petition to make the Grand National safer

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Well obviously I need to do some more research, I've obviously gotten a lot wrong etc, so my apologies.

However, my intentions were there, as I know some people believe that I 'honestly don't care'. Obviously I do?

If you don't like my petition then fine, but perhaps a little more constructive feed back, instead of nitpicking?

So how can I improve my petition? p.s. if you're not signing it because you don't agree, then take a step back and leave the thread, but those who believe changes need to be made but not sure about my facts, please could you point me in the direction of legit stuff?
 
LEC said:
I think some of you are terribly blinkered in your views and need to look at the bigger picture. These snap decisions from watching one race are not healthy for any sport. I bet there are more problems in the UK from obese or poorly looked after horses and bad riding than the whole of the racing industry can create.
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Well said!
 
I support the GN, and I do so knowing that it is an extremely dangerous spectacle where horses/riders maybe injured and die. I think the way the horses and tarps were so visable can only act as a good reminder of this fact.

However, the very visable loss of these animals will stir up a knee jerk reaction, and unsupported claims of cruelty. The hauds of drunk racegoers who are completely dissmissive and ignorant of the consequences bother me more. It may give them a true appreciation of the effort and athleticism of the horses and riders.

As i have said, I support the grand national - but I do so with my eyes wide open. Long may it continue.
 
Could I just add though, that it is unfair to say that everyone who is not fond of the GN 'doesn't know what they're talking about'.

A well known trainer, friend and saddle fitter I know, her late husband was a racehorse trainer, he worked in the racing industry and she used to follow a lot of the work he did and supported him. However, she's not fond of the GN either. Despite, being raised in a family which is very pro-racing.
 
lassiesuca said:
Well obviously I need to do some more research, I've obviously gotten a lot wrong etc, so my apologies.

However, my intentions were there, as I know some people believe that I 'honestly don't care'. Obviously I do?

If you don't like my petition then fine, but perhaps a little more constructive feed back, instead of nitpicking?

So how can I improve my petition? p.s. if you're not signing it because you don't agree, then take a step back and leave the thread, but those who believe changes need to be made but not sure about my facts, please could you point me in the direction of legit stuff?
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You've only been given facts. However, you have chosen to interpret it as nipicking.....
 
1 child dies every 20 seconds due to lack of clean drinking water. Maybe looking at combating issues such as this will make your petition a valid one and useful one rather than making a snap judgement on something you seem to know very little about?
 
I love watching the GN I bet every year and lose every year but still enjoy the whole televised run up to it. However the one point I would like to put is, several of the horses were not really up to the GN, I got this veiw from the commentators, pundits, and jockeys whilst being interviewed. 2 jockeys were quoted has saying their horses stood very little chance of getting around, one commentor said one horse had never ran a race over two miles ?. Another time a commentor said that a certain horse jumping ability was not really up to the GN fences, sorry I cannot remember names.
So and please feel free to explain it to me why on earth were those particular horses there, surely these horses were either likely to fall and potentially bring another horse down with it. It does appear to me that at least 10 horses should not have been even in the starting line due to either their jumping, or stamina not being up to it. Maybe if lower graded horses were refused entry there would be less injuries.
But then I suppose even these horses have ran races all year with the owners and trainers hoping for their horse to be chosen has a runner for the GN, so who am I to moan. I suppose the reason there is this big hoohar because we all saw the covered bodies on the track where as usually they have been removed before the runners get back to that fence. I will not sign the petition but would be happier if a more stricter ruling on which horses are actually chosen to run in the GN.
 
LEC said:
1 child dies every 20 seconds due to lack of clean drinking water. Maybe looking at combating issues such as this will make your petition a valid one and useful one rather than making a snap judgement on something you seem to know very little about?
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Because there are already lots of them about, lots of charities etc which by the way, I support.

I've already stated that I'm wrong, so no need to continue on that I'm wrong.
 
3Beasties said:
But how many of those 74% are horsey people that actually understand and follow racing? Not many I bet :rolleyes:

The National has sparked this reaction because so many where watching, where as the two horses that were killed in flat races haven't been mentioned! I think a better argument/poll would be to ask if racing should be banned all together (which I would still say No, definitely not!), I don't think it is fair to single the National out when horses die everyday on the race track, sad, but that is how it is!
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I do wonder that too - I doubt many were horse people, they are just shocked as they SAW quite obviously that two horses were dead. Normally you don't see it so i guess maybe it doesn't hit home as much. I think one viewer's comments they did read out was horsey though and they were in support of the GN.

I saw the horse accident at Thirsk where the horse died (shown on CH4earlier in the day) - horrible fall and noone could have forseen it. I did not see the other horse sustain the fatal injury at the same meeting. However, these have not been mentioned as you say - does that mean these horses were not as important as the ones in the GN?? I think more people need to know the reality of racing really or maybe the reality of the competitive horse world in general cos you can bet every week horses died racing, eventing, team chasing, hunting etc etc. I think the only answer is to ban riding altogether??!

People are always going to disagree on certain equine sports. racing gets the biggest coverage though but personally i do not like the dangerous riding I have seen hunting and the lack of thought for the horse's welfare sometimes then. I am not a fan of dressage and how the horses don't often get to be horse. I actually think in general, racehorses (certainly NH horses) live a pretty decent life on the whole but sadly there are accidents but I don't think ANY race's intention is to cause injury to anyone, horse or rider.
 
lassiesuca said:
So how can I improve my petition? p.s. if you're not signing it because you don't agree, then take a step back and leave the thread, but those who believe changes need to be made but not sure about my facts, please could you point me in the direction of legit stuff?
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So you only want people to reply who agree with you, basically?
 
No, I just want constructive feed back, even if they don't agree with me, that's fine and they've clearly stated that.

It's like a pack of animals on here.

How do I delete threads/get it locked? I didn't want an argument to start, can we not discuss are opposing views without such petty conflict? I know this is a passionate subject to many on here, and like I've said I RESPECT that, I've not attacked your beloved sport totally, I could give my full views, on that I'd rather it be banned altogether, but I've not? I've remained pretty reasonable I think.

Is this how all adults treat children?
 
lassiesuca said:
I've set up a petition in the aim to get lots of support and hopefully take it to the BRS and get them to just consider that the course perhaps needs some of it's safety aspects reconsider.

I'm not suggesting we ban the race, but if we can reduce the number of horses on the course, perhaps lower the fences and even reduce the length they have to run, you can still enjoy the race, and it will hopefully reduce the number of fatalities.

We do see it in eventing, however not as often, because safety is considered, obviously we can't prevent accidents entirely, but I believe we can reduce the risk.

In the past 11 years, 21 horses have been killed on GN, lets try and reduce that number. We're all horse lovers here! So let's just do the right thing :o


http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/grandnationalsafety/
Thanks for your support. I don't want to cause a fight, I just want to raise awareness

xx
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After reading this WHOLE thread, i am iterally stumped for words!

Another tradition attracting bad press from 'fluffy bunnies' who feel that can 'make a difference' No, not a sarcastic comment to attract an argument, a true account of my thoughts! (We are all allowed think say what we think? I presume?!)

It's like the Hunt Ban all over again ....

Anyway, on a brighter note. I think the National is great! And ... i came in second (must collect winings actually thinking about it :rolleyes::D)
 
How many people on here are against bull fighting, may I ask?

The Spanish see it as a traditional fight, the bulls are well cared for up until the fight, as are the horses. Bulls are killed and horses are sometimes killed.

Is that 'just the risk'? I mean, it could just happen. It'll be interesting as I know many of us on here are anti-bull fighting, just wondering what your views on that are.


Just a question?

p.s. it's a subject I'm well aquainted with, so up for a debate on that (I'm anti-bullfighting, by the way).
 
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Caledonia said:
I missed Goguenard - apologies. And I have mentioned Graphic Approach, however, he didn't die on the course, or injure himself directly from the fall. He was running loose, and I 'think' it was infection that got him in the end.

Here you go -

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/121407.html
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No need to apologize, and thanks for the info on Graphic Approach. Very sad, but tbh could have happened during any race :(
 
lassiesuca said:
How many people on here are against bull fighting, may I ask?

The Spanish see it as a traditional fight, the bulls are well cared for up until the fight, as are the horses. Bulls are killed and horses are killed.

Is that 'just the risk'?

Just a question?
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:rolleyes::rolleyes: Seriously? The Term "grasping as straws'" springs to mind here!

Not everyone agrees with your petition, those who do have signed - what more do you aim to achieve? To change everyones view point on racing to that of yours?

You couldn't be more mistaken.
 
lassiesuca said:
How many people on here are against bull fighting, may I ask?

The Spanish see it as a traditional fight, the bulls are well cared for up until the fight, as are the horses. Bulls are killed and horses are killed.

Is that 'just the risk'?

Just a question?
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now that is a bit of asilly comparison because no one puts a horse in a race with the intention of killing it, however the bull is in the ring to be maimed or killed period
 
lassiesuca said:
No, I just want constructive feed back, even if they don't agree with me, that's fine and they've clearly stated that.

It's like a pack of animals on here.

How do I delete threads/get it locked? I didn't want an argument to start, can we not discuss are opposing views without such petty conflict? I know this is a passionate subject to many on here, and like I've said I RESPECT that, I've not attacked your beloved sport totally, I could give my full views, on that I'd rather it be banned altogether, but I've not? I've remained pretty reasonable I think.

Is this how all adults treat children?
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If you want constructive feedback, then I'd say lose the petition.

Then go and research statistics from ALL horse sports about fatalities, injuries, medical interventions etc and then present a balanced view of what needs addressing in the horse world.

You could also start a petition about restricting breeding from unproven animals.

Or ensure stallions are licensed and registered and APPROVED before they cover mares, with the penalty being confiscation of the entire, and all foals.

Or a petition to ensure every horse imported and exported across the channel is legitimate - campaign for 24 hour checks on every port.

Racing is an easy target because the facts are out there, unlike any other equine sport. Maybe petition for more publicly available information elsewhere?

Racing is the only industry with horses that self-regulates to a degree. It's the only horse sport where yards need to be approved, trainers are spot checked, and the horses viewed by vets before they run. It's downfall is partially because every race is televised, but also because of it's transparency.

There's an awful lot more wrong with the horse world than racing.
 
lassiesuca said:
How many people on here are against bull fighting, may I ask?

The Spanish see it as a traditional fight, the bulls are well cared for up until the fight, as are the horses. Bulls are killed and horses are sometimes killed.

Is that 'just the risk'? I mean, it could just happen. It'll be interesting as I know many of us on here are anti-bull fighting, just wondering what your views on that are.


Just a question?

p.s. it's a subject I'm well aquainted with, so up for a debate on that (I'm anti-bullfighting, by the way).
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There is no comparison between horse racing and bull fighting - so it has no bearing on this debate.

A bull is put in to the arena to be killed. The horse is put on the race track to win.
 
lassiesuca said:
How many people on here are against bull fighting, may I ask?

The Spanish see it as a traditional fight, the bulls are well cared for up until the fight, as are the horses. Bulls are killed and horses are sometimes killed.

Is that 'just the risk'? I mean, it could just happen. It'll be interesting as I know many of us on here are anti-bull fighting, just wondering what your views on that are.


Just a question?

p.s. it's a subject I'm well aquainted with, so up for a debate on that (I'm anti-bullfighting, by the way).
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Dunno why I bothered to write out a sensible reply earlier........ bulls are bred to be killed in the ring. That's the definite outcome. There is no comparison with racing. Stop moving the goalposts to try and save face.
 
amymay said:
Colt's and Fillies who are proven retire to stud very young - and enjoy some quite wonderful years.
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I'm not sure I agree with that, they may be well looked after but I'm not sure churning a foal out every 12 months for 15 or so years would match my idea of quite wonderful.
 
I love watching racing, esp the National, so will not be signing but you will get more support if you use well sourced facts and stats from a variety to sources, not from a news report.


And you cannot compare racing to bull fighting!
I've never been to a bullfight, I don't agree with purposely killing animals for sport, so I'm not speaking from experience. But the intention of a bullfight is to kill the bull from the start, whereas fatalities during the GN were accidents and could have happened in any race.


Spent abit too long typing and its already been brought up :rolleyes:
 
Wagtail said:
Caledonia and Amymay. I have a horse here for training right now who after winning numerous races started to fail as a racer. Lovely mare, but when I got her vetted, the vet said 'well I know why she's not a very good racer'. She had grade four heart murmurs audible in all four chambers of the heart. She had arrived with me only 3 days after coming last in her final race and as fit as stunning as you could ever want. That horse was able to cope with her one and a half mile flat races and progressed to hurdles with some success (a couple of places) and she coped with any any amount of training without dropping dead. But do you think she'd have survived the National?
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No, she probably would not have survived the GN but she didn't run in the GN did she, she didn't die running in it so what are you trying to say? Go and have a go at the trainer for not having a decent vet. You cannot blame a race for a horse's condition before it starts that is just bloody stupid.
 
amymay said:
There is no comparison between horse racing and bull fighting - so it has no bearing on this debate.

A bull is put in to the arena to be killed. The horse is put on the race track to win.
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Hmm but is it? I mean, I'm talking about the horses that are used in bullfighting, what are your views on that.

Obviously they're not exactly the same, but there IS a comparison.

Horse enters ring, with a risk of being impaired by the bull, because it's doing something which has risks.

Horse enters track to gallop alongside 40 other horses which usually ends in serious injury for some horses, or death, but that's the risk we take?


We're entering our horses for something which potentially has the ability to kill them, but these are more high risk sports. But I know so many people have an issue with that, who are pro-GN
 
I do believe reducing numbers would be a good move in the National, as 40 is still far too many, but I think you have to get your facts completely straight before you start a petition. Do you want racing in general to be safer or just the National? Are you complaining about the industry or just the racing itself? I would advise double checking all your facts and figures as claiming that 33 horses have been killed in the National alone since 2000 makes it seem like butchery, when really that figure is a distortion of the facts. I'm not anti-racing, but I believe there is a lot that could be done to improve the industry as a whole and to make the races safer. I don't think the Grand National is the only issue.

As for bull fighting - that is a whole different kettle of fish. The purpose of bull fighting is actually to kill the bull, whereas the purpose of racing is to win the race, not kill the horse. Bull fighting is hugely contentious even in Spain and a lot of Spaniards don't agree with it. It was recently made illegal in Cataluña and it is becoming less and less popular. It really doesn't have anything to do with the horse racing argument, IMHO. The use of horses by the picadors is also something I strongly disagree with, given that it is expected that they will be charged and struck by the bull.
 
lassiesuca said:
Well, then perhaps we shouldn't just let them gallop so fast?

.
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LOL - if you have ever bothered to watch the GN you would have heard the starter warning them every time something along the lines of DON'T GO TO FAST TO THE FIRST - they say it every year and it makes not a jot of difference.

Anyway, it is a R A C E the FASTEST wins! Stupid comment.
 
I am not interested in the debate or petition, to pick on anyone, I have my views & they sit very confortably with me. The bull fighting analogy is rediculous. Those animals are only certain of painful death when they go in the ring. For heavens sake they get swords stabbed in their backs. It is in no way comprable & I agree with the 'grasping at straws statement'. If you want a debate on bull fighting, start another thread where the issues specific to it can be aired.

The one thing I would like to come from the non-horse owning publics view of the fataly injured horses, is how fragile these animals can be. I would be lovely if this could translate into greater understanding in situation where they come across them, such as on roads. If they care that much about them, let's see proof & drop their speed, treat them with understanding & not get angry when they encounter them & have to wait.
 
Not sure if anyone here watched the foxhunters on the previous day - those jockeys should be applauded the way they all rode around those fences & as far as I know nobody got hurt.

I am all for reducing the numbers of the horses in the race - there doesnt need to be 40 odd runners in this race but reducing the length & making the fences shorter is not necessary. The race is prestige for a reason & altering it like that will take that from the race (I also dont think it will impact on the safety either)

I also think the horses in the race should not be handicapped & they should also be proven over testing conditions & the further distances.

I think there were several horses in that race that had never been over 3 & half miles before & I think the horses should have all at least have run in races over the distance in various conditions before being entered into this race.
 
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