Never thought I’d be writing this :(

Didn’t realise what a wealthy lot you all were, £2500 would take me a long time to save and I certainly couldn’t justify losing it. All these work ups being suggested cost, vet work ups possibly ending with a MRI could easily reach four figures and OP still has a horse that likely she can’t fix for her and her daughter to ride.
Don’t personally see an old TB in a wet Irish field being anything but a millstone round her neck and even the PTS option is going to cost £500,
OP send him back and get your money back, you may have had a lucky escape from a nasty injury
 
Not directed at OP but yes £2500 is a lot of money but honestly if you can't afford to lose it or to PTS on top of that I don't think it's responsible to buy a horse. Anything can happen on the first day of ownership.
 
Tbh I think everyone is now going round in circles.At the end of the day, what is done is done and I am sure the OP will learn from it as we have all had to learn from mistakes we have made.

Obviously the OP is very attached and as we all are....feel sorry for the horse.She has had the offer of a full refund and it is only the OP who knows if she is in a financial position to turn down a full refund whilst trying to investigate the 2 microchips or investigate what or if any pain related issues that the horse may have.There is only a limited time to return it.

Only the OP can decide if even when the horse is/isn’t treated she is comfortable putting herself or more importantly her daughter on board Or if she can afford another that would be suitable for them both as well as keeping this one.

Maybe a lesson to a lot of owners,to man up and let these horses go when/if they are unrideable,rather than passing them off to low life dealers to sell on,make a profit and put some trusting person in such a difficult position.

I think OP now needs to be left to work it out herself and decide which path to take.
 
OP I haven't read all of the replies. But if you do go down the medical route and find that he is unrideable but happy enough in the field. Contact the blood bank. He is the right height for it and they lead a good life.
 
paddy555 said:
you yourself said yesterday there is a need to get to the bottom of the hives situation and then reviewing again.
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I said that before the two chips and the dealer's reaction to the two chips was known. My opinion is now that the horse should be returned or PTS, it is a money pit and a heartbreaker situation. The chances of it ever being the mother daughter share it was supposed to be are lower than mine of winning the lottery. And I don't buy a ticket for the lottery.
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Chuffy99 said:
Didn’t realise what a wealthy lot you all were, £2500 would take me a long time to save and I certainly couldn’t justify losing it. All these work ups being suggested cost, vet work ups possibly ending with a MRI could easily reach four figures and OP still has a horse that likely she can’t fix for her and her daughter to ride.
Don’t personally see an old TB in a wet Irish field being anything but a millstone round her neck and even the PTS option is going to cost £500,
OP send him back and get your money back, you may have had a lucky escape from a nasty injury
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Not wealthy by any means but commited to the souls we have the privilege of buying. I could not live with my conscience of sending the poor lad back.
 
TPO said:
Not trying to talk anyone into anything. It wouldn't be advised for anyone, let alone a complete novice first time buyer, to buy a horse unseen from Ireland. As an aside the fact that there are so many older exracers available over here I cant understand any temptation at all to buy one unseen from Ireland.

However what is done is done. In my eyes when you take ownership of any animal you become responsible for them.

As pointed out several times the absolute basics haven't been covered regarding horses welfare (farrier/dentist/physio/saddle fitter). Horse has (painful?) hives and is tacked up/girthed and ridden. The horse arrived in poor condition so even if the saddle did fit perfectly 4wks ago it is unlikely to now given the change in condition/shape.

I appreciate the value of money and that the seller was dishonest. I cant imagine returning a horse to the fate we all know will happen...being sold on again after yet more upheaval. So back to my original point, when you buy any animal you assume full responsibility. The seller might or might not be telling their version of the truth but its buyer beware.

Any buyer can view, try and vet a horse and therefore protect themself somewhat and make informed decisions regarding the purchase. When buying unseen you are taking a punt and have to deal with the consequences; these are the consequences. I've bought unseen (long story) and a malnourished skeleton arrived, not for one second would he have been going back.

On a further tangent I find the full refund hard to believe. They are going to fully refund and pay for the transportation back to Ireland? The police are stretched as it is, I cant see them pursuing possibly dodgy dealers in Ireland?

I feel heart sorry for Prince. Even if the implausible plan of him living in a field in ireland were to happen IF there is something underlying then turning him away to rot in a field isnt necessarily a kindness either for an older TB.

Ugg, whole thing is a mess bowing out because I've already said that I think the very basics should be covered and a proper professional trainer involved. I just hope its resolved in Prince's best interests.
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Have you read my posts properly? I did cover the basics! And more! I had his vaccinations done, a dental check by the vet, a dental check by a dentist, a vetting by my uk vet. Comprehensive fly products. A saddle professionally fitted and then brought back to assess saddle fit with new half pad!!!! I have absolutely looked after him. I have scoured forums to find solutions to crab flies - even gone on to french sites to see what solutions they have to crab flies out there! I have spent whatever money and time was needed to look after Prince!
I paid for a professional trainer to get involved! I did everything I could! My YO is an extremely respected horseman with decades of experience.

Please read the full threads before you post such an ill informed post
 
ycbm said:
I said that before the two chips and the dealer's reaction to the two chips was known. My opinion is now that the horse should be returned or PTS, it is a money pit and a heartbreaker situation. The chances of it ever being the mother daughter share it was supposed to be are lower than mine of winning the lottery. And I don't buy a ticket for the lottery.
.
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so yesterday hives could have been a problem, may even have caused it and the outcome should be taken into account. Today 2 chips and it should be returned or PTS. Don't get that at all I am afraid.

To my mind either the horse has a serious problem that it came with, will never be right and should be PTS. By PTS I mean PTS not sent back for this to happen all over again. Alternatively there has been a management problem during it's time in England. If that could be resolved then the horse may be rideable. Will it be suitable for this mother/daughter then probably not however it may well be perfectly OK to be sold on which would be another option rather than PTS.
 
Gingerwitch said:
Not wealthy by any means but commited to the souls we have the privilege of buying. I could not live with my conscience of sending the poor lad back.
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ycbm said:
My opinion is now that the horse should be returned or PTS, it is a money pit and a heartbreaker situation.
.
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I agree with these two, now.
OP, if you care about the horse - and by the sounds of it you do - a quick painless death is by far and away the kindness option for him and the cheapest for you.

I also think it is far, far too risky that he would be sold on and potentially injure or kill somebody to send him back. Personally I wouldn't want that possibility on my conscience.
 
Keira 8888 said:
Have you read my posts properly? I did cover the basics! And more! I had his vaccinations done, a dental check by the vet, a dental check by a dentist, a vetting by my uk vet. Comprehensive fly products. A saddle professionally fitted and then brought back to assess saddle fit with new half pad!!!! I have absolutely looked after him. I have scoured forums to find solutions to crab flies - even gone on to french sites to see what solutions they have to crab flies out there! I have spent whatever money and time was needed to look after Prince!
I paid for a professional trainer to get involved! I did everything I could! My YO is an extremely respected horseman with decades of experience.

Please read the full threads before you post such an ill informed post
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I thought TPOs post was really good.
To be fair as much as I feel sorry for you and more so your horse and I wouldn't judge you on your next steps. Your talking about 4 weeks, you cant possibly say you've given him whatever time was needed.

Whatever time would be keeping him.
Whatever money would be a workup.

You're clearly kind but your management has shown your lack of knowledge and would affect most horses. Only sitting in a field for the first week with a horse sounds sweet but isn't setting them up to succeed.
 
paddy555 said:
so yesterday hives could have been a problem, may even have caused it and the outcome should be taken into account. Today 2 chips and it should be returned or PTS. Don't get that at all I am afraid.

To my mind either the horse has a serious problem that it came with, will never be right and should be PTS. By PTS I mean PTS not sent back for this to happen all over again. Alternatively there has been a management problem during it's time in England. If that could be resolved then the horse may be rideable. Will it be suitable for this mother/daughter then probably not however it may well be perfectly OK to be sold on which would be another option rather than PTS.
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The problem is though that even if this is a management issue (which personally I strongly doubt since it was in full livery with an experienced YO), then the horse can most likely only be managed and ridden by an experienced owner. I would assume that not many confident and experienced owners are looking for 24 year olds, especially known rearers:( I know that feeding can make a huge difference, but I would not expect such a reaction from a horse suitable for novices. The odd little buck or being a tiny bit too strong I could see, but near vertical rearing? A very sad situation for all.
 
ycbm said:
Most people who buy a new horse ride it the day it arrives or the following day and get it straight into the routine is going to be living in. Napping is not inevitable, it's common but not common enough to be classed as normal.

This is not a time, surely, to be making the OP feel any worse, particularly as she took advice from an experienced yard owner?

.
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That is certainly the advice that is often given on here! I wouldn't do it but that is my choice and I don't listen to 'well-meaning' advice.
 
He is 16 or perhaps younger not 24.

I couldn’t send him back as the cycle will just happen again with him. Be in no doubt the dealer will not retire him to a happy field as lovely as that sounds. But £2500 is a lot of money to loose. Ultimately it is up to the op to decide if they can loose this money and probably a fair bit more, or not. She has done the best for this horse up till now.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
I thought TPOs post was really good.
To be fair as much as I feel sorry for you and more so your horse and I wouldn't judge you on your next steps. Your talking about 4 weeks, you cant possibly say you've given him whatever time was needed.

Whatever time would be keeping him.
Whatever money would be a workup.

You're clearly kind but your management has shown your lack of knowledge and would affect most horses. Only sitting in a field for the first week with a horse sounds sweet but isn't setting them up to succeed.
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I disagree. I think it is absolutely setting him up to succeed. He had a long journey from Ireland. He was underweight. I needed to get to know him and observe him from afar. I think sitting in the field watching him for the first week was a wonderful start - and allowed me (a novice) to get on and ride him successfully when a professional rider couldn’t. Never underestimate letting a new horse have time to settle and get to know you and their new surroundings.
 
Keira 8888 said:
Have you read my posts properly? I did cover the basics! And more! I had his vaccinations done, a dental check by the vet, a dental check by a dentist, a vetting by my uk vet. Comprehensive fly products. A saddle professionally fitted and then brought back to assess saddle fit with new half pad!!!! I have absolutely looked after him. I have scoured forums to find solutions to crab flies - even gone on to french sites to see what solutions they have to crab flies out there! I have spent whatever money and time was needed to look after Prince!
I paid for a professional trainer to get involved! I did everything I could! My YO is an extremely respected horseman with decades of experience.

Please read the full threads before you post such an ill informed post
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I do see that you have done everything by the book. I am not criticising you at all. I think it is important that instead of taking comments as criticism you should realise they are not, they are trying to make sense of your situation in an attempt to help Prince.

Prince has gone from a thread where you were happy riding on 4th July to this one only a few days later. If he was a rearer/had serious problems etc etc etc why did both you and your daughter have such a nice time only a few days ago.

Sometimes you have to forget about the book and think outside the box. Horse keeping has little to do with following the book and doing all the vaccinations etc etc. That is just the accepted norm. It is about intuition. What has happened to cause this?
In your 4th July post you wrote that you had been out alone on country roads, met feral ponies, met cars and a hornet. He was calm. Life was fine.

A horse with such a serious problem would not have done that. At some stage in that ride he would have regressed into his previous nasty habits yet he didn't. Your daughter rode him.

One thing I hadn't noticed before about your post was he met a hornet. I met one several years ago, the horse got stung and was off work for 2 weeks. Looking at him may not have been very obvious but I have no doubt if I had ridden it would have been.

what is causing the hives. We have established you have done the right thing and called the vet. Had the right injection etc, changed the feed but how was/is Prince affected. He may not be or he may be.

Like many people if I had a pound for everytime someone tells me their vet/farrier/rider etc is an extremely respected horse person I would be rich as many others would.

You and your daughter rode Prince happily. Is your YO really that horse person? I have no idea. It is however something to look at. Does Prince dis like men? He certainly won't be the first.
Please don't take this as criticism. It is not. It is trying to find a reason that does not involve either a bullet or sending back to Ireland and a bleak future.
He may well not be suitable for you but if a reason can be found he may be suitable for someone else.
 
Kamikaze said:
He is 16 or perhaps younger not 24.

I couldn’t send him back as the cycle will just happen again with him. Be in no doubt the dealer will not retire him to a happy field as lovely as that sounds. But £2500 is a lot of money to loose. Ultimately it is up to the op to decide if they can loose this money and probably a fair bit more, or not. She has done the best for this horse up till now.
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Thank you for this x
 
paddy555 said:
I do see that you have done everything by the book. I am not criticising you at all. I think it is important that instead of taking comments as criticism you should realise they are not, they are trying to make sense of your situation in an attempt to help Prince.

Prince has gone from a thread where you were happy riding on 4th July to this one only a few days later. If he was a rearer/had serious problems etc etc etc why did both you and your daughter have such a nice time only a few days ago.

Sometimes you have to forget about the book and think outside the box. Horse keeping has little to do with following the book and doing all the vaccinations etc etc. That is just the accepted norm. It is about intuition. What has happened to cause this?
In your 4th July post you wrote that you had been out alone on country roads, met feral ponies, met cars and a hornet. He was calm. Life was fine.

A horse with such a serious problem would not have done that. At some stage in that ride he would have regressed into his previous nasty habits yet he didn't. Your daughter rode him.

One thing I hadn't noticed before about your post was he met a hornet. I met one several years ago, the horse got stung and was off work for 2 weeks. Looking at him may not have been very obvious but I have no doubt if I had ridden it would have been.

what is causing the hives. We have established you have done the right thing and called the vet. Had the right injection etc, changed the feed but how was/is Prince affected. He may not be or he may be.

Like many people if I had a pound for everytime someone tells me their vet/farrier/rider etc is an extremely respected horse person I would be rich as many others would.

You and your daughter rode Prince happily. Is your YO really that horse person? I have no idea. It is however something to look at. Does Prince dis like men? He certainly won't be the first.
Please don't take this as criticism. It is not. It is trying to find a reason that does not involve either a bullet or sending back to Ireland and a bleak future.
He may well not be suitable for you but if a reason can be found he may be suitable for someone else.
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Thank you for your post and I respect you very much from your previous kind posts to me. The comments I take as criticism are those which are inaccurate e.g that I didn’t get saddle fitted, dentist, fly protection etc..
 
Keira 8888 said:
I disagree. I think it is absolutely setting him up to succeed. He had a long journey from Ireland. He was underweight. I needed to get to know him and observe him from afar. I think sitting in the field watching him for the first week was a wonderful start - and allowed me (a novice) to get on and ride him successfully when a professional rider couldn’t. Never underestimate letting a new horse have time to settle and get to know you and their new surroundings.
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I won't list all the things you've done wrong in the last month but please get something suitable for a complete beginner next time don't mistake the kind posts for giving you a pat on the back. You can't ride better than a professional.
Please don't attempt to give me advice, it's not me that finds themselve in this unfortunate position...I wonder why that is.
 
I really feel for Keira and agree with others not a nice way to learn a hard lesson.

after after posting about looking for a horse on 1st June, querying costs etc had bought a horse by 4th of June.

An unseen, 16hh TB as a mother/daughter share for a novice rider and novice 9y/o daughter.
I honestly can’t get my head around that :(

I know she’s really tried her best getting pros/experienced people involved but it’s all been a bit gung ho.
 
paddy555 said:
so yesterday hives could have been a problem, may even have caused it and the outcome should be taken into account. Today 2 chips and it should be returned or PTS. Don't get that at all I am afraid.
.
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The information that the horse has two chips and that the dealer is running scared of the fact that they have been found is a game changer for me. It radically reduces the chances that this horse will ever be right for the owner, increases the sense in taking the return option (which could benefit horse kind and future owners by punishing the dealer) and reduces the sense in taking on a potential load of heartache in trying to fix the horse.

Other people will hold a different view, that's mine at the point of what we know now.

.
 
Op states he started being difficult to ride. So she, quite correctly, got yo (I think it was yo) to take over the reins. He then rode the horse when the horse was still getting progressively worse. So when op got on and he reared this was not the start of the issue. Yo has now said he will not ride the horse as behaviour getting worse and not a one off.

possibly the horse was in poor condition and had had a long journey and so didn’t act up. He got some decent feed (yes perhaps too much of a high energy feed) rested and is now feeling he has more energy and so the behaviour has restarted.
 
Mikas-mom said:
I really feel for Keira and Prince with all this mess. At the end of the day she (mistakenly) bought a horse who she was led to believe was suitable. As most have said, a more knowledgeable person wouldn’t have done things the way she did, but hey ho, what’s done is done, she can’t change the past.
as far as I know from reading her other threads, Keira has done her best to do right by Prince, including having the vets out, feet done, saddle checked, feed changes etc etc.
she is a novice first time owner and has been going on advice (whether right advice or wrong advice we don’t know as we don’t know all the ins and outs) that should be applauded as not many people would be so conscientious, Instead thinking they know best.
Yes, Prince has had A LOT of change in a short amount of time, and as most of us know it can take months, if not years for a horse to settle into a new home, some never do.
keira could now do things In so many different ways. She could go down the vets work out route, she could retire Prince as a field pet, she could go back to basics, stop all hard feed, try to get to the root cause of the hives...etc etc.

but what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that she bought Prince so she and her daughter could ride him and enjoy him. Right now she’s clearly not able to do that, and probably won’t be able to until the cause of his hives/rearing/napping are found and sorted. If at all
she didn’t sign up for that.

as she bought from a dealer she has a limited amount of time to return the horse, so those telling her to give him time need to really think about that. its all well and good giving him time (as most of us more experienced owners would do) but then she may be stuck with a horse who she cannot ride and cannot return.
of course I think none of us are under any illusions of what will happen to Prince. I don’t think any of us think he will be retired to live out his days, but that’s not something that should be out on Keira’s head.
its a sad fact that dealers like this exist, but they do, and while ever they do, horses like this are going to be passed around :(

Keira needs to do whats right for her and her daughter, and if that means sending Prince back to the dealer, sadly I have to say so be it. As I said before, we can’t save every horse, and in all reality not all of us can afford more than one horse Or lose the initial outlay.

she needs to take her heart out of the equation and use her head as hard as it will Be
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Thank you so much for this, everything you say is exactly how I feel xx thank you xx
 
Kamikaze said:
Op states he started being difficult to ride. So she, quite correctly, got yo (I think it was yo) to take over the reins. He then rode the horse when the horse was still getting progressively worse. So when op got on and he reared this was not the start of the issue. Yo has now said he will not ride the horse as behaviour getting worse and not a one off.

possibly the horse was in poor condition and had had a long journey and so didn’t act up. He got some decent feed (yes perhaps too much of a high energy feed) rested and is now feeling he has more energy and so the behaviour has restarted.
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Exactly this xx
 
Look, I love ex-racers, I've owned one, I've dealt with and ridden many, but they can certainly be too much. They really need the right feed and usually thrive on a consistent exercise program. When they start feeling good from proper nutrition and getting fit again, they can be a handful, as can horses of other breeding. However, an ex-racer is likely to have some mileage and old injuries. Not necessarily outright soundness issues, but it doesn't surprise me when there are a few things lurking beneath the surface on such a horse.
 
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