New puppy will need surgery - where do we stand with the breeder?

I think perhaps you are just creating a lot of stress for yourself here. I do not think that the breeder is being unreasonable. It is unfortunate that you are going to have an unplanned expense here, but that could have happened anyway, e.g. an accident.

If the breeder will send you the amount equal to half of what her vet would charge then I think you should take that and move on and enjoy your puppy. Trying to get ‘revenge’ by reporting the breeder will not help anyone and will only feed your own stress.
 
I don’t know if I’ve read it differently to others but I thought the offer of half payment was only if the OP took the puppy to the breeder’s vet, not that she would pay that amount towards the cost of the operation at a different practice?
 
We were only told about the hernia after we’d paid - literally as he was being physically handed over, two days after she’d told us there was nothing wrong with him (which was after her vet check where the hernia had been noted). If he’d had an accident it would have been covered by his insurance - this is not.
 
Merry Moobli said:
I don’t know if I’ve read it differently to others but I thought the offer of half payment was only if the OP took the puppy to the breeder’s vet, not that she would pay that amount towards the cost of the operation at a different practice?
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It would be completely unreasonable of her to refuse to pay the same amount for any vet that did it. We are all assuming that will happen if requested.

ETA Though now the breeder has been riled that may no longer be an option.
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I think any vet who even suspects that a hernia is large enough for the bowel to drop through the abdominal wall, is likely to want to operate as quickly as possible, especially in a young active dog. When the bowel drops through the abdominal wall the blood supply can be cut off and there is a risk of peritonitis. I would get it done as quickly as possible.
If money is not an issue, I would get it repaired, screen shot messages, and get a written assessment from your vet went they do the op, and send it all to the KC, with any supporting information, and hope she at least gets a letter if she is on their recommended list.
I live in an expensive area for vets, and I am a good guestimates for the cost of treatment. The young dog I have has a retained tooth, the consulting vets off the top the head estimate, underestimated by a couple of hundred, for teeth and castration, as they do not do the billing. I wouldn't have it done four hours away, just because if there are any complications, it would be difficult for follow up and after care.
 
Yes the ‘choice’ is a) swap the puppy (not happening or b) drive him several hundred miles to get the surgery done by her vet - the costs getting there would pretty much negate any ‘saving’
 
Muddy unicorn said:
We were only told about the hernia after we’d paid - literally as he was being physically handed over, two days after she’d told us there was nothing wrong with him (which was after her vet check where the hernia had been noted). If he’d had an accident it would have been covered by his insurance - this is not.
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It doesn't matter when she told you as long as it was before you took ownership and after she told you the puppy was fine.

Morally it sounds shady but you really are going to have to put the morality aside if you want this matter closed.
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honetpot said:
I think any vet who even suspects that a hernia is large enough for the bowel to drop through the abdominal wall, is likely to want to operate as quickly as possible, especially in a young active dog. When the bowel drops through the abdominal wall the blood supply can be cut off and there is a risk of peritonitis. I would get it done as quickly as possible.
If money is not an issue, I would get it repaired, screen shot messages, and get a written assessment from your vet went they do the op, and send it all to the KC, with any supporting information, and hope she at least gets a letter if she is on their recommended list.
I live in an expensive area for vets, and I am a good guestimates for the cost of treatment. The young dog I have has a retained tooth, the consulting vets off the top the head estimate, underestimated by a couple of hundred, for teeth and castration, as they do not do the billing. I wouldn't have it done four hours away, just because if there are any complications, it would be difficult for follow up and after care.
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Our vet was really concerned about it - it’s definitely large enough for a loop of intestine to drop through so he’s having the surgery done in a couple of weeks once all his vaccinations are done.
I’m not particularly worried about the money - we are fortunately in the position where we can afford the surgery. Obviously I’d rather not have had to pay out an extra £600 on top of his purchase price but it’s not going to make a huge difference to our budget or affect our decision to get the surgery done ASAP. However, the breeder had no idea about our financial situation - she could well have sent off a puppy into a new home where they’d scraped together the cash to buy him and simply couldn’t afford an unexpected large bill - that is not a responsible attitude imo
 
Muddy unicorn said:
she could well have sent off a puppy into a new home where they’d scraped together the cash to buy him and simply couldn’t afford an unexpected large bill - that is not a responsible attitude imo
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She has offered a replacement, nobody would have been forced to face a large bill. I'd be careful how far you go with this, you are bordering on libeling her here. Probably wise if you never post pictures of him on the forum if he's a rare breed, or you will identify her.
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My advice would be to take the money she has offered and have the surgery done by vet of your choice. Personally I would maybe get a second opinion from another vet, just to ensure the surgery is really necessary. I don't think you have a case against the breeder, she told you about the hernia, and has offered a replacement, I suspect that will fulfil your puppy contract, what was the actual wording on it.

I actually had a not dissimilar experience with a pup I bred some years ago. At her first visit to the vet with her new owner, at 9 weeks old, the vet pulled her hind legs about and informed the new owner she had hip dysplasia and needed surgery. To keep it brief, after discussions between my vets , myself and new owner it was agreed to do nothing until bitch was old enough to hip score. If there was an issue I would give a refund, and the bitch would have surgery, which insurance would cover. Not surprisingly, given her breeding and how sound she was, the bitch had a good hip score, and I suspect the vet who "diagnosed" her is still smarting from the letters he received from both myself and the stud dog owner. He left the practice shortly after.
 
ycbm said:
It doesn't matter when she told you as long as it was before you took ownership and after she told you the puppy was fine.

Morally it sounds shady but you really are going to have to put the morality aside if you want this matter closed.
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But wasn't it after she had taken ownership? Ownership changes once money exchanges hands doesn't it? She paid and was only then told.
 
Muddy unicorn said:
Well I wanted to know what people thought the breeder should have done and whether or not we’d be within our rights to ask for a contribution towards the surgery. I wouldn’t expect her to give us the puppy for free
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In this earlier post you seemed to be just looking for a contribution to the surgery, which the breeder has offered. I do agree you need to be a little careful about possibly libelling the breeder, from the information you have given so far I have been able to narrow it down to just 9 breeders, and that's just with one search.

To add, I do think the breeder was wrong not to tell you about/show you the hernia before you collected the pup, did the report from her vet say it wasn't an issue?
 
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Dexter said:
But wasn't it after she had taken ownership? Ownership changes once money exchanges hands doesn't it? She paid and was only then told.
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For me, ownership is when the dog is registered in my name or in the case of a dog from Europe, when I have the pedigree and the owner (ETA and breeder) has signed the transfer box.
 
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Muddy unicorn said:
We were only told about the hernia after we’d paid - literally as he was being physically handed over, two days after she’d told us there was nothing wrong with him (which was after her vet check where the hernia had been noted). If he’d had an accident it would have been covered by his insurance - this is not.
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but you didn't say anything at that time whilst you had the chance. You could have refused the pup.

I think she is being pretty reasonable, I am surprised she has communicated with you and offered solutions. She has offered to replace the faulty item with a perfect one. I'm afraid emotion doesn't come into it.

The situation seems to be that you don't think it's fair and emotionally she has got you over a barrel, it is a long way to travel etc etc to her vet for the op. That is simply causing stress.

If you report her, try to blacken her name as a breeder she will have the come back of "I tried to help, my vet didn't even think there was a big problem but I offered to replace the pup anyway with a perfect one but this was refused."

Where do you think you are going to go with this? what ending can there be other that you take up one of her offers?

If you want to pursue her for more money then I would take the pup to a couple more vets for 2nd opinions and estimates of the costs.


Muddy unicorn said:
- she could well have sent off a puppy into a new home where they’d scraped together the cash to buy him and simply couldn’t afford an unexpected large bill - that is not a responsible attitude imo
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no it may not be a responsible attitude but it is nothing to do with this situation. Your problem is to get an accurate diagnosis for your pup and get the problem operated on with some funding from the breeder or return it for a perfect pup.
 
Equi said:
She told you of the hernia and you took the pup anyway. She’s offered a return and you refused. She offered to pay half with her vet you refused.

The puppy is now your responsibility. Get the op with your vet and move on.
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For me this,in a nutshell.
I think you made your choice when you took the pup and refused a switch .

.I’d do the op and move on and enjoy the years ahead with him.

If you pursue this after the delay,it will cost you more in physical costs and anguish,than to cut your losses and move on. I think the breeder was fair in the offers she made,but you refused those,so now you take your decision and move on with your beautiful little pup,who will be fine in your hands,
 
Pearlsasinger said:
It's not libel if it is the truth and you can prove that it is. OP has been very fair in explaining that the breeder offered an exchange or a shared cost op at her own vets. It isn't libel to say that she is unhappy with what she was offered by the breeder.
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But it is to suggest the breeder doesn't care whether the people she sells puppies to have the means to care for the animal, and the post was very close to that.
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Muddy unicorn said:
However, the breeder had no idea about our financial situation - she could well have sent off a puppy into a new home where they’d scraped together the cash to buy him and simply couldn’t afford an unexpected large bill - that is not a responsible attitude imo
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Wouldn't have been a responsible attitude to purchase a puppy that way. To what extent should a breeder "investigate" the potential new owner? I feel as though if the breeder asked about your financial situation you would've found that offensive too, if not, many likely would. I do think that breeders should screen new owners to some extent, likewise with owners screening breeders.

I would've tried to compromise and just tell the breeder how I felt re the traveling to her vet and/or a puppy exchange. I would've asked if she would contribute toward the operation with your vet. Perhaps the same amount she would've contributed if it were with her vet.

If not, and you don't have some sort of health guarantee/contract that is specifically worded, then that's that. You take her up on her offer(s) or you don't.
 
I'm sorry to be harsh but yes, you hand over money and you receive a product.
If people looked at it with these eyes, breeders wouldn't get away with so much and buyers wouldn't get so heartbroken.

The whole thing illustrates what a mess the breeding, buying and selling of animals in these islands can be.

I've thought some of my acquaintances hasty in moving dogs on or returning them, but their point is that it's better to do it when they are very young before they get too attached.
 
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Muddy unicorn said:
I’d hope we might have a decent case for the puppy being mis-sold as I have proof that she lied to us. In any case I’m going to contact the breed club for advice and it’s a very small world .
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To be honest I wouldn't even go there - unless you're happy to go through the small claims court and do all the work yourself I wouldn't even consider legal action. Lawyers cost a fortune and this doesn't sound clear cut, so I think you're on to a loser there. I assume the seller is now feeling defensive - she's offered what she considered to be reasonable and you've rejected her solutions, so she's upset and cross.
 
Muddy unicorn said:
I’d hope we might have a decent case for the puppy being mis-sold as I have proof that she lied to us. In any case I’m going to contact the breed club for advice and it’s a very small world .
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You haven't got a good case for mis selling as the breeder has offered mediation. You mention the breeder is prolific, assuming you did check the breeder is licensed before buying the puppy, you now need to contact the licensing authority and make a formal complaint to enable them to investigate all aspects with the potential to reduce the level of licence the breeder holds.
 
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