No silly prices

[maya2008]

And part of the problem is that realistic prices where the breeder and producer makes a profit, are not affordable for the majority of people. If I wanted a nice horse at, say 15.2hh I could pick up a weanling for maybe £1500. Then if you use youngstock livery as a guide for running the weanling on while making something for keeping it, that’d be about £200 a month. Plus insurance at £60 per month. Followed by six weeks for backing at £200 a week. So then a basic, unexciting 3 year old would have cost £10,500 even if it has only ever seen the vet for vaccinations and already had tack that fit. More if it was a colt and had to be gelded.

Then you start piling the money on. To turn that ‘just backed’ 3 year old into a horse anyone can ride, who will go to a show and be gently competitive, you have to factor in hours of someone’s time, plus the cost of arena hire, show entries, changes in saddle as they grow, cost of keep etc. To get my husband’s cob to 5 and a half, where he could take over, I rode him 4x a week (on average). Plus loading practice etc. So if you guessed at a freelancer price of £30 for a ride, then 4x a week for 2.5 years is £15,600. If one of those was arena hire each week, you can add £40 to the cost, so then another £5200 plus the cost of diesel. Show entries maybe once a month from age 4-5.5 at £35 for two classes, would come to £630, cost of keep for 2.5 years with stabling and arena, another £10,000 easily.

So if the producer of that horse that everyone wants is to make a profit, a 5.5 year old 15.2hh all rounder for the adult rider, would cost just over £30,000. More really - diesel for a lorry, insurance for rider etc.

 

[SEL]

I take "no silly prices" as "how dare you try and sell me a horse meeting all my criteria for 10k when I only have 2k to spend"

 

[Upthecreek]

“No silly prices” would make me scroll on by a wanted advert. A price is not silly because you can’t afford to pay it. And if the price is truly unrealistic and the item is genuinely not worth the asking price it will most likely take a long time to sell.

A horse is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. That might be £5000 for one person or £10,000 for the next. I last bought a horse 4 years ago and there is no way I could afford to buy similar now, that is life.

 

[Birker2020]

And part of the problem is that realistic prices where the breeder and producer makes a profit, are not affordable for the majority of people. If I wanted a nice horse at, say 15.2hh I could pick up a weanling for maybe £1500. Then if you use youngstock livery as a guide for running the weanling on while making something for keeping it, that’d be about £200 a month. Plus insurance at £60 per month. Followed by six weeks for backing at £200 a week. So then a basic, unexciting 3 year old would have cost £10,500 even if it has only ever seen the vet for vaccinations and already had tack that fit. More if it was a colt and had to be gelded.

Then you start piling the money on. To turn that ‘just backed’ 3 year old into a horse anyone can ride, who will go to a show and be gently competitive, you have to factor in hours of someone’s time, plus the cost of arena hire, show entries, changes in saddle as they grow, cost of keep etc. To get my husband’s cob to 5 and a half, where he could take over, I rode him 4x a week (on average). Plus loading practice etc. So if you guessed at a freelancer price of £30 for a ride, then 4x a week for 2.5 years is £15,600. If one of those was arena hire each week, you can add £40 to the cost, so then another £5200 plus the cost of diesel. Show entries maybe once a month from age 4-5.5 at £35 for two classes, would come to £630, cost of keep for 2.5 years with stabling and arena, another £10,000 easily.

So if the producer of that horse that everyone wants is to make a profit, a 5.5 year old 15.2hh all rounder for the adult rider, would cost just over £30,000. More really - diesel for a lorry, insurance for rider etc.

Yes but not many people would sell a horse dependent on what they have put in to it monetary wise. The best sellers are those that buy and sell quickly.

I've always felt this company for example which has been discussed many times before on the forum makes money quickly because they have a fast turn around so don't have expensive upkeep and they put a fair bit of effort for a few days but don't sell for an over inflated price

Irish horse imports company.

 

[milliepops]

but for them to sell those RORs for 4.5k someone else has already taken a massive loss on that horse. It's fine if everyone wants to buy ex racers that owners have funded for those first years of their lives and accepted the losses, but if people want other types such as WBs or family all rounders someone else has to breed them, train and keep them going... those type of breeders aren't like racehorse owners having ££ to spend on their hobby and not be too worried about the costs that get sunk into it.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

By the time Felix is 6 months old he will have cost me £3K, ignoring livery and the failed attempts to get Amber pregnant. (I don't dare work out what he has actually cost me!!!) That is just pre pregnancy health checks/swabs, stud and vet fees, good care in pregnancy and post birth. You CAN do it cheaper but I wouldn't want to. There are economies of scale for studs but you can't get a healthy, quality foal on the ground for peanuts.

So what is a 'silly price' for an unspectacular but nicely bred weanling when there are BOGOF foals on the market giving people the expectation that these animals should be more or less free

 

[teapot]

I think horse prices and unfair in the same sentence could potentially only be used if you were trying to source for a centre. With prices the way they are, centres are going to struggle to buy decent horses. Not everywhere has the staff or time or buy something that will become a schoolmaster in x years time.

My last lesson horse was a new working livery. No questions asked it had been a five figure purchase that I highly doubt was below 20k…

For private purchases, there’s absolutely nothing unfair about having a spare 10/15/20k to buy a horse, a luxury item, with. How/why people don’t see horses as a luxury is beyond me. See also nice cars, holidays etc.

 

[SmallPony]

Do we think prices will come down over the next 6-9 months over winter with the cost of living going up as it is? I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who face higher running costs and need to reduce their numbers or need a lump of money from selling.

 

[Birker2020]

Do we think prices will come down over the next 6-9 months over winter with the cost of living going up as it is? I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who face higher running costs and need to reduce their numbers or need a lump of money from selling.

Yes I envisage there will be more loan horses available that people don't want to sell and want to secure their future by loaning out and I am hoping I can get a horse on loan but I am not sure I can 100% afford to keep one in retirement at the same time so will need to investigate nearer the time.

 

[milliepops]

Do we think prices will come down over the next 6-9 months over winter with the cost of living going up as it is? I'm sure there are going to be a lot of people who face higher running costs and need to reduce their numbers or need a lump of money from selling.

i think horse owners form a very wide spectrum from the shoestringers to the very wealthy and everything in between. So... some might sell up as hardship bites, but a lot will not really be affected by the cost of living etc and will be able to keep spending at the current rate.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Riding camps are very definitely 'luxury' - and our May and June camps were really slow. It was scary as we we made a loss in May and only broke even in June so I wondered if riding camps would be another industry to bite the dust. But we are totally full for the rest of the year now. So I think April was a shock and everyone stopped spending but people who can afford it, actually still can and have got used to the prices. There are still plenty of people with money around in the horse world.

My friend has been selling a lovely straightforward 4 yo Welsh/WB cross. She has now sold but it took a few weeks. She buys and sells a bit and 6 months ago she would have gone instantly. She still got the asking price though. So I think the dodgy horses are not so easy to offload anymore as people don't seem to be feeling the pressure to buy immediately. But prices are still high.

 

[Annagain]

I take "no silly prices" as "how dare you try and sell me a horse meeting all my criteria for 10k when I only have 2k to spend"

Nail, head!

I'd be far more inclined to respond to an advert that said "small budget so happy to compromise on age/ height / experience etc".

 

[milliepops]

Nail, head!

I'd be far more inclined to respond to an advert that said "small budget so happy to compromise on age/ height / experience etc".

you catch more flies with honey, and all that.

 

[Mrs_P]

As my husband says a horse is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. You can slap any price tag you want on a horse but ultimately it comes down to what buyers are willing to pay.
In my opinion horses have been underpriced for years and it's about time the hard work of breeders and producers was recognised.
They are a luxury not a necessity and if you can not afford the price for a well rounded horse, that is the correct age (not too young not too old) has established paces and has experience in your desired discipline or a good grounding to begin training in that discipline, no vices, no known injuries or health issues, excellent manners ridden and on the ground, good in traffic etc etc, then you will need to compromise somewhere along the line.
Ultimately these all-rounders have not appeared from thin air but rather someone has put blood, sweat and tears into making this horse and the price should reflect this. That isn't "unfair" just because in your opinion the horse is over priced. If you are not willing or not able to buy the horse at the advertised price, then you are free to walk away. Someone else may be willing to purchase it for that amount, or they may not, but that is the sellers perogative.
My standardbred is 16yo and still going strong *touch wood* but when he is ready for retirement if the prices are still high I will be buying a youngster to produce. I do not resent the market for the fact I can't afford to buy an established horse. Rather it's just a case of deciding what I am willing to compromise on and age in the form of a youngster is fine by me.

 

[Dexter]

Yes but not many people would sell a horse dependent on what they have put in to it monetary wise. The best sellers are those that buy and sell quickly.

I've always felt this company for example which has been discussed many times before on the forum makes money quickly because they have a fast turn around so don't have expensive upkeep and they put a fair bit of effort for a few days but don't sell for an over inflated price

Irish horse imports company.

They sell absolutely raw green 4 and 5yr olds. There are no trial facilities and they dont really want you trying them anyway. So they are priced at what the market will pay. Theres limited numbers of people capable of bringing these horses on to a good standard. Once they have, they will be the "stupid prices" that people dont want to pay

 

[eggs]

Slightly off topic but 30+ years ago my friend was selling her very decent riding club (but not novice ride) horse. She initially had him advertised at £2k which was the going rate in those days but got no enquiries. She then advertised him for £3.5k and the phone rang off the hook with interested purchasers.

 

[sport horse]

The prices may level off. Prices depend on supply and demand. Some years ago the prices were so low that many breeders ceased to breed or cut down massively on their numbers. Hence now horses are in shorter supply throughout europe and the prices have increased. Despite whaat a considerable number of people think, most breeders do not do it for fun or to lose money, they do it as a business.

 

[maya2008]

Yes but not many people would sell a horse dependent on what they have put in to it monetary wise. The best sellers are those that buy and sell quickly.

I've always felt this company for example which has been discussed many times before on the forum makes money quickly because they have a fast turn around so don't have expensive upkeep and they put a fair bit of effort for a few days but don't sell for an over inflated price

Irish horse imports company.

They may not keep them for long, but whoever they bought the horse off ideally would at least break even. So that would affect the prices at which they buy and then sell at. My Irish import pony would have been sold at a loss. She was caught, passported, transported from Ireland…and sold to me for £500. Great for me, not so great for her breeder!

 

[lexi lady]

the type of people who says this wants a 10 grand horses for 2 grand . people should breed there own horses before complaining about horse prices.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Things are only worth what someone is willing to pay. Potential is in the eye of the beholder.

A fantastically well bred racehorse - by a multiple Group 1 winning sire and out of a likewise dam - will sell for hundreds of thousands, if not a million+ as a foal or yearling because the piece of paper tells you that horse has the potential to win good races. The reality is not many even cover their training fees costs a year let alone make a profit. So just because I want to own the next Triple Crown winner I find it unfair that I would have to pay extortionate amounts of money for that piece of paper. Just because it's not proven it's value on the track yet.

No. That's not how things work. Yes there are always bargains - take Pyledriver he didn't sell for 10k at the yearling sales. He has now won nearly £2million.

There are bargains out there you just need to sift them out.

 

[Birker2020]

Nail, head!

I'd be far more inclined to respond to an advert that said "small budget so happy to compromise on age/ height / experience etc".

But not everyone can word things like that, not everyone would think of that to say.

Its just the incredulousness of people on here who think that someone putting 'no silly prices' is somehow outrageous and deserves contempt or abuse.

I did a wanted advert and from memory said I had a low five figure budget but I could well have said 'no silly prices' having enquired about a horse that had less about it than the horse I'd just lost and found out that they wanted £50K for it when by its description was clearly worth about 1/4 of that.

 

[Birker2020]

deleted

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I had no intention of offending anyone - but maybe now you know that many people find it an off putting phrase you can choose not to use it. Language is funny. Words that sound fine to some get heard in a different way to others. This sounds like an example of that. I’m also put off by ‘no time wasters or tyre kickers’. Which I think means ‘you’re a timewaster if you don’t immediately buy my horse and a tyre kicker if you take your time checking things out!’

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edit: just realized that no matter how many times I explain this it won't matter, so never mind.

 

[Birker2020]

Edit: just realized that no matter how many times I explain this it won't matter, so never mind.

We don't have to all agree.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

We don't have to all agree.

Of course.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Its just the incredulousness of people on here who think that someone putting 'no silly prices' is somehow outrageous and deserves contempt or abuse.

I am going to say this though, I don't think that anyone or most on here think that it deserves abuse. Life and everything you say is not free from criticism and opinions. That doesn't always equal contempt or abuse nor does it create a victim.

I could then say, "It's just the incredulousness of people on here who think that somone putting an ad up for their horse at fair market value is somehow outrageous and deserves contempt or abuse." The road goes both ways.

I personally would not say "no silly prices" and don't think it's very productive. Maybe it has worked for some and they've gotten deals in the past, I don't know. They can phrase their wanted ad as they please, and people can also say "I would not say that." "Why do people say that?" Or otherwise state their opinion on the matter without it being abuse or thinking that the person using that phrase deserves abuse. It's actually a bit insulting to state someone's intentions when that wasn't their intent at all. To me "abuse" is a powerful or strong word and accusation, so maybe that shapes my thoughts on the matter. Sometimes it is just a misunderstanding though.

I personally avoid "no silly prices" in wanted ads unless I am desperate to get rid of something and will take whatever offer (can be on tack, household stuff, whatever), so maybe sometimes you catch those types of sellers with the phrase.

 

[Cortez]

But not everyone can word things like that, not everyone would think of that to say.

Its just the incredulousness of people on here who think that someone putting 'no silly prices' is somehow outrageous and deserves contempt or abuse.

I did a wanted advert and from memory said I had a low five figure budget but I could well have said 'no silly prices' having enquired about a horse that had less about it than the horse I'd just lost and found out that they wanted £50K for it when by its description was clearly worth about 1/4 of that.

“Clearly” to you perhaps, but based on what evidence? If someone subsequently bought the horse at that price then it clearly was worth the price to them. Calling someone else’s pricing silly is impolite and dismissive and not a tactic that is likely to be productive.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I think there are only 2 kinds of 'silly' price: A dodgy dealer offloading a horse to someone naive and massively overcharging. You don't need to say 'no silly prices' to stop that happening to you.
Or owners who bought a horse for X and left it to get unfit, unschooled and fat or poor who wants their money back. Not seeming to realise that a horse does not maintain value if you don't keep up with his health/fitness/education. Or that a 5/6 year old with potential is worth more than a 7/8 year old with unrealised potential. BUt that person won't regard the price as 'silly' - after all they paid it! And don't really understand that they have caused the horse to lose value rapidly.

I did once view a horse who looked amazing on video bit was grossly obese IRL. She said "well he gained weight in lockdown as he was just turned away. But he can lose weight again". The horse in the video was worth the asking price. The horse in front of me very definitely wasn't.

 

[oldie48]

The main problem with buying or selling anything is that you have to deal with "people" and people aren't always very nice to deal with, I think we just have to accept that. fwiw I wouldn't respond to an ad that said "no silly prices", a local farmer is keen to buy a bit of land from me but when he approached me he used that phrase so I asked him to come back with an offer and I'd let him know if it was acceptable or not. tbh I'm not bothered about selling the land, haven't advertised it for sale so if he wants me to sell, he'll need to make it an extremely tempting offer so I doubt we'll have a deal. When I sold my lorry recently I had two quite aggressive texts from people who told me I'd sold the lorry too cheaply and they would have offered more for it! Seems you just can't win. With regard to horse prices, they've been too cheap for years and IMO too few people appreciate the time, money and skill that goes into producing a nice 4/5 year old which is why there are so many horses with huge "holes in their training" because they've been rushed. I watched a horse recently being re-schooled because it had never been taught to accept a contact. Nice RC type of horse, well put together but a very difficult ride so it's gone back to basics and hopefully it's problems will be resolved, just a shame it wasn't started properly first time round!