Never thought I’d be writing this :(

[LadyGascoyne]

I am so sorry to hear about the rearing- it really is a very scary thing so please don’t feel bad for deciding not to get on again.

It would be good to have some more details about him. There is a real wealth of experience on the forum and a cue in the wider context might flag something to someone that you may not have thought of immediately.

What breed, height and age is he?

What kind of work did he do in his previous home?

Have you changed what he is fed or how much turnout he gets?

Have you changed his tack at all? And when you tried him, was he in this tack?

When he was vetted, did you use your own vet or the sellers vet?

Are you significantly different as a rider to his previous rider? Are you much lighter or heavier, was he previously ridden by a child or an adult etc?

Do you know how long he was in his previous home?

OP, I have read some of your older threads now so can fill in some of the blanks here.

He’s OP’s first horse and is a 16.2hh, 16 year old from Ireland, and looks either to be a Thoroughbred or to have a lot of blood in him.

He seems to be suffering an allergy of some kind, possibly to feed and was on feed containing alfalfa, with a recent change of feed- within the last two weeks, I think. He is underweight.

I don’t think you mentioned what he had done in Ireland, OP, only that he would be slowing down?

OP has bought the same saddle but I’m not sure about bit and bridle. It doesn’t seem as though you tried him OP? I think you bought unseen?

It reads as though he wasn’t vetted in Ireland but you had a general check done when he arrived here.

OP is the same sort of measurements as his previous rider but possibly less experienced.

I couldn’t tell whether it was a dealer in Ireland, a short term home or someone who had had him for a while.

 

[Antw23uk]

Oh dear! Arent you the lady that made a post about losing your confidence bringing a horse in from the field or something? You are way out of your depth here and you need to find this horse a suitable home, you are scaring him, he is not suitable for you. I would likely air on the side of the previous owner who says he's never done anything like this before!

Sorry to sound harsh but this kind of post is nothing new sadly and keeps happening time and again and its always the previous owner that's blamed and the poor horse left out in the proverbial cold! This is such a horrible situation and im sorry again if my post sounds harsh. Agree with others you should not be getting on him again, he needs to go back or find a suitable home that understands him. Good luck.

 

[Keira 8888]

Thank you so much everyone for all your replies - this forum is absolutely incredible, I actually would be lost without you all now. My husband is livid and I can’t talk to him.

So I got in touch with the past owner this afternoon and at first she was very defensive. Said I must have “done” something to him as he had never acted like this before. I kept my messages very civil and just said - I’m so so confused. Please can you give me the details of his past owner. And this request was repeatedly ignored. I then remembered that my vet had found two microchips when he first assessed Prince and he had urged me to contact the authorities to make sure that Prince had a genuine passport. Stupidly I didn’t do this as I was already head over heels for him and thought - who cares ?‍ I love him and why does it matter if he has two microchips??! Well.... when I mentioned that to the past owner her whole demeanor changed - she went back to being lovely and concerned - offered a full refund and said she had a lorry in England right now to pick him up. I says thanks but no thanks - give me the full refund and then I will allow you to collect him. I have eight (very horsey) witnesses ready to give a written statement about his rearing and dangerous behaviour. She then said her boss wanted video proof of his bad behaviour and I said no one is willing to get back on him!! It’s not fair on him!!! Or us!!
So I just called her and she says she will refund me the full money but wants a photo of the microchip on the passport.

My vet def made a note of the “second” microchip number but I can’t find it on the passport, it must be in his notes at the vet.

my husband doesn’t trust them (obviously!) and doesn’t understand why they would want a pic of the original passport if they only applied for it on 8th June. Literally days after I bought him.

We are inexperienced and terrified that they are going to somehow back out of the refund, to be honest all I care about is Prince. They say they are going to “bring him home” to Ireland so he doesn’t get PTS but the weird thing is, in the original advert, they said he had done hunting, eventing, and been at a riding school - but when I pushed to know more details about his past owner they said they had bought him at a dealer auction 2 months ago because they felt sorry for him because he was so thin!!

arghhhh!!!!
I feel so upset and angry! This poor poor horse! And here I am giving up on him, it’s like a nightmare

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

It is very obvious that some posters really don't have a clue how much effect some feeds can have on some horses! How long is it, OP, since you changed the feed.



ETA, sorry OP, we cross-posted. In order to remain safe it probably is best if you get your refund and return the horse because you never know what else the horse will react to but if he was mine, I would give him a month off the alfalfa before making any decisions.

 

[Antw23uk]

Thank you so much everyone for all your replies - this forum is absolutely incredible, I actually would be lost without you all now. My husband is livid and I can’t talk to him.

So I got in touch with the past owner this afternoon and at first she was very defensive. Said I must have “done” something to him as he had never acted like this before. I kept my messages very civil and just said - I’m so so confused. Please can you give me the details of his past owner. And this request was repeatedly ignored. I then remembered that my vet had found two microchips when he first assessed Prince and he had urged me to contact the authorities to make sure that Prince had a genuine passport. Stupidly I didn’t do this as I was already head over heels for him and thought - who cares ?‍ I love him and why does it matter if he has two microchips??! Well.... when I mentioned that to the past owner her whole demeanor changed - she went back to being lovely and concerned - offered a full refund and said she had a lorry in England right now to pick him up. I says thanks but no thanks - give me the full refund and then I will allow you to collect him. I have eight (very horsey) witnesses ready to give a written statement about his rearing and dangerous behaviour. She then said her boss wanted video proof of his bad behaviour and I said no one is willing to get back on him!! It’s not fair on him!!! Or us!!
So I just called her and she says she will refund me the full money but wants a photo of the microchip on the passport.

My vet def made a note of the “second” microchip number but I can’t find it on the passport, it must be in his notes at the vet.

my husband doesn’t trust them (obviously!) and doesn’t understand why they would want a pic of the original passport if they only applied for it on 8th June. Literally days after I bought him.

We are inexperienced and terrified that they are going to somehow back out of the refund, to be honest all I care about is Prince. They say they are going to “bring him home” to Ireland so he doesn’t get PTS but the weird thing is, in the original advert, they said he had done hunting, eventing, and been at a riding school - but when I pushed to know more details about his past owner they said they had bought him at a dealer auction 2 months ago because they felt sorry for him because he was so thin!!

arghhhh!!!!
I feel so upset and angry! This poor poor horse! And here I am giving up on him, it’s like a nightmare

You need to take the refund and have them pick him up ASAP. They must be so upset and worried, I know i would be if i had sold a horse to this situation.

 

[splashgirl45]

whatever it was ....buying unseen when you are not experienced is not a good idea and a 16.2 tb type is not a first horse IMO especially if you have not tried it at its home. this happens so often, i wish people who are buying their first horse would read these threads and learn to be very careful....i am now an oldie and have been owned horses for over 50 years. if i came into some money i would want to buy another but would always go and try it at least twice and would take my friend who is a trainer to confirm that i was a good fit.......

just read op's latest post and it sounds like she has been treated badly by the seller and something sounds very fishy..

 

[scats]

OP, has this rearing behaviour just started? I’m a bit confused about timelines. How long have you had him and when did the rearing start?

 

[Red-1]

Thank you so much everyone for all your replies - this forum is absolutely incredible, I actually would be lost without you all now. My husband is livid and I can’t talk to him.

So I got in touch with the past owner this afternoon and at first she was very defensive. Said I must have “done” something to him as he had never acted like this before. I kept my messages very civil and just said - I’m so so confused. Please can you give me the details of his past owner. And this request was repeatedly ignored. I then remembered that my vet had found two microchips when he first assessed Prince and he had urged me to contact the authorities to make sure that Prince had a genuine passport. Stupidly I didn’t do this as I was already head over heels for him and thought - who cares ?‍ I love him and why does it matter if he has two microchips??! Well.... when I mentioned that to the past owner her whole demeanor changed - she went back to being lovely and concerned - offered a full refund and said she had a lorry in England right now to pick him up. I says thanks but no thanks - give me the full refund and then I will allow you to collect him. I have eight (very horsey) witnesses ready to give a written statement about his rearing and dangerous behaviour. She then said her boss wanted video proof of his bad behaviour and I said no one is willing to get back on him!! It’s not fair on him!!! Or us!!
So I just called her and she says she will refund me the full money but wants a photo of the microchip on the passport.

My vet def made a note of the “second” microchip number but I can’t find it on the passport, it must be in his notes at the vet.

my husband doesn’t trust them (obviously!) and doesn’t understand why they would want a pic of the original passport if they only applied for it on 8th June. Literally days after I bought him.

We are inexperienced and terrified that they are going to somehow back out of the refund, to be honest all I care about is Prince. They say they are going to “bring him home” to Ireland so he doesn’t get PTS but the weird thing is, in the original advert, they said he had done hunting, eventing, and been at a riding school - but when I pushed to know more details about his past owner they said they had bought him at a dealer auction 2 months ago because they felt sorry for him because he was so thin!!

arghhhh!!!!
I feel so upset and angry! This poor poor horse! And here I am giving up on him, it’s like a nightmare

You are not giving up on him, he is simply not the horse that was described to you.

If he is from a dealer, you do have rights. I am not sure how easy they are to enforce when the dealer is in Ireland.

If she is saying she will refund then I would allow the refund. Heck, I would even allow a 25% reduction if it means you get money back and the horse picked up promptly! If the vet noted 2 different microchip numbers then yes, there should be a record. If not, the microchip number is still there, in his neck, so you could get it read again. I would ask on a local FB page for someone with a reader.

The horse was not as described. They admit they told a wrong tale. I wold keep records and do everything in writing, on email or other electronic messaging that can be kept.

 

[ihatework]

It’s the poor horse caught up in the middle of all this.

You have got 2 options as far as I see it - work with the old owners for the refund and return. Sounds like they have realised they have been caught out.

Keep the horse, work him up with the vets, treat him and keep him.

Reading between the lines this poor horse has a dodgy history.
Please next time be sensible. Buy a horse in this country that has a verified history, assessed by an instructor as suitable for a novice and properly vetted.

 

[Red-1]

You need to take the refund and have them pick him up ASAP. They must be so upset and worried, I know i would be if i had sold a horse to this situation.

I think they will be upset and worried too, but not because they are worried about the horse. More that the horse has 2 microchips, a new replacement passport and they have been caught out telling one tale of history of the horse when it turns out they know nothing about his history and have only known him for 2 months. Yes, they are likely worried, because they have been caught out!

I agree OP has not made best decisions when buying, but she has done right by the horse since owning. Got help. Got the vet when the horse had hives.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Get the refund and put him on the lorry asap.

You're not giving up on him, he's not in the right home with you.

Next time, don't buy unseen, try the horse at least twice, get it vetted and take some one experienced with you. Also up your budget! £2500 won't get you a sound first horse.

OR

Keep the horse, get a workup and find out where his pain is. Then be prepared to PTS.

 

[splashgirl45]

this poor horse was sent to the sales in poor condition, dealer bought him 2 months ago then ships him over to a novice owner!!!!!! what a shitty thing to do to the horse and the OP. there are some awful people in the horse world..its so sad....

 

[Keira 8888]

Oh dear! Arent you the lady that made a post about losing your confidence bringing a horse in from the field or something? You are way out of your depth here and you need to find this horse a suitable home, you are scaring him, he is not suitable for you. I would likely air on the side of the previous owner who says he's never done anything like this before!

Sorry to sound harsh but this kind of post is nothing new sadly and keeps happening time and again and its always the previous owner that's blamed and the poor horse left out in the proverbial cold! This is such a horrible situation and im sorry again if my post sounds harsh. Agree with others you should not be getting on him again, he needs to go back or find a suitable home that understands him. Good luck.

I really appreciate your reply. I may lack in hands on experience but I have taken every step possible to involve professionals and take on expert advice. He is in full livery. I spent the first week or so just bonding with him in the field - exploring things together, never scaring him. I have never been rough with him. He has the best of everything. Inexperience may well be a weakness, but with the correct support (which I have had) it certainly hasn’t impacted Prince. He is a 16 yr old horse. He was meant to have been there and done it all. I would never have taken on a youngster. I honestly don’t think I could have done better as I have taken it slowly, thoughtfully and under instruction. I agree that he needs a more experienced home, but I promise you that I have never scared him x

 

[Bellaboo18]

this poor horse was sent to the sales in poor condition, dealer bought him 2 months ago then ships him over to a novice owner!!!!!! what a shitty thing to do to the horse and the OP. there are some awful people in the horse world..its so sad....

And the only thing that changes this chain of events is someone stepping up, finding the pain and doing the right thing by the horse which isn't the easy/cheap thing to do.

 

[misst]

You need to take the refund and have them pick him up ASAP. They must be so upset and worried, I know i would be if i had sold a horse to this situation.

That's a bit strong.
That seems unlikely given they have changed their story and the OP would seem to have been scammed. She may be inexperienced but the horse was on livery with an experienced YO and she appears to have done her utmost to care for him. The only thing she has done "wrong" is to trust someone and buy a horse unseen.
The worst thing is of course if the horse is returned the whole scenario will be repeated

 

[splashgirl45]

I really appreciate your reply. I may lack in hands on experience but I have taken every step possible to involve professionals and take on expert advice. He is in full livery. I spent the first week or so just bonding with him in the field - exploring things together, never scaring him. I have never been rough with him. He has the best of everything. Inexperience may well be a weakness, but with the correct support (which I have had) it certainly hasn’t impacted Prince. He is a 16 yr old horse. He was meant to have been there and done it all. I would never have taken on a youngster. I honestly don’t think I could have done better as I have taken it slowly, thoughtfully and under instruction. I agree that he needs a more experienced home, but I promise you that I have never scared him x

i appreciate that you have done everything possible but your mistake ( a big one) was buying unseen and believing everything the dealer said. you now know that the dealer told you a bunch of lies. i bet the dealer paid meat money for him and has made a nice profit... it is very likely that the horse has always had problems being ridden and that you have not caused it apart from not being confident.. i feel sorry for both you and the horse as neither of you deserve this, but you need to get your money back so the horse will have to go back to them unfortunately, and please be very careful next time you buy...try the horse a couple of times, take an experienced person with you and have the horse vetted by a vet the YOU choose and never use a vet suggested by the seller...

 

[splashgirl45]

That's a bit strong.
That seems unlikely given they have changed their story and the OP would seem to have been scammed. She may be inexperienced but the horse was on livery with an experienced YO and she appears to have done her utmost to care for him. The only thing she has done "wrong" is to trust someone and buy a horse unseen.
The worst thing is of course if the horse is returned the whole scenario will be repeated

thats the very sad thing, i wouldnt think the OP can afford to not send him back...i am sure if money was no object she would keep him and find something else to ride, but this is the real world and not many of us could afford to do that..

 

[Flame_]

Hi guys,

I have contacted the lady I bought him from and she said she was shocked and had never done this for her.

I specially said that I needed a sensible calm older horse who would happily hack alone and in the advert (and by what’s app) the seller confirmed that Prince was all of these things.

"S/he's never done that before....."

99 times out of 100 its BS. Keep any written evidence of having been missold a horse. Are they local? Tell them you need them to come and give you some assistance or you'll be looking at returning the horse as not fit for purpose.

Rearing is very dangerous, your fear is completely rational. This is not a "man up, kick on" problem. You need to find the cause and quickly rectify it or prioritise your safety and return or put down the horse. People who buy cheap problem horses from people keen to secure the horses' future by selling cheaply to an experienced home are more often than not just out to make money and keep themselves in repeat business by selling the horse on to another you. These horses do circuits around lying unethical dealers.

 

[stormox]

Thank you so much everyone for all your replies - this forum is absolutely incredible, I actually would be lost without you all now. My husband is livid and I can’t talk to him.

to Ireland so he doesn’t get PTS but the weird thing is, in the original advert, they said he had done hunting, eventing, and been at a riding school - but when I pushed to know more details about his past owner they said they had bought him at a dealer auction 2 months ago because they felt sorry for him because he was so thin!!

arghhhh!!!!
I feel so upset and angry! This poor poor horse! And here I am giving up on him, it’s like a nightmare

If you want you can pm me I am in Ireland and might be able to find something out.
However I dont understand about ' dealer auction' a couple of months ago- we started lockdown here in the middle of March, and all auctions etc were cancelled. And Ive never heard of a 'dealer auction'....

 

[misst]

i appreciate that you have done everything possible but your mistake ( a big one) was buying unseen and believing everything the dealer said. you now know that the dealer told you a bunch of lies. i bet the dealer paid meat money for him and has made a nice profit... it is very likely that the horse has always had problems being ridden and that you have not caused it apart from not being confident.. i feel sorry for both you and the horse as neither of you deserve this, but you need to get your money back so the horse will have to go back to them unfortunately, and please be very careful next time you buy...try the horse a couple of times, take an experienced person with you and have the horse vetted by a vet the YOU choose and never use a vet suggested by the seller...

This every time I'm afraid. Next time you will have learned from this and next time will be better if you follow the advice on here. Please ask someone you really trust to come with you and don't let anyone give you the "I have lots of other people interested" or any other sales talk.
What a horrible experience for you but sadly it is more common than you might think.
There are relatively inexpensive "first horses" out there but if you want a safe fun first horse for mum/daughter share then you may need to up your budget or wait until the winter.
Don't give up but no more buying unseen! It has been done by some of the very experienced people on here and even they are super careful and really know the pitfalls and one or two have been caught out over the years.

 

[SO1]

I agree sounds like the person who sold it was dishonest. If they have only had it two months and got it from an auction it would be impossible to verify it would be suitable for a novice. I expect what they hoped for was that the inexperienced owner would fall in love the horse and try and fix the issue or just keep it and retire it rather than send it back to them.

If she has a lorry in this country to bring him back immediately I expect she is bringing horses over on a regular basis he may end up getting passed on to one her contacts her to try and sell on.

 

[Keira 8888]

i appreciate that you have done everything possible but your mistake ( a big one) was buying unseen and believing everything the dealer said. you now know that the dealer told you a bunch of lies. i bet the dealer paid meat money for him and has made a nice profit... it is very likely that the horse has always had problems being ridden and that you have not caused it apart from not being confident.. i feel sorry for both you and the horse as neither of you deserve this, but you need to get your money back so the horse will have to go back to them unfortunately, and please be very careful next time you buy...try the horse a couple of times, take an experienced person with you and have the horse vetted by a vet the YOU choose and never use a vet suggested by the seller...

yes you are so right. I have learnt so much from this SO much, poor Prince. I am ashamed of myself

 

[milliepops]

yes you are so right. I have learnt so much from this SO much, poor Prince. I am ashamed of myself

There's no point in beating yourself up, what's done is done. I would echo what others have said, in your shoes i would accept the refund and chalk this one up to experience. You will be better prepared when you want to look for a new horse. In an ideal world it would be nice to try and fix him but realistically this could be a long and complex journey and he does not appear to be the right horse for you anyway. If you end up getting hurt you'll feel worse than you do now x

 

[splashgirl45]

dont beat yourself up, you havent done anything with the intent of misleading someone, you made a mistake and you have tried your best for the horse, hope you can soon get this sorted out...

 

[Keira 8888]

This every time I'm afraid. Next time you will have learned from this and next time will be better if you follow the advice on here. Please ask someone you really trust to come with you and don't let anyone give you the "I have lots of other people interested" or any other sales talk.
What a horrible experience for you but sadly it is more common than you might think.
There are relatively inexpensive "first horses" out there but if you want a safe fun first horse for mum/daughter share then you may need to up your budget or wait until the winter.
Don't give up but no more buying unseen! It has been done by some of the very experienced people on here and even they are super careful and really know the pitfalls and one or two have been caught out over the years.

Oh boy you are right - so right. I completely see this now. This poor horse - I wish I could throw money at the problem and “save” him. But I can’t. I have to put my daughter first. And live with the fact that really - quite honestly - I have failed this horse

 

[misst]

Don't be ashamed you have done nothing wrong except trust someone. If it hadn't happened to you it would have happened to another trusting person - and has probably happened a few times before with this horse.
He probably has multiple problems and you have not caused them.
Horse owning is a wonderful wonderful thing but it is also a moneypit and heartbreaking sometimes. So sorry this has been your introduction to owning x

 

[misst]

Oh boy you are right - so right. I completely see this now. This poor horse - I wish I could throw money at the problem and “save” him. But I can’t. I have to put my daughter first. And live with the fact that really - quite honestly - I have failed this horse

No the people who sold him failed him and you.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I'd be checking out both chips, to ensure the horse isnt a loss of use, or 'missing' (loaned and sold on, or stolen)

 

[MiniMilton]

I'm so sorry this has happened. I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone.

Hind sight is wonderful and all the rest, but I just have to say this, as so many are getting caught out buying from Ireland...
There are plenty of dodgy dealers in Ireland who specialise in buying unsafe or unsound horses and selling on to the UK at a massive profit.

UK buyers are buying cheap horses in Ireland thinking they are getting a bargain, but good horses are not cheap in Ireland.
There are lots of very reputable dealers in Ireland but their horses are not cheap.

OP if the horse is otherwise very nice to be around I would think it is something medical like Kissing Spines. I would use the double microchip situation to your advantage and try to get the seller to refund and collect. If the seller won't I would mention in a friendly manner that perhaps you should investigate the duplicate microchips with the Department of Agriculture to see can you get further info on his history. Hopefully put the sh1ts up the seller that they are about to be caught out on whatever dodgy situation they created.

 

[Flame_]

You can't buy a first horse based on what an advert says. Even truthful adverts omit all sorts. Approach horse buying with your strongest cynical head on, on a quest to find out what's wrong with it and whether it's something you can work with, before you part with your cash. There is a flaw in all of them but they're all equine saints in the ads!