No silly prices

[Birker2020]

Other people are surprised at the increases (particularly if they've not been in the horse market for a few years) but I've never seen anyone else say it was "unfair".

Well maybe that's my interpretation. I just feel sorry for people that have lost a much loved horse and have come to the realisation that they can't afford to buy one with the present market.

I honestly think if we hadn't had Covid then the prices would have been the same as they were in 2019.

I am sorry if I have upset anyone, it wasn't my attention, I certainly didn't feel like I had attacked anyone.

 

[Peglo]

And in fairness most people have said they would compromise. My only condition would be a nice person. When I look for my next one I don’t care what colour or height (although I won’t buy anything Im too heavy for) breed, sex, don’t care about competition record and if the horse only wanted to hack, that’s what I’d do. I don’t have the money to have a long list of requirements. I’m happy with that so long as I have a nice friend. I just feel lucky I can afford a horse or 2 at all.

 

[Cortez]

What is exasperating is your complete inability/unwillingness to really stop and THINK about what you are saying, to LISTEN to any of the opposing views or to UNDERSTAND what people - many, many people, are telling you. This really isn't about you, any more than the price of steak is. If you can't afford to buy horses that's tough, but it is not unfair.

 

[milliepops]

There are lots of us on this thread in the same boat, my horse of a lifetime retired during the pandemic and there's no way i can afford to replace her with anything similar either. I still think "unfair" is an unhelpful way of looking at it, because it implies that one is somehow owed an experience or a possession and leads to resentment and unhappiness which gets in the way of things. It's not fair or otherwise, it just *is*.

 

[eggs]

Birker, I mean this in the kindest way, but I think you need to take your own advice and step away from this thread for your own sake.

Yes, horse prices seem very high but that is just because they were too low for such a long time. In an earlier post I mentioned the RC horse that was sold over 30 years ago for £3.5k and it is not so long ago that you would have paid a similar price for a similar horse.

I have bred a number of foals for myself over the years and although it is very enjoyable it is definitely not a cheap option. When you realise the costs involved in getting the mare in foal through to having a nice six year old you could easily go out and buy one of those £25k horses.

'Potential' will always put a premium on the price even though that potential may well amount to nothing. The schoolmaster that has had a lot of money spent on their training should also attract a premium.

I personally think it is more 'unfair' that there are people in this country having to rely on food banks than the fact that people are starting to price horses to reflect the market.

 

[Squeak]

I do wonder how the increase in prices for buying and then looking after horses will change equestrianism - we're already seeing problems with lack of entries (particularly BE) and I wonder if this will increase as less people are involved in horses due to being priced out.

Maybe we'll see more shares as a way to help with costs.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

There are lots of us on this thread in the same boat, my horse of a lifetime retired during the pandemic and there's no way i can afford to replace her with anything similar either. I still think "unfair" is an unhelpful way of looking at it, because it implies that one is somehow owed an experience or a possession and leads to resentment and unhappiness which gets in the way of things. It's not fair or otherwise, it just *is*.

Um, didn't you just breed her to a very handsome and talented Welshie? And don't you have an awesome bold little 2 year old?

Ah hem.



yes, I know that's not the same/a direct replacement, but still much to look forward to! ...I have a touch of jealousy.

 

[Mrs_P]

I think it's the attitude of "it's so unfair" that has got up people's noses also. It comes across as entitled and like you feel the seller somehow owes you something?
While it's incredibly sad for anyone to lose a horse and not be in a position to finance another, I don't see how that can be "unfair". It isn't personal, just a reflection of the market. No one is entitled to a horse. They are a luxury at the end of the day and while it is unfortunate if someone can not afford to replace a lost horse with one of equal ability and temperament, there is always the option to compromise on specific needs and purchase something cheaper, or loan/share.
I just don't understand why it can be called unfair when it's just the market. It goes up, it comes down. That's just how it is.

 

[milliepops]

Um, didn't you just breed her to a very handsome and talented Welshie? And don't you have an awesome bold little 2 year old?

Ah hem.



yes, I know that's not the same/a direct replacement, but still much to look forward to! ...I have a touch of jealousy.

be a while before either of them are learning to passage

 

[milliepops]

be a while before either of them are learning to passage

but yes. that is my compromise. I have spent £1k on getting a 79 day embryo so far as mare was obliging and caught first time. I've slipped all the way down the snake and am making foundations for the next ladder

 

[CanteringCarrot]

be a while before either of them are learning to passage

I know.


That was such an accomplishment and it's no short road to get there.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

but yes. that is my compromise. I have spent £1k on getting a 79 day embryo so far as mare was obliging and caught first time. I've slipped all the way down the snake and am making foundations for the next ladder

My compromise has always been that I buy young and green as grass...possibly not even backed. I've never gotten a horse this far along in dressage before, mostly due to selling due to life changes or offers I didn't refuse. So when I do start over, it'll be climbing back up from the bottom again, but in a way I look forward to it. I know so much more now and won't repeat some of my mistakes ?...hopefully

 

[milliepops]

I know.


That was such an accomplishment and it's no short road to get there.

making it about me now but I am hopeful that the next road I'm on is less bumpy and winding because in theory starting from scratch with a homebred there should be no behavioural surprises
Still hoping the 2yo grows to something like the height of either of her parents otherwise I will have to take up driving

 

[Cortez]

making it about me now but I am hopeful that the next road I'm on is less bumpy and winding because in theory starting from scratch with a homebred there should be no behavioural surprises
Still hoping the 2yo grows to something like the height of either of her parents otherwise I will have to take up driving

Never, ever even LOOK at two year olds! That's the most useful thing I learned from years of running a stud farm. Look at them when they're 3 weeks old, and keep the eyes firmly closed until they're three years old.

 

[Birker2020]

I think it's the attitude of "it's so unfair" that has got up people's noses also. It comes across as entitled and like you feel the seller somehow owes you something?
While it's incredibly sad for anyone to lose a horse and not be in a position to finance another, I don't see how that can be "unfair". It isn't personal, just a reflection of the market. No one is entitled to a horse. They are a luxury at the end of the day and while it is unfortunate if someone can not afford to replace a lost horse with one of equal ability and temperament, there is always the option to compromise on specific needs and purchase something cheaper, or loan/share.
I just don't understand why it can be called unfair when it's just the market. It goes up, it comes down. That's just how it is.

Getting up peoples noses for saying the word unfair. Really??I wasn't referring to it as being unfair to me, as I have already bought one and don't plan to buy another at the moment, a bit like you might say its unfair that people leaving school might not get a foot on the housing ladder, it was meant in that context. Here is what I actually said:
'I'd rather spend money on something with proven results like the last horse on my reply but the market is so mental at the moment that people are buying horses unseen just so they can have a chance to get something because demand seems to be higher than supply at the moment, in the same way people are being drawn into spending much more than they need to in order to buy a horse because for every horse for sale there are about five buyers! It seems so unfair."

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I think perhaps a lot of people are jumping on Birker 2020 very harshly (and unfairly - forgive the pun!) for the choice of the use of one word, 'unfair' . Maybe it would have been better if her post had been phrased as 'frustrating'? That is how I read it, not a true sense of stamping feet, having a good sulk 'unfair'. Just plain old disappointed and frustrated, and for that I cannot condemn her at all and I am sorry others are doing so in such a harsh way. I don't see that she has made this post about her, she has had so many scathing and downright unfriendly and unnecessary responses to her opinion then why wouldn't she continue to defend her opinion, if other posters continue to regale her for her opinion?

I would say the price of average horses will come down, the price of good horses will remain at their current realistic rates, while the cost of horses is ever increasing (ref a million threads on this forum!)

I agree with this 100 per cent, I think we will see the middle and lower market prices drop considerably but not the higher end and top notch horses. They have cost many thousands to breed and produce and their professional breeders and producers deserve every cent they can make IMHO.

Like Birker2020 I now find myself in the position that money I had put aside to buy a more suitable horse, should I ever be able for riding again, has now diminished due to unforeseen circumstances, the pot is half empty. Here in Ireland we cannot insure our horses for vet fees, so I always have to ensure I have enough in my horsey 'pot' for any unexpected vet fees for my retired mare, two ageing donkeys and any potential new horse I might have bought. I am now priced out of the market. Is it unfair, no of course not, but it is damned frustrating and makes me feel very fed up about it all, but thats my problem not the problem for sellers.

 

[milliepops]

i think the word "unfair" was only identified because as previously mentioned on this thread, language is important. The whole discussion about the phrase "no silly prices" getting peoples backs up is primarily around each side interpreting those words in a different way ("don't rip me off" vs "don't insult me with outrageous demands").

 

[Birker2020]

I think perhaps a lot of people are jumping on Birker 2020 very harshly (and unfairly - forgive the pun!) for the choice of the use of one word, 'unfair' . Maybe it would have been better if her post had been phrased as 'frustrating'? That is how I read it, not a true sense of stamping feet, having a good sulk 'unfair'. Just plain old disappointed and frustrated, and for that I cannot condemn her at all and I am sorry others are doing so in such a harsh way. I don't see that she has made this post about her, she has had so many scathing and downright unfriendly and unnecessary responses to her opinion then why wouldn't she continue to defend her opinion, if other posters continue to regale her for her opinion?

.

Thank you so much for saying this. You have said everything that I wanted to say but I am unable to because I struggle to articulate my words and for this I get jumped on. Then when I try to explain why I am saying this I get told I am making it all about me. I am only talking about my own experiences.

 

[ester]

Maybe just give more consideration as to whether other peoples comments on all thread topics are specifically about you and your situation rather than (the usually more likely) comments about the general situation/collective peoples experience?

 

[Birker2020]

Maybe just give more consideration as to whether other peoples comments on all thread topics are specifically about you and your situation rather than (the usually more likely) comments about the general situation/collective peoples experience?

Fair enough. But I genuinely do think people say I am making it 'all about me' when in actual fact all I am trying to do is give my point of view by talking about my own experience. I think this is where the confusion is.

If I don't come across the way I should maybe its because I reply in a certain way which is misconstrued. But just because an individual cannot articulate themselves as well as others or because they try to defend themselves its a bit unjust to come down on them so hard. I certainly couldn't do that to others, I just don't have the heart for anything where it makes someone so upset.

I am going to leave this thread now, because I don't feel I have anything further to add and because I am not having much fun. Thank you.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

i think the word "unfair" was only identified because as previously mentioned on this thread, language is important.

Yes I agree that of course language is important, but we don't all have the ability to write precisely and clearly to put over our message and intent, do we? I for one, have often found I have expressed myself badly and not quite got the message over that I intended.

But then those who value so very highly the use of correct language, grammar and meaning should surely have the intellectual ability to think carefully about what they read and perhaps realise from further explanation by poster what they are actually getting at in their post, rather than castigate and shame them for their use of language.

After all this is a light hearted horse forum, not a forum for intellectuals with degrees in the English language to deride, debate and discuss how well or not that other posters express themselves.

 

[milliepops]

Perhaps, or perhaps people value precise use of language and also take people at face value on what they say. Having to tangle yourself up in knots over what people might mean can lead to just as many headaches! the No Silly Prices thing tends to crop up on FB and the like where you have no clue who most of the people are in a group, what motivates their thoughts or behaviours etc, if you had to second guess everything written you'd go crazy

I don't think Birker has been shamed, she's said she meant frustrating rather than unfair, I can't speak for everyone but i think we probably can all agree that prices of everything going up is frustrating for many and that's fair enough.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Perhaps, or perhaps people value precise use of language and also take people at face value on what they say. Having to tangle yourself up in knots over what people might mean can lead to just as many headaches! the No Silly Prices thing tends to crop up on FB and the like where you have no clue who most of the people are in a group, what motivates their thoughts or behaviours etc, if you had to second guess everything written you'd go crazy

I don't think Birker has been shamed, she's said she meant frustrating rather than unfair, I can't speak for everyone but i think we probably can all agree that prices of everything going up is frustrating for many and that's fair enough.

Including Fuel… electricity…. Its crazy

 

[Red-1]

I agree that it is frustrating, although the word I took exception to was that people are being greedy.

As I said earlier, when I sold I had to ask what the market value was so that I could eventually buy another. I don't see it as greedy. It is simply market value.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Including Fuel… electricity…. Its crazy

Even McDonalds increased the price on their cheeseburger!


Was just on my news ticker ?

 

[ester]

It’s definitely not sellers fault I will unlikely ever own a horse - I should have opted for a different work sphere ?

 

[Barton Bounty]

Even McDonalds increased the price on their cheeseburger!


Was just on my news ticker ?

Really? Ive not been for a while but… bye bye 99p menu hahaha ?

 

[oldie48]

I always feel that this forum is a pretty safe place, I've had the occasional time when someone has picked up on a word or phrase I've used rather carelessly and had a bit of a go but it always seems to resolve because I think despite our differences we do actually value pretty much the same things and are kind and polite to each other. I am a member of Gransnet (yes I'm old and have too much time on my hands) and I've been really shocked by the content and tone of some of the posts. The political/news threads are the worst, it's been a real eye opener! I suspect some of the horrible bullies stop people taking part in discussions but I know that won't happen on this forum so let's not be afraid of posting about controversial subjects, I really like to read others views even when I don't always agree with them.

 

[planete]

I dipped a toe in gransnet. Withdrew it sharpish!

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Never, ever even LOOK at two year olds! That's the most useful thing I learned from years of running a stud farm. Look at them when they're 3 weeks old, and keep the eyes firmly closed until they're three years old.

Absolutely this!
However, I'd maybe show a foal with dam towards end of season, then possibly take a yearling out once or twice for education.
2 yr olds tho.... they were firmly banished across the fields, usually with an uncle who would bop them one if required ?