No silly prices

[Starzaan]

In 2016 we paid £47k for an unbacked 2yr old who had potential.
Definitely not unfair of us, the people with the wallet could afford that easily, and this is now the best horse in their string. It was fun purchasing a horse of that calibre with someone else’s money haha.

Horses have been horrifically underpriced for years, I think it’s fantastic that people are finally getting the money their horses are worth.

Sure, some horses may be priced at higher than they’re genuinely worth, but horses are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. I paid £18k for one of mine, as a 5yr old with no competition experience. I had the money, fell head over heels for him the moment my bum hit the saddle, and he was everything I was looking for after losing my horse of a lifetime. To me, he was worth that ten times over, and I have since been offered three times that to part with him, but he’s never going anywhere.

I fail to see how it is ‘unfair’ of people to maximise their return on a horse they have ploughed money into. Is it also unfair that I charge over £2kpcm at the top end of my livery packages?

 

[Glitter's fun]

I think "no silly prices" is just meant to mean "I'm not gullible".
Some adverts are so full of meaningless phrases that you have to work hard to sift out the bits that actually tell you something. I've started scrolling past any that include "stamp".

 

[blitznbobs]

I just paid a not insubstantial 5 figure sum on a foal -- some will say that's a silly price --I think I got a bargain... but who knows?

 

[SEL]

It was probably 25 years ago I was offered a nice cob with a decent jump for £2k. You could have picked him up for the same price about 5 years ago. Prices were going to have to go up at some point, it's just been a bit of a sudden leap that's taken people by surprise. He'd be £8-10k today and actually over 25 years is that such a big rise??

 

[humblepie]

Horse I bought about 25 years ago was advertised in the small ads in H & H as a bargain. Now I sort of knew the people selling him - not the owners but he was for sale by the yard he was kept at - so i rang and said what is your idea of a bargain, I only have x to spend and was upfront about my budget which was small. They said worth going to see him at that sort of figure and that he would suit me and they were right.

 

[McFluff]

It was probably 25 years ago I was offered a nice cob with a decent jump for £2k. You could have picked him up for the same price about 5 years ago. Prices were going to have to go up at some point, it's just been a bit of a sudden leap that's taken people by surprise. He'd be £8-10k today and actually over 25 years is that such a big rise??

Totally agree with this. When I returned to horses after a 20 year break I was shocked to find that the prices really hadn't changed. As an example, my friend sold her lovely mare - perfect height, age, competition record etc. the real sort that I see threads on here on a very regular basis looking for - for £6K. This was in 1990. The threads today, people are offended that they can't get that for £6-8K.
I think it is right that people get the best price for their horse - particularly if it is a good quality horse produced well. I do have an issue with those that are unscrupulous in selling (e.g. mask lameness, misrepresent a horse), but that element and risk is always there - hence the phrase 'buyer beware'. I don't think that 'no silly prices' will protect you - having personal experience and using professional help might (but you can never totally mitigate the risk).
I'm another who doesn't get the 'no silly prices' phrase. If I was looking to sell something and checking out wanted ads, I would scroll past such an advert. I too feel it is passive/aggressive, but then I have always been brutally honest when I have sold stuff (I have never sold a horse and hope never to have to, but have sold lots of kit) and research the market value before pricing, so perhaps that is why I find it an odd phrase that would make me avoid someone. But we are all different, so maybe it works for some people.

 

[Smoky 2022]

I think no silly prices is a stupid saying. Horse are serious underpriced in uk the Covid prices just brought them up to the correct price. USA , Canada and most of Europe they are actually considered Covid prices in uk are there average horse prices over there. Horses have been way to cheap in the uk and truthfully if you can’t afford to pay a asking price you can’t afford a horse at all. To many people in the uk have horses they can’t afford and the horses suffer so if it kicks some people out of the market it’s a good thing.

 

[J&S]

To many people in the uk have horses they can’t afford and the horses suffer so if it kicks some people out of the market it’s a good thing.

So you would rather see the type of person who has "all the gear but no idea" being owners rather than less well heeled but genuinely talented /caring/educated person?

 

[Birker2020]

I still can't get over how many people would be happy to part with 21K for a 16hh with one eye that's only been backed a year with no record and no decent breeding but with potential...... potential in the sellers eyes not the buyers I might add...

but I don't think there's anything further I can add so I'm out

 

[misst]

But lots of people do have that sort of money Birker (not me). I live in Surrey and house prices here are crazy compared to the NE but is that unfair or just what people can/will pay for what they want. People round here chose to live here and pay the prices. it is not unfair it is life - same with horses.

 

[Birker2020]

But lots of people do have that sort of money Birker (not me). I live in Surrey and house prices here are crazy compared to the NE but is that unfair or just what people can/will pay for what they want. People round here chose to live here and pay the prices. it is not unfair it is life - same with horses.

Well I guess they have more money that sense. Lucky sods lol

 

[Mrs_P]

I still can't get over how many people would be happy to part with 21K for a 16hh with one eye that's only been backed a year with no record and no decent breeding but with potential...... potential in the sellers eyes not the buyers I might add...

but I don't think there's anything further I can add so I'm out

It's not about whether we personally would pay that for the horse. There is no guarantee that anyone would pay that for it, but the seller is free to advertise it for whatever they wish and if someone is prepared to pay that amount for it, then you can not blame the seller or call it a "silly price" as it was clearly worth that to someone.

 

[Caol Ila]

That Dallas mare I posted about got sold. Astoundingly. I thought £3700 was a very silly price for an unhandled feral pony, circa ten years old (though dealer said she was seven, and not a feral ), but there we are. Someone paid it. Guess it wasn't silly from the point of view of the dealer.

 

[EllenJay]

I still can't get over how many people would be happy to part with 21K for a 16hh with one eye that's only been backed a year with no record and no decent breeding but with potential...... potential in the sellers eyes not the buyers I might add...

But has that horse sold? I don't think anyone on here has said that they would buy that horse - but it is the sellers choice to advertise it for what ever they want - doesn't mean that someone "HAS" to buy it

 

[honetpot]

Its unfair

Selling anything could be classed as unfair, as the value of the item is always valued by the person selling it, and that may depend on who is selling, it, how well the item is presented for sale, and how good they are at persuading the potential buyer it is worth what they are asking. If you take most cosmetics the base ingredients cost pennies, the most costly part is the marketing and packaging.
Even at auction you only need two people who want the same animal, the price runs up, and you leave the ring thinking, what did I miss.
I buy youngsters, and they are often in the wrong home, of being sold to the wrong market, the not quite M&M, WHP, SH ,often will sell for more money, if marketed at the right market, right tack and right setting. For some buyers you have to dress the set, they are buying the picture in front of them, and not thinking what can I make of this. If you want the prefect picture, and someone is thinks that their animal fits that demand, they are going to try and sell it as such, its really up to the buyer so see past the sales pitch. The seller may be deluded, they may have to reduce the price, but I do not think its unfair asking what you think your animal is worth.
I think this is the first time in my life with horses, a foal may make what it costs to get to three years, and that is hopefully if it remains sound and healthy, but the foals produced next year may not. 'fools breed horses so that wise men can ride' because for most small scale breeders the costs involved mean, it's a money pit. I spent £1500, on AI on a proven brood mare, and lost the mare in foal, I couldn't justify spending the money to replace her, even though I had a NFFR contract. I think actually expecting a seller to sell something at less than its production costs is perhaps, 'unfair', but that is what has been expected for as long as I can remember.

 

[maya2008]

But has that horse sold? I don't think anyone on here has said that they would buy that horse - but it is the sellers choice to advertise it for what ever they want - doesn't mean that someone "HAS" to buy it

I once rode a horse with one eye who was beyond amazing. Highest I have ever jumped, looked after my slightly nervous self, gave me confidence and over 1m30 without blinking we went! Total angel of a horse, proper schoolmaster (and apparently always had been). Having one eye doesn’t necessarily stop a horse!!

 

[DirectorFury]

When I see "no silly prices" in a wanted advert I mentally code it to "I want you, the seller, to subsidise my hobby and take below market price because I think I'm entitled to not pay the going rate".

I still can't get over how many people would be happy to part with 21K for a 16hh with one eye that's only been backed a year with no record and no decent breeding but with potential...... potential in the sellers eyes not the buyers I might add...

but I don't think there's anything further I can add so I'm out

I still can't get over how many people would be happy to part with £1 million for a tiny flat in central London with no outside space but with convenient transport links...according to the estate agent.

People pay it though - market forces and all that.

It's not even a question of more money than sense; if I want item x and the current market price is £y I can either a) buy x now at £y, b) wait until the price of x becomes more palatable to me, or c) compromise and buy item z. To some people £21k is sod-all and they earn that every 3 months as part of their bonus structure. To other people, it's 2 years of wages and akin to travelling to the moon. It doesn't mean that the more well-off person has no sense, it just means that they place a different intrinsic value on that amount of money because it's a smaller percentage of the money they have coming into their pocket.

I find calling horse prices "unfair" pretty odd to be honest, horses aren't essential (unlike housing, food, energy, transport etc) and horse ownership is an active choice. It's not like you're being forced to pay £xx for a horse otherwise there will be a massive adverse impact on your life. It's a choice and a luxury choice at that.

 

[ihatework]

I still can't get over how many people would be happy to part with 21K for a 16hh with one eye that's only been backed a year with no record and no decent breeding but with potential...... potential in the sellers eyes not the buyers I might add...

but I don't think there's anything further I can add so I'm out

Not one person on here has said they would buy that particular horse.

No one can assess the horse from the short paragraph you have written.

If it were a mega talented young horse that would normally attract a 50k price tag and you could get it for 20k, it could be a bargain. If it were a blind dobbin then it’s silly money and won’t sell - no skin off your nose you don’t want it any way.

I wouldn’t give 1k for the middle aged gelding going around 90’s - because quite frankly I don’t want a boring mediocre allrounder gelding. But having it advertised high teens I would accept is not worth it to me, but could be a bargain to someone else. I’d much rather a talented young mare, even if blind in one eye, than a dull unathletic gelding.

This is why you are getting frustrated. You are making things about what you value and are worth to you.

 

[Dexter]

No its not. It can be the same thing. Its unfair that people are trying to take advantage by selling well over the odds for a horse that clearly isn't worth that just because they can and because the market dictates that people are trampling each other in an effort to obtain an animal, often for ridiculous amounts of money, clearly what the horse is NOT worth. Some people have scruples others are just out to exploit others for what they can get. As the examples on my reply No.8

Hand on heart can you honestly say a 6 year old mare of no noted breeding that's only been backed a year, that has no record whatsover, but has 'potential' is worth £21K??? Come off it.

So when yours was sent to sales livery were you going to ask meat money for him? Pre covid a big horse with soundness issues that is capable of decking people badly enough that your average rider wont get on again, would have been the sort of thing people get offered for a token sum.

No you werent, he went to sales livery so you could maximise your return on him. There is absolutely no shame at all in doing that, it is exactly what I would have done. But it might be interesting to think about that in the context of your posts on this thread

 

[hock]

First class home is code for “no dealers” when you don’t want to write in an advert no dealers. I’d buy from a dealer never sell to one.

 

[Birker2020]

...

 

[Birker2020]

So when yours was sent to sales livery were you going to ask meat money for him? Pre covid a big horse with soundness issues that is capable of decking people badly enough that your average rider wont get on again, would have been the sort of thing people get offered for a token sum.

No you werent, he went to sales livery so you could maximise your return on him. There is absolutely no shame at all in doing that, it is exactly what I would have done. But it might be interesting to think about that in the context of your posts on this thread

He's only decked me and that was because he was uncomfortable prior to treatment and I've decided against sales livery because i couldn't live with myself forever wondering where a horse with such little value would end up, being passed from pillar to post and i was told I'd only get a third of what I'd paid for him, i naively thought if he was worth more he'd find a better home and i got pushed into the sales livery route. Not everyone would be prepared to put the time and finaces trying to make a horse comfortable. But some of us don't care about financial reward or maximising our return.

His happiness will always come before my own and as much as i long for a horse to ride he will be retired if it doesn't work with a rider this time round as i feel it is not his fault he is broken and i love the bones of him and i can still visit him and have him in my life.

The cost of horses will go down, it has started to already. And one day i will be confortable financially and will have another one, maybe two.

 

[spacefaer]

The cost of horses will go down, it has started to already. And one day i will be confortable financially and will have another one, maybe two.

I would say the price of average horses will come down, the price of good horses will remain at their current realistic rates, while the cost of horses is ever increasing (ref a million threads on this forum!)

 

[Annagain]

So when yours was sent to sales livery were you going to ask meat money for him? Pre covid a big horse with soundness issues that is capable of decking people badly enough that your average rider wont get on again, would have been the sort of thing people get offered for a token sum.

No you werent, he went to sales livery so you could maximise your return on him. There is absolutely no shame at all in doing that, it is exactly what I would have done. But it might be interesting to think about that in the context of your posts on this thread

That's a little unfair. Birker2020 and I were in the same boat, both with horses with physical issues that meant their value was reduced. We couldn't keep them, for various reasons but still loved them dearly, wanted the best home for them and recognised that would be best achieved by sales livery. By the time I sold Charlie - for little over 1/2 what I paid for him 2 years earlier, he had cost me £2000 in livery. I could probably have sold him from the field as a project for more than I ended up with after paying livery and commission but I wanted to make sure he was thoroughly tested out to make sure he was comfortable with that level of work (hence him being at schooling livery for 6 weeks before he went on sales livery) and that he went to the right home. I know that was what Birker was trying to do too but unfortunately it hasn't worked out so well for her.

 

[chaps89]

To me, no silly prices always seems to come at the end of a FB wanted ad which describes a unicorn.
(usually approx 16hh 6-10 years old, no tbs or cobs, no greys or coloureds, ideally a gelding. Must hack alone and in company, be safe enough to put granny on but go out and win at RC at the weekend) which in the current market can and does command a strong value, and so I assume the person buying doesn’t consider that and thinks £15k for a general all rounder is silly, instead of an accurate reflection of the type of horse they’re after in the current market, especially when their budget is £3500 (which admittedly 3 years ago would have given you a few of these types of horses to look at)
Sorry that’s one horrendous long sentence!

 

[Pippity]

To me, no silly prices always seems to come at the end of a FB wanted ad which describes a unicorn.
(usually approx 16hh 6-10 years old, no tbs or cobs, no greys or coloureds, ideally a gelding. Must hack alone and in company, be safe enough to put granny on but go out and win at RC at the weekend) which in the current market can and does command a strong value, and so I assume the person buying doesn’t consider that and thinks £15k for a general all rounder is silly, instead of an accurate reflection of the type of horse they’re after in the current market, especially when their budget is £3500 (which admittedly 3 years ago would have given you a few of these types of horses to look at)
Sorry that’s one horrendous long sentence!

Agreed!

How often have we seen posts even on here (where people are generally a bit more clueful than the "OMG We Love ARe Horsey Angles" group on FB) along the lines of, "I just want something around 16hh, 7-10yo, sound, sane, nice to hack, able to do a bit of RC competition. I don't want a world-beater. Why is it so hard to find???"

The answer is because a) that's what so many people are looking for, and b) that sort of horse is made, not born. And they're often made by owners who bought them when they couldn't do any of that, and have no intention of passing on their hard work. And certainly not for £3.5k.

 

[Annagain]

Agreed!

How often have we seen posts even on here (where people are generally a bit more clueful than the "OMG We Love ARe Horsey Angles" group on FB) along the lines of, "I just want something around 16hh, 7-10yo, sound, sane, nice to hack, able to do a bit of RC competition. I don't want a world-beater. Why is it so hard to find???"

The answer is because a) that's what so many people are looking for, and b) that sort of horse is made, not born. And they're often made by owners who bought them when they couldn't do any of that, and have no intention of passing on their hard work. And certainly not for £3.5k.

And this is exactly why I've just bought a (very low mileage with impeccable vet history)14yr old rather than the 8-10 year old I would have liked in an ideal world. And even though it's only day 4 it's 100% the right thing for me to have done.

 

[Lois Lame]

To me, no silly prices always seems to come at the end of a FB wanted ad which describes a unicorn.
(usually approx 16hh 6-10 years old, no tbs or cobs, no greys or coloureds, ideally a gelding. Must hack alone and in company, be safe enough to put granny on but go out and win at RC at the weekend) which in the current market can and does command a strong value, and so I assume the person buying doesn’t consider that and thinks £15k for a general all rounder is silly, instead of an accurate reflection of the type of horse they’re after in the current market, especially when their budget is £3500 (which admittedly 3 years ago would have given you a few of these types of horses to look at)
Sorry that’s one horrendous long sentence!

But It was a fun read

 

[Lois Lame]

How often have we seen posts even on here (where people are generally a bit more clueful than the "OMG We Love ARe Horsey Angles" group on FB) along the lines of, "I just want something around 16hh, 7-10yo, sound, sane, nice to hack, able to do a bit of RC competition. I don't want a world-beater. Why is it so hard to find???"

The answer is because a) that's what so many people are looking for, and b) that sort of horse is made, not born. And they're often made by owners who bought them when they couldn't do any of that, and have no intention of passing on their hard work. And certainly not for £3.5k.

Is that the case, though? To an extent, (or even a big extent) isn't that sort of horse also born? I mean, not the hard work that's gone into it, obviously, but the raw material that is present to work on - temperament.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I think (as someone who is permanently skint!!) that the Horse world is still 30 years behind the rest of the world in terms of rising prices.
When I came back to horses after a long break I was shocked to discover that livery/riding school/actual horse etc prices had barely altered.
We've been lucky. Now it's catching up, and with the state of equine welfare as it was/is in the UK, I'm glad to see it. I'll never be able to pay 5k for a horse, let alone some of the prices quoted here....that doesn't mean I think it's unfair...I can't afford a Ford Mustang GT500 either so have to make do with a Ford Galaxy instead ??
We have to compromise, that's all there is to it.
"No Silly prices" is a cop out, it just means "I want it cheap".
So....
Wanted: Ford Mustang GT500, preferably midnight blue with viper stripes....no silly prices please ?