Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

Binky01 said:
I like you :) [In a non-gay way!]

That's my exact point to my first original post on this thread. You're similar to what I beleive, some parts I'll use because it'scommon sense and it works...but not brain washed into the whole hog of things and DO actually see right and wrong with technques and don't just follow it like a religious trend!

No answers have still been put to my questions I asked repeated times as I was genuinely trying to understand the reasoning behind his methods mentioned here. All my questions were posted twice, and surely, rather than being slated on how 'narrow minded' we are on their FB page, one of them could have spread the Parelli love and enlightened me on what exactly Pat was doing instead? It's all fine saying 'they just don't understand' and 'bad reading' etc...but why not explain what was going on then if it's nothing that bad or out of rationality for the horse? Does that mean they do not know why he actually did this if not one person, out of all of them commenting on that status, can reply to any of the genuine questions on here? It just seems a hideous cover-up and being brainwashed blind into thinking everything that is done from the 'head person' is seen as Gods words himself so therefore unquestionable.

Answers on a post card please! :)
Click to expand...

Excellent post. WHY won't they explain? It IS rather like a cult; no questioning, blind acceptance.... It's as if they have something to hide and only 'members' are allowed enlightenment... what's THAT all about????
 
For those of you munching on popcorn, you best call redenbocker, as this one may tip you on your A$$ causing you to spill your beloved munchies!:eek:

yikes, I am nearly blind from reading every word of the last 18pages. I joined this forum an hour ago, soley for the purpose of posting to this thread, take it how you will. I have been a parelli student for close to 10yrs. many have expressed a desire to hear from a parelli student/follower, so here I am, I am going to say my peace and I may or may not be back, take that how you will.

I have been riding for my entire life, quite a few decades, and have riden hunters/jumpers/dressage/western prior to becoming natural. I know that parelli followers and parelli corporate are reading this and I hope they hear me for what I am about to say. I, like many others, are not up for saying this on the parelli forum. For reasons i only know of my own. So here it is annonomous, as I need no parelli police to try to shut me up.

I am close to becoming a parelli instructor and now am bowing out. I simply cannot stand behind something/someone that uses such poor judgement, even though it is only occasional, when it happens, it is a category 10 hurricane. I don't think I could stand having to defend this again and again as an instructor. Nor do I want a whole butt load of money to go down the drain because they themselves have destroyed the good parelli name that I chose to franchise.

The last year has been hell as far as the world view of parelli, and I am concerned for the parelli organization. MANY parelli students are put off by this incident, and a few others lately I might add. Some, but rest assured,far from ALL parelli students are mindless sheep in a cult. TRUST me. there are some, and I can't stand them. I loath the hypocrite. And this incident was hypocrity at it best. I have NEVER seen this technique in all my years studying NH, from any instructor no matter how big they were. I don't understand it my self. However, I wasn't there and can say that my judgement of whether or not the horse was in distress will be reserved for after I can see it for myself. having said that, what I don't like is the fact that sooooooo many people, both pro/anti parelli are disgusted by it. It should have ended with the saddle pad. This is not the venue for this kind of extreme situation.

Having said that,

Everyone makes mistakes, and if anyone here has NEVER gone on longer than you should have with a horse

call GOD and tell him to get out of your seat!

99% of what I have learned from Parelli has been kind, fair, safe, and helped EVERY horse I have ever used it on. I have seen far worse abuse outside of NH than I have ever seen inside of it. Though ANY technique is only as good as the person using it. I have seen thousands of people transformed from being inept with horses to being great with them, simply from the parelli home study system. I have seen more amazing things done with horses in NH than I ever saw in the traditional world.

As for an explanation for WHY he did it, I have none, I don't understand it either. I understand some of it, but I get lost past the saddle pad. Everything from there on, based on written account of the ordeal here and on the parelli forum, which are identical BTW, is fear, intimidation, force, and mechanics. ALL of which are NOT taught by the parellis. I have NEVER seen a student try anything like this, and something like this cropped up several years ago, but no one that I know of was stupid enough to try it at home.

So please stop saying we are a cult. we are not. some act like it, but I avoid them too. I know how you feel being put down by the handful of NH students that look down on you because you "don't put the relationship first", and i disagree with this practice, as do most of the parelli students I have read from on the forum and know in person. The program is a good one, and while THAT video of Linda and the one eyed horse is not great in my honest opinion, it is far from abuse, and that is not the sum of the whole, of the program.

I can say, that one should be wary of judging what you don't understand. But I also believe that if people don't understand you, you didn't present a good enough example of what you are trying to show. I watch everything, EVERYTHING, with an eagle eye, and NEVER follow blindly what someone says just because of who they are. this goes for Pat and Linda, as well as olympic gold medalists. I flat out disagree with anything rolkur like, if it is behind the vertical, I find that the person using it, usually has little of anything to offer me. However, I do listen, and give each person a chance to truley understand where they are coming from. I watch to see if the "proof" is shown by what they preach, and trust me, I will be watching to see if there is 'proof' from this ordeal too.

I am HEAVY into PNH, and the things I have seen lately scare me. it is giving PNH a very bad name, and one that I think if they continue on like this, will be hard pressed to recover from. Someone said something to the effect that, they wonder why, all of a sudden, Pat and Linda seem to be destroying the very name they have worked so hard to build. This is only speculation on my part and mine alone, I fear they have sold thier souls to the corporate devil. Maybe they infact are trashing themselves to get out of something that contractually they don't otherwise know how. I don't know. It all is so bewildering to me, how mainly Pat, is running off the at the mouth lately and causing a great many stir, even inside our own world. He is a great horseman, and I love linda greatly. But I just can't stand behind this if it is going to continue. I dont see how they can think they will get new students by these "incidents". And one would think that by it hurting thier bottom line, they would think better of it. but apparently not.

I do want to also say, that he owes NO ONE an explanation. Not you, not me, not even the savvy club. We are no more entitled to the justification to what he did, than he is to why we do what we do. However, it would be a stupid thing to NOT do so. Corporate suicide in my book. And if all the so called blind followers think that standing up for them on FB will protect them or help them. they are so wrong. it just feeds fuel to the fire. this thread proves it. Because it means they speak out of an unquestioning loyalty and not regarding the facts, and by putting other people down who do question something that clearly looks like abouse, even if it is just a "misunderstanding" which makes thier opinion useless in most peoples eyes.

I think the incident happened out of arrogance, ego, embarrasment, frustration, and maybe even a tad of loonacy.

PAT and LINDA

you need to wake up before your empire crumbles, if it indeed hasn't already. your foundation is getting stress cracks, and those can bring down the tallest of buildings during the slightest of breeze. :cool:
 
^

Thankyou.

Beautifully put and an obvious huge effort to take the time to post that, so thankyou.

*applauds*

I loath the hypocrite. And this incident was hypocrity at it best. I have NEVER seen this technique in all my years studying NH, from any instructor no matter how big they were. I don't understand it my self. However, I wasn't there and can say that my judgement of whether or not the horse was in distress will be reserved for after I can see it for myself. having said that, what I don't like is the fact that sooooooo many people, both pro/anti parelli are disgusted by it. It should have ended with the saddle pad. This is not the venue for this kind of extreme situation.
Click to expand...

That was my point exactly. I understood it up till that point too, hence,why I was questioning if anyone could asnwer the reasoning to the latter part of the 'show' which happened after that.


Papa - I honestly cannot remember. The masons came to mind....then I remembered that science one off Mock the Week. And got confused. LOL.
 
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I`m with Binky .......



Uttmost respect and round of applause from me :)

PS ..... Love your signature ... copious amounts of lol !!
 
tongue~n~cheek said:
For those of you munching on popcorn, you best call redenbocker, as this one may tip you on your A$$ causing you to spill your beloved munchies!:eek:

yikes, I am nearly blind from reading every word of the last 18pages. I joined this forum an hour ago, soley for the purpose of posting to this thread, take it how you will. I have been a parelli student for close to 10yrs. many have expressed a desire to hear from a parelli student/follower, so here I am, I am going to say my peace and I may or may not be back, take that how you will.

I have been riding for my entire life, quite a few decades, and have riden hunters/jumpers/dressage/western prior to becoming natural. I know that parelli followers and parelli corporate are reading this and I hope they hear me for what I am about to say. I, like many others, are not up for saying this on the parelli forum. For reasons i only know of my own. So here it is annonomous, as I need no parelli police to try to shut me up.

I am close to becoming a parelli instructor and now am bowing out. I simply cannot stand behind something/someone that uses such poor judgement, even though it is only occasional, when it happens, it is a category 10 hurricane. I don't think I could stand having to defend this again and again as an instructor. Nor do I want a whole butt load of money to go down the drain because they themselves have destroyed the good parelli name that I chose to franchise.

The last year has been hell as far as the world view of parelli, and I am concerned for the parelli organization. MANY parelli students are put off by this incident, and a few others lately I might add. Some, but rest assured,far from ALL parelli students are mindless sheep in a cult. TRUST me. there are some, and I can't stand them. I loath the hypocrite. And this incident was hypocrity at it best. I have NEVER seen this technique in all my years studying NH, from any instructor no matter how big they were. I don't understand it my self. However, I wasn't there and can say that my judgement of whether or not the horse was in distress will be reserved for after I can see it for myself. having said that, what I don't like is the fact that sooooooo many people, both pro/anti parelli are disgusted by it. It should have ended with the saddle pad. This is not the venue for this kind of extreme situation.

Having said that,

Everyone makes mistakes, and if anyone here has NEVER gone on longer than you should have with a horse

call GOD and tell him to get out of your seat!

99% of what I have learned from Parelli has been kind, fair, safe, and helped EVERY horse I have ever used it on. I have seen far worse abuse outside of NH than I have ever seen inside of it. Though ANY technique is only as good as the person using it. I have seen thousands of people transformed from being inept with horses to being great with them, simply from the parelli home study system. I have seen more amazing things done with horses in NH than I ever saw in the traditional world.

As for an explanation for WHY he did it, I have none, I don't understand it either. I understand some of it, but I get lost past the saddle pad. Everything from there on, based on written account of the ordeal here and on the parelli forum, which are identical BTW, is fear, intimidation, force, and mechanics. ALL of which are NOT taught by the parellis. I have NEVER seen a student try anything like this, and something like this cropped up several years ago, but no one that I know of was stupid enough to try it at home.

So please stop saying we are a cult. we are not. some act like it, but I avoid them too. I know how you feel being put down by the handful of NH students that look down on you because you "don't put the relationship first", and i disagree with this practice, as do most of the parelli students I have read from on the forum and know in person. The program is a good one, and while THAT video of Linda and the one eyed horse is not great in my honest opinion, it is far from abuse, and that is not the sum of the whole, of the program.

I can say, that one should be wary of judging what you don't understand. But I also believe that if people don't understand you, you didn't present a good enough example of what you are trying to show. I watch everything, EVERYTHING, with an eagle eye, and NEVER follow blindly what someone says just because of who they are. this goes for Pat and Linda, as well as olympic gold medalists. I flat out disagree with anything rolkur like, if it is behind the vertical, I find that the person using it, usually has little of anything to offer me. However, I do listen, and give each person a chance to truley understand where they are coming from. I watch to see if the "proof" is shown by what they preach, and trust me, I will be watching to see if there is 'proof' from this ordeal too.

I am HEAVY into PNH, and the things I have seen lately scare me. it is giving PNH a very bad name, and one that I think if they continue on like this, will be hard pressed to recover from. Someone said something to the effect that, they wonder why, all of a sudden, Pat and Linda seem to be destroying the very name they have worked so hard to build. This is only speculation on my part and mine alone, I fear they have sold thier souls to the corporate devil. Maybe they infact are trashing themselves to get out of something that contractually they don't otherwise know how. I don't know. It all is so bewildering to me, how mainly Pat, is running off the at the mouth lately and causing a great many stir, even inside our own world. He is a great horseman, and I love linda greatly. But I just can't stand behind this if it is going to continue. I dont see how they can think they will get new students by these "incidents". And one would think that by it hurting thier bottom line, they would think better of it. but apparently not.

I do want to also say, that he owes NO ONE an explanation. Not you, not me, not even the savvy club. We are no more entitled to the justification to what he did, than he is to why we do what we do. However, it would be a stupid thing to NOT do so. Corporate suicide in my book. And if all the so called blind followers think that standing up for them on FB will protect them or help them. they are so wrong. it just feeds fuel to the fire. this thread proves it. Because it means they speak out of an unquestioning loyalty and not regarding the facts, and by putting other people down who do question something that clearly looks like abouse, even if it is just a "misunderstanding" which makes thier opinion useless in most peoples eyes.

I think the incident happened out of arrogance, ego, embarrasment, frustration, and maybe even a tad of loonacy.

PAT and LINDA

you need to wake up before your empire crumbles, if it indeed hasn't already. your foundation is getting stress cracks, and those can bring down the tallest of buildings during the slightest of breeze. :cool:
Click to expand...
thank you. that really is a thoughtful, openminded and interesting post,and has convinced me all parelli followers arnt the same sheeplike morons.
:) they would do well to listen to people like you a bit more...
 
Thank you for that reply Tongueincheek - it's about the most sensible pro Parelli post I'v seen on here. Personally I've never liked the Parellis or their methods but am aware that they are very effective when used knowledgeably.
Regarding this latest embarrassment, I can only assume Pats ego has finally gotten the better of him and he has started to believe his own propaganda.
 
Tongu~n~cheek, thank you for that post. It was very interesting and made a lot of sense. I KNOW not all parelli advocates are mindless drones and that some perfectly 'normal' people use Parelli techniques when handling and training their horses. HOWEVER, I do not believe that Parelli can lay claim to have created all the techniques that they use and that very many of them are nothing more than common sense.
I do believe, also, that you are wrong in saying that PP owes no one an explanation. He has marketed his name and his 'methods', sold them to the general public and is making a ton of money from them. Therefore he DOES have an obligation to justify his actions to his 'shareholders'.
 
DISGUTING - THIS is why I don't agree with parelli, it's nasty and forceful. I have a mare that came to be with a terribly bruised mouth, awful teeth, and a morbid fear of a bridle, with time and patience we sorted her out - it took alot more than 20 mins of sheer force!!
It is ironic that the horses on the yard that "do" parelli are the ones that won't hack out, nap, buck etc etc.....
 
^^^^ me too...yes I have just read the entirety of this post to finally get a sensible answer (plus those from Kat27 - I think that's the user name...) and now I think I need a nap! :p
 
Troylimbo1 said:
Can I just highlight the section where you say you were 'appalled' that you saw Monty Roberts using a bucking strap in the same way as Pat Parelli.
He certainly DOES NOT put rope into the horses mouths - he actually ties it from the saddle to the head piece of the bridle so that the horse cannot lower his head to allow him to buck.
Mr Roberts is not even in the same league as this plonker (putting it mildly)
Click to expand...

See link to Monty Roberts using the gum line (on 1500 horses apparently?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5O4JHJhiUE
 
lastchancer said:
Thank you for that reply Tongueincheek - it's about the most sensible pro Parelli post I'v seen on here. Personally I've never liked the Parellis or their methods but am aware that they are very effective when used knowledgeably.
Regarding this latest embarrassment, I can only assume Pats ego has finally gotten the better of him and he has started to believe his own propaganda.
Click to expand...

well put and I heartily agree.
 
lastchancer said:
Thank you for that reply Tongueincheek - it's about the most sensible pro Parelli post I'v seen on here. Personally I've never liked the Parellis or their methods but am aware that they are very effective when used knowledgeably.
Regarding this latest embarrassment, I can only assume Pats ego has finally gotten the better of him and he has started to believe his own propaganda.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything that lastchancer has said here and hold the same view about the Parellis. In particular ..

lastchancer said:
Pats ego has finally gotten the better of him and he has started to believe his own propaganda .
Click to expand...
 
PapaFrita said:
Tongu~n~cheek, thank you for that post. It was very interesting and made a lot of sense. I KNOW not all parelli advocates are mindless drones and that some perfectly 'normal' people use Parelli techniques when handling and training their horses. HOWEVER, I do not believe that Parelli can lay claim to have created all the techniques that they use and that very many of them are nothing more than common sense.
I do believe, also, that you are wrong in saying that PP owes no one an explanation. He has marketed his name and his 'methods', sold them to the general public and is making a ton of money from them. Therefore he DOES have an obligation to justify his actions to his 'shareholders'.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this, especially the common sense part. I also know outwardly normal people who quote Parelli methods like the Bible and shell out money hand over fist for all the doodads when a bit of rope and a halter will suffice.
God! How did we manage in the good/bad old days?
 
PapaFrita said:
Excellent post. WHY won't they explain? It IS rather like a cult; no questioning, blind acceptance.... It's as if they have something to hide and only 'members' are allowed enlightenment... what's THAT all about????
Click to expand...

A group who are all the above, keen on having a lot of money pumped into their crazy ideas by their 'followers', pretend that they're a legitimate organisation under the guise of religion, have a cult-like quality, adore celebrity endorsment and have a ruthlessness in dealing with anybody who dares question them...

Hmmm, I'm beginning to see a pattern...are we sure they aren't linked to the Scientologists?
 
Thank you for that view from 'your' side as it were.

At first I liked Parelli; for an old stick like me who knew little and had forgotten more, there was someting to learn. I was going to do business with them... Now I hope their empire crumbles.
 
vickybrennan said:
See link to Monty Roberts using the gum line (on 1500 horses apparently?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5O4JHJhiUE
Click to expand...

So long as you watch this the whole way through!! 5 mins in the buck stopper compared to seriously hurting someone or ending up in the factory. No contest, in my view.
I can't see it as being worse than many of the other contraptions that are used daily in horses' mouths. (I know - no one on here has dreadful hands or uses evil bits...)
 
Troylimbo1 said:
Can I just highlight the section where you say you were 'appalled' that you saw Monty Roberts using a bucking strap in the same way as Pat Parelli.
He certainly DOES NOT put rope into the horses mouths - he actually ties it from the saddle to the head piece of the bridle so that the horse cannot lower his head to allow him to buck.
Mr Roberts is not even in the same league as this plonker (putting it mildly)
Click to expand...

Agree with the above, I have been to a demonstration by Monty Roberts and he certainly did not put anything in the horses mouth , it was tied to the saddle!
 
intouch said:
So long as you watch this the whole way through!! 5 mins in the buck stopper compared to seriously hurting someone or ending up in the factory. No contest, in my view.
I can't see it as being worse than many of the other contraptions that are used daily in horses' mouths. (I know - no one on here has dreadful hands or uses evil bits...)
Click to expand...
Context is absolutely vital. Without knowing the full story (or at least most of it) of a horse, one can't make an informed opinion. Sadly, the Parelli people will not explain or otherwise provide said context.... therefore I refuse to accept.
 
"... doesn't "Tom Booker" tie Pilgrim's leg up in the Horse Whisperer?

Yes - and Monty Roberts wasn't happy with that association."

I hope I'm not repeating anyone, this is such a long thread! Monty Roberts had no association with the film The Horse Whisperer, whatever he says in his books. This has been stated clearly by the author and the man he visited when he was writing the book - Buck Brannaman. Buck Brannaman was also the consultant on the film for the horse work, and gives a clear explanation of the laying the horse down scene in his own book. He ends by saying it's not a film about horse training, it's a love story (which is why the whole laying down thing wasn't explained more clearly in the film).

I must admit, having spoken to Pat P on several occasions, and once about using heavy restraint, I'm quite shocked to read about this. He's going straight down the same line that Monty Roberts has isn't he? He'll be herding horses into trailers with panels next.

p.s. Monty Roberts absolutely DOES put a gumline under the horse's top lip. He's even responded to criticism of this on the Intelligent Horsemanship discussion group, so this is proven.
 
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