Normalizing restricted turnnout ?

[BronsonNutter]

nope, simply a reply to someone who has no idea of me, my horses or their training telling me I should work on making my horses unstressed at the idea of being in a stable.

But what if your horse does need box-resting? E.g. for a wound which has to be stitched up and bandaged? Or an injury? I suppose there's always the idea of making a small pen for them, but it would get very muddy this time of year if your ground is anything like mine.

 

[ycbm]

nope, simply a reply to someone who has no idea of me, my horses or their training telling me I should work on making my horses unstressed at the idea of being in a stable.

No, not accepting that, sorry. It is, imo, bang out of order to have a go at a poster who has had a rare tendon issue (that most people would have missed until it was too late) rehabbed with 100% care and attention, now finding that young horse has hock arthritis and her other raised liver enzymes waiting on a biopsy.

It was a very nasty dig Paddy.

 

[paddy555]

Eh? Oh are we now going down the route of “you must not medicate a horse” in any way. Jeez, I thought you were a bit nuts from some of the stuff you posted on the Covid thread but... ?‍

no we are most definitely not. We are going down the route, putting it quite bluntly, of you deal with your lame horse and I will deal with my sound ones.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I should work on making my horses unstressed at the idea of being in a stable.

As should we all, just in case any of them need to be box rested for any reason. Even or especially those of us whose horses usually live out.

 

[Michen]

no we are most definitely not. We are going down the route, putting it quite bluntly, of you deal with your lame horse and I will deal with my sound ones.

Hehe, I wrote something but it was just so petty I had to delete it.

I am fairly confident my horse is sounder than many, many working horses out there. Maybe even yours

 

[AdorableAlice]

I don't think it is a bad idea to actually train/teach a horse to accept being confined to future proof it for injury/weather or even a change of home with a different routine and facilities. It is inevitable that at some point in a horses life it will need to accept being in. They all have different needs but there is a lot that can be done to help them cope.

Four out of five of my current horses have experienced box rest ranging from 6 weeks to 11 months for injury. I had a 10 month old filly do 6 weeks in the stables when she had a suspected fractured cannon bone and looking back that experience it has helped her cope with future confinement without any issues, she did another 2 months after surgery a couple of years ago and has been in since Christmas this year as the land is so wet. I am a great believer in teaching horses to be adaptable, it helps them throughout their lives.

 

[paddy555]

But what if your horse does need box-resting? E.g. for a wound which has to be stitched up and bandaged? Or an injury? I suppose there's always the idea of making a small pen for them, but it would get very muddy this time of year if your ground is anything like mine.

I don't understand your post. If my horse needs box resting I would shut it in a stable. Why would you expect I would do anything different? Why would I want to make a small pen for them? Why do you think they cannot be shut in a stable in an emergency?

They go into stables every night in winter, they are in stables now after their day out,

They have not been shut in stables in the day time during this present frozen spell as I do not consider it to be in their best interests to change their routine of being in the fields during the daytime.

 

[paddy555]

I don't think it is a bad idea to actually train/teach a horse to accept being confined to future proof it for injury/weather or even a change of home with a different routine and facilities..

I totally agree and in fact that is where my horses are ATM, happily tucked up in their stables for the night.

 

[Michen]

I don't understand your post. If my horse needs box resting I would shut it in a stable. Why would you expect I would do anything different? Why would I want to make a small pen for them? Why do you think they cannot be shut in a stable in an emergency?

They go into stables every night in winter, they are in stables now after their day out,

They have not been shut in stables in the day time during this present frozen spell as I do not consider it to be in their best interests to change their routine of being in the fields during the daytime.

possibly something to do with ...

“Mentally it would probably crucify them as it would be such a different lifestyle. Stress would risk colic.”

If your horse would be mentally crucified or colic from the stress that sort of suggests that they have not been taught to be stabled for any length of time and would therefore be in a fair bit of trouble if you ever needed to box rest.

 

[JoannaC]

Mine are now in at night as the grass is pretty much non existent and the ground is rock hard. The naughty pony keeps breaking fences so they are all happy in with lots of hay. The brought themselves in at 2pm today, it's getting earlier and earlier! I'm lucky in that I leave the mares stables doors open and shut the gate on the barn so they can wander about although the pony is shut in for his own safety and the safety of my gate! I think this time of year when there is nothing to eat they are quite happy to stay in.

 

[milliepops]

I don't think it is a bad idea to actually train/teach a horse to accept being confined to future proof it for injury/weather or even a change of home with a different routine and facilities. It is inevitable that at some point in a horses life it will need to accept being in. They all have different needs but there is a lot that can be done to help them cope.

Four out of five of my current horses have experienced box rest ranging from 6 weeks to 11 months for injury. I had a 10 month old filly do 6 weeks in the stables when she had a suspected fractured cannon bone and looking back that experience it has helped her cope with future confinement without any issues, she did another 2 months after surgery a couple of years ago and has been in since Christmas this year as the land is so wet. I am a great believer in teaching horses to be adaptable, it helps them throughout their lives.

Yes and although every horse is an individual, many can learn this. One of mine was so claustrophobic she wouldn't even go in an open sided field shelter but with time and practice she puts herself into her stable and stays put by choice with the door wide open now. I didn't think she'd learn to be this relaxed but it's a very useful thing to have done.

 

[BronsonNutter]

I don't understand your post. If my horse needs box resting I would shut it in a stable. Why would you expect I would do anything different? Why would I want to make a small pen for them? Why do you think they cannot be shut in a stable in an emergency?
They go into stables every night in winter, they are in stables now after their day out,
They have not been shut in stables in the day time during this present frozen spell as I do not consider it to be in their best interests to change their routine of being in the fields during the daytime.

Sorry, I assumed that they must live out 24/7 and not be used to being stabled as you said they became stressed when stabled. My misunderstanding.

 

[Cortez]

Gosh, do peoples' horses routinely go galloping around in fields (on icy ruts or otherwise)? If my horses were charging about as a regular thing I would immediately cut the food and up the work. Other than the very odd little buck and a squeal, I've almost never had herds of galloping lunatics under my care. Perhaps I have unusually sedate horses...

 

[GinaGeo]

For me turnout isn’t all about grass.

It’s about horses having the space to interact with their own kind, having the freedom to choose how to spend their time and move as they wish. I know from watching mine that they choose to stand close together, they play together and they stand over each other when the others sleep.

This can be achieved with a sand pit, small all weather turnout area, Stables with access to pens or even Crewe yards. It doesn’t have to be muddy or frozen paddocks. And I really do think that yards need to be more inventive at offering some sort of time out of the stable. Going into winter knowing that horses will be in for months on end isn’t really good enough.

Research has been done that shows that horses housed individually show increased cortisol levels. Living with low levels of underlying stress isn’t healthy for anything.

I completely agree that it is a good idea to train a horse to be stabled. Mine all are. In fact they all get fed and shut in them daily and they do choose to stand in them of their own choice. If I needed to box rest any of them I could. In the same way that I crate trained my dog so that if he needs to be in a small area he wouldn’t find it too stressful. It doesn’t mean that he lives in it all the time except for the hour where I walk him and I’m in control of his movements.

I have done it. I worked on a yard where they had to come in for a couple of months to let the fields recover. My boy was ridden out daily and went onto the walker. He adapted to it, behaved. But he was dead behind the eye and towards the end started showing ulcer symptoms. I left. Promised him he’d never be shut in unnecessarily again. He returned to his normal jolly self once he could be a horse again.

Just because we can doesn’t mean we should.

 

[milliepops]

The thing is, most of us on here are not in control of what facilities are on offer. If you own your own place then it's easier to provide all weather options, if you're reliant on livery or on rented ground then it very much depends on what the offering is like in your area.

I'd agree it would be great if more yards offered different things, but as a client you can't particularly influence that. There are no yards offering that in this area, its not even like you can vote with your feet to encourage people to put it in?

 

[Winters100]

I am a bit confused about this now, because my experience of turning out in very cold weather is that the high traffic areas can be awful, but if the field is large enough then generally away from gateways and water troughs will be fine. Is it a problem that there is not enough paddock space per horse in the UK? I am curious because it is never really cold here (I am in the Uk now), and even if there is some winter it seems really short lived.

I put water into the shelter when it is very cold, and have the ice boken regularly, so they can drink while on the hardstanding. My gateway is a disaster, but they are used to being out every day, it is not 'exciting' for them to go out, so all pick their way carefully over this. Some of the horses on the yard are less sensible, so the grooms just lead them further into their fields and let them go in a safe place. Surely this would work in the UK?

 

[milliepops]

I am a bit confused about this now, because my experience of turning out in very cold weather is that the high traffic areas can be awful, but if the field is large enough then generally away from gateways and water troughs will be fine. Is it a problem that there is not enough paddock space per horse in the UK? I am curious because it is never really cold here (I am in the Uk now), and even if there is some winter it seems really short lived.

I put water into the shelter when it is very cold, and have the ice boken regularly, so they can drink while on the hardstanding. My gateway is a disaster, but they are used to being out every day, it is not 'exciting' for them to go out, so all pick their way carefully over this. Some of the horses on the yard are less sensible, so the grooms just lead them further into their fields and let them go in a safe place. Surely this would work in the UK?

It all depends on the individual yard and the set up though, it's so variable. I'd say it is increasingly common that available turnout is smaller acreage than most people would choose, but it's generally manageable most of the year.

I have about 200m of frozen craters to carefully pick over to access my paddock, of which 25 m is currently sheet ice (normally a flood in the lane but frozen solid now) my horses are reasonably sensible but I don't see that as worth risking for the few days that it's an issue.
On a previous yard the turnout was 200m up a narrow road which was untreated in snow or ice so again made it impossible to access. If your turnout is adjacent to your stables then it's less of an issue but that's often not the case.

 

[Bernster]

I’m in the Herts area and I’d say yes, there is limited acreage available on some yards which means fields get overgrazed and boggy. Also some not so good land management which doesn’t help. And clay soil which gets very churned up.

 

[Deleted member 150717]

Sadly my horse is in a lot when it rains. if it rained heavily the night before there will be a note on the board saying “keep horses in today” and as it has snowed they haven’t been out for 5days. But in the third day of them being in they where allowed to be in the field for an hour while we do the jobs.

 

[paddy555]

I am a bit confused about this now, because my experience of turning out in very cold weather is that the high traffic areas can be awful, but if the field is large enough then generally away from gateways and water troughs will be fine. Is it a problem that there is not enough paddock space per horse in the UK? I am curious because it is never really cold here (I am in the Uk now), and even if there is some winter it seems really short lived.

I put water into the shelter when it is very cold, and have the ice boken regularly, so they can drink while on the hardstanding. My gateway is a disaster, but they are used to being out every day, it is not 'exciting' for them to go out, so all pick their way carefully over this. Some of the horses on the yard are less sensible, so the grooms just lead them further into their fields and let them go in a safe place. Surely this would work in the UK?

there is of course pressure from too many people, too many horses, too many houses being built and far too little land especially in some areas. However it seems to have become accepted in some areas that horses are fine with being stabled for most of the time as per the first few posts on this thread. I've always been an out in the day, ride/exercise just about daily and in at night person so I didn't really realise how long horses were being kept in in some areas until I read these sort of threads. Plus there seems to be a move to individual turnout.

It has deviated on here from the original post of keeping horses in for a good part of the winter to this particular icy stretch. The important point of course is those horses having to remain stabled for most of the time as a matter of course in the winter.
We seemed to have moved on to putting our requirements above those of the horse's requirements as a species and satisfy ourselves by saying that the horse is perfectly happy. The other argument is that the horse is stoical and does his best with whatever conditions he is given.

 

[JoannaC]

Well I opened the gate to the big field this morning, as they have only been in the small paddock since the last lot of snow but they ignored that wandered round the paddock and then brought themselves back in lol Whilst i'm in agreement that horses should have some turnout everyday I do think at this time of year when the grass is gone the ground is rock hard they are quite happy to only go out for a short time.

 

[Equine_Dream]

My two pence for what its worth...

I will never keep my horses on a yard that does not offer adequate turnout all year round. I don't equate exercise with turnout. They are as different as chalk and cheese to me. If a horse is not turned out then exercise can help to offer some physical stimulation that the horse requires, however it is, imo, not a substitute for turnout.
Horses are naturally social animals. Turnout to me is about giving the animal mental stimulation of interacting with other horses, grooming, play fighting etc, and physical stimulation to stretch and move freely. Exercise doesn't come into it really in a fitness sense.
I'm sure some horses seem "fine" stabled for vast amounts of the day, but I don’t think that its a suitable way to manage horses. If it were why do so many stabled horses develop stable vices, ulcers etc?
If they have always been kept that way, they may accept it because its what they have been conditioned to accept as normal, but that doesn't make it ok and it is not the natural way for horses to be kept.
Yes many things we do with modern day horses is not natural, and we can't necessarily do something in every case, but where possible I think we owe it to them to try and manage them in ways that is aa close to their natural way as possible. So where possible I think horses should always have some form of turnout.

 

[Wishfilly]

I am a bit confused about this now, because my experience of turning out in very cold weather is that the high traffic areas can be awful, but if the field is large enough then generally away from gateways and water troughs will be fine. Is it a problem that there is not enough paddock space per horse in the UK? I am curious because it is never really cold here (I am in the Uk now), and even if there is some winter it seems really short lived.

I put water into the shelter when it is very cold, and have the ice boken regularly, so they can drink while on the hardstanding. My gateway is a disaster, but they are used to being out every day, it is not 'exciting' for them to go out, so all pick their way carefully over this. Some of the horses on the yard are less sensible, so the grooms just lead them further into their fields and let them go in a safe place. Surely this would work in the UK?

I think there are a lot of yards in the UK that don't have enough space per horse-overstocking is a real issue. However, I think this year part of the issue is that a lot of places had flooding and then froze solid, which has caused people particular issues this week.

There are some fields at my yard which have been completely inaccessible this week due to sheet ice on the tracks leading to them- this is because they were partially flooded before the weather turned cold. These fields are the better draining fields at the top of the hill, which a lot of people normally use in winter. Some of them have lower lying summer fields, and we have made things work by turning horses out in the jumping/cross country field too.

The ground has been so wet here that every time my pony trotted or cantered across it, he has made ruts. A couple of days this week, there has been no give in the ground, and although the field itself is "fine", there are these big holes in it that could cause serious injury. There's give in the ground today, so he is out, but on Tuesday it was completely solid, so he was in. I'm lucky that I live far enough south I'm not worrying about it being frozen for days, and I think that one day in is better than weeks of box rest if he did himself an injury on the ground.

If it had been really cold all winter, the ground wouldn't have been so bad, because it wouldn't have been so wet.

But I do agree with PP that it would be great if more yards invested in all weather turnout areas. Unfortunately, like another poster said, there's no livery yards I have seen with that sort of set up (I have seen it on private yards), so it's not an option open to most of us.

 

[stormox]

My horses are in - and so have limited excersize. But they probably move around a lot more with their turnout on hardstanding, rides ,leads out , and moving around their stables from back window to door than my neighbours who never leave their muddy patch around a big round bale.

 

[Equine_Dream]

I think like everything its about balance. My lot love going out and have a romp and a roll most mornings, but you can bet they are stood by the gate at 4pm in winter ready to come in to their warm cosy stables for the night.

 

[oldie48]

I hope that more yards go down the route of having hard standing accessible from the stable. Rose's is individual not shared and for her that's the best option as she doesn't like other horses in her space but she can socialise to some extent with her neighbours on both sides and the yard feeds ad lib hay from the ground as a matter of course, so it does to some extent mimic grass turnout in that she mooches around her stable, out into the hard standing, grazes rather then constantly pulls at a hay net and is close to other horses. The walker and all weather turnout gives her the opportunity to exercise and have a roll, so although I wish she was out on grass, I feel this is a good enough short term solution particularly as she is worked regularly.

OH and I have had sore knees from walking the dog over very muddy fields, you walk differently in the mud but today it was frozen solid which is equally unpleasant to walk on and very slippy in places, so I sympathise with anyone choosing to keep their horse in, I'd do the same. I've been extremely fortunate to find this livery for Rose, they are few and far between but I think even with less than perfect facilities you can provide a good enough place for your horse and reading these posts it's clear that we all spend a lot of time thinking about how to do that. Cortez's comment "There are many ways to manage horses, not just the "right" way." is something I totally agree with.

 

[Winters100]

I don't equate exercise with turnout. They are as different as chalk and cheese to me. If a horse is not turned out then exercise can help to offer some physical stimulation that the horse requires, however it is, imo, not a substitute for turnout.
.

I do so agree with this. To me they are 2 different things entirely.

 

[TheMule]

Those saying their horses would rather be in than eating in deep mud or because there's no grass in the field- absolutely, but that is not the opposite of stabling all the time, that is bad land management and/ or over-stocked fields.
My horses have grass year round. It is supplemented with haylage, but they always have grass to eat too. And they are fed on hard standing to prevent the mud issue. It's just sensible management.

 

[Tiddlypom]

These horses have shelter, hay and grass, but they still lined up hopefully when I popped out just now to steam more hay for tonight .



’If you’re offering, we don’t mind coming in now instead of at 7pm!’

I had a brain wave and put their front hoof boots on to protect their feet from bruising on the frozen ground. I’d have put hinds on too, but my back is struggling enough as it is with the extra work during the cold snap.

 

[paddy555]

I had a brain wave and put their front hoof boots on to protect their feet from bruising on the frozen ground. .

I've done that many times over the last few years with my 34 yo cushings mare. It works very well.