Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

PolarSkye said:
See, I just don't understand this . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwYAn4IH918

I really don't see the link between what PP was doing (swinging that rope at the mare's shoulder) and what he was asking from the horse (go into the trailer) . . . I'm no great horsewoman, but I saw a confused horse. It seemed to me that he kept "asking" the same question over and over again with little or no effect on the what/how the horse behaved (aside from avoidance).

If I ask Kali a question and it becomes clear that he isn't responding in the way that I want either because he's being stubborn, or scared, or because he's confused (or just plain "stuck"), it's my responsibility to figure out another way to ask the question. Surely, asking the same question in the same way over and over and always getting avoidance just teaches avoidance? Or am I being really thick? And what about rewarding "the try" . . . and giving the horse time to have a think . . . until tomorrow perhaps?

Really, really confused.

P
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Yes I was confused as to what he was trying to do, he could have moved the partition over for a start if he was in fact trying to load the mare. She looked confused as to what she was being asked to do, ah well another video nail in their coffin, they really don't help themselves
 
I think that this post is / has probably run out of steam.

But can I urge those of you who are concerned to contact the BHS to voice those concerns, and also (as prompted by Oldred) to contact the Royal Festival of the Horse organisers.
 
Does anyone know if the video of Friday's 'performance' that was on Youtube has been removed? I can't link to it from any of the posts on this thread.
 
I just wanted to pick up on the simulation of horse bite via metal clip thing people are on about.

I presume whoever originally posted it meant to say it simulated the phases horse A will go to to move horse B. If B doesn't listen to the early stages of asking or telling, horse A will most likely eventually use teeth and brute strength to get horse B to move. I think we all understand this.

What I think has got lost in translation (or just wasn't explained well about parelli methods) is that of course no horse thinks a human is another horse, no matter how much they simulate horse behaviour. However the whole essence of NH (which IMHO the parellis have lost) is that we humans can make the training process easier and less stressful to the horse if we mimick their language as much as possible within a sensible training environment. Don't forget, most NH followers aren't claiming to have reinvented the wheel. We're just doing what good horsepeople do, but using slightly different methods with different focus and different equipment.

As I say - I don't use one, it doesn't sit well enough with me. The people who I have seen in person who have gone to hitting their horse with the clip have been working with horses who do understand the instruction, and have been given plenty of opportunity to listen to it but have ignored it, rather than not understood it.

Going to a strong phase with a horse who doesn't understand, or isn't emotionally fit enough to take it isn't a smart nor compassionate thing to do, whatever discipline you follow.
 
MadasaFerret said:
I watched a TV prog. the other day about Appleby, say what you like about the fair and the way the Gypsies train and drive their horses, PP could learn a lot from the Gypsies at Appleby about basic harness and driving if his PP's Driving DVD is anything to go by. Poor horses in that DVD didn't even had harness that fitted and the right bits to work in. One poor horse in the pair had a swivel cheek Liverpool digging HARD into his muzzle, screaming to be understood, and nobody said a word......poor animal.
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It is a bit scary how many people think a liverpool is an appropriate bit for a multiple.... it's dangerous for people and uncomfortable for horses (making it doubley dangerous for people)
 
Many posters have mentioned the vet examination on the horse, who was actually present for this?

A friend tells me that parelli claim there was no injury at all to the horse and the only people present were their own staff, therefore trying to dis-spell the claims of many of the people on this forum.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j25pS6ixWk

This video is another classic marketing tactic from the parelli people. Pat sharing his lunch with the horse, etc all aiming to paint a lovely rosy picture that the horse is happy and pat is so kind. 'Look everyone, this horse is happy and no harm done'.

Its doesnt make abuse acceptable just because you give the horse a hug afterwards and give it a crust of bread. Its a pathetic attempt to try and right a wrong and whitewash over the incident. Again- totally patronising. We dont understand the training process apparently but if it means the horse is happy to have lunch with Pat afterwards then thats ok.

Anthropomorphic rubbish that is intertwined with 'its all about horse behaviour' spewed out by PP that people fall for.
 
I can confirm that I have been contacted by WHW, who are looking into this as I write. :)

Please keep the complaints coming ! sm x

RSPCA - 0300 1234 999

WHW - 01953 498682

Royal Festival of the Horse 01243 532516 / 07710 348554

Email: bppr@pilchers.net

Thankyou guys, action speaks louder than words ! sm x
 
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I am so upset reading this, I have been following PNH for about 1 year and I have never seen or heard anything like this.

I was not at FOTH on Friday I didn't see the demo so I cannot condone what Pat did, all I can say to the other folk who are just slagging off people who practice parelli.... in not all instances do conventional methods work for all horses - do not be so quick to critisize those who who have found a different way. Snoopy who ever you are, it takes me 2 seconds to catch my horse as he runs to great me!!!

I am not for or against what Pat did until I see it for myself, it does sound horrific in reading about it and I cannot believe PP would treat a horse this way. I only ask that you do not condem all people who choose a different method to work with their horse because a conventional method of training has not worked... when most people would have sold their horse on because they didn't get on or forced it down with more and more equipment, I have chosen a different road to follow. That does not make me someone for you to make fun of or to ridicule me.

SO DON'T BULLY people who work with a different method of training and try and exclude us from your clique. You are not better than someone who bullies your horse.
 
I've got behind the "Complain Campaign" and emailed the Daily Mail the link to the video.
I know they really like to pick up on "Animal Abuse"
 
I think the more people we complain to the better, tbh. The Daily Mail do like animal abuse stories....but then again so does The Sun :D.
 
http://linda.parellinaturalhorsetra...elli-update-from-the-past-few-weeks/#comments


Link to a comment by Helen McCloud Cuckoo Land. I particularly liked this bit-

Bravo on being brave enough to show the advanced techniques used with Robert Whitaker’s beautiful stallion. I know some of the audience were a ‘little’ shocked and emotional – they need a bit more savvy I think to understand the assertive without emotion principle
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Savvy means intelligence/common sense. So apparently im too stupid to realise that tying a horses legs up and using a gum line is good horsemanship?
:D What planet are these people on????
 
Totally agree with Sue. I have known people to have great success with Parelli with previously difficult horses, and build great relationships and often succeed with animals that previous owners had failed with.

I think in this case it was a demonstration using the wrong horse at the wrong place and it went completely wrong - maybe there was an ego involved to try and get a "result" and the horse hadn't read the script and wasn't about to comply.
 
Parelli = waste of time in my opinion. use your common sense when around horses not airy fairy 'natural horsemanship' which as far as i've seen causes the horse distress and confusion. Surely if a man names his technique after himself it shows he's more concerned about his own profile than the horses welfare IN MY OPINION. yes contraversial i know, but if it works for you fair enough. I can't stand it personally.
 
drover said:
Many posters have mentioned the vet examination on the horse, who was actually present for this?

A friend tells me that parelli claim there was no injury at all to the horse and the only people present were their own staff, therefore trying to dis-spell the claims of many of the people on this forum.
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The BHS organised for a vet to examine the horse, which was subsequently done. This has been confirmed to me in writing by the BHS.
 
###Talking horse quote 'All I have seen indicates that if the horse exhibits an unacceptable behaviour Monty's methods would permit punishment (tugging the rope, for example) but do not permit any form of violent assault on the horse in order to get him to achieve a behaviour. I have seen both Pat and Linda Parelli hit horses to get the behaviour they want. That to me, as a Monty Roberts student and observer of Parelli, is the difference that makes me reject Parelli and be the proud holder of the Monty Roberts Preliminary Certificate of Horsemanship.'
###
Monty injured a horse in a demo using rope gadgets like this and the 'Daily Mirror' covered the story but Monty just said it was the worst horse he had met (also wb) is it just to easy to blame the horses. :confused:
 
DON'T BE FOOLED BY ANY PARELLI PRACTICIONER

"Some" choose to work only on horses which will give a good audience, which they have already practiced on... it is all about money spinning and little else... and when faced with a very, very difficult problem suggest euthanasia... and we have personal experience of this... a young horse beaten and whipped around a stable into utter submission... a bill for over £800 and the advice to have him euthanised... (obviously, - because he would not attract large audiences, nor play the game of showing how "magical" these half-wit cowboys are....



Any moron with half an idea about horses, can "move" a horse around an arena, - it is no great secret, - you don't have to wear levi's, a stetson, and huge spurs, and "affect" a John Way walk... and flirt with the dim-wit girls and women who think there is something "magic" ... there is not... the "magic" is in the cheque book!

It is all about showmanship and money spinning.

I have watched a so-called Parelli "expert" "work his influence" on a very nervous horse... the horse was given the choice (with the carrot stick and lots of untoward pressure) of frightening, or VERY frightening....

What does the poor horse do? Choose "frightening" over "very frightening".

How clever! Natural horsemanship my rear end!

The bill for the above "frightening, or very frightening" exceeded £600 and the horse was worse than ever...

It is HIGH time this nonsense was exposed properly

AT LAST
 
eahotson said:
domane.thats what happened to me.we were suposed to be nh stuff at camp and i have no issue with that, but it was pure parelli and i was standing there swinging this wretched rope when i thought why am i doing this? He is not enjoying it, i am not.he backs up perfectly well when asked in a way he understands.so i stopped.i was suposed to be swinging this wretched heavy clip ever harder.i bought my boy as a confidence restorer and he has been super for me.it seemed a poor way to repay him.my instructor started off by talking herself up, subtext if you don't get anything outof this, the fault is yours.its verging on a cult and there is a lot of brain washing.
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did you write a cheque.... Cos that is the only thing all this garbage is about...

It is about fooling people... (predominantly women, who are "taken" with cowboys in stetsons and levis, with spurs...

The "cheque" is the be-all-and-end-all... Thank goodness you saw sence... And relied on your own, superior, intuition... Well done.!!!
 
DragonSlayer said:
We have a 17.2 Shire X who was EVIL when we got him.

Bridle him? Not a chance...he had been doped....and we found out later the previous owners had to twitch him on his lip AND ears and he was rammed into a corner...

You know what? 9 years later, not a bother to bridle at all, and has been for the last 8 years....it took time, but we got there....

PATIENCE.

He learnt to trust us. This once-was-horrid horse is now the best mannered beastie on our yard....


No fancy tricks, rope-twirling or stick-waving for us.
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WELL DONE a "natural horseman/woman" - but died you wear a stetson, and spurs and levis? and have a lot of people watching you, who had to write cheques??? I think not...

Well done you, and you have my respect and admiration....

This is the BIG turning point for the Parelli money spinning nonsense...! It is ALL about circus tricks, and cheque books.....
 
kirstyl said:
The rope was certainly under the top lip of the horse in the demo that I saw with Monty Roberts. The horse belonged to a friend of a friend, he was a violent bucker. They asked to buy the bucking strap afterwards. They were sold it at some extortionate price just as a long bit of string as apparently bucking straps that go in the mouth are illegal here. Probably 10 years ago.
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Monty Roberts was on the right track... always...
He started with the belief that "things could be done differently" read his biography...

SADLY... money grabbing morons have followed in his wake, and not only used his knowledge, experience and ideas, but EVEN his name...

James Roberts ( see www.jr-foundationstation.com ) is not, actually James "Roberts" he is James "UNHERTS" not a very glamourous cowboy-like name, I agree...

So he chooses BUT... he does wear levi's - stetsons, and huge spurs... and has affected an amazing John Wayne Walk !! At what point in the Parelli training, do we get to try out the John Wayne Walk, and get taught how to do it???
 
ruscara said:
I don't usually pass comment, because I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to criticise or otherwise these techniques.
However, I will break my usual reticence to say that in the video provided I thought that Pat Parelli looked like an arrogant arse with little regard for the sensitivities of the horse he was 'working' with.
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and dear you, you should not put yourself down... you have just shown, in that one small sentence how SUPERIOR your knowledge is...

It is all about circus tricks and cheque books - and you are so so above it...
Well done you... Respect!
 
snowmanbaby said:
don't you know yet??? Planet cheque book!!!!
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We have a TV comercial over here for a package shipping company, either UPS or Fed Ex, shows how much I was paying attention.
Anyway there is a CEO with his new advisor, a smart a$$ kid, who has told the CEO about the new names for some countries, primarily the new country of Buttheadistan.

I do believe that is the home of Pepperoni and his devotees
 
SophieRIDSH said:
We have a TV comercial over here for a package shipping company, either UPS or Fed Ex, shows how much I was paying attention.
Anyway there is a CEO with his new advisor, a smart a$$ kid, who has told the CEO about the new names for some countries, primarily the new country of Buttheadistan.

I do believe that is the home of Pepperoni and his devotees
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PMSL!
 
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