before any other, especially with problem horses. Or at least incorporate some NH into sorting the problem. I also think it can be especiallly useful with youngsters to help bond with them and start educating them early on without 'working' them so to speak.
 
I am notsaying that no NH people rip off only that they are not the only ones. There are many approaches to horse care/management and many older horse people use probably use some of the techniques without even being aware of doing it.There are good and bad practitioners in NH/classical/BHS and bad practitioners in all as well. I just can't understand why NH is the only one critisied =
 
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I'm all for debate but lets carry on like adults and not like petulant children

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Who are you liabling, by calling them 'petulant children'.
I am uphauled.
S
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No idea...as I said..I'm not entirely sure what the term really means, simply that the term's use has been rising and that I'd be interested to know what a non-natural horsemanhip way was.

However as you are so sure you aren't one you may be more able to shed light on this matter!?

Sqip

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the difference is......

i dont write books/flog DVD's/tell the world THIS is the way to treat horses/ponies....


i was "taught" by 2 very "old fashioned" nags-women..and a brilliant "man of the road"......

THEY are the real horse people..or i should say were....

TBH PP/LP/MH/KM wouldnt have been in the same room as the trio i knew back in the 60's/70's....

NH???? as it is marketed these days....total bollox.
 
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I'm all for debate but lets carry on like adults and not like petulant children

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I absoultely agree with this. In fact I normally avoid the parelli debates because of this reason but this one seemed to be starting off in such a mature manner, I thought I would throw my 2penniswoth in.

appears to be degenerating now so I think I will bow out quickly
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I still think you misunderstood/misread Pirani's post, she was not getting at you at all!!! Please re-read the post where you felt she was having a go or you will leave this thread misjudging her a little I feel and that does not seem fair.

Sqip
 
The BHS do all those things...the DVD's, books, tell them that this is how it is done, infact they have a monopoly on qualifications etc...does that mean they are NH?

Sqip
 
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No idea! I'm pretty sure that it has risen in its use in the past decade.

I do find it a bit odd though and would be interested in what Non-natural horsemanship was?

Not sure it is that useful a term myself.

Sqip

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soooo.....would i, god forbid, be discribed as NH because i can load a pony that hasnt been loaded ever..in less than 5 minutes???

i can halter and lead a previously "wild" pony in less than 24 hrs??

have a saddle and bridle on a previously nervous 3 yr old??

i truely HOPE not................

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I think at lot of people on this forum could do that -

but a lot ( including me) wouldn't want to do it as fast!

Personally I like to take a bit of time rather than the wham bam approach
 
OK shilsdair perhaps I didn't put that bit bout J Whitaker very well
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He has my utmost admiration both as a horseman and rider and I think that the 2 are interconnected. I don't think that it is an accident though that allhis horses will be beautifully mannered on the ground.
 
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OK shilsdair perhaps I didn't put that bit bout J Whitaker very well
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He has my utmost admiration both as a horseman and rider and I think that the 2 are interconnected. I don't think that it is an accident though that allhis horses will be beautifully mannered on the ground.

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Ah, I see.
What sort of training methods does he use, do you know?
S
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If I've misjudged her, that is ok. I'm always happy to be proved to be being over sensitive
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I swear I will leave the thread with fuzzy warm feelings towards Pirani
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well, you know what I mean, all is good etc
 
Pirani and Squippa - it is nice to discuss things in a civilised fashion.
So tell me - what is the definition of 'Natural Horsemanship'?
We may all be discussing entirely different things here, as it covers such a wide range of things (at least to me, it does).
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So tell me - what is the definition of 'Natural Horsemanship'?


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OI..I ASKED THAT.....

sort of....
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So tell me - what is the definition of 'Natural Horsemanship'?


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OI..I ASKED THAT.....

sort of....
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Nah, you asked the date of origin of the term.
I want to know what it encompasses. And what's the difference between Parelli, NH, IH, Classical Riding, British Horse Society, German Bereiter training, Spanish Riding School stuff etc etc....?
I ask too many questions
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S
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Well I have been asking that one myself S!

I'm guessing most people see it as training based on an understanding of how horses would behave naturally, so using techniques used in herds, working with an appreciation of how horses behave/think etc. I believe that Monty Roberts, Kelly Marks, Richard Maxwell and Pat Parelli all base their methods on this understanding.

I therefore guess that non-natural horsemanship works by not taking these in to account and not trying to understand rather to tell the horse to do something and then make it do it if it doesn't.

The reality is that most of us would like to think that we try to understand our horses and to work with them. I'm not actually sure that non-natural horsemanship actaully exists anymore except in the hands of a very few evil, cruel individuals none of whom are on here.

So yes JM07, I hate to say it but I think you might be a NH. But I'm sure you'll get over it
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Squip
 
I read a quote from a book written 2000 Years ago by the classical horse trainer Xenophon (probably spelt wrong - sorry shilasair). In it he mentions the very phase 'natural horsemanship!!
I'll have a look for it later on.
 
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That definition is, as you say, so loose as to encompass all BHS and classical/traditional methods. I suspect there isn't a horse-owner in the UK who doesn't train based on herd behaviour.
JM07 may well hunt you down and kill you now...get running
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S
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ok squipa, thank you for that..

seeing as i was "doing" this 35 yrs ago...am i therefore vintage" NH??

Until 5 yrs ago i'd truely never heard of that phrase.....
 
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I read a quote from a book written 2000 Years ago by the classical horse trainer Xenophon (probably spelt wrong - sorry shilasair). In it he mentions the very phase 'natural horsemanship!!
I'll have a look for it later on.

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Yes, I have read Xenophon and a few others...and can't spot the differences to be honest, between all the schools of traditional horsemanship.
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Well JM07 has been asking repeatedly if they were NH..I think secretly they knew all along and just needed a little support to come out of the closet.
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Sqip
 
One more thought that has just come to me reading this very interesting exchange (which has been so useful for NOT degenerating into a slagging match!): the other thing that bothers me about Parelli is the pseudo-science. I have a problem with anything that has no basis in reality, my biggest bugbear are horse psychics and aura readers. The horsenality stuff seems plucked out of thin air with no reference to any of the debates about classical conditioning, operant conditioning, behaviourism, etc. that mark debates on how to train other animals. For example, when I started getting into dog training I went to a three month course on operant conditioning that included information about canine physiology, psychology, behaviour, etc. and although there are different approaches to dog training their proponents can base their views on reasoned arguments. Horsenality sounds like mumbo-jumbo to me, dressed up in semi-scientific terms (left and right brain, introvert and extrovert) which are miss-applied and with no connection to any underlying theory about either the physiological structure of the brain in the horse or the learning process.
 
I believe that this is just an attempt to shown that what works for one does not for others. By explaining and enabling others to identify their horses characteristics you can then apply techniques which are more likely to work. Just stresses the point that horses are not machine and makes it rather good fun to find out which type your horse is (can't say that i have really been able to work out which my boy is however...maybe he is a subtype)

Sqip
 
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