Never thought I’d be writing this :(

Goodness I am getting confused/exhausted by this sad story. OP you have done nothing wrong - bet there is no-one on here who has not been led into a bad experience by their lack of knowledge/experience at some time in their horse journey. Don't be put off my folk saying that ex-racers/TBs are not for first time buyers - if you have good support and advice it can work well and some "sweet little Natives" can be the very devil if they want to!!!
However, that aside, I am not getting a clear picture of what you actually want to do with Prince? He has only been with you a short time so do you really think you know what is wrong with him? For me, I would not be able to make a clear decision until I had the facts but I realise that we are all different.
Further down the line, when you begin the search for a safe horse, please have a look at the charities - the horses will be properly assessed, you will have their support going forward and it will not cost you nearly as much as buying unseen from Ireland. Blue Cross, World Horse Welfare, Redwings, Hopton Re-hab and Rehoming, all have a good reputation for helping people find the right horse.
I hope you can move this forward soon - both for yourself and Prince.
 
Trouper said:
Goodness I am getting confused/exhausted by this sad story. OP you have done nothing wrong - bet there is no-one on here who has not been led into a bad experience by their lack of knowledge/experience at some time in their horse journey. Don't be put off my folk saying that ex-racers/TBs are not for first time buyers - if you have good support and advice it can work well and some "sweet little Natives" can be the very devil if they want to!!!
However, that aside, I am not getting a clear picture of what you actually want to do with Prince? He has only been with you a short time so do you really think you know what is wrong with him? For me, I would not be able to make a clear decision until I had the facts but I realise that we are all different.
Further down the line, when you begin the search for a safe horse, please have a look at the charities - the horses will be properly assessed, you will have their support going forward and it will not cost you nearly as much as buying unseen from Ireland. Blue Cross, World Horse Welfare, Redwings, Hopton Re-hab and Rehoming, all have a good reputation for helping people find the right horse.
I hope you can move this forward soon - both for yourself and Prince.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your advice - I will certainly look into that.

So I am torn between two decisions at the moment - getting a full medical work up (which I know may or may not bring up what is truly at the root of the problem here) OR sending him back to Ireland direct to my cousin who I trust and who will let him enjoy a wonderful retirement.

I am considering everyone’s advice very carefully and will have to make a final decision v soon. Will let you know which way I go. Thanks so much for listening and your advice. I know it has been an exhausting thread - it feels like a rollercoaster at the moment. Thanks again x
 
Jellymoon said:
[Content removed]
Click to expand...
yes she made a mistake buying unseen, but she was not "sold" an ex racer, if the other threads are correct then she was sold a safe older horse that has been there & done that, and has since stopped riding the horse when it has proved to be something other than advertised. I don't think social services need to do anything here!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Keira 8888 said:
Thanks for your advice - I will certainly look into that.

So I am torn between two decisions at the moment - getting a full medical work up (which I know may or may not bring up what is truly at the root of the problem here) OR sending him back to Ireland direct to my cousin who I trust and who will let him enjoy a wonderful retirement.

I am considering everyone’s advice very carefully and will have to make a final decision v soon. Will let you know which way I go. Thanks so much for listening and your advice. I know it has been an exhausting thread - it feels like a rollercoaster at the moment. Thanks again x
Click to expand...

If you've definitely decided not to send him back and have the money (bearing in mind insurance may not pay out), it's worth getting a vet work-up. I don't think it's likely you'll come across a quick and easy diagnosis and fix but you never know. Best option is that you'll end up with a ridable horse, even if it isn't you/your daughter who ride him. Retiring him with no idea what's causing his issues and no attempt to resolve them could mean that his wonderful retirement is full of pain.
 
Frumpoon said:
Kiera, I've pmed you, I can't think of anybody in Hampshire that I recommend but I do know of a couple of highly experienced, kind, sensible women trainers in oxon and bucks respectively.

If you could box the horse to them and tell them what you've told us they would give you a sensible plan which might or might not include getting one of their also kind, sensible women work riders to sit on horse and then you would know if it is simply a yard/feed/allergy/heavy handed male rider issue
Click to expand...
Thank you for this x
 
I would suggest speaking to your vet about all of this- advice is free (in most decent practices!) and it would at least be worth checking if your insurance would be valid. I will say, normally accident/injury eg. Fracture is covered immediately but “illness”, which your issues would probably be classed as, will only be triggered after 2 or 4 weeks of cover. Your practice should know which brackets different insurance companies fall into.

It would also be worth just talking to them about finances if your insurance company won’t cover it. I work in a Veterinary hospital and if an owner comes in with a similar story to yours where they have tried their best and exhausted “normal” avenues but they are just outside of insurance etc then we will try our hardest to get the most out of their money. If you say “I have £500 how would you advise spending it?” then we will do a costing of work first and talk it through with the owner. You could probably get a scope and a couple of xrays for that whilst using the same sedation- it’s just up to you and your vet to decide WHAT to xray eg. limbs vs spine and if scoping is recommended based on history etc.

You should also be prepared to find nothing (as in, looking in the wrong places) or that you find something eg. Ulcers that are expensive to medicate and may not be the “rear inducing” problem. BUT we also have lots of owners come in crying and saying their horse needs to be PTS for rearing, biting, kicking etc and it turns out they have an old infected jaw fracture that needed xrays to find and a course of antibiotics to sort. Job done. Normal horse again. I’ve even seen PTS talk problems that just needed worming to sort!

You may also need to consider that an ex-hunter, eventer, RS horse that is (meant to be!)16 may also have rocket ship miles under their belt and may just need medication to help them in every day life. Arthritis can be very painful too.

Good luck!
 
Keira 8888 said:
Thanks for your advice - I will certainly look into that.

So I am torn between two decisions at the moment - getting a full medical work up (which I know may or may not bring up what is truly at the root of the problem here) OR sending him back to Ireland direct to my cousin who I trust and who will let him enjoy a wonderful retirement.

I am considering everyone’s advice very carefully and will have to make a final decision v soon. Will let you know which way I go. Thanks so much for listening and your advice. I know it has been an exhausting thread - it feels like a rollercoaster at the moment. Thanks again x
Click to expand...



Can you explain why you didn't ask your cousin to visit the horse at the dealer's yard, so that you weren't buying unseen, as the cousin is at least in the same country? And who advised you to ride the horse that had just been treated for hives? Was it the treating vet, or the YO?
 
Pippity said:
If you've definitely decided not to send him back and have the money (bearing in mind insurance may not pay out), it's worth getting a vet work-up. I don't think it's likely you'll come across a quick and easy diagnosis and fix but you never know. Best option is that you'll end up with a ridable horse, even if it isn't you/your daughter who ride him. Retiring him with no idea what's causing his issues and no attempt to resolve them could mean that his wonderful retirement is full of pain.
Click to expand...
Yep good point. It’s just he seems happy as a clam in the field - bright and alert, no kicking at his stomach. When he rolls he goes all the way over which someone commented was a good sign. It’s only when someone rides him outside his field that the problems start. X
 
So, I have a thought here. There is no way, in my corner of the world, that one would be able to purchase a mid-teens gelding, that is safe, been there & done that, all for 2500. The price of the horse alone would make me skeptical as a truly safe and experienced horse that is sound should bring a lot more. Then again, I am not super familiar with the market in Ireland. This is total hindsight and somewhat irrelevant but just a note to remember in future shopping endeavors that if it sounds too good to be true...well...
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Can you explain why you didn't ask your cousin to visit the horse at the dealer's yard, so that you weren't buying unseen, as the cousin is at least in the same country?
Click to expand...
Sadly no, that is a good point. I had videos of absolutely everything from Prince being showered to hacking on the roads alone. Bring tacked up, hooves picked out etc.. Being caught in the field. All the things that I had read were important to assess I asked for videos of. Naively I knew nothing about Bute at this point. This is in no way a defence of what I did, I know I’ve been a plonker.
 
Another option could be to put the horse on the field for a year at your cousin's and then have a pro (with full disclosure of prior issues) try to restart him after a year or so of "Dr. Green" But I'm not sure this would be a good plan at all. Totally depends on what is actually "wrong" with him.

I can completely understand you never wanting to get on this horse again. I can't fault you for that!
 
CanteringCarrot said:
So, I have a thought here. There is no way, in my corner of the world, that one would be able to purchase a mid-teens gelding, that is safe, been there & done that, all for 2500. The price of the horse alone would make me skeptical as a truly safe and experienced horse that is sound should bring a lot more. Then again, I am not super familiar with the market in Ireland. This is total hindsight and somewhat irrelevant but just a note to remember in future shopping endeavors that if it sounds too good to be true...well...
Click to expand...

yes exactly this! I just couldn’t find anything suitable for my budget in England (I now know my budget needs to be way higher if I want a safe, older horse) So when I saw the advert I couldnt quite believe it, especially as the dealer was so good at taking videos of everything I wanted to see. I thought I had got so lucky because of his age or perhaps the fact that he now wanted a quieter life as a happy hacker. Lessons learnt. :(
 
Keira 8888 said:
yes exactly this! I just couldn’t find anything suitable for my budget in England (I now know my budget needs to be way higher if I want a safe, older horse) So when I saw the advert I couldnt quite believe it, especially as the dealer was so good at taking videos of everything I wanted to see. I thought I had got so lucky because of his age or perhaps the fact that he now wanted a quieter life as a happy hacker. Lessons learnt. :(
Click to expand...

I went back and looked at your old posts - it’s not constructive to say it told you so’ but you have to understand dealers are in this to make money. To do it right, source and pay for a horse, keep it and assess it for a while, then deal with the sales process - nothing to be made on 2.5k is there?
Genuine dealers you can at least double that figure if not more.

That said, I think you could find a nice kind older horse to happy hack with. From a private owner, locally, via word of mouth whose priority is placing the horse in a kind home. You may need to manage medical issues that come with age, mild arthritis/Cushings etc but for the right horse it could be worth it.

Id suggest that when Princes fate is sealed, you advertise on nfed and see what materialises. If possible start with a loan or LWVTB.
 
CanteringCarrot said:
So, I have a thought here. There is no way, in my corner of the world, that one would be able to purchase a mid-teens gelding, that is safe, been there & done that, all for 2500. The price of the horse alone would make me skeptical as a truly safe and experienced horse that is sound should bring a lot more. Then again, I am not super familiar with the market in Ireland. This is total hindsight and somewhat irrelevant but just a note to remember in future shopping endeavors that if it sounds too good to be true...well...
Click to expand...

The price would not be far off for a 16 year old high mileage horse that is unlikely to pass a vetting but may still be fit enough to hack, potter about doing light work, not many of that age would pass a 5 stage, a bigger horse without some background/ competition record even with prices being sky high at the moment I don't think would be worth any more, a smaller horse, large pony will usually command a higher price as there are far more potential buyers and they do tend to stay sounder, a bit of generalisation but if they have only been in relatively easy work all their lives they will not have the wear and tear a former hunter/ eventer/ RS horse will probably have.
 
before deciding anything I would take up offers, such as Frumpoon's and no doubt others have offered, take Prince somewhere where there are experienced girls who are sympathetic and able to assess him. Find out to start with if he has a behavioural problem. You need someone experienced, who is kind as I suspect he is a very sensitive horse, and who can take a look at the situation and tell you what you are looking at. Someone experienced with TB's and ex racers which he could well be will be able to provide useful info. Then you can decide where to go.

In the meantime what have you learnt from the 2 chips and passports? have you researched them and do they throw any light on the situation?
 
Archangel said:
My own feeling is that the ones that go straight up so high they teeter or go over are at the end of their tether - pain/fear/pressure.

A full vet work up would be my first port of call (the one that went over with me was pain related).
Click to expand...

^^ I think this too. If he's a kind horse in the field and a nice person when you're on the ground, his behavior under saddle sounds very out of character x
 
I do feel for you OP because what’s best for you in this situation is not what’s best for the horse.
Sorry if I’ve missed it but have the hives been treated by a vet? Are they gone now? If you don’t know what they are/what caused them you can’t be sure he isn’t in pain/discomfort from them.
I know others have said this but taking him off hard feed is a good idea, it may well be the cause of your problems.
Whatever you do next I’d start with those things.
The best thing for you is to send Prince back and get your refund. Unfortunately you’ll have to accept that this means Prince will go back to a dodgy dealer and then on to another novice buyer. He - very sadly - is not likely to have a happy ending in this scenario.
The best thing for Prince is for you to chuck money at him - start with treating the hives, then a full lameness work up, kissing spines and ulcers checked first. And then if nothing is found, or he is successfully treated, a sympathetic pro rider for a couple months to sort out his confusion and get him going nicely, whilst you learn everything you can about horse care whilst he’s away. Then - if the pro is if the opinion that he’s suitable for you - educated horse and educated rider will hopefully get on with no more major issues. Do you know yet if your insurance would cover a work up at this point?
Obviously it’s going to be expensive, and only you know if you can afford that. If you can’t, sending him to your cousin in Ireland could work. Would he have other horses around, is your cousin experienced?
 
It may be pain or it may be a bloke thing or it could be any amount of issues. Get a vet ask some difficult questions and don't always believe years past experience yard owners always know best for your horse. You have a totally different way with the horse that put horse under quite sympathetic questions or can we do this please, not a YOU WILL NOW. Some experienced riders know how to pressure a horse and back off. Some like to look like God at the detriment of the horse and the owners confidence as they live an ego trip. Sometimes the ego trip can backfire go all.
Good luck in whatever you decide
 
Keira I think you've handled yourself extremely well on this thread. Sure buying your first horse unseen from Ireland might not have been your smartest move, but people make mistakes and it is clear from your responses that you're trying to do right by Prince.

Horses by their very nature are stoic creatures and don't always show their discomfort as in a former life it would have made them easy pickings for a predator if they were outwardly showing their pain. Therefore regardless of whether he rolls completely over in the field or isn't kicking at his stomach, I really would recommend that if you do decide to keep him (whether than be with you or as a field ornament with your cousin) that you do at least try to ascertain that he's not in any pain or discomfort before either exploring your options or retiring him to pasture.

From what you've said I'm not wholly convinced he's a dangerous horse with no hope of coming right, but equally, I can fully understand why you would be reticent to get on him again after a rear like that. There's absolutely no shame in deciding you don't want to ride him again either, at the end of the day you and your daughter's safety has to come first. But, if you aren't going to send him back for a refund I do think you have a duty of care to at the very least ensure he's not in pain, even if you don't plan to ever ride him again.
 
It does seem like things were going along nicely until the YO got involved with his lunging and riding. Keira did you ever watch him riding/working your horse? Maybe he's the reason that he now wants to stay in the field where he feels safe. He obviously now thinks that leaving the field is a terrible idea if you can't get him in without a hand clapper walking behind.

Watching 'professionals' at work can be a real eye opener.
 
Think some people are being very harsh to OP. She has admitted over and over she has made a mistake, I think its clear that she would not have bought the Horse if the problems were known.

I was also once a very naive first time buyer, I spent over the odds for a green 5 year old, from someone who i now believe to be a dealer. Luckily it turned out fine for me and we had 8 wonderful years together, But it could have easily gone the other way.
 
Just sat and read the whole thread. My word we have some folk on HHO who have clearly never made a mistake and were born with all the knowledge they have now.

OP if you are in the Dorset side of the new forest I know of a couple of professionals who I could suggest to you to help re-school your horse. I don't think the set up he is currently in is doing you any favours especially now the YO has more or less washed his hands of your horse (he could be potentially making the situation worse).

If I were in your boots and didn't want to send him back. I think I'd move him to a different yard (with lots of turn out and a supportive YO (may take some research)) get him checked over by a vet for pain, ulcers etc. taken him off all hard feed (maybe give him something like fast fibre and a calmer/balancer if needed) give him a couple of weeks off ridden work to get to know and trust his surroundings and them ask the YO/professional to restart him and teach you to ride your horse.

If this didn't work they could potentially find a suitable home for him and help you find something more suitable for you and you daughter.
 
Have been following this thread, and wanted to give my story in the hope that it helps the OP!

Just over two years ago I bought a most beautiful Warmblood mare from a lady who bred her, I did due diligence and watched her being ridden, had an experienced friend ride her, rode her in the school, had a second visit where I hacked her out.

Saw numerous videos of her being ridden at different venues, Dressage, jumping, loading in a trailer, horse box. Had a 5 stage vetting and Facebook stalked the owners post for even the slightest wrong doing. All was good so I proceeded to pay a tidy sum for my perfect horse.

4 weeks into ownership, we did a dressage comp and she was foot perfect, so I booked the same venue 2 weeks later. All hell broke loose trying to get her in the trailer, rearing, biting, bolting. I then spent the next 3 months working on her being relaxed, thinking great I’ve cracked it, off we go again.

I booked a Polework clinic and she went ballistic, bolted across the arena broncked and sent me sky high. Really not what I had signed up for and I was terrified of her. Very promptly taken to a dressage yard to ascertain what we could do so I could sell her, there was no way I was getting back on her.

Cutting a long story very short, 18 months later and we have finally got to the bottom of some pain, which whilst not excruciating pain for her was just enough to overspill her stress bucket. Along with the change of home, owner etc etc.

I have owned horses for 20+ years so wouldn’t class myself as a novice, but I did obviously miss some signs that she was giving me, putting it down to a new horse testing the boundaries ?.

Yes, the OP has made some mistakes (haven’t we all), and who can blame her for sending the horse back. Not everyone has the right support, finances and sheer determination to overcome such issues.
 
Jellymoon said:
[Content removed]
Click to expand...

Good grief, From this post, it will be clear to the whole internet who exactly "needs to get a grip". it is very easy to sit and type and be nasty and there is absolutely no place for an attitude such as yours.

You nasty, unsympathetic individual. You must be extremely gifted in life, as obviously you have never made a mistake. Despite what you appear to believe about yourself, people just arent born with "horse sense" and there are so many sellers out there just waiting to scam a novice owner. The OP, has been so honest about what has happened and I'm certain she realises it wasnt the best decision, however, there is absolutely no need for this attitude towards anyone, let alone a stranger who has got into a bad situation and has come on here asking for help and advice.

You must be an absolute joy to be around in real life. I suggest you wind your neck in and attempt to find even a tiny part of yourself that can be civil to others.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
One of mine (the sweetest one in fact) was sold (and then refunded) to a previous home before coming to me. She was so difficult in that particular home the new owner couldn't cope and sent her back. She's been an absolute angel and no trouble at all here for the last ten years. There are so many things that can send horses over the edge, apart from pain. I'm not saying he's not in pain but it could be any number of factors.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top