Panorama tonight - racing industry and slaughterhouses

[palo1]

Absolutely this - if people are prepared to commit fraud by counterfeiting chips to get a few £hundred for meat money then they will definitely PTS horses immediately and pocket the 'retirement fund'
For that sort of scheme to work it would need to be independently administered and you would have yards and yards of lovely TB retirement homes - which don't exist so clearly the retirement fund is rarely used for its intended purpose.

Even when they are rehomed they are given away to people who reschool a bit then rehome or sold for a nominal fee

That really isn't always the case. So many people I know personally have been supported by trainers to take on ex racehorses and in every case that I am aware of (5 horses currently) the 'fund' has been used to provide a new start: eg scanning and/or treatment of old or current injuries, 'transition' time at the trainer's yard whilst arrangements are made, feed is changed, farriery provided and other things depending on the horse. All 5 horses I know personally were sent off with a rug, headcollar, new set of shoes etc which doesn't sound much at all and represents little cost but certainly a degree of care about the animal. A friend of mine takes horses from training, rehabs them and then re-trains as dressage, eventers, RC horses etc. The trainers and sometimes the owners are definately part of that process and there has always been concern and support for those horses moving out of racing. I am not denying the scale of the issues highlighted btw, I am just saying that those attitudes, behaviours and outcomes are not wholesale.

 

[paddi22]

Do you know why the government subsidises racing? I've know they do but I don't know what return they get from it.

there was a document produced years ago that worked out what return the country gets from racing. like for every euro invested x euro was generated for the economy. I'll try and find it.

 

[palo1]

We get it. You are Panorama/BBC bashing, which is fair enough.

Doesn't stop the fact that part of the problem, the one that was highlighted on the programme, is with the very well funded Racing industry, though.

There are wider issues, but Racing is one of them, and is the best funded to sort its own dirty washing out.

I agree with that! Racing really must use its considerable money and influence to improve the lot of horses both directly in it's remit but also attitudes in the wider equestrian world.

 

[paddi22]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20458568.html

The study found that the industry plays a key role in supporting the rural economy, proving 9,500 jobs in the core industry and a further 5,700 jobs in directly related roles, including those in equine science and veterinary, farriers, and horse transport. When off-course betting and secondary employment are included, the total number of jobs supported comes to 28,900.
Close to €200m of bloodstock was sold overseas at public auction by Irish vendors, which, when taken together with private sales, nomination, and keep fees, results in effective exports of over €370m — larger than many other forms of agriculture.
Some 1.3m people attended the 356 race meetings at the 26 racecourses in Ireland last year — second only to the GAA championship in terms of attendance. More than 7,000 Irish people have an involvement in horse ownership and 25% of the country’s adult population have an interest in racing.
Despite the recession of the past decade, the report estimates that over €330m has been invested in breeding and racing facilities and infrastructure, nearly €100m of this from racecourses, with substantial future investment in progress.
Horse Racing Ireland chairman Joe Keeling said the industry needs to focus on ensuring that a long-term funding structure is put in place for the future.
“The headline figures in this new report back up the assertion that breeding and racing in Ireland is a unique industry with a wide rural reach and a sizeable economic impact at home, but also one that continues to set global standards on many of the most important measures for our sector,” said Mr Keeling.


I totally take these reports with a grain of salt. I'd like to see the breakdown of exactly how they get that figure. Even the figure of 5,700 jobs like farriers/vets. Most of those jobs would exist without racing, I don't know if they roles up all the income generated by them and not just the racing percentage.

 

[fankino04]

Ok so as we don't breed horses for meat in this country what about the idea that every passported horse ( so every horse) is instantly signed out of the food chain so won't be travelled to an abattoir and will need to be humanely PTS at home by knackerman or vet, for any owners who can't afford this they can complete a means tested thing and then claim on a welfare fund that is paid into by all the equine bodies (propertonate to number of horses bred for their sport) to fund the PTS.

 

[tristar]

'I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff'
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...the-nhs-overwhelmed-stuff-why-was-he-clapping

The British Thoroughbred Retraining Centre is a charity I follow and have done for many years. They put a statement on Facebook that I thought I’d post here for those that haven’t seen it.

“ The Panorama documentary was heartbreaking to watch. It wasn't fake news - it was real horses being destroyed in the most unethical manner.
BTRC formerly the TRC was the first organisation in the United Kingdom that focused on the welfare of Thoroughbreds when they left racing. Thirty years on and BTRC are proud to support British racehorse aftercare by providing a safety net to care for the majority of vulnerable Thoroughbreds in the UK. BTRC wish to promote good practices and educate about Aftercare and work with the Racing Industry, Horse Welfare Board, Trainers, Owners, Breeders, RoR and other retraining centres so that horse welfare is always at the top of the agenda.
However BTRC is not a sanctuary and despite the concerted efforts of our dedicated team of retraining staff a minority of our horses need to be euthanased on welfare grounds - but it is how. The horse is pampered that morning and usually gets a run out in the field before having as many carrots or their favourite biscuits (digestives are very popular) as they can eat. They are given a light sedation before being taken by their trainer, groom and BTRC's Consultant Vet to the field (and any of the team that wish to say goodbye) where we whisper thank you for allowing us to be part of their life and for trying so hard and kiss them on the nose before they are given the final injection. There are tears, many tears and the walk back to the yard is a long and quiet one with an empty headcollar ... it is always before lunch so the team can have a some time to gather their thoughts and have a cup of tea. This is love, this is compassion, this is respect - all horses deserve to have a life well lived and that includes a peaceful and painfree death whenever possible. For many horses and other animals this may well mean an abattoir and many will argue that abattoir's are a vital animal welfare resource for injured and old animals - this may be true but the experience including death should NOT cause the animal further welfare issues and suffering. It is the responsibility of the Goverment and Food Standards Agency to monitor the operating standards at abattoir's to ensure that ALL animals, regardless of breed or type are treated humanely. #becauseweloveanimals ???? #becauseweloveTBs ❤?#britishracehorseaftercare???”

Certainly one of the more heartfelt but sensible statements. And leads to the question why does the racing industry think it’s ok to allow their vulnerable horses to be picked up by a charity and pts out of charity money? The BTRC do extensive vet checks when they intake horses, why can’t owners do these before the horses leave the trainers yard so they know whether the horse is going to be able to have a quality life or not?

The British Thoroughbred Retraining Centre is a charity I follow and have done for many years. They put a statement on Facebook that I thought I’d post here for those that haven’t seen it.

“ The Panorama documentary was heartbreaking to watch. It wasn't fake news - it was real horses being destroyed in the most unethical manner.
BTRC formerly the TRC was the first organisation in the United Kingdom that focused on the welfare of Thoroughbreds when they left racing. Thirty years on and BTRC are proud to support British racehorse aftercare by providing a safety net to care for the majority of vulnerable Thoroughbreds in the UK. BTRC wish to promote good practices and educate about Aftercare and work with the Racing Industry, Horse Welfare Board, Trainers, Owners, Breeders, RoR and other retraining centres so that horse welfare is always at the top of the agenda.
However BTRC is not a sanctuary and despite the concerted efforts of our dedicated team of retraining staff a minority of our horses need to be euthanased on welfare grounds - but it is how. The horse is pampered that morning and usually gets a run out in the field before having as many carrots or their favourite biscuits (digestives are very popular) as they can eat. They are given a light sedation before being taken by their trainer, groom and BTRC's Consultant Vet to the field (and any of the team that wish to say goodbye) where we whisper thank you for allowing us to be part of their life and for trying so hard and kiss them on the nose before they are given the final injection. There are tears, many tears and the walk back to the yard is a long and quiet one with an empty headcollar ... it is always before lunch so the team can have a some time to gather their thoughts and have a cup of tea. This is love, this is compassion, this is respect - all horses deserve to have a life well lived and that includes a peaceful and painfree death whenever possible. For many horses and other animals this may well mean an abattoir and many will argue that abattoir's are a vital animal welfare resource for injured and old animals - this may be true but the experience including death should NOT cause the animal further welfare issues and suffering. It is the responsibility of the Goverment and Food Standards Agency to monitor the operating standards at abattoir's to ensure that ALL animals, regardless of breed or type are treated humanely. #becauseweloveanimals ???? #becauseweloveTBs ❤?#britishracehorseaftercare???”

Certainly one of the more heartfelt but sensible statements. And leads to the question why does the racing industry think it’s ok to allow their vulnerable horses to be picked up by a charity and pts out of charity money? The BTRC do extensive vet checks when they intake horses, why can’t owners do these before the horses leave the trainers yard so they know whether the horse is going to be able to have a quality life or not?

probably because they are they are the meanest bxstards you are ever likely to meet, and they know exactly what happens to those horses and take the charities for fools

 

[tristar]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20458568.html

The study found that the industry plays a key role in supporting the rural economy, proving 9,500 jobs in the core industry and a further 5,700 jobs in directly related roles, including those in equine science and veterinary, farriers, and horse transport. When off-course betting and secondary employment are included, the total number of jobs supported comes to 28,900.
Close to €200m of bloodstock was sold overseas at public auction by Irish vendors, which, when taken together with private sales, nomination, and keep fees, results in effective exports of over €370m — larger than many other forms of agriculture.
Some 1.3m people attended the 356 race meetings at the 26 racecourses in Ireland last year — second only to the GAA championship in terms of attendance. More than 7,000 Irish people have an involvement in horse ownership and 25% of the country’s adult population have an interest in racing.
Despite the recession of the past decade, the report estimates that over €330m has been invested in breeding and racing facilities and infrastructure, nearly €100m of this from racecourses, with substantial future investment in progress.
Horse Racing Ireland chairman Joe Keeling said the industry needs to focus on ensuring that a long-term funding structure is put in place for the future.
“The headline figures in this new report back up the assertion that breeding and racing in Ireland is a unique industry with a wide rural reach and a sizeable economic impact at home, but also one that continues to set global standards on many of the most important measures for our sector,” said Mr Keeling.


I totally take these reports with a grain of salt. I'd like to see the breakdown of exactly how they get that figure. Even the figure of 5,700 jobs like farriers/vets. Most of those jobs would exist without racing, I don't know if they roles up all the income generated by them and not just the racing percentage.

shame they did not mention the was it 27 million spent on a new stand at the curragh, but have the shame of horses being disposed and rehomed of by charities and slaughtered away from home

 

[Mule]

Another question is why are so many Irish thoroubreds being sent to a UK abattoir? There are several abbatoirs that slaughter horses in Ireland. Why the need to export them?

 

[ycbm]

as well as securing the horse's future that would also possibly make more people consider an ex racehorse. I won't have another because I'm now saddled with the responsibility and bills for a horse that is unable to do any job. it's too much of a risk to take another one. However I'd be happy to have a permanent loan with some sort of safety net, I already have 2 permanent loans from other sources.

Ditto. I was "lucky" that a hot spell exposed just how seriously my racer's neck was hurting him, and PTS. I will never buy another but I would happily long term foster/loan.

 

[ycbm]

Do you know why the government subsidises racing? I've know they do but I don't know what return they get from it.

Betting taxes are ginormous amounts of money.
.

 

[Michen]

Ditto. I was "lucky" that a hot spell exposed just how seriously my racer's neck was hurting him, and PTS. I will never buy another but I would happily long term foster/loan.

I had to literally sit on my hands this week as I have Bear's stable empty and a family friend has a young flat racer that needs rehoming. Thought it could be a great idea to add a 3rd walking vet bill into the mix.

I was so, so close...then common sense came flooding back.

I'd consider an older NH horse- I think there's an arguement that if they've made it to a decent age without breaking then they may be ok..

 

[tristar]

theres great value in older horses who are tough and going strong, of all sorts really, i love an older horse, have a 20 yr old whos tough a s old boots

the younger tbs need to grow on to 8 years and strengthen up

 

[ester]

That really isn't always the case. So many people I know personally have been supported by trainers to take on ex racehorses and in every case that I am aware of (5 horses currently) the 'fund' has been used to provide a new start: eg scanning and/or treatment of old or current injuries, 'transition' time at the trainer's yard whilst arrangements are made, feed is changed, farriery provided and other things depending on the horse. All 5 horses I know personally were sent off with a rug, headcollar, new set of shoes etc which doesn't sound much at all and represents little cost but certainly a degree of care about the animal. A friend of mine takes horses from training, rehabs them and then re-trains as dressage, eventers, RC horses etc. The trainers and sometimes the owners are definately part of that process and there has always been concern and support for those horses moving out of racing. I am not denying the scale of the issues highlighted btw, I am just saying that those attitudes, behaviours and outcomes are not wholesale.

See to me that seems to early for any 'retirement' fund to be used and are things that should just be automatically covered by the current owners. There's nothing backing them up physically if they turn out to be more broken once they are 'sent off'. It's once they hit that point that concerns me more (and start doing the rounds of multiple homes)

 

[Tiddlypom]

Another question is why are so many Irish thoroubreds being sent to a UK abattoir? There are several abbatoirs that slaughter horses in Ireland. Why the need to export them?

This has has been rased before on this thread. The answer can only be that there is something very fishy going on - it should not be cost effective to do this, never mind the ethical side ?.

 

[Mule]

This has has been rased before on this thread. The answer can only be that there is something very fishy going on - it should not be cost effective to do this, never mind the ethical side ?.

Interesting

 

[palo1]

See to me that seems to early for any 'retirement' fund to be used and are things that should just be automatically covered by the current owners. There's nothing backing them up physically if they turn out to be more broken once they are 'sent off'. It's once they hit that point that concerns me more (and start doing the rounds of multiple homes)

Yep, you are right about that. What these horses have is a slightly better ticket out of racing, not exactly a retirement fund. I think it does help them toward a better future but I wouldn't argue with your point at all. A big problem with a formalised retirement fund is that why limit it to TB racehorses, especially in view of the warmblood wastage rate? I understand the arguments about money and numbers but philosophically and morally that is tricky.

ETA -If or when an ex-racehorse needed a fund for health/retirement, if that was some way down the line from it's racing career wouldn't that present huge conflicts about who was responsible; should that fund take on, for example, the poor care or neglect of a horse long after racing? Wouldn't that potentially be a licence for people who didn't have the funds to support a tb to take them on more often, knowing that there might be some comeback to racing? As it is there are enough horses that have issues with tack, routine care so the last thing ex racers need is to be 'easier' for people without the funds and set up to deal with them. I get what others have said about a retirement fund encouraging people to take on ex racers but at the same time is that really the best way forward? In another scenario if racing paid for specific retirement settings for tbs (as in groups of them managed by a racing body) would that be open to problems too?

 

[meleeka]

https://www.racingpost.com/news/wel...ractices-shown-in-panorama-documentary/501314

Interesting article which implies that these practices came as as shock to the head of Welfare. The Head of the BHA also implies it’s not an English problem, merely an Irish one. Are they really that naive?!

 

[meleeka]

Good article here https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/where-now-after-panorama-expose/193382

 

[Wishfilly]

Yep, you are right about that. What these horses have is a slightly better ticket out of racing, not exactly a retirement fund. I think it does help them toward a better future but I wouldn't argue with your point at all. A big problem with a formalised retirement fund is that why limit it to TB racehorses, especially in view of the warmblood wastage rate? I understand the arguments about money and numbers but philosophically and morally that is tricky.

ETA -If or when an ex-racehorse needed a fund for health/retirement, if that was some way down the line from it's racing career wouldn't that present huge conflicts about who was responsible; should that fund take on, for example, the poor care or neglect of a horse long after racing? Wouldn't that potentially be a licence for people who didn't have the funds to support a tb to take them on more often, knowing that there might be some comeback to racing? As it is there are enough horses that have issues with tack, routine care so the last thing ex racers need is to be 'easier' for people without the funds and set up to deal with them. I get what others have said about a retirement fund encouraging people to take on ex racers but at the same time is that really the best way forward? In another scenario if racing paid for specific retirement settings for tbs (as in groups of them managed by a racing body) would that be open to problems too?

I think a specialised home of rest for TBs should be fine. Realistically, it's very hard to prove when a problem was caused- either via racing or via later owners. Many, many raced TBs do turn out to have kissing spines or other similar problems, and I think making it a bit less of a risk for an owner to take one on is not the end of the world.

A lot of people who would look after a horse well may be put off taking on a horse at 7 or 10 who may need a long retirement, and that option existing for those who prove to have a health condition that makes them field sound but unridable is no bad thing in my mind. And it's not like racing as an industry does not have lots of money available.

I think the difficulty comes with those TBs who flake out early (and these are often the ones that seem to end up in slaughter). In theory, there ought to be a home out there for a 6yo TB who has never raced.

Perhaps the investment needs to be in charities which can help to secure both the long term and short term future of horses.

That said, there will never be a charity able to support literally 100s of horses a year, and it's clear there aren't private homes for these horses either. So I do think some restriction on breeding is necessary.

I also think the big warmblood studs (on the continent especially) should do more, but there is not quite the same money available to them (not that they are poor) as there is in racing.

 

[Wishfilly]

https://www.racingpost.com/news/wel...ractices-shown-in-panorama-documentary/501314

Interesting article which implies that these practices came as as shock to the head of Welfare. The Head of the BHA also implies it’s not an English problem, merely an Irish one. Are they really that naive?!

Sorry, but I think this is bollocks. Maybe the actual practice inside the abattoir was a surprise, but the number of horses going to slaughter is only a surprise if they are actively ignoring the problem. And if they know lots of horses are going to slaughter, then perhaps they should take an interest into conditions at the abattoir (whether these are poor or not, I know some people have given explanations of why horses are killed in a certain way).

I also don't see how they can say this is solely an Irish problem. These horses are being slaughtered in GB. Some are born in GB. They regularly race in GB and will change ownership between British and Irish hands in their lifetime. I don't know the proportion going from British ownership and Irish ownership and British and Irish homes (whether trainers or otherwise) but I am confident in saying the number going from British homes with British owners is not "none".

It's easy to close your eyes and pass the blame. It's not easy to do something meaningful about the problem.

 

[ycbm]

Good article here https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/where-now-after-panorama-expose/193382

Really good essay, that.
.

 

[Wishfilly]

Unfortunately, I thought this "Put simply, society won’t tolerate such irresponsibility, and cowardly or cynical opacity won’t make the problem go away." in the closing paragraphs was naive.

Society is more than happy to tolerate that, and has done for a very long time.

People get upset when the see a horse breaking a leg in the Grand National, but it's easy to ignore 10 youngsters being sent to slaughter because it doesn't (usually) happen on national TV.

 

[Mule]

Good article here https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/where-now-after-panorama-expose/193382

Good article

 

[ycbm]

Unfortunately, I thought this "Put simply, society won’t tolerate such irresponsibility, and cowardly or cynical opacity won’t make the problem go away." in the closing paragraphs was naive.

Society is more than happy to tolerate that, and has done for a very long time.

People get upset when the see a horse breaking a leg in the Grand National, but it's easy to ignore 10 youngsters being sent to slaughter because it doesn't (usually) happen on national TV.

I think social media is changing that.
.

 

[Mule]

I think social media is changing that.
.

Agreed

 

[tristar]

Good article here https://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/where-now-after-panorama-expose/193382

not mentioned in there the contribution of early breaking and racing as a factor re physical breakdown necessitating early destruction of immature horses

 

[jofwigby]

Good article

The only article worth reading "That’s racing’s underlying shame: it doesn’t know how big its problem is."
It's really the whole of the UK Horse Industry and if you ask, they laugh, pat you on the head and tell you to go away. The Loss of Use Brand was probably the most effective welfare instrument we ever had, ahhhh happy days

 

[RachelFerd]

So late to this discussion as I was away last week. There are clearly three interrelated stories here.

1. That the abattoir (and proably many others) is not being run to a suitably high standard
2. That there is likely some type of underlying corruption going on here (switched microchips, incorrectly marked passports, not moving horses in line with new NI Protocol/Brexit rules)
3. That the racing industry has a long-standing problem with treating horses as a commodity, poor welfare practices and an inconsistent approach to rehoming/retraining

I'm a former racing industry work rider (10 yrs) and rubbish P2P jockey. I'm also a (mainly) plant-based diet animal lover who owns two super ex-racehorses. I also know quite a lot about customs and international trade through my work. I've got far too many opinions on what I think the industry does wrong and how they could do it better.

Although I no longer go racing or follow racing, i'll always have a desire for them to do the right thing and improve their overarching position on welfare and end-of-racing plans for horses, because the social contract for the continuation of horse racing will also impact the social contract for other competition activity being acceptable and for riding and owning horses to remain something that society accepts. For us to enjoy our hobbies, we need racing to do the right thing, not get shut down in a media storm. Selfish of me, perhaps.

I think there's some super obvious stuff that the panorama programme raises:

1. BBC is within its rights to create and broadcast investigate journalism. That is a basic tenet of living in a free democracy.
2. Any abbatoir that doesn't meet welfare standards set out should not be allowed to continue to operate in that way
3. Horses shouldn't be travelling across the sea to be killed
4. There are clear corruption issues around failure to mark passports as not-for-human-consumption correctly
5. People must be breaking rules around movement of horses from IE to GB for this to be continuing to happen - so international trade law is being broken
6. It is obvious that the Irish racing authority is beset with far more problems here than the BHA

Now I am a realist and totally get that many horses aren't suitable for rehoming and there are fates worse than death. But death or retirement should be appropriately managed and be dignified.

The racing authorities (I speak largely about the BHA because that is the one that I know in detail, but sentiment would apply to all) need to have an approach which is CONSISTENT, THOROUGH and FULLY TRACKABLE. Every horse that has entered a licensed yard should have a publicly accessible record of what has happened in retirement. Each owner should be paying into a fund to ensure that a basic veterinary and temperament assessment is made to ensure that horses are suitably rehomed. I believe a system similar to the one that runs in Hong Kong would work well. Each horse would have a soundness work-up with back x-rays before entering a period of either turnout and rest (if required) or going straight into a 2-week temperament and ridden assessment with suitably experienced staff at approved centres. Then you could filter horses into the following groups;

1. Horses that for physical or mental problems should be PTS humanely
2. Horses that have a potential future as a lower level hack or riding club type go into a retraining programme for 1-3 months to help prep them for the likely more novicey rider, and then go onto permanent loan agreements
3. Horses with genuine potential for future affiliated competition careers do not have to enter into the retraining programme (but can do so if owners/trainers prefer), and are available for loan *or* sale to riders who can evidence suitable skill and knowledge to rehome them directly.

There would be a 'get out' clause for specific instances where an owner had a suitable home (with someone who could evidence skill and knowledge) that they wanted the horse to go to directly.

The problem with the current position is that it is a totally random free-for-all with ZERO accountability and traceability. And I've got no idea what RoR are doing with the funds they get (well, I do have an idea... but it isn't worth getting into that argument anyway!)

 

[Wishfilly]

I think social media is changing that.
.

How often is this side of racing actually discussed on social media, though?

There's a lot of people who will come out and slate the grand national, but very few people are aware of the day to day problems around racing in general, let alone thoroughbred breeding more widely.

 

[honetpot]

As above, the back story to this story is to explain why anyone would want to travel a significantly lame horse for slaughter, there are regulations in place and most farmers are very careful about what they send in as they do not want the animal rejected, or be fined.
There are very specific guidance about how horses should be handled, so the abattoir must have known it was liable for breaking those rules, so there must be a some financial advantage somewhere.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/red-mea...g-handling-and-holding-animals#unload-animals
https://www.farminguk.com/news/nort...00-for-moving-unfit-and-lame-sheep_45332.html