New trainer in action.....

Doriangrey thank you for posting that was most interesting. Today we did another session I will endeavour to load it up shortly for those of you that are interested.
I will however start a new thread so it does not get lost and is easy to find.

Again those of you that have taken the time to comment at length I thank you some real food for thought in this thread.
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Thank you Dorian!!!!! Absolutely love Science Of Motion!

Terri
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Hi Terri, considering how many horses you have ridden and trained I think that it's pretty amazing that you are willing to embrace a way of training that really goes against the grain at the moment and for the sake of your horse - speaks volumes really :)
 
Thanks Dorian. Most of my work was racehorses though. However if you're doing your job right as an exercise rider you will know that each horse had a way of going that was most comfortable for them and you worked with what you had. Any horse that went in a so called stretchy long and low position or over bent was encouraged to use their back and hind end by raising their head and neck to a more level position. It's so easy to feel correct movement in this way. And yet on here I've heard it metioned ex racers are more suspect to get KS than others. Yes I would agree. Being ridden in gadgets and having to accept long and low is completely foreign to them. Instead of workinh on rythym and consistency until they get the hang of their new job. They may have a stronger back and hind end than you think.

My mare does not do things that make her uncomfortable. She has had all sorts of checks and it was basically put down to behavoir, but why? This is a mare that will do anything for you and never lets you down facing any fence. So I had to figure out for her sake why she was unhappy. Not always veterinary. Being asked to go in an uncomfortable way is enough. Those who don't rebel keep on going til they're broke.

Terri
 
_GG_ said:
Thank you DorianGrey,

That is so interesting to read. Would be interesting to know more about how the author does or doesn't stretch horses.

Me personally, as said a few times in just this thread already think if you just listen to the horse enough, he will tell you where he is most relaxed and comfortable.
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^^ This, always interesting to read different sources. I would also be interested in what he actually advocates, rather than just what they don't agree with. I guess you have to buy the dvds or go on a course:confused: Since the bottom of the page on their website says

We are willing to explain a little further if you want to know more about the horse’s functional anatomy as advanced research study explain it today. Anyone interested to understand how neck alignment affects or helps the horse is welcome. We have created a course which provides advanced understanding of equine functional anatomy and how to apply new knowledge. Instead, if you think about lowering of the neck as a cult that should not be question and therefore are going to argue base on a horse’s anatomy that does not exist, we are not going to respond because we will not be talking about the same creature. We will simply push the delete button.
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:(

It's an interesting subject but I did find that a slightly tricky read without any diagrams :eek: Would also be interested to hear what people think of the explanations on the Sustainable Dressage website as I find them so clear
http://www.sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/behind_the_vertical.php

I do think we are in danger of accidentally getting into 2 camps here though, one 'for' 'long & low' and one against... I probably contributed to that by mistake because to me the key thing I really wanted to see with the horse was more of a reach into the contact whether that is poll level with withers, above or below, with a little more open-ness at the throat.

I suppose I've always used the feeling I get with forward-down-out with my own horse as a mental shorthand for the same relaxation in the jaw/throat, as her immediate response to contact was similar to Armas - to shorten the neck, curl up and scoot along. For her, the long neck and relaxed throat are so closely linked that I've mentally lumped them together. Sorry!:o
 
milliepops said:
OMG I must stop looking at this thread but it's just so interesting :D Can't get any blooming work done:rolleyes:



A couple of people have picked up on this ^^. I seem to remember a discussion (maybe on here, possibly on the BD forum) about how different countries rise on different diagonals. Out of interest, perhaps someone who has ridden/trained abroad can confirm? Either way, in the grand scheme of things it's not really the most significant issue for me in this case ;)




Get what you are saying and I suppose I was making more of a general point rather than condoning pushing a horse out of its rhythm. Plus while reading through a few posts like this one below stuck out at me, and I suppose are a key example of Kerilli pointing out how we all have different understandings of the same words/concepts depending on our own experiences:



My own training and experience has been that a horse poking its nose into the sky can't swing through the back, and so taken with a lot of (perhaps misconstrued on my part then;)) 'slow down' posts... a horse going overly slowly with its nose poking will never become soft and supple, just more resistant and hollow. That's the baggage I bring to the thread based on the horses I've ridden ;) hence the importance I place on forwardness:)

So much easier to get on and feel than try to put it into words, isn't it! :p
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Completely understand you, I think Ben is a prime example of what we are discussing, if you try to slow him or contain him, he becomes a slug and does not work correctly, his neck is actually a nice shape but he drags his toes and feels awful and lumpy, now if you push him fast, his you have speed, no elevation, flattened out horse, and pokey out nose, it is about working out the optimum amount that you can ask for the individual horse. if ben is sluggish, I ask with my leg then click, and flick as a back up should he need it, we will get more speed and impulsion but won't push him to a limit where it will not really benefit him, and we keep it short... more of a wake the hell up call than anything! I will often after waking him up like this, then ask for 6 strides of walk, six of trot, six of walk and so on, with halts interspersed and the odd couple of steps of rein back... Within a very short period of time it feels like my boy has springs, he is responsive, forward, and oozing that contained energy and putting it to good use... When I transition from walk to trot his carriage remains light, soft supple and rounded, and he kind of bounces/skips upwards into trot, I feel that I would far rather do six strides of walk, followed by six strides of a damn good trot and then bring him back to walk before he fluffs it, occasionally, when he is focused, i will stretch out the trot, doubling the count before coming back to walk... the alternative asking for circuits of not good trot repeatedly, just doesn't make sense to me, nothing wrong with pushing them forward for a purpose, or even pushing them out of their comfort zone once in a while for short periods (again with a specific goal) but I simply can't see what that purpose would be in the case of armas especially since it goes on for such a lengthy period. However, it may well develop into a good partnership yet... We will have to see :D
 
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