Normalizing restricted turnnout ?

Michen

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the fields are exactly the same here. We have just about no snow on them and it is very windy. 7 of them are out playing, charging around and being normal horses. They came in at lunchtime for a drink and then off they went again. No reason for them to stay in, they are not going to damage the fields, they are too frozen for that. Can't ride as the roads are too icey.
The only one I have in, with the run of 4 stables where she can roll, is a 34 yo cushings. She has to stay in in case her feet get cold.


Sorry but "no reason to stay in". I do see a reason to stay in. I have a horse with a rehabbed ligament injury and spavin in his hocks. Personally I do not think him being repeatedly turned out on frozen poached rutted ground is going to do either of those things much good. I struggle keeping my ankles upright on it walking over it by the gate and whilst the rest of the field is absolutely fine, the gate is where they like to muck around.

I'd prefer to turn out, given walking twice a day is a PITA, but I'd rather keep my horse sound for the sake of a few days in a stable.

Don't assume that just because there's no reason to not turn YOUR horse out, that others don't need to approach things differently. It's great you are happy for your horses to charge around on that sort of ground playing- I however am not.
 

Birker2020

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I think for me the issue is that back in the 70's and 80's horses were worked not tickled in the school for 20 mins by someone to scared to canter lol. We used to wear our horses shoes out and 2 hour hacks were a quick ride lol.
Yes I agree, horses were worked for an hour, they were hacked for three of four, I used to spend the entire day from 8am until 6pm or 7pm at the livery yard, with one horse! I can't imagine doing this now. But in those days you would think nothing of schooling for an hour in the morning, washing your horse off, turning it out, then having a lunch with all your mates sat round in the yard and then grabbing it in and going for long hack for 2 hours on the same horse in the afternoon.
 

Goldenstar

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It’s not easy when the weather is like this that’s for sure , particularly when your horses are fit three of mine where hunting fit and one of those was also out doing dressage when we went back into lockdown .
I dont leave mine out in weather like this if they start looking like they want in , that’s 2/3 hours when the weathers awful like the last few days today it’s very cold but still I will leave them longer but they will be in before its dark.
You have to do your best with what you have .
When the storm is coming straight from the North East and you home is on the top of a hill overlooking the North Sea there’s a limit to how long the clipped horses want to stay out in a wind and blizzard .
Another field in another place it would quite different .
I worry a lot about the rutted frozen ground I can hardly walk in the field in the bad spots .
 

milliepops

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Sorry but "no reason to stay in". I do see a reason to stay in. I have a horse with a rehabbed ligament injury and spavin in his hocks. Personally I do not think him being repeatedly turned out on frozen poached rutted ground is going to do either of those things much good. I struggle keeping my ankles upright on it walking over it by the gate and whilst the rest of the field is absolutely fine, the gate is where they like to muck around.

I'd prefer to turn out, given walking twice a day is a PITA, but I'd rather keep my horse sound for the sake of a few days in a stable.

Don't assume that just because there's no reason to not turn YOUR horse out, that others don't need to approach things differently. It's great you are happy for your horses to charge around on that sort of ground playing- I however am not.
Yeah agreed. Due to the light use over the winter my field is fairly good but the approach to it is definitely not. I would really kick myself if my horses injured themselves stepping in a frozen mud hole at the wrong angle or slipped on the ice getting there.
 

paddy555

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Sorry but "no reason to stay in". I do see a reason to stay in. I have a horse with a rehabbed ligament injury and spavin in his hocks. Personally I do not think him being repeatedly turned out on frozen poached rutted ground is going to do either of those things much good. I struggle keeping my ankles upright on it walking over it by the gate and whilst the rest of the field is absolutely fine, the gate is where they like to muck around.

I'd prefer to turn out, given walking twice a day is a PITA, but I'd rather keep my horse sound for the sake of a few days in a stable.

Don't assume that just because there's no reason to not turn YOUR horse out, that others don't need to approach things differently. It's great you are happy for your horses to charge around on that sort of ground playing- I however am not.

yes but you are talking about a horse with a medical condition and therefore not a reason to go out, I am talking about my cushingoid in the same way.

I thought this thread was about horse keeping in general and keeping horses stabled. I didn't take it to be about individual horses that needed restriction for medical reasons. That it a totally different situation.
 

Kaylum

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We have lots of hard standing areas with sand on them they go out everyday. They also have field shelters in every area. Keeping them walking around and active. Some stay out overnight.
 
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Michen

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yes but you are talking about a horse with a medical condition and therefore not a reason to go out, I am talking about my cushingoid in the same way.

I thought this thread was about horse keeping in general and keeping horses stabled. I didn't take it to be about individual horses that needed restriction for medical reasons. That it a totally different situation.

I actually think that I would keep them in where possible now even if they didn't have a medical condition (in fact the younger one doesn't).

To try and prevent them from ending up with one through such ground.
 

paddy555

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I think it froze for many on Sunday so by now horses would have spent nearly 5 days and nights in. I cannot see the ground, at least in our area, easing for another 3 days at least possibly more. That is an awful long time to leave a horse stabled for just about all of the time.
Mine have their stable doors open into yards all night so they can move constantly but many just have stables.
 

Michen

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I think it froze for many on Sunday so by now horses would have spent nearly 5 days and nights in. I cannot see the ground, at least in our area, easing for another 3 days at least possibly more. That is an awful long time to leave a horse stabled for just about all of the time.
Mine have their stable doors open into yards all night so they can move constantly but many just have stables.

Why is that a long time to leave a horse stabled? If the horse is adequately moved both ends of the day, it's what some horses are kept like the majority of winter. It's not remotely a long time to leave a horse stabled if you are looking after it sufficiently. If you horse picks up an injury the subsequent stabling could be 3 months of controlled box rest walking.

There is no right or wrong, if you are happy with your horses charging around as you put it on that sort of ground then that is your prerogative.

This is what I mean by the mentally of "horses must always be turned out". Sometimes there are very valid reasons why not to. Thing of the long term health of the horse rather than the short term.
 

sportsmansB

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My horse lives on a big competition yard, and has done on similar yards all his life. He is accustomed to short turn out 'slots' and can't bear to be in the field over a meal time. He charges around whinnying and does wall of death style manouvres at the gate, threatening to jump in. I can't put him out on frozen rutted ground unless I am there to watch for when he decides hes had enough, which could be anywhere between 45 mins and 3 hours. He gets turned out with ponies who live out 24/7. In the summer he is more tolerant but still prefers to sleep in a stable.
I honestly don't think he would be that bothered about whether he gets field time in the winter or not, its me who thinks its important. He gets proper work every day and a walker.
I am currently looking for a place of my own, mindful that he will potentially need to retire over the next few years, but my requirements for him are quite specific. I will need to have the roofed-barn-open-to-all-weather area hopefully then leading on to small arena and then field for him, so that he can choose to come in and out when he wants. If I do have this, then I wouldn't be worried about having to close off the field for a time over the winter as long as he gets adequate walking around and rolling space. I will need to leave hime on occasion and need him and his companions to have access to wherever they want, as unlike at a livery he maybe unattended at times.
I 100% do not agree with horses literally just standing inside stables for 24 hours a day. People keeping youngstock stabled and in routines like ridden horses have upsets me. I also think most retirees shouod be in retirement livery if the only other option is stabling over the winter. But I can honestly say that mine is not unhappy to stand in his for approx 22 hours, especially in bad weather, provided he gets exercised and has hay to munch on throughout.
 

paddy555

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Why is that a long time to leave a horse stabled? If the horse is adequately moved both ends of the day, it's what some horses are kept like the majority of winter. It's not remotely a long time to leave a horse stabled if you are looking after it sufficiently. If you horse picks up an injury the subsequent stabling could be 3 months of controlled box rest walking.

There is no right or wrong, if you are happy with your horses charging around as you put it on that sort of ground then that is your prerogative.

This is what I mean by the mentally of "horses must always be turned out". Sometimes there are very valid reasons why not to. Thing of the long term health of the horse rather than the short term.

If one were to keep their horse stabled all the time in this hard weather, which could be up to say a couple of weeks, and then turn it out, with it's mates, onto the now thawed, deep muddy field I think that it would be in far more danger in it's madness to damage it's legs than constantly letting it have it's freedom. Having time out daily for them, every day, means that turning out is nothing to them. It happens all the time, nothing to get over excited about.
I am lucky as I don't have deep mud rutted areas at gates as they all have hardcore down.

I think it is an appallingly long time to leave a horse stabled and I don't really understand why people think otherwise. Even if it was ridden for an hour a day I would think it far too long.

If I posted that I was getting a springer spaniel, I worked away from home all day but it would get 10 minutes in the garden before work and a 15 minute walk down the road on a lead in the evening. The rest of the time it would be home alone in one room everyone would be up in arms. It would be unreasonable to an animal that needs to move around. I should wait until I had a different job/retired/could provide a lifestyle suited to a dog.

Yet apparently a horse who also needs movement and stimulation can happily be stabled 23 hours a day.
I don't get it. I am not a "keep them out 24/7" fanatic but they really do deserve some time each day to be a horse not just a toy kept in a box until someone wants to take it out to play with.
 

Cortez

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There are many ways to manage horses, not just the "right" way. Having worked with horses all over the world I have seen awful practises, and exemplary ones (and not where you'd expect them to be, in many instances), and horses adapting to many different regimes. Horses get used to most things, there is no hard and fast rule. Most of what we do with horses is not natural - riding them most certainly is not, so I think you'll have to reach a certain level of acceptance if you're going to keep horses anywhere other than on the tundra.
 

Ellibelli

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I'm fortunate enough to have a similar set up to TheMule and mine are out 24/7 with constant access to their stables. I think with this kind of weather the biggest risk is the point at which a horse is actually turned out, having been in a stable overnight. When they are already out, they become used to the frozen ground conditions as it happens if you see what I mean?

I'm not sure I buy into the good old days. Back in the 70's/80's many of the types of horses around nowadays that have behaviour issues / ulcers etc as a result of being constantly stabled would have been shipped off to the local sales for the meat man to deal with, unless they were talented and lucky enough to have ended up with a pro.
 

Cortez

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I'm not sure I buy into the good old days. Back in the 70's/80's many of the types of horses around nowadays that have behaviour issues / ulcers etc as a result of being constantly stabled would have been shipped off to the local sales for the meat man to deal with, unless they were talented and lucky enough to have ended up with a pro.

Hmmm, that is perhaps why they were the good old days after all.....Breeding only from horses that are capable of being kept as we wish to keep them would seem to be an advantage, both for the horses and their keepers.
 

Ellibelli

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Hmmm, that is perhaps why they were the good old days after all.....Breeding only from horses that are capable of being kept as we wish to keep them would seem to be an advantage, both for the horses and their keepers.
I agree in theory, but of course just because a horse appears to tolerate something doesn't mean it's happy with the situation. I've heard many old horsemen / women proudly boast that they never had horses with ulcers, but having had the most wonderfully behaved horse that simply turned to look at me when I brushed his right side turn out to have grade 3 ulcers, unless every horse was scoped then there is no way of knowing whether or not they had ulcers.
 

Lillian_paddington

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Hmmm, that is perhaps why they were the good old days after all.....Breeding only from horses that are capable of being kept as we wish to keep them would seem to be an advantage, both for the horses and their keepers.
But as we know, horses are stoic and many have kind enough natures that they won’t act out even when suffering. I’d classify keeping a horse without any companionship, or ability to move of its own volition, for months on end suffering. A month of box rest ended my gelding’s ridden career at 11 - arthritis started, and he lost the muscle supporting an old suspensory injury. I’m sure he was in pain, he was certainly stressed as he started cribbing but to handle he was good as gold. For his first ride I was able to take him from his box and him bareback, he was a sensitive horse but he behaved perfectly. My point being that horses can cope with pain or distress without acting out or inconveniencing their handlers. And that it’s up to us to provide them with their basic needs even when there’s no direct benefit to us.
 

Michen

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yet your horses who are turned out daily have still been “charging around” on the poached ground. Sounds like the daily turnout really stops them being idiots when they are turned out, eh...?
 

Esyllt

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I had the opportunity to turn my girl out with some of the others on the yard, after being individually paddocks over the summer due to different grazing needs, which in theory sounds great, but the other 2 like to come in a lot, so hover at the gate as they know they'll get brought in. Even if theyve only been out 15 minutes! Which meant mine ended up being brought in too (even though she was not by the gate and happy in her own world, she's not that keen on the others so doesn't mix with them). While the ground is dry (frozen) I've put her back in her individual paddock, so she is out and moving looking for grass nibbles, not standing and stuffing her face with hay. Hate that she's back in her own bit, but hate seeing her stood in more.
 

DabDab

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I find it astonishing so many horses are seemingly charging around on frozen solid rutted ground and remain sound. How do you manage that.


I'm impressed that there are horses charging around on frozen rutted ground full stop. Mine don't do anything when the ground is like this. Just pick their way over the ruts and then stand by the hay.
 

Michen

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I find it astonishing so many horses are seemingly charging around on frozen solid rutted ground and remain sound. How do you manage that.

Well they probably aren’t. I imagine there are plenty of bruised horses and maybe even minor soft tissue injuries that owners never find/pick up on.
 

paddy555

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yet your horses who are turned out daily have still been “charging around” on the poached ground. Sounds like the daily turnout really stops them being idiots when they are turned out, eh...?

I think you will find playing around is normal horse behaviour, what 24/7 stabled ones are missing.
 

Tiddlypom

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I'm impressed that there are horses charging around on frozen rutted ground full stop. Mine don't do anything when the ground is like this. Just pick their way over the ruts and then stand by the hay.
Thankfully, same here. I am bringing all mine in at night for a kip, though, whereas normally they are out.

They will save up their charging about til after the last frost has left the ground, then they’ll have a mad half hour with bucks, farts and snorts :rolleyes:. Up til then, they will mince around carefully.

I took this pic of my worst gateway and realise that it looks very tame. It’s much worse in reality as the ruts are like concrete. We’d just started adding more hardcore when the cold snap came.

C5CC9F7A-7AA1-4602-BDCB-5F70CE14F949.jpeg
 

Littlewills

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I'm impressed that there are horses charging around on frozen rutted ground full stop. Mine don't do anything when the ground is like this. Just pick their way over the ruts and then stand by the hay.

Most of mine is rut free, theres just a bit at the edge of the hardstanding. They came cantering over this morning, broke to a walk near the rutted bit, carefully tip toed over it and lined up inside for breakfast. Mine are native/cobby ponies though so incredibly sensible and dont seem to really notice the weather.
 

Michen

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I think you will find playing around is normal horse behaviour, what 24/7 stabled ones are missing.

Ok paddy555, you must be the only horse owner I know of that is happy for their horses to be charging around on poached ground and not be remotely concerned about it. If I thought my horses would be completely sensible, I'd be turning out too. I think if you have horses who clearly are NOT sensible aka looking after themselves on that sort of ground then turning them out knowing what they will get up to day after day is unnecessarily risky.

But hey, crack on. I'm sure my poor deprived horses will survive a week without "playing" in exchange for their soundness.
 

paddy555

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Well they probably aren’t. I imagine there are plenty of bruised horses and maybe even minor soft tissue injuries that owners never find/pick up on.


I'm sorry Michen but that just sounds a bit childish. It is a bit like "my horse has to be stabled as he has a problem so I will criticise you because you let your horses out on this and say yours will not really be sound and you won't even notice they have a problem" .
 

Michen

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I'm sorry Michen but that just sounds a bit childish. It is a bit like "my horse has to be stabled as he has a problem so I will criticise you because you let your horses out on this and say yours will not really be sound and you won't even notice they have a problem" .

It's not remotely. I just said in my above post if I had sensible horses, they too would be turned out. If I could trust them to pick their way over poached frozen ground in a calm manner.

But you have actively said on here your ground is the same as mine (aka poached, frozen and hard to walk on as a human), and your horses are charging around on it, and you are cool with that. And you are judging people who are choosing to protect their horses from that (weather medical circumstances are relevant or not) through stabling because you believe it cruel.

I just find it odd that the risk of injury in those circumstances is ok, but stabling them for a bit to protect them from it is not.
 

Michen

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Thankfully, same here. I am bringing all mine in at night for a kip, though, whereas normally they are out.

They will save up their charging about til after the last frost has left the ground, then they’ll have a mad half hour with bucks, farts and snorts :rolleyes:. Up til then, they will mince around carefully.

I took this pic of my worst gateway and realise that it looks very tame. It’s much worse in reality as the ruts are like concrete. We’d just started adding more hardcore when the cold snap came.

View attachment 65641

I would be turning out on that happily, mine is far worse! Lucky you :)
 

paddy555

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I find it astonishing so many horses are seemingly charging around on frozen solid rutted ground and remain sound. How do you manage that.

quite easily from the look of them. They don't have shoes so perhaps that helps. I have never not turned out on this sort of surface. Lots of people I know have horses out 24/7 on this with just a hay feeder or shelter.
 
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