EquiEquestrian556
Well-Known Member
I know what you meant. I was just poking you with a big stick for kicks
I know.
Nosebands and forcing your horses mouth shut....thoughts??
- Thread starter kc100
- Start date
I know.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
well my mare wont tolerate anything that sits in the area a cavesson should, have spoken to my vet and he hates cavesson and cranks as there are so many nerves running under and around the jaw in the area they sit-my mare obviously agrees. A cavesson is designed to keep the average horse from opening its mouth too wide it is not supposed to be just for decoration.
my mare is happiest in a loose drop noseband, she can open her mouth but not as wide as wide can be and it stbilises the bit and she goes best in a snaffle and a drop nothing else-she is hacked out in a halter and goes well in that although her carriage is longer in it but that is something we are working on and hopefully as she develops her muscles her carriage will become lighter in front
my mare is happiest in a loose drop noseband, she can open her mouth but not as wide as wide can be and it stbilises the bit and she goes best in a snaffle and a drop nothing else-she is hacked out in a halter and goes well in that although her carriage is longer in it but that is something we are working on and hopefully as she develops her muscles her carriage will become lighter in front
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
Kc, I'm feeling too lazy to quote and divide that up but...
On point one, I completely agree that the pulley system can be used to over-tighten the noseband. However, if the noseband is not over-tightened, i.e. is easily able to fit 2 fingers in without pushing into the padding, I don't agree that it is any different from a cavesson, which may equally be overtightened through ignorance or by brute force (though not to the same degree) and if suitable adjustment to the fit isn't made to allow for any padding.
On the pressure point, I understand what you're trying to say, but that isn't really how physics works - you've actually contradicted yourself by saying padding evens pressure out, and then saying "where there is a bump that protrudes slightly (we are talking the tiniest measurements here) there is going to be more pressure on that 'bump' because the padding is overcompensating for the gaps elsewhere". That's the very definition of not evening out pressure
I agree with many of your premises, I'm just not convinced by the extrapolation - you assume that the noseband is overtightened due to padding (this applies to both cavessons and cranks equally, because forcibly over-tightening a crank won't allow 2 fingers in anyway so you'd be deliberately not fitting it correctly). I completely agree that this over-tightening would cause issues and a horse to dislike it.
However, I don't agree that this means "Ultimately a crank, even done up loosely, is another mechanical method of forcing a horse's mouth closed/stopping the horse from relaxing its jaw" at all. If it's loose - and that's truly and correctly fitted (allowing for padding, as one should with any noseband) - it's not holding the jaw shut. It just isn't!
eta - I was riding early/baby piaffe bareback in a snaffle yesterday :cool3: Needs must and all that...
This. I was reading kc100's initial post a little bewilderedly as well. This is what I've always understood to be the case - that cranks are bad because you can very easily abuse the pulley system, however done loosely and adjusting for padding they are essentially like a padded cavesson...
Enfys
Well-Known Member
I ride western, I don't think I actually possess a noseband. I would use one if there was a reason to, fortunately I don't need to.
In the UK I used hackamores and Myler combo so no nosebands required, I used to have arabs and they could carry off the no noseband look OK anyway. The NF and welshies always wore loose cavessons purely for aesthetics (and for some reason PC instructors got narky when childrens ponies were presented for tack inspection without a noseband) If I had a big headed horse that would look better in a noseband then yes, I would use one just because they looked less jug headed.
I also ride with jaquimas, Colombian bosals if you like, thick nosebands with rings beneath the chin, mine are quite fancy with braiding.
Shown here with a globe Pelham, with jaquimas the bit hanger (headpiece) can just be slid on and off as required, it is not fixed through the browband.
In the UK I used hackamores and Myler combo so no nosebands required, I used to have arabs and they could carry off the no noseband look OK anyway. The NF and welshies always wore loose cavessons purely for aesthetics (and for some reason PC instructors got narky when childrens ponies were presented for tack inspection without a noseband) If I had a big headed horse that would look better in a noseband then yes, I would use one just because they looked less jug headed.
I also ride with jaquimas, Colombian bosals if you like, thick nosebands with rings beneath the chin, mine are quite fancy with braiding.
Shown here with a globe Pelham, with jaquimas the bit hanger (headpiece) can just be slid on and off as required, it is not fixed through the browband.
Last edited:
Kat
Well-Known Member
My mare is also happy in a loose drop, she wears one for dressage and jumping but has a hunter style cavesson for showing, wearing with a nose net or wearing with a curb bit (we hunt in a kimblewick).
I don't strap her mouth shut, it would make her really angry anyway.
Mike007
Well-Known Member
Utter cobblers. The caverson noseband is to prevent a horse breaking its jaw ,by grounding the lower jaw out hunting. It is also why it is compulsory to wear a noseband xc under BE rules.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the horse opening its mouth whilst ridden.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
what causes the jaw to break out hunting and what do you mean by grounding the jaw? how does a cavesson prevent it?
Mike007
Well-Known Member
Well ,to go into the Gorey details ,a horses jaw hinges from up near the ear and if the lower jaw digs into the ground ,it will be pulled back until it breaks . A big ditch,and a peck on landing and thats it. Its one of those strange things .Nosebands are now an accepted (almost without question) part of our tack, so the accidents they prevent are very rare. So people simply forget the original reason .
NZJenny
Well-Known Member
Ick - what a truly horrific thought. I like a cavesson because to me an English bridle looks unfinished with out it. I got sick and tired of being told to put a flash on my horse to stop him opening his mouth. The reason why he opened it seemed to be irrelevant to most and important only to me.
I rode endurance for years, always bitless and in a variety of types and I still hack bitless, it's no big deal. Just attach a pair of reins to a halter and away you go - we all used to ride in halters as kids. I like to use a bit as a fine aid (I hate seeing it used as a hand brake) and it's not like you need that fine control if you are just hacking.
I rode endurance for years, always bitless and in a variety of types and I still hack bitless, it's no big deal. Just attach a pair of reins to a halter and away you go - we all used to ride in halters as kids. I like to use a bit as a fine aid (I hate seeing it used as a hand brake) and it's not like you need that fine control if you are just hacking.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
and from my understanding it is thought to prevent all that by not allowing the mouth to open too wide and that is how the cavesson does prevents the above?
joycec
Well-Known Member
Lots of horses dislike crank nosebands no matter how loose they are fastened because the padding pushes into their cheek teeth on the sides where the top piece ends.
webble
Well-Known Member
Thats very interesting and gory. I suppose for the average person these days then the cavesson IS purely decorative
WindyStacks
Well-Known Member
Very interesting Mike!
At a previous yard a horse somehow managed to dislocate and "detach" its jaw in the stables. It healed remarkably quickly (with lots of vet intervention obviously!) and "looked" normal within a week. I don't know however the long term implications of its bridle-related performance as it were though.
Back to original question, I hate strapped shut mouths and I too strip a flash bridle of that ridiculous strap upon sight. My aim has always been to ride without a nose band, in a snaffle on the buckle and I honestly believe it's down to training, training, training, mileage and experience.
If your horse gets "excited" jumping to the point you can't control it - stop trying to jump an entire course out of control. Jump one, come back to walk, etc., etc.
Hacking - you don't mount and leave the yard gates at 100 knots - there is a transition period of losing control. That is what you have to master - by lessons you learn with your horse and not the purchase of a tack shop.
My instructor told me "you either ride that horse properly or you strap it down".
Caveat: due to injury I've not ridden my chap out for a couple of months. Because my confidence had waned in that time he'll be wearing a running martingale. If he's a horror the following time I'll use a Pelham too, but leave the curb rein on his neck - it's a psychological support for ME, not him. Within a week or two he'll be back in his boring bridle and I'll be fully in control.
At a previous yard a horse somehow managed to dislocate and "detach" its jaw in the stables. It healed remarkably quickly (with lots of vet intervention obviously!) and "looked" normal within a week. I don't know however the long term implications of its bridle-related performance as it were though.
Back to original question, I hate strapped shut mouths and I too strip a flash bridle of that ridiculous strap upon sight. My aim has always been to ride without a nose band, in a snaffle on the buckle and I honestly believe it's down to training, training, training, mileage and experience.
If your horse gets "excited" jumping to the point you can't control it - stop trying to jump an entire course out of control. Jump one, come back to walk, etc., etc.
Hacking - you don't mount and leave the yard gates at 100 knots - there is a transition period of losing control. That is what you have to master - by lessons you learn with your horse and not the purchase of a tack shop.
My instructor told me "you either ride that horse properly or you strap it down".
Caveat: due to injury I've not ridden my chap out for a couple of months. Because my confidence had waned in that time he'll be wearing a running martingale. If he's a horror the following time I'll use a Pelham too, but leave the curb rein on his neck - it's a psychological support for ME, not him. Within a week or two he'll be back in his boring bridle and I'll be fully in control.
Luci07
Well-Known Member
Interesting post. I just go with what my horse feels comfortable in. I found the comment about getting the horse to work properly from behind interesting as mine physically finds this hard (he is still growing and backward). I am having a lot of exercises incorporated to make him sit and the first sign that he is tiring is when he will try to bear down on me. Right now I alternate between flash, grackle, no flash and even a micklem depending on what we are doing. Ask me in a year when hopefully he will have stopped growing and then I will tell you where we ended up!
Hoof_Prints
Well-Known Member
I ride two in just a cavesson and two in a flash. I read on here a few years back about preventing the jaw breaking so always put one on, although it is also to prevent the mouth opening too much and for aesthetic reasons. The two without a flash will open their mouths a bit but one has a curb chain which helps shut the mouth anyway, the other horse just doesn't really open his mouth much. I have a youngster in a flash as he is trying out evasive techniques which his muscle is building up and aching, and I want to avoid him learning opening his mouth works! he goes much better in a flash. My other horse just needs his mouth keeping shut, he has a weird habit of swinging his jaw from side to side and twisting his tongue when a bit excited or nervous, the flash stops him from doing this and in turn seems to stop him tensing up as much
JennBags
HHOSS Wonder Woman
Resurrecting this thread as today I rode my horse without his flash, and he was so much softer and less gobby. I have the flash as he has a most irritating habit of sticking his tongue out the side when he's stressing about something, but the flash doesn't prevent this at all.
Really glad I've taken it off, it won't go back on again!
Really glad I've taken it off, it won't go back on again!
moodymare1987
Well-Known Member
My horse has a hunter noseband with flash attachment. I use this to jump in. The flash isn't tight but I feel he does need it as he is cheeky and knows the jumping job too well. Tbh i put suits him he's happy in it and it's ideal for my working hunter classes.
I school him in a cavesson without the flash. He is still a work in progress at the moment but he's coming on loads. He couldn't hold himself when working he would rely on you to hold him up. My instructor has been fantastic and it's amazing how well he's come on in a short space of time. He lacks confidence in the school but jumping he's the opposite.
I school him in a cavesson without the flash. He is still a work in progress at the moment but he's coming on loads. He couldn't hold himself when working he would rely on you to hold him up. My instructor has been fantastic and it's amazing how well he's come on in a short space of time. He lacks confidence in the school but jumping he's the opposite.
stencilface
High upon a hillside
I haven't regularly ridden with a noseband in a few years, sometimes put one on for looks if I'm competing, but only loosely.
I cringed when an eventer cranked a friends horses flash and cavesson so tight before the dressage to make the horse yield. As a mere amateur I didn't point out that tension just breeds tension when forced, not the opposite. So her already tense in the dressage horse just became worse. She has since stopped talking advice from this friend ( a young rider) and I'm so glad, she spouted utter rubbish, and honestly was quite a stupid 20 year old!
I cringed when an eventer cranked a friends horses flash and cavesson so tight before the dressage to make the horse yield. As a mere amateur I didn't point out that tension just breeds tension when forced, not the opposite. So her already tense in the dressage horse just became worse. She has since stopped talking advice from this friend ( a young rider) and I'm so glad, she spouted utter rubbish, and honestly was quite a stupid 20 year old!
Tern
Well-Known Member
JFTD - You do make me laugh.
My mare is ridden in a cavesson with flash attachment although took the flash off once I found a bit she liked (Korsteel Flexi Full Cheek) and then for cross country she is in a pelham happy mouth ridden with two reins and I could possibly be putting a grackle.. main reasons as she gets gobby and excited in a snaffle and tends not to want to slow when galloping.
My mare is ridden in a cavesson with flash attachment although took the flash off once I found a bit she liked (Korsteel Flexi Full Cheek) and then for cross country she is in a pelham happy mouth ridden with two reins and I could possibly be putting a grackle.. main reasons as she gets gobby and excited in a snaffle and tends not to want to slow when galloping.
JGC
Well-Known Member
My current horse was a horse I knew three years ago, before his last owner bought him. In the two years she had him he got a permanent dent on his nose and when my vet vetted him, he pressed behind the ears around the TM joint and my poor boy reared up in the crossties. You can do some serious damage with a crank and double. I rode him for a while in a hackamore, then in a flash, then a Micklem, then a Dyon, but he's happiest in a drop. The vet suggests that, given K's problem, he's better with a snug noseband of some sort, as he can relax his jaw against it. I can still fit my hands down the side of it (and he can still open his mouth if he so desires!), so I wouldn't call it tight, but I wouldn't call it loose either, as he isn't as happy in a loose noseband.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Some horses are defiantly happier with some sort of noseband on and some are best with something that shuts the mouth .
I tried J ( the one with the jaw issue ) with no noseband he was not happy he prefers to wear a cavesson .
I always aim to hunt with cavessons all the four we have now have cavessons , I think it's a long day to have your mouth tied shut but you have to be flexible and do what optimal for each horse .
I tried J ( the one with the jaw issue ) with no noseband he was not happy he prefers to wear a cavesson .
I always aim to hunt with cavessons all the four we have now have cavessons , I think it's a long day to have your mouth tied shut but you have to be flexible and do what optimal for each horse .
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
Mine are all in cavessons. I used to ride in a flash as a kid (just because its seems to be default due to most bridles coming with the blasted things!) but never liked the idea so all mine have been in cavessons for some time including for eventing and BS. I find them pointless if I'm honest and feel all they do is mask a problem. And dont get me started on everyone wearing martingales which IMO is the same issue. Why is the default a martingale and a flash?
I also get really peeved at trying to find a nice bridles (looking as we speak) which does NOT have a flash loop on the noseband. If it doesn't then its normally a blingy dressage one which I also dont want (and hate cranks!). I'd ride without a noseband if I could (and it didn't look so odd) but sadly competition rules state we have to which again I find odd as a cavesson doesn't actually DO anything!
I also get really peeved at trying to find a nice bridles (looking as we speak) which does NOT have a flash loop on the noseband. If it doesn't then its normally a blingy dressage one which I also dont want (and hate cranks!). I'd ride without a noseband if I could (and it didn't look so odd) but sadly competition rules state we have to which again I find odd as a cavesson doesn't actually DO anything!
stencilface
High upon a hillside
I don't get why people like flashes, martingales and additional tack too, its just more to clean surely?!
viola
Well-Known Member
I wrote a long post about it on my blog in Feb this year so I have copied it here in case anyone wanted to read
"Why are we so obsessed with a closed mouth? Could it be because an opened mouth clearly shows all shortcomings in the training? Or perhaps because we fear lack of control? Maybe because our mark for submission will hit rock bottom if our horse plays Ed the Talking Horse throughout our dressage test?
With the hip bone connected
to the back bone,
and the back bone connected
to the neck bone,
and the neck bone connected
to the head bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!
James Weldon Johnson
I want to share my views with you but please don't treat it as a should, ought to do this way type of post. I would like to invite you to explore this issue with me, let's be open minded together (no pun intended here).
Symptoms vs Causes
Teeth issues aside, the way I see it, a horse that continuously or intermittently works with his mouth open or a tongue out or wriggled over the bit is communicating that the work is either too difficult, too stressful, too uncomfortable or simply painful. If we tighten our nosebands and punch additional holes in our flashes, to me, it's like trying to cure an upper respiratory infection by taping the coughing person's mouth shut. Or holding sneezing person's nose shut (apparently, sneezing is the closest we ever come to death caused by own body functions since all our breathing apparatus shuts so please don't fiddle with sneezing at home*).
Strapping the horse's mouth shut is simply fighting the symptom of something we might have no time or inclination to work on.
Symptoms can be positive too..For example, calm and content submission (perhaps cooperation would be a better word) is a symptom of good, structured, progressive training. Not something "to work on" per se...What's your take on this?
Not all issues we have with our horse's mouth come from current training. Many a time I go to teach someone with a new-ish horse who is said to "have always been like this". Large number of grassroots horses have some issues with their mouths because they have various physical issues that were skipped on, not worked on and continue to not be worked on. Similarly, ex-racehorses have variety of mouth behaviours more or less severe depending on their early training.
I find the best way to deal with the issue, as with many others, is to first of all, detach oneself from the horse's problem enough as to be able to look at the situation from "the outside" and not take horse's reactions personally (as many riders do).
Look from the Outside
Have you ever seen a bi-laterally supple, poll supple, elastic horse moving with lovely throughness that works with an open, tense mouth? I personally never have. "Mouthiness" can mean many things:
- I'm only learning
- I'm still unsure of the metal on my tongue
- my poll is tight
- I am not ready for this movement
- I am stressed about what you are about to do
- my poll is twisted the other way, can't you see?
- your direct rein is too strong, you are pulling me back
- your seat makes me unbalanced so I have to use my neck to help me and so my neck muscles tense and so my sternocephalicus muscle opens my mouth...
- my muscles are contracted on this side so when you pull I want to resist the discomfort I feel
- I'm on the forehand and losing my balance so I am getting worried
- I am scared
- I don't understand
- I hate the bit pressure on my tongue
There are some fantastically athletic horses with not a dot of pain in their bodies that do have "mouth issues". If you have a horse like that, it's the natural body asymmetry that is often the issue.
Assessing the situation
Be a detective. Sherlock if you must. Investigate which muscles in your horse's body are not doing the work they need to be doing for a riding horse to be able to do his job without discomfort.
Be a therapist. You know these doctors or nurses who look at you like a number on their paperwork and even though they might be very good at what they do, you know very well the difference between them and the other doctor and that other nurse who seem to genuinely want you to get better? Switch that "I want to understand how to help you" attitude in your schooling and I bet you that your horse will feel the difference too...It is also helpful for those riders who are short-tempered or get frustrated easily...
Be a Trainer. Push when you need to push but recognise signs of muscular tiredness. If your giraffe impersonating horse drops his head to the ground after an hour it doesn't mean he finally understood what to do...it means his neck muscles can no loner support his longissimus dorsi (long back muscle) and although everything slacks and relaxes it's not the right time to "get to the proper schooling" but time for a pat and rest...
We can still learn a lot from military horse training...they would ride young and older "green" horses with dismounted breaks...They schooled an element but as soon as horses showed discomfort or tiredness of back or neck muscles, they would get off and walk with the horse for a few minutes so the muscles could de-contract, blood flow to them again properly. Then they would get back on and continue.
Nowadays, many instructors are taught to "not let him win", "go after him until he gives in" and so they pass this knowledge on; many riders can't feel the minute tension problems because one gadget or another, tight flash or crank noseband are effectively hiding those gentle signs the horse is giving. When little signs are missed, they escalate and become larger and larger. The horse starts shouting in his own way.
Concentration and Connection
Have you ever watched young kids when they try to do something very well but the activity is still fairly new to them?
Bodies and minds of all mammals (and all animals with nervous systems?) are intricately connected. We say, when a horse chews or moves its jaw a little when we work with him, that he is "thinking". Yet, we see many 4 and 5 year old horses with their mouths strapped shut. Logic?
When you look at horse's head and neck muscles and realise how tongue muscle eventually connect to front legs' muscles via neck muscles it is worth asking a question: "How much a mouth problem is really a mouth problem and how much it is a body development process"? How much of a mouth issue is our own "let's get there faster" problem? When I school a horse I always try to tighten demands on myself as a rider and trainer first, polish my seat, my hands, my arms before rising standards for the horse's work.
If you are riding and competing for pleasure and results, stay safe and adjust your tack as you think you need to but spare a thought next time you are doing up your noseband or your flash...
What about you? What are your thoughts on this? If you teach, how do you address mouth opening in your clients' horses? What do you do if you have this issue with horses you ride?
* it's a here-say, I don't know of any proof for that claim"
Well, a bit long that was
"Why are we so obsessed with a closed mouth? Could it be because an opened mouth clearly shows all shortcomings in the training? Or perhaps because we fear lack of control? Maybe because our mark for submission will hit rock bottom if our horse plays Ed the Talking Horse throughout our dressage test?
With the hip bone connected
to the back bone,
and the back bone connected
to the neck bone,
and the neck bone connected
to the head bone,
Oh mercy how they scare!
James Weldon Johnson
I want to share my views with you but please don't treat it as a should, ought to do this way type of post. I would like to invite you to explore this issue with me, let's be open minded together (no pun intended here).
Symptoms vs Causes
Teeth issues aside, the way I see it, a horse that continuously or intermittently works with his mouth open or a tongue out or wriggled over the bit is communicating that the work is either too difficult, too stressful, too uncomfortable or simply painful. If we tighten our nosebands and punch additional holes in our flashes, to me, it's like trying to cure an upper respiratory infection by taping the coughing person's mouth shut. Or holding sneezing person's nose shut (apparently, sneezing is the closest we ever come to death caused by own body functions since all our breathing apparatus shuts so please don't fiddle with sneezing at home*).
Strapping the horse's mouth shut is simply fighting the symptom of something we might have no time or inclination to work on.
Symptoms can be positive too..For example, calm and content submission (perhaps cooperation would be a better word) is a symptom of good, structured, progressive training. Not something "to work on" per se...What's your take on this?
Not all issues we have with our horse's mouth come from current training. Many a time I go to teach someone with a new-ish horse who is said to "have always been like this". Large number of grassroots horses have some issues with their mouths because they have various physical issues that were skipped on, not worked on and continue to not be worked on. Similarly, ex-racehorses have variety of mouth behaviours more or less severe depending on their early training.
I find the best way to deal with the issue, as with many others, is to first of all, detach oneself from the horse's problem enough as to be able to look at the situation from "the outside" and not take horse's reactions personally (as many riders do).
Look from the Outside
Have you ever seen a bi-laterally supple, poll supple, elastic horse moving with lovely throughness that works with an open, tense mouth? I personally never have. "Mouthiness" can mean many things:
- I'm only learning
- I'm still unsure of the metal on my tongue
- my poll is tight
- I am not ready for this movement
- I am stressed about what you are about to do
- my poll is twisted the other way, can't you see?
- your direct rein is too strong, you are pulling me back
- your seat makes me unbalanced so I have to use my neck to help me and so my neck muscles tense and so my sternocephalicus muscle opens my mouth...
- my muscles are contracted on this side so when you pull I want to resist the discomfort I feel
- I'm on the forehand and losing my balance so I am getting worried
- I am scared
- I don't understand
- I hate the bit pressure on my tongue
There are some fantastically athletic horses with not a dot of pain in their bodies that do have "mouth issues". If you have a horse like that, it's the natural body asymmetry that is often the issue.
Assessing the situation
Be a detective. Sherlock if you must. Investigate which muscles in your horse's body are not doing the work they need to be doing for a riding horse to be able to do his job without discomfort.
Be a therapist. You know these doctors or nurses who look at you like a number on their paperwork and even though they might be very good at what they do, you know very well the difference between them and the other doctor and that other nurse who seem to genuinely want you to get better? Switch that "I want to understand how to help you" attitude in your schooling and I bet you that your horse will feel the difference too...It is also helpful for those riders who are short-tempered or get frustrated easily...
Be a Trainer. Push when you need to push but recognise signs of muscular tiredness. If your giraffe impersonating horse drops his head to the ground after an hour it doesn't mean he finally understood what to do...it means his neck muscles can no loner support his longissimus dorsi (long back muscle) and although everything slacks and relaxes it's not the right time to "get to the proper schooling" but time for a pat and rest...
We can still learn a lot from military horse training...they would ride young and older "green" horses with dismounted breaks...They schooled an element but as soon as horses showed discomfort or tiredness of back or neck muscles, they would get off and walk with the horse for a few minutes so the muscles could de-contract, blood flow to them again properly. Then they would get back on and continue.
Nowadays, many instructors are taught to "not let him win", "go after him until he gives in" and so they pass this knowledge on; many riders can't feel the minute tension problems because one gadget or another, tight flash or crank noseband are effectively hiding those gentle signs the horse is giving. When little signs are missed, they escalate and become larger and larger. The horse starts shouting in his own way.
Concentration and Connection
Have you ever watched young kids when they try to do something very well but the activity is still fairly new to them?
Bodies and minds of all mammals (and all animals with nervous systems?) are intricately connected. We say, when a horse chews or moves its jaw a little when we work with him, that he is "thinking". Yet, we see many 4 and 5 year old horses with their mouths strapped shut. Logic?
When you look at horse's head and neck muscles and realise how tongue muscle eventually connect to front legs' muscles via neck muscles it is worth asking a question: "How much a mouth problem is really a mouth problem and how much it is a body development process"? How much of a mouth issue is our own "let's get there faster" problem? When I school a horse I always try to tighten demands on myself as a rider and trainer first, polish my seat, my hands, my arms before rising standards for the horse's work.
If you are riding and competing for pleasure and results, stay safe and adjust your tack as you think you need to but spare a thought next time you are doing up your noseband or your flash...
What about you? What are your thoughts on this? If you teach, how do you address mouth opening in your clients' horses? What do you do if you have this issue with horses you ride?
* it's a here-say, I don't know of any proof for that claim
"Well, a bit long that was
stencilface
High upon a hillside
That's a fantastic post!
silv
Well-Known Member
great post Viola!
Turks
Well-Known Member
Of note, William Funnell on YouTube says most of us have the cavesson too low. It should sit just (1cm or so) below the site where the curve of the cheek meets the jaw (hope this explains - he just pointed to it!). He said its painful for the horse if you site it elsewhere and that's a very common problem. Having watched him I hoiked mine up a good hole or two
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
I have tons of tack on my jumping bridle - cavesson and snaffle, but sheepskin on the noseband, a five point breastplate with martingale and a neck strap.
Mine KNOWS when he jumps without a martingale, as we discovered, and throws his head in the air and almost breaks my nose. With the martingale on he doesn't do anything silly, so that's why we use it.
If I didn't have to, I wouldn't - I'd rather spend less of my life tacking up/untacking/ cleaning tack...
Turks
Well-Known Member
I don't see what's so wrong with a running martingale as if you don't need it it doesn't do anything? I think of it as v. different to a restrictive noseband in that respect. I don't see it as a problem for the horse, just more damn tack cleaning...
JennBags
HHOSS Wonder Woman
My RI disagrees with you Turks. The other week he was watching how my horse reacted to the additional pressure being exerted on his mouth by the martingale attachment, so he took it off, and my horse reacted very positively to it's removal - I only had it on because it was part of the breastplate. If your horse throws it's head up in the air (like khalswitz's does) then by all means use a running martingale, but if not, then why would you?