NEED ADVICE! LOOSING HOPE!

[Lana.H05]

I think it's worth keeping in mind that this is a 14yr old child posting. They have come asking for advice and suggestions to help their horse. I dont think the repeated suggestion that they arent providing a good enough life for their horse and that they should sell is out of order.

No one had seen the horse, owner or set up. It certainly sounds like the owner is doing her best and has involved the vet.

There are plenty of horses that I would keep/treat/manage differently from how their owners post that they do and I know I'm not alone in having differing opinions. That's just how things are, but cast your mind back to 14yr old you and imagine a hoard of strangers telling you that you are selfish and not doing right by your horse.

He sounds like he was tricky and bought with issues. OP has taken their time, had vet/physio/chiro/saddle fitters involved. She has obviously considered various factors when choosing supplements and is looking into Vit E.

Just because Spanish are the current "special of the day" doesnt make anyone the authority on all horses and give them the right to be cruel to a child.

OP, I might have missed a few posts but do you have someone in real life who can help? Do you have a regular instructor or an experienced person on your yard? Someone who can see the horse in the flesh and how you are together to help is more valuable than faceless entities on the internet. Dont apologise for asking for help and wanting the best for your horse. Everyone is always learning and no one knows it all.

My mum Is very involved and has years of experience. We know lots of people through Pony Club but wondered if anyone had gone through the same thing. Thank you so much it difficult when no one has actually met him or knows me. XX really appreciate

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would check the ulcers have healed they can take months to clear up, maybe give the jumping a miss for now concentrate on getting him to trust you just with some basic schooling and see how he goes, if jumping is your passion and it's just not for him you might have to 're think your plans, you either sell him to a non jumping home or don't jump him yourself if you want to keep him.

You do sound very caring and responsible for 14 you very much remind me of my friends daughter I often ride with, she is very grown up for 14 I think having horses from a young age can do that.

 

[TPO]

Ah you see, I don't subscribe to the theory that one has to be nice to children just because they are young, especially not when they are likely to get (or cause) hurt. I wasn't being mean, just speaking from long years of experience in dealing with precisely this situation. Telling someone they are doing a great job when plainly it isn't working is not helpful at best and dishonest at worst.

You were being cruel. You've never clapped eyes on this horse, havent seen the girl ride and have no information beyond what was posted on here. Yet that is somehow enough for you to ascertain that the owner is not good enough to have a "special" Pre? As suggested she could get a "more common looking horse" like the other peasants who aren't special enough for the special breed ?

No one is saying to mollicoddle anyone but OP asked for advice and had stated numerous times that the horse isnt being sold. She has been given helpful advice and pointed in the direction of things to look into further. To keep kicking someone and telling a (child) stranger that they arent good enough to rider their horse is being nasty for the sake of it.

 

[Lana.H05]

TPO, I agree I think OP is doing amazingly well and is clearly a thoughtful and committed owner. Far more so than many adults! I sometimes think people would like to sell on a difficult horse but feel that persevering and sticking with the 'forever home' ideal is the right thing to do. Which is where my post was coming from in suggesting a different perspective on that. I think 'right' homes are more important than 'forever' homes. But subsequent posts have made it clear that she has come on a long way and also just how much the horse means to her. So I wish you all the luck, OP. Hope it all works out well for you both.

Thank you hopefully this is only temporary.

 

[Lana.H05]

Just a thought but as your horse was going well before lockdown and has since had reduced work he may have changed shape enough to need the saddle refitting.

He had saddle fitter last week and his work didn't need to change as we have areana and hacking ect... But yes we did check that Xx

 

[Lana.H05]

so the original comment in post 42 ie horses with PSSM are not allowed to be registered cannot be correct if you believe there is no way of PSSM2 testing.

From the various PSSM groups they certainly appear to be affected in the same way as other breeds.

I really don't know anything about it. He is registered with the British Association for the Purebred Spanish Horse.

 

[Cortez]

You were being cruel. You've never clapped eyes on this horse, havent seen the girl ride and have no information beyond what was posted on here. Yet that is somehow enough for you to ascertain that the owner is not good enough to have a "special" Pre? As suggested she could get a "more common looking horse" like the other peasants who aren't special enough for the special breed ?

No one is saying to mollicoddle anyone but OP asked for advice and had stated numerous times that the horse isnt being sold. She has been given helpful advice and pointed in the direction of things to look into further. To keep kicking someone and telling a (child) stranger that they arent good enough to rider their horse is being nasty for the sake of it.

I didn't say the OP should get a more common looking horse that was another poster. I didn't say the OP was not good enough, that was the OP herself. I didn't say the PRE is special, I did say they are different to the sort of horses most people in the UK are used to, which they are. You appear to have a problem with me, which is of course your prerogative; why don't you give yourself a treat and use the UI function.

 

[Cortez]

I was merely commenting on your original remark which appears to have no accuracy.

I didn't make the original remark, that was another poster.

 

[shortstuff99]

I was merely commenting on your original remark which appears to have no accuracy.

I'm not sure how it's not accurate I've had a look through the documents and to register they do have to have a genetic test for PSSM (whether they also include type 2 in that I'm not 100% sure but they might).

 

[Lana.H05]

I'm not sure how it's not accurate I've had a look through the documents and to register they do have to have a genetic test for PSSM (whether they also include type 2 in that I'm not 100% sure but they might).

There is nothing to say he has it. My mum told me she already looked into it a while back and she came to the conclusion that he didn't have it.

 

[Cortez]

The horse could then go onto his next home, take his problems with it and would be no better for it. Perhaps another home after that as he gets passed along as a problem horse.

Or perhaps in his next home he will get the training that he needs. Not every new home is for the worse, there are plenty of people who specialise in precisely this sort of problem.

 

[milliepops]

but all kinds of horses are different, I think that's the point, and they all need treating as individuals. My welsh is different to the other welsh on the yard, my ex racer is different to my friend's dobbin one, I don't think there is a "normal kind of UK horse" any more than all PREs are the same. I think by focussing on this too much the discussion can end up going off down a tangent that isn't helpful to the OP, who has had some useful suggestions of things to try which apply to all breeds. Checking the ulcers, checking the management, getting some help in person is relevant regardless of the breed of the horse and would apply if she had a QH, a TB, an arab or any other kind of horse that aficionados of the breed consider to be special or different to others.

 

[shortstuff99]

There is nothing to say he has it. My mum told me she already looked into it a while back and she came to the conclusion that he didn't have it.

Okay, my next steps would be to have a vet work up/ulcer check and if all clear to find a good instructor with experience of PREs to help you. If you need advice of an instructor for your area you can always ask on the GB PRE facebook page, or put your general area (don't be too specific for privacy!) And someone here might be able to recommend you one.

 

[DabDab]

Another thing to look at if you haven't already OP, is the possibility of SI pain. When I was younger I used to do some riding for a lady who mainly retrained ex racers, but also had a bit of a soft spot for acquiring PREs that had got into a bit of a pickle. From memory pretty much all of them had moderate to severe SI pain when they arrived with her and needed varying amounts of treatment and/or rehab for it. It seems to be an area that due to their conformation they tend to hold tension if they are stressed or not moving correctly, and they can develop deep muscle spasms if that's happening to them regularly over a sustained period of time.

Like pssm it is a condition that can fluctuate and present as worse in cold weather. And as a human who suffers occasionally from SI pain it can put you in sudden agony that makes any kind of athletic endeavour incredibly painful.

 

[Lana.H05]

Or perhaps in his next home he will get the training that he needs. Not every new home is for the worse, there are plenty of people who specialise in precisely this sort of problem.

I live in the New Forest. There isn't many people with Spanish Horses. But if things don't improve I will look into it more.

 

[Sail_away]

Well done asking for advice, OP, and well done for taking it so well, even from the rather blunt posters on here. You’re open to helping your horse so you’re already on the right track.
I’ve not had a horse with ulcers luckily, so all this advice is general, they may well have come back which would explain some of his behaviour. How do you manage him? Does he have access to forage 24/7, does he get a bit of chaff 20 minutes or so before you ride? How much turnout does he get, if it’s not 24/7 can you increase it? Provided there is enough grass of course. Is there anything you can do to reduce his stress? Bearing in mind these things won’t cure ulcers but they will help prevent them from returning.
With the jumping, it does sound like he’s just not confident. Rushing and refusing is very common in forward, nervous horses. My one started off like that, I bought him to jump and event, but had no idea what he was like out competing. The only showjumping he’d ever done was in the couple months before when I loaned him. Silly idea on paper, we took it very slow, had about a year of hiring arenas before we could compete and now you’d never know. At some point a switch went in his head, and as soon as he found himself in a jump arena he knew exactly what his job was. What I’m saying really is that the nervous types need to know their job inside out before you try anything more difficult, so in your case it may well be a year of jumping very small show jumps once a week until he can do it in his sleep. And gradually move on, and every time you step up a level you make sure he is 200% confident with it before you move on.
Of course a really good instructor would be great, try shopping around and getting a few different ones in before you stick with one. Good luck, it’s not impossible by any means. I know a PRE gelding ridden by a fairly novice teenager, he actually seems to goes nicer for her than her own (English) horse.

 

[Cortez]

but all kinds of horses are different, I think that's the point, and they all need treating as individuals. My welsh is different to the other welsh on the yard, my ex racer is different to my friend's dobbin one, I don't think there is a "normal kind of UK horse" any more than all PREs are the same. I think by focussing on this too much the discussion can end up going off down a tangent that isn't helpful to the OP, who has had some useful suggestions of things to try which apply to all breeds. Checking the ulcers, checking the management, getting some help in person is relevant regardless of the breed of the horse and would apply if she had a QH, a TB, an arab or any other kind of horse that aficionados of the breed consider to be special or different to others.

Of course horses are different and uniquely themselves, but there is a disproportionately large number of Spanish horses that end up with severe problems here that just don't occur in Spain (yes, of course there are problem horses in Spain too). Milliepops, I believe you have had experience of riding a rather messed up PRE, is that right?

 

[Lana.H05]

Okay, my next steps would be to have a vet work up/ulcer check and if all clear to find a good instructor with experience of PREs to help you. If you need advice of an instructor for your area you can always ask on the GB PRE facebook page, or put your general area (don't be too specific for privacy!) And someone here might be able to recommend you one.

Pefect thank you. Hes back on treatment from this morning and i should notice a difference with a couple of weeks.

 

[Cortez]

I live in the New Forest. There isn't many people with Spanish Horses. But if things don't improve I will look into it more.

You sound like a good kid, well done for trying to help. If you like I can recommend some people.

 

[paddy555]

I didn't make the original remark, that was another poster.

post 42 appears to have been written by you. That is the one I have been commenting on.

 

[Lana.H05]

Well done asking for advice, OP, and well done for taking it so well, even from the rather blunt posters on here. You’re open to helping your horse so you’re already on the right track.
I’ve not had a horse with ulcers luckily, so all this advice is general, they may well have come back which would explain some of his behaviour. How do you manage him? Does he have access to forage 24/7, does he get a bit of chaff 20 minutes or so before you ride? How much turnout does he get, if it’s not 24/7 can you increase it? Provided there is enough grass of course. Is there anything you can do to reduce his stress? Bearing in mind these things won’t cure ulcers but they will help prevent them from returning.
With the jumping, it does sound like he’s just not confident. Rushing and refusing is very common in forward, nervous horses. My one started off like that, I bought him to jump and event, but had no idea what he was like out competing. The only showjumping he’d ever done was in the couple months before when I loaned him. Silly idea on paper, we took it very slow, had about a year of hiring arenas before we could compete and now you’d never know. At some point a switch went in his head, and as soon as he found himself in a jump arena he knew exactly what his job was. What I’m saying really is that the nervous types need to know their job inside out before you try anything more difficult, so in your case it may well be a year of jumping very small show jumps once a week until he can do it in his sleep. And gradually move on, and every time you step up a level you make sure he is 200% confident with it before you move on.
Of course a really good instructor would be great, try shopping around and getting a few different ones in before you stick with one. Good luck, it’s not impossible by any means. I know a PRE gelding ridden by a fairly novice teenager, he actually seems to goes nicer for her than her own (English) horse.

I've never competed him. Just didn't see the point in pushing it. He jumps for pleasure at the moment any way as we do more excerisies than courses. He out 25/7 and ect. He is fed before riding and given Hay to line his stomach. He lives a very chilled life style which Is why I was surprised they were back.

 

[Cortez]

post 42 appears to have been written by you. That is the one I have been commenting on.

Oh for goodness sake; I was responding to another poster* (who actually knows more about it than I do, I had to look it up) who raised the rule.

*Shortstuff

 

[Lana.H05]

You sound like a good kid, well done for trying to help. If you like I can recommend some people.

Thank you but I have a really good instructor who knows me well and adors Kraka. Although he is Spanish and has the typical movement he doesn't seem to need specifically training. He's quite adaptable and I can work him really well I just wanted advice on possibley things to help my current situation that is that I feel a bit stuck. At the end of the day if he has the muscles wear they need to be he will work how it's Comfortable. We have had a Pre Instructor and she didn't listen to me so after a couple of months I was no Longer benefitting from having her.

 

[milliepops]

Of course horses are different and uniquely themselves, but there is a disproportionately large number of Spanish horses that end up with severe problems here that just don't occur in Spain (yes, of course there are problem horses in Spain too). Milliepops, I believe you have had experience of riding a rather messed up PRE, is that right?

Yeah but I don't think he was messed up because he was a PRE, any more than my welsh is messed up because she's a sec D, they were just messed up by incorrect training/handling/management in general IMO.

There are messed up horses of all breeds, I would say there are probably more TBs and welshes that are not in the right homes simply because of the sheer numbers of them around, and both then also acquire reputations for being speshul breeds (though in general people don't get told to look for someone experienced with the breed, any old good trainer will do). I just don't think it is particularly helpful to focus on the breed as a kind of "it'll never work" backstop because with the right approach and good help there is every chance that the OP can resolve this horse's issues just the same as any other horse.

 

[DabDab]

Of course horses are different and uniquely themselves, but there is a disproportionately large number of Spanish horses that end up with severe problems here that just don't occur in Spain (yes, of course there are problem horses in Spain too). Milliepops, I believe you have had experience of riding a rather messed up PRE, is that right?

I think MP has had previously messed up mounts in a variety of breeds now

ETA: sorry, x posted with you MP

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Why couldn’t the horse walk or trot when first viewed? Have I missed what the vet said about this prepurchase ?

OP when my daughter was 12 I bought her a gelding whom she adored but was totally wrong for her...and despite my sensible head I kept him for 18 months during which he destroyed her confidence and emptied my bank balance. Whenever I mentioned selling him she would have a monumental tantrum....BUT when I did sell him on to a small adult and bought a more suitable and older horse for her she never looked back and was sad for as long as it took me to drive home from dropping him off.
It is a difficult and very mature thing to stand back and unemotionally examine the reality of a situation. What would you advise a friend in this situation do you think?

 

[milliepops]

I think MP has had previously messed up mounts in a variety of breeds now

ETA: sorry, x posted with you MP

I like the variety!

 

[Lana.H05]

Yeah but I don't think he was messed up because he was a PRE, any more than my welsh is messed up because she's a sec D, they were just messed up by incorrect training/handling/management in general IMO.

There are messed up horses of all breeds, I would say there are probably more TBs and welshes that are not in the right homes simply because of the sheer numbers of them around, and both then also acquire reputations for being speshul breeds (though in general people don't get told to look for someone experienced with the breed, any old good trainer will do). I just don't think it is particularly helpful to focus on the breed as a kind of "it'll never work" backstop because with the right approach and good help there is every chance that the OP can resolve this horse's issues just the same as any other horse.

Totally agree. He was originally bred for Polo then sold to a guy who had him 5 years. He then started Bolting and was then exchanged to a dealer who sold to a dealer who had him for 6 weeks and then was sold to me. He's not first I've had come to me messed up and I've had a crazy little Welsh that just needed love and some boundaries Xx thank you

 

[Lana.H05]

Why couldn’t the horse walk or trot when first viewed? Have I missed what the vet said about this prepurchase ?

OP when my daughter was 12 I bought her a gelding whom she adored but was totally wrong for her...and despite my sensible head I kept him for 18 months during which he destroyed her confidence and emptied my bank balance. Whenever I mentioned selling him she would have a monumental tantrum....BUT when I did sell him on to a small adult and bought a more suitable and older horse for her she never looked back and was sad for as long as it took me to drive home from dropping him off.
It is a difficult and very mature thing to stand back and unemotionally examine the reality of a situation. What would you advise a friend in this situation do you think?

Hello because he was only sold 6 weeks previous to us buying him we were given the vet report. It was risky but also saved money and expenses. Selling him still really isnt an option. Ide recommend a friend to maybe get a professional to get on board and see what they think are the problem areas. We had this done but I will think about having them back out again.

 

[Cortez]

Totally agree. He was originally bred for Polo then sold to a guy who had him 5 years. He then started Bolting and was then exchanged to a dealer who sold to a dealer who had him for 6 weeks and then was sold to me. He's not first I've had come to me messed up and I've had a crazy little Welsh that just needed love and some boundaries Xx thank you

Bred for polo? I've never heard of a PRE being used for polo - where was he bred?