New trainer in action 7

Just for comparison this was brown boots first day with Armas. You can see here that he is BTV. Thus blaming the current rider for putting him BTV in fact in correct. Its a habit that needs to be changed.

[youtube]MmouLOTmaMw[/youtube]
 
I actually think the male trainer rode better and your horse was less behind the vertical. I am sorry that you seem to be getting upset :( but Rome was not built in a day, slow and steady progress is better then cat leap forwards with no foundations.

I agree the male trainer was better but sadly he lives in Spain :(
 
Point taken ester, i have SI issues myself so know the feeling :D

I suppose I have assumed that the people around the horse have an eye on it already ;) perhaps I've read more into the way questions have been phrased but all of these threads seem to turn into a ping pong of attack and defence in the end, so that's how questions start to read iyswim :)
 
Horse spends way less time behind the vertical with the Spanish trainer in the above video and he is working far more uphill and actually bringing his hocks underneath himself.
 
I actually think he looks better than the first video posted..


He's still BTV but doesn't seem as 'stiff' if that makes sense? He seems to be slowly becoming more relaxed in his work. Hope he continues to get better.
 
yup I understand milliepops :).

armas I do want to thank you for continuing to put the vids up, I have found the discussions fascinating particularly as I have a very different type of horse and I do enjoy reading what those who know much more than me on here think. So thanks :).
 
quietly followed these threads with interested. My last boy worked BTV quite a lot, never really truly got there as there is just no prescribed one size fits all solution. Hope you get there.

R
 
I suppose there's a bit of a divide as to whether you ultimately want to produce a back mover or a leg mover. I'm not taking anything away from BB, he achieved a lot with the horse in a short space of time, but in the final video he still wasn't secure in the contact or over the back. No surprises really, it takes a long time to get that really solid:). I actually think you can see the right hind problem from time to time then too, when the horse is tense, which is also when it shows most with this rider.

I think the new rider seems to be working more towards him becoming more of a back mover and he's showing some progress towards this. I would have thought that a horse with a known issue would benefit from this as a long term goal. I discussed the threads with my physio friend last night and she was of the same opinion:). (Opening a new can of worms possibly, as some people don't believe in physiotherapy but hey ho:cool:)
 
Just for comparison this was brown boots first day with Armas. You can see here that he is BTV. Thus blaming the current rider for putting him BTV in fact in correct. Its a habit that needs to be changed.

[youtube]MmouLOTmaMw[/youtube]

I actually really enjoyed watching this in comparison to the more recent videos. Armas doesn't look flustered, he looks challenged. It is clear that BB completely understood Armas. I actually thought he looks very playful with Armas here and Armas looks infinitely more comfortable, but I understand why BB can't be brought back in.

I use www.riaflex.co.uk. Would like her to be on Cortaflex but saving that for if the issue presents itself in the future and its strength isn't needed yet.
 
Just a side issue ;)

I use www.riaflex.co.uk. Would like her to be on Cortaflex but saving that for if the issue presents itself in the future and its strength isn't needed yet.

Billie, just wondering from what you've said above whether you've managed to get hold of the info about active ingredients in Cortaflex? :) I tried in the past and failed :(

Am a great believer in getting value for money and as I couldn't compare it with the other supplements that do publish the amount of each ingredient in, say, a daily dose, I wrote it off as too much of a mystery ;)
 
Just a side issue ;)



Billie, just wondering from what you've said above whether you've managed to get hold of the info about active ingredients in Cortaflex? :) I tried in the past and failed :(

Am a great believer in getting value for money and as I couldn't compare it with the other supplements that do publish the amount of each ingredient in, say, a daily dose, I wrote it off as too much of a mystery ;)

My experience of Cortaflex is purely anecdotal. All I know is that my very high mileage ex Masters horse was like a four year old on it at the age of 21, if he went without then we knew about it. Mare's issue doesn't currently warrant the cost and she is doing really well on Riaflex. I started it when the work started though so I couldn't tell you if she could do without it. I Daren't stop giving it :)
 
Just a side issue ;)



Billie, just wondering from what you've said above whether you've managed to get hold of the info about active ingredients in Cortaflex? :) I tried in the past and failed :(

Am a great believer in getting value for money and as I couldn't compare it with the other supplements that do publish the amount of each ingredient in, say, a daily dose, I wrote it off as too much of a mystery ;)

I'm not sure if this is the info you require but it does break down how much of everything is in the bottle on our website over here http://www.cortaflex.com/coso.html You have to click on the link at the bottom 'ingredients panel'. You could probably work out how much is in each serving.
 
Just for comparison this was brown boots first day with Armas. You can see here that he is BTV. Thus blaming the current rider for putting him BTV in fact in correct. Its a habit that needs to be changed.

[youtube]MmouLOTmaMw[/youtube]

he looks far much relaxed in this what he looks like in this is better than your cureent trainers 7th? attempt.

please ring the other trainer you had before in this video and agree on a price before it's too late.
 
There is a definite improvement in some aspects of the video, however, Armas is still btv as much as he was in day one. I far prefer the male rider, and believe the style of riding he employs is far more suited to armas, agreeing with others, he is far less btv, and being challenged in a way that seems far more suitable to Armas.

I do believe that this change has confused Armas, and that whilst she is not a bad rider per say, she and armas just do not seem to 'get' each other.

The one thing I keep coming back to in my mind, is that you have a wonderful, dude of a horse, we used to see pictures of your hacks, jumping videos... Real fun stuff, in my opinion if a horse is doing work such as this in the school on such an intensive/regular basis, they become less focused and willing to learn. Many hot horses I have ridden, work best from a couple of sessions a week, and the rest hacking/jumping fun, it enables them to unwind, and digest their lessons, they are then in a better frame of mind for the next lesson.

The other thing that really keeps hitting me, is you own this beautiful horse, but you are not the one riding him and enjoying him, yep he may have a 2 hr hack once a week, but that's nothing really, where are you getting the quality time with your horse.

I know you are passionate about training him to a high level in this area, were he mine, bearing in mind that this training style doesn't seem as suited to him, plus you would not want to swap trainers now and confuse him further, if it were me I would do the following: I'd give him the summer off from schooling, I'd spend my time hacking him out, lots of proper hacks, power walk and trots, hill work, this will keep him built up nicely and strengthen the muscles. I'd let his nose poke out on a loose rein on those hacks, stretching out, I'd get him a good regular chiro or massage focusing on the neck and poll, I'd spend the summer researching into a good local classically trained rider who could start riding once or twice a week, or one that was even a bit further away that I could box my horse to for 2 sessions a week, I would ensure that the rest of the time, he hacked, giving myself the enjoyment of him, him the time to do fun stuff like hacking and giving his brain a rest. I'm certain you've heard the term, work hard, play hard - well at the moment this is all work hard for armas, and I often find they learn far faster with just a couple of sessions than being expected to do this day in day out, it's hard, mentally and physically, they become narky and bored and they don't focus or process nearly as well as when they are given a good rounded routine.

In my opinion, if armas is evading by going btv, then he is not enjoying it, and he is therefore not in a willing frame of mind. Or let me rephrase that, he is not in as willing a frame of mind as he could be, if he were enjoying it more, less intensity, less Groundhog Day, more fun hacks and pokey out noses, and a classically trained rider more in tune with him and I really think that his schooling and his frame of mind in the school would benefit :)
 
I am interested in your views which trainer would you of opted for. You have to pick one. No sitting on the fence.
I tried out the current trainer and this chap. He is a Portuguese trainer and national Iberian champion of France.
I chose the girl as I felt she was softer and less confrontational.
Sorry its a bit dark at times.

[youtube]BeCbn4m6BQs[/youtube]
 
Great post Queenbee and exactly what I think too. I fear you are wasting your breath though. I simply cannot see what this rider is doing for Armas. BB knows this breed, he rode Armas very well and got a tune from him, yes even at the very beginning. He was sympathetic and rewarded Armas a LOT, unlike this girl, but he was clear about what he wanted from Armas and Armas thrived with him as time went on. Such a shame a price can't be agreed on to have BB back.
 
I chose the girl as I felt she was softer and less confrontational.

Okay I haven't watched the video yet, will do in a minute, but I couldn't let this ride. Maybe you are seeing something different but this ^^^ is EXACTLY the opposite to what I see, and is the reason I would get rid of the girl like yesterday, because I think she is mega confrontational with Armas. I can't be the only one to see it can I?
 
Well I can't wait to hear what Cortez's opinion on this man is because although I know nothing about anything to me I much prefer him to her. Yes he is having confrontations but to me its because he has the measure of Armas and Armas isn't getting away with his tricks. He is much less btv isn't he?!

To me the girl is constantly arguing with Armas and not necessarily in a productive way.

But I have a QH, the polar opposite to him, so what do I know ;)

I didn't like BB to begin with but I realised I was wrong. This guy reminds me of BB.
 
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James - when you say less confrontational what do you mean? She doesn't necessarily 'fight' Armas, but she is hard. Rigid in her body, strong with her seat and legs... Compare that to BB, who has got the best out of Armas so far, and see that he is strong in his core, quiet with his legs, much more fluid with his hands and torso. BB rode Armas with an energetic bounch while the girl seems to bunch him together and try to hold him up. Quite the opposite to the girl. I can't watch the vid as on my phone, but I will look forward to watching it tomorrow.
 
Well I can't wait to hear what Cortez's opinion on this man is because although I know nothing about anything to me I much prefer him to her. Yes he is having confrontations but to me its because he has the measure of Armas and Armas isn't getting away with his tricks. He is much less btv isn't he?!

To me the girl is constantly arguing with Armas and not necessarily in a productive way.

But I have a QH, the polar opposite to him, so what do I know ;)

I didn't like BB to begin with but I realised I was wrong. This guy reminds me of BB.
James already knows what I think of the two trainers: I voted for the gentleman, not the lady.
 
I am interested in your views which trainer would you of opted for. You have to pick one. No sitting on the fence.
I tried out the current trainer and this chap. He is a Portuguese trainer and national Iberian champion of France.
I chose the girl as I felt she was softer and less confrontational.
Sorry its a bit dark at times.

[youtube]BeCbn4m6BQs[/youtube]


Ok, you're really not going to like this I'm sorry :( as a caveat I've only watched the first 5 minutes, I am going to go back now and watch it in its entirety, so will post after that, but so far in the first few minutes i prefer this rider, its not about challenging or asking questions, its about challenging and asking those questions in the right way and at the right level... Armas looks a bit narked, you know why? Because he is being competently challenged on his evasion and not allowed to get away with it, he is hardly behind the vertical at all in comparison to his current trainer. He is being worked at a pace that suits him better, and the way he is being challenged is effective in tackling the issue of btv. He looks tense, but that's because he is narked he can't get away with his evasion tactic, as he became more accepting of that he would soften and relax. Going back to watch there rest now, because I found the debate between rider and horse in this video... Captivating.
 
This guy reminds me of BB.

Me too.:) And he gets a similar way of going to BB. :) That's the difference between the 2 really, something I said earlier about leg moving/back moving.
Both BB and this one also have an intermittent contact which some people seem to be favouring. I've not found an intermittent contact to be that inviting to a horse that is trying to dodge it in the past, but hey, different strokes & all that.

I'm fairly amazed though that no one is mentioning the bouncing up and down in this video, and that at times the rider appears to have a very strong hold esp in the right rein (IIRC ;)) given quite how much the french woman is being ripped apart :(

I've said all this to J already, and I'm not saying this guy is *wrong* either, it's just different, again;).
 
I'm not keen on the alternative rider. I don't know what I think about the current rider - I keep changing my mind. So in your position I don't know who I would of chosen - possibly would have kept looking, though i know that is easier said than done.
 
Very different style and again interesting to watch.

I think what I see when I watch the chap is that he asks armas for something and if armas gets it wrong he makes it very clear to him, corrects him and then when he gets it right rewards him by releasing the contact/letting him go forwards and the argument (or more correctly Armas' tantrum ;) ) seems to be forgotten.

I suppose the whole thing seems more black and white.

I would choose the bloke because I think when he gets armas going well it is much better than what the girl gets even if it gets a bit ugly inbetween. (though I don't think he is being confrontational just clear on what he wants and making sure he gets it especially when it isn't a huge ask- like asking armas to take on a bull or something ;) )
 
James already knows what I think of the two trainers: I voted for the gentleman, not the lady.

Ah well!:rolleyes:

He's the man for the job if that's the choice. I couldn't even really say why but I couldn't watch the girl ride, it was boring and repetitive. I watched the whole vid of that guy riding, its totally different - no comparison James!

Probably she will get him where you want (or you think you want?) but his spirit will be gone at the end. That guy will keep the fire I reckon.

(Slopes back off to low head carriage, big bummed, down hill other end of the spectrum horse where I belong ;))
 
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