Pin firing .... no negative comments please

Damn that evidence based medicine.

saying it does work reminds me a little of the lady recently who said she didn't need facts to know that Obama was not born in the USA, so long as she believed it.
 
Casey76 said:
Well sorry, but if you are going to inflict a barbaric procedure on your beloved horse, you should expect some people to have differing opinions.

Personally I think you should be prosecuted for abuse (as should the person who carried out the procedure).
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Agreed. The whole basis of this thread is mad. You really can't expect to not get negative comments if you openly admit on a public forum to having an abusive and probably illegal procedure carried out on your horse.
 
Fairynuff said:
Ive heard all the arguments and can't be bothered to repeat myself time and time again. :)
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I wonder why... If it works and is humane, then why is it not used regularly anymore? There is good reason why you got abuse on FB for posting about blistering a horse yourself, barbaric. Would you treat yourself with this method if you had a tendon or ligament injury?
 
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I did not prescribe the treatment. The vet did.The owner agreed to the treatment prescribed. As the horse is on full livery on my yard I was the one to carry out the treatment.
 
Fairynuff said:
I did not prescribe the treatment. The vet did.The owner agreed to the treatment prescribed. As the horse is on full livery on my yard I was the one to carry out the treatment.
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I see you are in Italy, is it a routine treatment out there? I am dumbfounded that anyone thinks putting caustic chemicals onto an animals skin is going to do them any good, but that's just me... Would you use the same treatment for yourself?
 
AandK said:
I see you are in Italy, is it a routine treatment out there? I am dumbfounded that anyone thinks putting caustic chemicals onto an animals skin is going to do them any good, but that's just me... Would you use the same treatment for yourself?
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Blistering used to be used on people too....in the Middle Ages.
 
Fairynuff said:
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/12383/pin-firing
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I have been qualified as a vet for 6 years. I was 12 when that article came out. To say it is not relevant or evidence-based would be somewhat of an understatement.

The joy of evidence based medicine is that we are always updating our knowledge. By the time I got to vet school, firing was being discussed as an unethical procedure with no effect, so this isn't even a new way of thinking. I note that the vet who wrote that article qualified in the early 1960's. Some of the best vets I have ever worked with qualified in that era, but those are the ones who continue to educate themselves on updates in veterinary medicine rather than coast by on knowledge 40 years out of date.
 
My horse had a serious check ligament injury, he was box rested for six months, then walked in hand for weeks and weeks slowly upping the time he walked for until I could ride him. We then did road hacking for what seemed forever building it up to two hours, he then started trotting, and eventually cantering. Any sign of heat or swelling and we went back to road walking. He wasn't turned out until he was back in full work. It seemed like forever but the patience and hard work paid off and he has just done his first advanced dressage test . He had some residule swelling so I had shock wave done and you now would never know he had done it. I am careful of the going and won't ride him in clay type mud. Other than that he is just normal. Time is the best healer.
I'm not sure as to why they fired her. if she was unable to stand surely she would have been put down? Weird.
 
I honestly thought that this didn't go on anymore in the UK for reasons other people have suggested - it is barbaric! :o

If any vet suggested bar or pin firing to me I'd be swapping vets ASAP.
 
I had a pony who did both suspensory and check ligament on the same leg at the same time. Vet (Leahurst) was very admanat the pny would never be ridden again due to the extent of the damage. they did think he would be field sound which given the pony was 18 years old and owed me nothing we aimed for. Given 6 months box rest, 12 months paddock rest, and a good 6 months of road work and slowly bringing back into work the pony went out and won open M&M classes at county shows. Unless pointed out you would never have known he had the injury.

I would have had him PTS before doing something as barbaric as firing him
 
9tails said:
If the OP is Applecart, she's returned to deliberately cause havoc. Who in their right mind posts about having their horse pin fired, knowing it will rile up most posters. So if it is Applecart, maybe we should suggest she get professional help for MH issues?
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What a really spiteful and unnecessary thing to say about someone. I am certainly not AC14 but what I am in the very proud sister of someone who has fought MH issues all her life and find it quite demeaning that you should ridicule someone in this way.
Cortez said:
*The clanging noise of a closed mind reverberates.................
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I should think the OP feels like this too. Her question in her OP was "But has anyone info on what to expect after the healing??"It was not give her 11 pages of abuse about how I have wronged my horse.

conniegirl said:
I had a pony who did both suspensory and check ligament on the same leg at the same time. Vet (Leahurst) was very admanat the pny would never be ridden again due to the extent of the damage. they did think he would be field sound which given the pony was 18 years old and owed me nothing we aimed for. Given 6 months box rest, 12 months paddock rest, and a good 6 months of road work and slowly bringing back into work the pony went out and won open M&M classes at county shows. Unless pointed out you would never have known he had the injury.

I would have had him PTS before doing something as barbaric as firing him
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Indeed time is a great healer but the original poster did say that theyhad taken advice from their vet. surely this would suggest that their vet is negligent rather than they are themselves. I said in my last post that I didn't agree/disagree with pinfiring and I have heard to sides of the argument. I prefer to siton the fence when it is a subject that isn't close to my hear or that I have experience with.I do agree that to breed for the mare would be unfair and a waste of time.
 
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hopscotch bandit said:
What a really spiteful and unnecessary thing to say about someone. I am certainly not AC14 but what I am in the very proud sister of someone who has fought MH issues all her life and find it quite demeaning that you should ridicule someone in this way.

I should think the OP feels like this too. Her question in her OP was "But has anyone info on what to expect after the healing??"It was not give her 11 pages of abuse about how I have wronged my horse.


Indeed time is a great healer but the original poster did say that they had taken advice from their vet. surely this would suggest that their vet is negligent rather than they are themselves. I said in my last post that I didn't agree/disagree with pinfiring and I have heard to sides of the argument. I prefer to siton the fence when it is a subject that isn't close to my hear or that I have experience with.I do agree that to breed for the mare would be unfair and a waste of time.
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Sorry but before doing anything major to my horse I will always research what the vet advises so that I am fully informed of what I am about to put my horse through. Even a very small amount of research on pin firing proves it is downright cruel.
I believe any horse owner should do research before putting thier horse through major vet interventions (except in emergency situations like a horse dieing of colic). So yes I consider the owner as negligent here.
If a vet suggested firing (of any form) to me I would be reporting to the BCVS immediately.
 
hopscotch bandit said:
What a really spiteful and unnecessary thing to say about someone. I am certainly not AC14 but what I am in the very proud sister of someone who has fought MH issues all her life and find it quite demeaning that you should ridicule someone in this way.

I should think the OP feels like this too. Her question in her OP was "But has anyone info on what to expect after the healing??"It was not give her 11 pages of abuse about how I have wronged my horse.


Indeed time is a great healer but the original poster did say that theyhad taken advice from their vet. surely this would suggest that their vet is negligent rather than they are themselves. I said in my last post that I didn't agree/disagree with pinfiring and I have heard to sides of the argument. I prefer to siton the fence when it is a subject that isn't close to my hear or that I have experience with.I do agree that to breed for the mare would be unfair and a waste of time.
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I guess you are a friend of AC then as your friend's horse has had all the same issues her horse had.

That aside, if your vet advised you to walk your horse off a cliff would you? Sorry to be so blunt, but if a medical professional advised me that the bext course of action was to stick red hot pins through my horses legs, I would wave them goodbye and get a second opinion, as well as reporting them to the RCVS.
 
hopscotch bandit said:
What a really spiteful and unnecessary thing to say about someone. I am certainly not AC14 but what I am in the very proud sister of someone who has fought MH issues all her life and find it quite demeaning that you should ridicule someone in this way.
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The quote was not demeaning or ridiculing anyone. IF the original poster had been AC14, and she had returned with a post about firing days after leaving the forum due to how stressful she was finding it, then it would indicate mental health issues to have done that.

9 tails just mistook who it was being suggested was AC14

I'm sorry if I have mistaken you as being AC14. Your vocabulary, tone, complaints and the experiences you or a friend has had with their horse, which you talk about on other threads, are so similar that it is difficult to believe otherwise . If you aren't, and intend to stay, then you will need to drop the constant complaints about harassment, like the ones on this thread, if you are going to have a happy time, I'm afraid.

I don't think you need to worry about this person being bullied. I don't actually believe this horse exists, I think is a half term troll. I won't believe it until I see photos. For the sake of the horse, I hope they can't be provided.
 
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So... what is the best way to convey the message on this forum that pin firing is a discredited form of treatment, illegal in some countries (for good reason), and likely to have welfare implications? Obviously the replies in this thread gets the message across in no uncertain terms to anyone reading it, but OP specifically asked for no negative comments.

I suppose the potential welfare of other horses has to be balanced against the feelings of the person asking the question.
 
ester said:
Odd how no one else mentioned applecart having a number after their name for a newbie to know it.
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I noticed that! But HBs other posts dont add up. She talks about BD and about a dressage saddle she has thats for petite riders, and AC14 was always saying she was a larger lady. She also posted about riding plans and working till 6 whereas AC14 has posted loads of times about leaving early. Plus AC14 googled everything and copied and pasted it. HBs posts dont read like that.

Maybe I'm just too trusting but thats one hell of an elaborate set up if it is her!
 
Only the recent posts have gone off track from standard a little. All previous posts fit the spec including the favourite reference website being posted on this thread.
And new people wouldn't say how they had heard from 'a friend' that the forum had gone downhill and got mean/cliquey whatever the words used were- if a friend told you that why would you join? or that 'a friend' tells you that lots of people have multiple usernames on here.

It only bothers me because I don't like people being duped, and I really like this forum so I don't like anyone continually slating it while hanging around or having a big tantrum about how awful it is and then coming back.
 
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TBH what does it matter if one poster used to be another .
Who cares if some poster thinks the forum has gone down hill no one forces them to post, they can trot off were ever they like .
Any one who supports firing (which is an entirely discredited ' treatment 'in fact it was discredited when I was training and that's nearly forty years ago ) is going to get negative comments and quite right too.
 
ester said:
Only the recent posts have gone off track from standard a little. All previous posts fit the spec including the favourite reference website being posted on this thread.
And new people wouldn't say how they had heard from 'a friend' that the forum had gone downhill and got mean/cliquey whatever the words used were- if a friend told you that why would you join? or that 'a friend' tells you that lots of people have multiple usernames on here.

It only bothers me because I don't like people being duped, and I really like this forum so I don't like anyone continually slating it while hanging around or having a big tantrum about how awful it is and then coming back.
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There is a post somewhere from this person that says they have or had a cairn. Sorry, but can't be bothered to find it right now. Applecart and her other half had beagles - I know only through having competed for years at SRC in the 70's/80's/early 90's. I 'know' Colin (the other half) as a result, but have never met/spoken to Applecart. So is this someone different or a red herring to throw people off the scent. Who knows? Who cares? This forum is getting beyond belief. :(
 
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