Never thought I’d be writing this :(

[Meowy Catkin]

What does LOU mean DabDab?

Thanks for your reply x

LOU = loss of use

So for example, you insure the horse as an eventer. The horse has an injury and cannot event any more but can still be ridden, so you get a 'loss of use' insurance payment as the horse now has a much lower value and cannot do the job of eventing. As the horse can still be a happy hacker it should be freeze marked to indicate it has been the subject of a LOU payment. The horse can then be sold as a happy hacker.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Whilst I agree with you, if you keep him, it is simply funding another poor horse into this system. No way you can stop them all, at least this way you prevent them making a profit out of Prince and actually make them a loss by them having to pay transport. If everyone did this then they would eventually go out of business.

Which I why I would pursue the 'intent to defraud' pathway, although it might be more difficult as the dealer is in Ireland - and I don't know how the law there works. If I were OP, I would negotiate a partial refund from the dealer, probably telling her that I had been advised topts (regardless of what my eventual actions were), then when I had the money, I would try to find the previous registered owners via the original microchip or if that failed plaster the internet with 'do you know this horse?' type photos.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I like your plan if Prince will have some equine company on your relatives' land.

 

[Keira 8888]

LOU = loss of use

So for example, you insure the horse as an eventer. The horse has an injury and cannot event any more but can still be ridden, so you get a 'loss of use' insurance payment as the horse now has a much lower value and cannot do the job of eventing. As the horse can still be a happy hacker it should be freeze marked to indicate it has been the subject of a LOU payment. The horse can then be sold as a happy hacker.

Ahh I see. So having had the LOU pay out the owner may then have sold Prince at an auction at which point my dealer prob picked him up for meat money and sold him on to me for thousands!

 

[Keira 8888]

Keira I am so very sorry that you are in this situation. You have nothing to be ashamed of, someone took advantage of your inexperience, but regardless most long term horse owners have at least once made a mistake and bought a horse that does not work out for one reason or other, I know that I have. You have been doing your best to do right by him, keeping him on full livery with an experienced YO, paying for him to be ridden by an experienced rider...... we can only do our best.

I totally understand your reluctance to send him back. I do think however that you have to accept that you and your daughter should never ride this horse again, the risk is simply too great. At his age the chances of finding an experienced home who want to work with him is virtually 0, so if you really do not want to send him back I think your best option might be to have the vet look at him and if he is comfortable in the paddock look for someone who wants a companion horse on long term loan. In this case I would be seriously looking at getting at least some refund from the seller.

One thing did strike me. You said "He is a different horse coming back than he is leaving." So perhaps not pain related, but you can not be certain, as it could also just be that by this stage he has warmed up and has less pain. The real problem is that you may never know, as if the vet finds nothing it can mean that there is either no pain, or that the source of the pain is just not discovered. So really if you do decide to keep him do so with your eyes open and knowing that you may have a hard, and potentially expensive. road ahead. If you send him back the dealer won't do extensive investigations, so in this case he will either be sold on or pts, probably the first of these 2 options.

Having a paddock ornament for potentially 10+ years is an expensive business. This may be controversial, and I am sure that many people will tell you that it is your decision alone, but I would also try to discuss with your husband and agree on the course of action. A good friend of mine has an 8 year old in retirement livery, and I know that it has caused many disagreements over the years. In my opinion it is better if he can at least feel that he has had a say.

You are not the first person to be taken advantage of in this way, so do not beat yourself up about it. Good luck, and really I am so sorry x

Thank you so much Winters - I really appreciate your lovely message. Xx

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Ahh I see. So having had the LOU pay out the owner may then have sold Prince at an auction at which point my dealer prob picked him up for meat money and sold him on to me for thousands!

If he was the subject of a LOU case he should (in theory) have the LOU freeze mark which is an L inside a circle. See pic where it is underneath the standard Farmkey four digit identity freeze mark.

If Prince doesn't have the LOU mark, then it is most likely that he isn't a LOU horse but it isn't impossible.

Don't forget that horses get injured but as they aren't insured for LOU there will be no claim made. These horses won't be marked of course.

 

[scats]

It started three weeks after owning him, so a week ago. I rode him in his field after a week and he was perfect. My daughter rode him too. It was only when he was taken from his field that he started to nap and act up. So the rearing started just this week x

Did the rearing start when the pro rode? I’m not saying anything against the rider, but there would be certain types of rider that one of my mares would easily rear with. This doesn’t mean they are a bad rider, but if a horse is particularly nappy, a certain amount of pressure can easily mean they feel they have nowhere to go but up. When my mares gets her nappy head on, if you were to simply just continue to try and force her forwards, she rears. Yet I wouldn’t describe her as a rearer. I know how to ride her to stop this happening but she would be absolutely lethal with the wrong rider. I’m wondering if this is why you have had no problems riding for the last few weeks up until the pro got on. The pro is more likely to ride the horse forwards strongly if it naps, which may well have caused this behaviour.

Realistically, where do you go from here? Regardless of whether this behaviour has been caused by a bit too much pressure, I’m guessing you probably don’t want to get on it again (which I understand)
As a side note, has the tack been checked and fitted properly? A poorly fitted saddle can be tolerated for a plod around, but up the game a bit and it’s another candle lit in a chain of discomfort.

I suppose you either send the horse back and get a refund, chalk it down to inexperience and learn from this but accept that the fate of the Horse will not be in your hands.
Normally I am one who will advocate putting horses to sleep if avenues have been explored, but I would struggle to do this without some form of investigative work to find out what the cause is. However, this will potentially cost a lot of money (do double check your insurance in this instance, many have a 3 months time frame before you can claim on anything other than accidental injuries) and obviously you have to keep a horse that you can’t ride during this time, which for a first time owner is probably not what you want to do. You may also find that at the end of if, something is found and you have to put the horse to sleep anyway, or indeed nothing is found but you don’t feel confident enough to try and ride the horse again regardless.

I’m trying to put myself in your position and not that of someone with 30 years experience. You are a first time owner who wants a horse to ride but you have made a mistake in the way you have purchased the horse and the horse has now behaved in a way that has scared you and a pro has advised not to ride it again. At this moment in time, how important is the riding part to you? Because if you intend to continue with this Horse and investigate the issues, you will find yourself without a horse to ride for the foreseeable. If riding is really the main drive for you, and please don’t feel any shame in this if it is (I wouldn’t keep horses if I couldn’t ride, they don’t interest me as pets) then, as heartbreaking as it is, I would return the horse and get your money back.

Many of us on this forum have the experience, knowledge and facilities to take a punt on rehabbing a horse, even if the long term outcome is unknown, but we may be coming at it from the privilege of being able to run a riding horse alongside it and having a pretty good idea of the steps we would take to get to the bottom of the issue.

I fully understand that this isn’t what you signed up for and I am desperately sorry that your first step into horse ownership has gone this way. No matter what you decide to do, you will have a lot of support from the people on here to help you along the way x

 

[ester]

I like the plan,
You’ve been very efficient in coming up with a plan, maybe you should offer planning skills
I hope it works out.

As you have a lot of horsey people in the village use them/your rider in future with regards to possibilities and contacts.

 

[Keira 8888]

I like the plan,
You’ve been very efficient in coming up with a plan, maybe you should offer planning skills
I hope it works out.

As you have a lot of horsey people in the village use them/your rider in future with regards to possibilities and contacts.

Thank you ?

 

[Keira 8888]

Did the rearing start when the pro rode? I’m not saying anything against the rider, but there would be certain types of rider that one of my mares would easily rear with. This doesn’t mean they are a bad rider, but if a horse is particularly nappy, a certain amount of pressure can easily mean they feel they have nowhere to go but up. When my mares gets her nappy head on, if you were to simply just continue to try and force her forwards, she rears. Yet I wouldn’t describe her as a rearer. I know how to ride her to stop this happening but she would be absolutely lethal with the wrong rider. I’m wondering if this is why you have had no problems riding for the last few weeks up until the pro got on. The pro is more likely to ride the horse forwards strongly if it naps, which may well have caused this behaviour.

Realistically, where do you go from here? Regardless of whether this behaviour has been caused by a bit too much pressure, I’m guessing you probably don’t want to get on it again (which I understand)
As a side note, has the tack been checked and fitted properly? A poorly fitted saddle can be tolerated for a plod around, but up the game a bit and it’s another candle lit in a chain of discomfort.

I suppose you either send the horse back and get a refund, chalk it down to inexperience and learn from this but accept that the fate of the Horse will not be in your hands.
Normally I am one who will advocate putting horses to sleep if avenues have been explored, but I would struggle to do this without some form of investigative work to find out what the cause is. However, this will potentially cost a lot of money (do double check your insurance in this instance, many have a 3 months time frame before you can claim on anything other than accidental injuries) and obviously you have to keep a horse that you can’t ride during this time, which for a first time owner is probably not what you want to do. You may also find that at the end of if, something is found and you have to put the horse to sleep anyway, or indeed nothing is found but you don’t feel confident enough to try and ride the horse again regardless.

I’m trying to put myself in your position and not that of someone with 30 years experience. You are a first time owner who wants a horse to ride but you have made a mistake in the way you have purchased the horse and the horse has now behaved in a way that has scared you and a pro has advised not to ride it again. At this moment in time, how important is the riding part to you? Because if you intend to continue with this Horse and investigate the issues, you will find yourself without a horse to ride for the foreseeable. If riding is really the main drive for you, and please don’t feel any shame in this if it is (I wouldn’t keep horses if I couldn’t ride, they don’t interest me as pets) then, as heartbreaking as it is, I would return the horse and get your money back.

Many of us on this forum have the experience, knowledge and facilities to take a punt on rehabbing a horse, even if the long term outcome is unknown, but we may be coming at it from the privilege of being able to run a riding horse alongside it and having a pretty good idea of the steps we would take to get to the bottom of the issue.

I fully understand that this isn’t what you signed up for and I am desperately sorry that your first step into horse ownership has gone this way. No matter what you decide to do, you will have a lot of support from the people on here to help you along the way x

Now this is very interesting... yes, it did all start with the pro rider. He was nappy being led with me - but not when ridden. Probably because I never applied any pressure and would just sit there singing to him (!!) until he got bored and decided to walk on! I would say it was far more luck though, as he did eventually de seat me with his rear and I hadn’t applied much pressure at all. X

 

[CanteringCarrot]

So I have a plan! I will accept the refund (I have a solicitor in Ireland ready to go) I have a lot of family in Ireland and I’m going to ask my cousin to call the stable the minute I know Prince has arrived back and buy him back, for hopefully a very small sum. My cousin has lots of land and is happy to keep him as a companion horse. Dies this sound like a good plan?

Honestly, no. Well, the keeping him as a field ornament sounds fine if you/your cousin have the means. I'd cut out the dealer because maybe you'll get the refund, and maybe the horse will arrive back at their yard, but how do you know they will then sell the horse to your cousin? And at a low/reasonable cost?

If you really wanted to do right by the animal you would figure out what's actually wrong with him, pts, or give directly to your cousin. Is it a financial loss? Yes.

I would pursue this investigation into the second microchip, however.

The thing that irks me, and this is not personal, is that inexperienced people buy horses, often sight unseen, they arrive, something happens (too much horse, wrong feed, health issues that weren't revealed or investigated, the list goes on) and just want someone else to take care of the problem that they got themselves into. I'm not saying this is exactly what is happening in this thread, but it just bothers me when people say "I'll do right by the horse." when they actually mean "I'll do right by the horse...as long as I get my money back, I can buy another, it is convenient for me, etc."

Only you, OP, know what is within your means. Only you will ultimately decide what you'll do. No doubt it is a crap situation and I'm sorry that your experience in owning a horse has ended up this way. I can imagine that it is overwhelming.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

As for the pro, I do agree some "bring out the worst" in horses or push them the wrong way. However, this horse being nappy while being led in signals to me he is in pain and dreading the possibility of work. I think this is the same horse that also broke away and got loose? I could be mixing up threads here. But it seems like something is clearly bothering him. He could have a hell of an attitude, but more times than not, it is pain related.

I do admit I have a horse that plays jokes on others, as in he will make a different handler believe he cannot walk through a puddle, trot in hand, or be a productive member of society, but there is a difference between "testing" or needing a sharp handler, and a clear demonstration of resistance due to pain. No horse that isn't driven by insanity (a screw loose), a total rotten rider, or pain, WANTS to rear up, high, with a rider. When a horse loses self preservation, there is a serious issue, IMO.

 

[tristar]

so sorry for your problems, and poor prince in the middle of all this.

but i would be very interested to find out what happens with the micro chips, is he stolen or what is the reason for the two chips, sounds like a lot of history there

 

[Keira 8888]

Honestly, no. Well, the keeping him as a field ornament sounds fine if you/your cousin have the means. I'd cut out the dealer because maybe you'll get the refund, and maybe the horse will arrive back at their yard, but how do you know they will then sell the horse to your cousin? And at a low/reasonable cost?

If you really wanted to do right by the animal you would figure out what's actually wrong with him, pts, or give directly to your cousin. Is it a financial loss? Yes.

I would pursue this investigation into the second microchip, however.

The thing that irks me, and this is not personal, is that inexperienced people buy horses, often sight unseen, they arrive, something happens (too much horse, wrong feed, health issues that weren't revealed or investigated, the list goes on) and just want someone else to take care of the problem that they got themselves into. I'm not saying this is exactly what is happening in this thread, but it just bothers me when people say "I'll do right by the horse." when they actually mean "I'll do right by the horse...as long as I get my money back, I can buy another, it is convenient for me, etc."

Only you, OP, know what is within your means. Only you will ultimately decide what you'll do. No doubt it is a crap situation and I'm sorry that your experience in owning a horse has ended up this way. I can imagine that it is overwhelming.

yep, you are 100% right. Now I have gone through this it will never ever happen again though and I’m going to keep my eye on the new rider forum here so that I can spot anyone about to make the same mistake. X

 

[CanteringCarrot]

yep, you are 100% right. Now I have gone through this it will never ever happen again though and I’m going to keep my eye on the new rider forum here so that I can spot anyone about to make the same mistake. X

I will say, it's such a crap way to learn. It is good that you are learning from the experience and trying to prevent others from falling into the same trap.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Not to hijack, but this could help the OP anyway, but what are legitimate reasons for a horse having 2 microchips? My not so creative brain can't think of any.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

No horse that isn't driven by insanity (a screw loose), a total rotten rider, or pain, WANTS to rear up, high, with a rider.

I owned the exception to this but she was a very, very rare exception and her full history from birth was known. I was given her for free to be a nanny for youngstock.

 

[Flame_]

No horse that isn't driven by insanity (a screw loose), a total rotten rider, or pain, WANTS to rear up, high, with a rider. When a horse loses self preservation, there is a serious issue, IMO.

I don't agree. Plenty of horses with a natural inclination towards and talent for rearing manage to learn its a very effective way to evade ridden requests they're not on board with.

OP, there are loads of horses that need homes that would never vertically rear because they've got a strong pro rider on and they're unhappy, they're in a new place and unsettled, their saddle's a bit tight and they're uncomfy, etc, etc... These are your first horses - tolerant, forgiving while you're making some mistakes and not keen on over-reactions. You don't owe this horse, you've paid a lot of money to get landed with a big, expensive problem please send it back and attach to the right one.

 

[ester]

Not to hijack, but this could help the OP anyway, but what are legitimate reasons for a horse having 2 microchips? My not so creative brain can't think of any.

I can see why if one has migrated and can’t be found but given the Vet found both that seems not to be the case here.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I don't agree. Plenty of horses with a natural inclination towards and talent for rearing manage to learn its a very effective way to evade ridden requests they're not on board with.

OP, there are loads of horses that need homes that would never vertically rear because they've got a strong pro rider on and they're unhappy, they're in a new place and unsettled, their saddle's a bit tight and they're uncomfy, etc, etc... These are your first horses - tolerant, forgiving while you're making some mistakes and not keen on over-reactions. You don't owe this horse, you've paid a lot of money to get landed with a big, expensive problem please send it back and attach to the right one.

Ok, to each their own. However, if they learn its a very effective way to evade ridden requests I'd argue the rider played some role there.

I've had a horse who popped up (very, very low) and got light in the front a time or two when I first had him as an evasion to forward because behind the leg/not respectful of forward aids, but standing all the way up to the point of potential to fall backwards with a rider, nope. Well, actually, I did have that horse too but he had a variety of health issues upon further investigation and was pts. Regardless of the reason, I think we both agree its not the right horse or situation for the OP.

 

[paddy555]

Now this is very interesting... yes, it did all start with the pro rider. He was nappy being led with me - but not when ridden. Probably because I never applied any pressure and would just sit there singing to him (!!) until he got bored and decided to walk on! I would say it was far more luck though, as he did eventually de seat me with his rear and I hadn’t applied much pressure at all. X

having read your comments on this thread and some of your earlier threads I am a bit astounded. A perfectly nice old horse has gone from lovely to possibly even kissing spines on this thread in 3 weeks.

Re your point about sending him back and your relation buying him for very little. If you send him back to a dealer he will sell him for the same amount you paid and then in a few weeks time we will have another new owner on here with identical problems about this particular horse. The dealer is not going to sell him for peanuts nor to retire him. For the double microchip our vet always scans the whole horse before chipping so perhaps they simply didn't find the first chip when they put the 2nd one in.

You seem to have gone in 3 weeks from having an older horse shipped over from Ireland where it seems to have been in other homes in relatively quick succession and now in yet another home, to the horse pulling back and getting loose when tied up, to you riding it calmly, to a lovely pic with your daughter of a lovely horse, to having an allergic reaction, to potential alfalfa problems, underweight and being fed, hives, doesn't want to come out of the field, naps, rears and whatever else I have missed.

On 4th July you wrote you rode and had a nice time now it is only 8 days later and this.

For heaven's sake slow down. This horse has had his entire life changed in a very short time. I got my latest new horse, also 16, last Christmas. He was great leading out the first day. Walked beautifully, 3 weeks later I could hardly get him to move under saddle and he wouldn't even lead 100 yards down the road to the mounting block. He did what every new horse does to it's new owner. Tried it on. I have had many new horses and was well aware that the fun and games would start at some stage. The horse just let himself down badly. He was walking and rode perfectly for the first couple of days. Nothing medically wrong with him.

Yours started napping when leaving the field. Is this any more than just trying it on and testing his new owner? That would be my interpretation of it.
He was underweight and you started feeding him, also gave him something with alfalfa in it then rode and expected a quiet little horse. No, he was starting to feel better and going to show it. Bit more energy.

He got hives, an allergic reaction bumps along his neck, tummy ad legs. I wouldn't be riding a horse with hives full stop. More important to find out why. If the hives were along his tummy did the girth impinge on one, even one you couldn't see. Were the hives making him very tetchy and so he was going to take it out on someone?

Several pages ago someone asked about crab flies? Has this been investigated. That is one of the first places I would start looking for the allergic reaction. We have crabs here. My horse got one last month. He is a very thin skinned part TB aged 15. He came straight at me to try and get it off him and chased me when I tried to get away. He was beyond any sort of reasoning and totally dangerous. Crab flies can affect some horses terribly.

I gather you started riding him, he was fine, got a bit nappy and you were very quiet with him. He didn't rear or do anything terrible. Was he just trying it on to see what the new owner would do very probably. Possibly if you had carried on like that you would both have worked your way through it. He would have carried on napping for a while and you would gently have persuaded him to give in. It would have worked out.

You got your yard pro to ride him. Was he harder? went in with the attitude when the horse stopped "right get a bliddy move on" and made him? So a horse that was gentle, sensitive and enjoying playing YOU up suddenly went to being a resentful horse when being made to go? lack of tact perhaps? Pro rode more strongly, horse really said "sod off" You rode and were just on the tail end of this when the horse reared. The horse may have history of being harshly ridden and remembered it.
Was this horse a rearer before this started or have hard feed, hives and a harsh approach caused the rear.

 

[Pinkvboots]

One of my horses has a strong napping sense, if ridden by a new strong rider his go to is run backwards and lift his front feet off the ground never a big rear, I ride him most of the time but I am quite a soft quiet rider his used to me and I know what upsets him and provokes that behaviour so I ride him sympathetically.

Prince has been shipped to a strange place where he knows no one, if he was a bit poor he would be lacking in energy so his probably feeling much better and stronger the pro probably put him under pressure that he wasn't happy with, it's quite a lot for a horse to cope with, cut out hard feed just feed hay and grass and see how you go.

 

[Emilieu]

You sound like a lovely person and a dedicated owner, I’m so sorry your horse owning life has started like this. Honestly, I would have a vet check him and unless there is something screamingly obviously wrong and easy to sort, I would send him straight to live at your cousin’s place. You know the saying about throwing good money after bad? I think trying to sort out all the possible things that might be wrong with poor Prince might very soon start to feel like that. I would write off the cost of purchase and start saving for a safe as houses horse for you and your children to enjoy. Regardless of what is found or not found you will never feel safe putting your child on him now, and cannot in good conscience allow him to be passed on to another family. Reading the thread I was thinking PTS (although knowing in my heart of hearts that I would be unable in real life to follow my own sensible advice!) but now that you mention your cousin could have him that seems ideal. Good luck.

 

[Chuffy99]

So from sympathising most of you are now trying to send the OP on a guilt trip, why are you trying to talk her into having expensive vet examinations for a horse she should NEVER get on again. The horse probably isn’t a rogue but she bought him in good faith albeit naively but he should be returned as he is not as described. Dodgy dealers rely on heartstrings.

 

[Keira 8888]

having read your comments on this thread and some of your earlier threads I am a bit astounded. A perfectly nice old horse has gone from lovely to possibly even kissing spines on this thread in 3 weeks.

Re your point about sending him back and your relation buying him for very little. If you send him back to a dealer he will sell him for the same amount you paid and then in a few weeks time we will have another new owner on here with identical problems about this particular horse. The dealer is not going to sell him for peanuts nor to retire him. For the double microchip our vet always scans the whole horse before chipping so perhaps they simply didn't find the first chip when they put the 2nd one in.

You seem to have gone in 3 weeks from having an older horse shipped over from Ireland where it seems to have been in other homes in relatively quick succession and now in yet another home, to the horse pulling back and getting loose when tied up, to you riding it calmly, to a lovely pic with your daughter of a lovely horse, to having an allergic reaction, to potential alfalfa problems, underweight and being fed, hives, doesn't want to come out of the field, naps, rears and whatever else I have missed.

On 4th July you wrote you rode and had a nice time now it is only 8 days later and this.

For heaven's sake slow down. This horse has had his entire life changed in a very short time. I got my latest new horse, also 16, last Christmas. He was great leading out the first day. Walked beautifully, 3 weeks later I could hardly get him to move under saddle and he wouldn't even lead 100 yards down the road to the mounting block. He did what every new horse does to it's new owner. Tried it on. I have had many new horses and was well aware that the fun and games would start at some stage. The horse just let himself down badly. He was walking and rode perfectly for the first couple of days. Nothing medically wrong with him.

Yours started napping when leaving the field. Is this any more than just trying it on and testing his new owner? That would be my interpretation of it.
He was underweight and you started feeding him, also gave him something with alfalfa in it then rode and expected a quiet little horse. No, he was starting to feel better and going to show it. Bit more energy.

He got hives, an allergic reaction bumps along his neck, tummy ad legs. I wouldn't be riding a horse with hives full stop. More important to find out why. If the hives were along his tummy did the girth impinge on one, even one you couldn't see. Were the hives making him very tetchy and so he was going to take it out on someone?

Several pages ago someone asked about crab flies? Has this been investigated. That is one of the first places I would start looking for the allergic reaction. We have crabs here. My horse got one last month. He is a very thin skinned part TB aged 15. He came straight at me to try and get it off him and chased me when I tried to get away. He was beyond any sort of reasoning and totally dangerous. Crab flies can affect some horses terribly.

I gather you started riding him, he was fine, got a bit nappy and you were very quiet with him. He didn't rear or do anything terrible. Was he just trying it on to see what the new owner would do very probably. Possibly if you had carried on like that you would both have worked your way through it. He would have carried on napping for a while and you would gently have persuaded him to give in. It would have worked out.

You got your yard pro to ride him. Was he harder? went in with the attitude when the horse stopped "right get a bliddy move on" and made him? So a horse that was gentle, sensitive and enjoying playing YOU up suddenly went to being a resentful horse when being made to go? lack of tact perhaps? Pro rode more strongly, horse really said "sod off" You rode and were just on the tail end of this when the horse reared. The horse may have history of being harshly ridden and remembered it.
Was this horse a rearer before this started or have hard feed, hives and a harsh approach caused the rear.

Well the thing is - it wasnt that he changed from being “a lovely old horse” to a monster. It was the fact that his reactions changed as we started to introduce new things. I didn’t ride him for quite a long time and took things very slowly. I often just sat with him in his field reading my book and watching him. People on the yard then worried that I wasn’t doing enough - especially based on him having the hard feed too which is why I started to introduce visits to the yard and riding. I did query whether he needed hard feed but more experienced people than me said he definitely needed building up.

I was prepared for the crab flies having researched them. He had a full fly mask from the beginning and I then introduced a fly rug and boots. I put sudocrem on his sheath and sensitive areas and this was very effective. He dealt with them very well after a while.
In terms of dealing with the hives - I got the vet straight out. He had a steroid shot, I researched feed and without the vet even picking up on it being a feed problem I identified that alfalfa could well be the culprit. I fenced off the oak tree in his field in case it was an oak allergy. The vet said that it didn’t look like a response to fly bites.

Now in terms of taking things slowly - if it were just me that I had to think of - I would have all the time and patience in the world.

But I have my daughter to think about and it ultimately comes down to a choice between her or Prince. I cannot take the chance that Prince will one day do this with her.
I have made many mistakes in this horse ownership journey. But I promise you, I have tried to do the right thing by Prince ever since he arrived in terms of his health and quickly reacting to changes in his behaviour.

You are right - a lot has changed in a very short space of time. But I don’t think I have exacerbated any of these changes with the decisions I have made. A more experienced person than myself suggested the HiFi and pasture cubes.
I am certainly guilty of buying unseen. But I do believe I have acted as diligently as possible since. X

 

[Mikas-mom]

I’ve Been following your progress with Prince since your first thread, so I’m really sorry to be reading this now
you’ve done you’re best for Prince but sadly this has shown that he’s quite obviously NOT the right horse for you and your daughter. As you and others have said, you have to put yours and your daughters safety first.
you Need to take a step back and look at this with your head rather than your heart.
if when you saw Prince advertised the ad had said that he could possibly rear, would you have even considered buying him? I’m guessing the answer would have been 10000% NO!
you were looking for a safe first horse Who you and your daughter could enjoy, so of course you wouldn’t have contemplated buying a horse that could possibly rear (not to mention all the other little niggles that you’ve had with him)
whilst keeping him and trying to ‘fix’ him may be what your heart is telling you, it’s a huge undertaking for the more experienced owner, let alone a first time novice, so I genuinely think you should really think about that before even contemplating it. As others have said it could We’ll be a very lengthy process with no great outcome.
as much as it may pain you, I think for YOU the best thing would be to send the horse back and get your refund, that can then go towards a nice safe hack that you and your daughter can enjoy, which at the end of the day is why you bought a horse in the first place.
as much as we’d all love to ’fix’ every broken horse we come across, it’s just not possible.
it will take a bit of time for you to get your heart in sync with your head, but returning him would be the best thing for YOU xx

 

[splashgirl45]

i agree keira, you made a mistake but have treated the horse with the best that you could. i think you should send him back as long as you get a full refund, and dont let go of him until you do.. it is easy for people not in your position to say they wouldnt send him back , and if money was no problem or you had your own place i am sure you would keep him as a field ornament...but life is not that simple for most of us... it may be worth finding out if he is an ex racer , not sure if you can find out from the microchip but worth a try before you let go of him ...hope all this can soon be sorted out and you can come to terms with it as you sound like a very caring person and i am sad that you have been duped this way

 

[planete]

The bottom line is that this horse rears in a dangerous manner when he deems it necessary for whatever reason. I am sure he has his reasons but it just makes him an unsuitable horse for a mother/daughter combination who are not professionals. A less reactive horse would plant, do half rears, buck a bit...not put his life and his rider's on the line. Ordinary riders should not be exposed to an animal that is too sensitive, sploit, dangerously quirky or in major pain. I am really sorry for you OP. You have been taken advantage of and now have a major problem on your hands. I am trying to put myself in your shoes but, being an old cynic, I am afraid I would take the refund and wash my hands of the whole mess. If you keep him at your cousin's, are you prepared for years of expenses beyond his grass keep? Even kept at grass, horses cost a lot in foot trimming, vaccinations, field accidents, winter feed, etc.. You are putting a millstone around your neck. If you start investigations and getting professionals involved, the sky will be the limit money wise. If you have him pts will you always wonder whether you did the right thing? Send him back, and if you feel you must, make discreet enquiries about the dealer's dodgy practices so there may be a chance of stopping them one day. You cannot be the only victim of these people.

 

[indie1282]

having read your comments on this thread and some of your earlier threads I am a bit astounded. A perfectly nice old horse has gone from lovely to possibly even kissing spines on this thread in 3 weeks.

Re your point about sending him back and your relation buying him for very little. If you send him back to a dealer he will sell him for the same amount you paid and then in a few weeks time we will have another new owner on here with identical problems about this particular horse. The dealer is not going to sell him for peanuts nor to retire him. For the double microchip our vet always scans the whole horse before chipping so perhaps they simply didn't find the first chip when they put the 2nd one in.

You seem to have gone in 3 weeks from having an older horse shipped over from Ireland where it seems to have been in other homes in relatively quick succession and now in yet another home, to the horse pulling back and getting loose when tied up, to you riding it calmly, to a lovely pic with your daughter of a lovely horse, to having an allergic reaction, to potential alfalfa problems, underweight and being fed, hives, doesn't want to come out of the field, naps, rears and whatever else I have missed.

On 4th July you wrote you rode and had a nice time now it is only 8 days later and this.

For heaven's sake slow down. This horse has had his entire life changed in a very short time. I got my latest new horse, also 16, last Christmas. He was great leading out the first day. Walked beautifully, 3 weeks later I could hardly get him to move under saddle and he wouldn't even lead 100 yards down the road to the mounting block. He did what every new horse does to it's new owner. Tried it on. I have had many new horses and was well aware that the fun and games would start at some stage. The horse just let himself down badly. He was walking and rode perfectly for the first couple of days. Nothing medically wrong with him.

Yours started napping when leaving the field. Is this any more than just trying it on and testing his new owner? That would be my interpretation of it.
He was underweight and you started feeding him, also gave him something with alfalfa in it then rode and expected a quiet little horse. No, he was starting to feel better and going to show it. Bit more energy.

He got hives, an allergic reaction bumps along his neck, tummy ad legs. I wouldn't be riding a horse with hives full stop. More important to find out why. If the hives were along his tummy did the girth impinge on one, even one you couldn't see. Were the hives making him very tetchy and so he was going to take it out on someone?

Several pages ago someone asked about crab flies? Has this been investigated. That is one of the first places I would start looking for the allergic reaction. We have crabs here. My horse got one last month. He is a very thin skinned part TB aged 15. He came straight at me to try and get it off him and chased me when I tried to get away. He was beyond any sort of reasoning and totally dangerous. Crab flies can affect some horses terribly.

I gather you started riding him, he was fine, got a bit nappy and you were very quiet with him. He didn't rear or do anything terrible. Was he just trying it on to see what the new owner would do very probably. Possibly if you had carried on like that you would both have worked your way through it. He would have carried on napping for a while and you would gently have persuaded him to give in. It would have worked out.

You got your yard pro to ride him. Was he harder? went in with the attitude when the horse stopped "right get a bliddy move on" and made him? So a horse that was gentle, sensitive and enjoying playing YOU up suddenly went to being a resentful horse when being made to go? lack of tact perhaps? Pro rode more strongly, horse really said "sod off" You rode and were just on the tail end of this when the horse reared. The horse may have history of being harshly ridden and remembered it.
Was this horse a rearer before this started or have hard feed, hives and a harsh approach caused the rear.

I agree with the above. Firstly if you think that the dealer is going to keep him and turn him out as a field ornament then you are dreaming I'm afraid. They will resell him to someone else for the full price.

I also think alot has happened in a very short space of time. The horse was poor when you bought him and you fed him up so now he is feeling better, he has had time off while you waited for a saddler I believe? Now he has hives and you are still trying to ride him?

If you like the horse and you want to keep him I would take him off all feed and just give him grass and hay, sort out the hives then turn him away for a month. Then I would either send him to a pro or get one to come out to you and see what they think.

I think having him pts is a bit extreme considering that this horse hasn't even been given a chance to have a proper work up.

I think that this is not the horse for you and in your shoes I would return him and get your refund.

Can I ask why you decided to buy a 16hh TB unseen from Ireland as your 1st horse?

 

[Gingerwitch]

Can you not agree with the dealer to refund half his value, then PTS the poor lad ? I mean this in the nicest way, I assume you paid 2500 for him, did this include shipping ? Keeping a horse on full livery is what 600 a month, so to do the right thing by Prince is either going to cost 2 months full livery or 4 months if they won't refund. For me personally I could not morally send him back and would take the hit just for my piece of mind.