EllenJay
Well-Known Member
But it is taking up space - so of course they can charge
Policy on livery yard for in-foal pony - I'm not happy
- Thread starter chasing-my-tail
- Start date
But it is taking up space - so of course they can charge
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
Theyre like bloody houdini, if the fencing isnt adequate theyre out and exploring fairly soon, ive seen a mare go through a fence to get to a wandering foal that got through the fence, ive also seen a foal have a near miss in a field of geldings, only to happy to take a kick at it, because the place wasnt geared up for mares and foals, a bit like the op's place sounds.
kateo
Well-Known Member
A bill is not the law so I doubt the accuracy of your 'legal' advice. Totally bizarre.
HBM1
Well-Known Member
Really? my foals stuff their faces all day long
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
They can charge for foals
Livery stables can charge what they like, and for whatever they want. I don't charge any extra for having foals on my farm and most other stud farms I personally know the owners of don't either, but we could if we wanted to. There's on law, nor even guidelines about any charges a livery yard owner may wish to charge.
MiniMilton
Well-Known Member
The YO should just say "oh your mare is in foal? How wonderful! Did I mention mare and foal livery is 250 per week? Oh you didn't realise it was so expensive?! Oopsie"
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
Why isn't OP replying to those comments?
Carrots&Mints
Well-Known Member
These*
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
So did mine.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
It could be called having a life outside of horses but they have answered further back if you look.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Do you mean that people do stuff away from HHO , OMG the thought of it.
Tonks
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I'm probably being a bit emotionally retarded here but I didn't think that the OP came across too badly or too narky.......just inexperienced.
I would be annoyed if any one of my liveries deceived me about thier mare being in foal. But, I think that's the point - I don't think they would, because they couldn't.
I do agree that it is unprofessional to put such comments regarding a client in such an 'open arena'. But again, I think this shows inexperience and 'reaction'.
My advice would be to chat to the BHS (they will help even if you're not approved) and try to work out the best solution for all concerned. However, as a livery owner your 'duty of care' is to the animals who are in livery with you, regardless of fees paid by clients. That's why all good livery yards promote good communication and have strict boundaries concerning what you can and can't do.
I would be annoyed if any one of my liveries deceived me about thier mare being in foal. But, I think that's the point - I don't think they would, because they couldn't.
I do agree that it is unprofessional to put such comments regarding a client in such an 'open arena'. But again, I think this shows inexperience and 'reaction'.
My advice would be to chat to the BHS (they will help even if you're not approved) and try to work out the best solution for all concerned. However, as a livery owner your 'duty of care' is to the animals who are in livery with you, regardless of fees paid by clients. That's why all good livery yards promote good communication and have strict boundaries concerning what you can and can't do.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Seriously??? The OP has every right to be annoyed!
Livery yards are often a part of someone's home and very few actually make a profit and many only just manage to cover their costs and in addition to that there are clients who don't pay, trash the place, steal, take liberties, etc, etc, so the 'customer is king' thing doesn't quite work here.
It sounds to me that this owner sent their mare to stud without informing the YO which is simply not on, to me it's just the same as going out and buying another horse, turning up with it and assuming that your YO will accommadate it along with your other! And no doubt this owner expects the mare's livery to cover the foal too in a BOGOF way.
YOs can do what they like, it's their place and there's always plenty of others looking for somewhere to keep their horse so no doubt the OP would find someone to take their place in no time.
If I were a YO and someone did this to me I'd be telling them to jog on, as much for the principal as anything else.
Venevidivici
Well-Known Member
I'm another who can't understand why OP/YO getting a bashing...
Re:duty of care to animals in livery...quite...the YO was not made aware (&hence given little choice) that her duty of care was to be doubled,which is utterly unacceptable. The livery has been wilfully deceitful in this-I don't care if it's cos 'she thought YO might say no' (and..so...??!?) or that 'YO seems snarky/unapproachable/whatever'(and...?!?) So does that mean it's ok for livery to just do what she wants?!
The only relevant fact is that the livery failed to inform the YO of her intention to put her mare in foal&keep it there. Arrogant & ignorant
I think YO is completely entitled to give the livery notice,straightaway. Whether livery has the good sense to leave in good time to settle her mare somewhere else,would be her own problem.
I agree with others,the livery sounds like she'd have no problem taking other liberties(especially once foal arrived),wherever she felt she wanted to and if someone had tried to deceive me in this way,I wouldn't care if they came on here and saw me talking about it. Hardly as bad as livery actually doing it,is it?!
It is the livery (as owner of said mare) who has the ultimate responsibility for the mare,not the YO. Livery seems happy to put mare in foal without ensuring future arrangements in place...er,irresponsible,much?!
Good luck OP.
Re:duty of care to animals in livery...quite...the YO was not made aware (&hence given little choice) that her duty of care was to be doubled,which is utterly unacceptable. The livery has been wilfully deceitful in this-I don't care if it's cos 'she thought YO might say no' (and..so...??!?) or that 'YO seems snarky/unapproachable/whatever'(and...?!?) So does that mean it's ok for livery to just do what she wants?!
The only relevant fact is that the livery failed to inform the YO of her intention to put her mare in foal&keep it there. Arrogant & ignorant
I think YO is completely entitled to give the livery notice,straightaway. Whether livery has the good sense to leave in good time to settle her mare somewhere else,would be her own problem.
I agree with others,the livery sounds like she'd have no problem taking other liberties(especially once foal arrived),wherever she felt she wanted to and if someone had tried to deceive me in this way,I wouldn't care if they came on here and saw me talking about it. Hardly as bad as livery actually doing it,is it?!
It is the livery (as owner of said mare) who has the ultimate responsibility for the mare,not the YO. Livery seems happy to put mare in foal without ensuring future arrangements in place...er,irresponsible,much?!
Good luck OP.
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
People saying that she is 'not allowed to charge for foals' are totally wrong.
If I wanted to set up a livery yard and charge £150 a week grass livery, extra for cobs because they eat more, £25 surcharge for shod horses and insist that liveries only enter the yard if they are wearing flippers, I could - my land my rules. Wouldn't get many takers, but it wouldn't stop me.
Whether or not a foal is eating, it's still taking up space and being a general nuisance.
If the livery had a large collection of pushbikes, they wouldn't eat grass either. They'd still take up space though, so she wouldn't be entitled to house them there for free.
If I wanted to set up a livery yard and charge £150 a week grass livery, extra for cobs because they eat more, £25 surcharge for shod horses and insist that liveries only enter the yard if they are wearing flippers, I could - my land my rules. Wouldn't get many takers, but it wouldn't stop me.
Whether or not a foal is eating, it's still taking up space and being a general nuisance.
If the livery had a large collection of pushbikes, they wouldn't eat grass either. They'd still take up space though, so she wouldn't be entitled to house them there for free.
Shadow the Reindeer
Well-Known Member
My lad eats no more than the Tb who he shares his field with Patterdale, what makes you think Cobs eat more? Just because they're built different doesn't always mean that They just have a different way of burning the calories off..
They just have a different way of burning the calories off..Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Shadeyoak, I was using it as an example to prove that YOs can charge what they want, and male any outlandish claims that they want.
I also don't think that liveries should be made to wear flippers on the yard.......
I also don't think that liveries should be made to wear flippers on the yard.......
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Disclaimer - I am not saying that YOs DO any of these things.......just trying to illustrate that they are perfectly within their rights to charge what they want for foal livery.
Shadow the Reindeer
Well-Known Member
Shadeyoak, I was using it as an example to prove that YOs can charge what they want, and male any outlandish claims that they want.
I also don't think that liveries should be made to wear flippers on the yard.......
Ah ok
I've seen how much money some owners pump into their Tb's to keep their weight up... it's scary! 
Elsiecat
Well-Known Member
In addition, it may be a good idea to demand the liveries but 2 pounds in the kitty every time their horse goes to the bathroom. To be paid within 3 minutes of horse doing said bathroom or the fee goes up to 15 pounds to include penalties.
showpony
Well-Known Member
Did you u not notice Horse going missing for a few days?
HBM1
Well-Known Member
That was covered..pony could have been driven to stud and inseminated/covered and driven home again.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
Yes folks - I know the foal is eating grass in greater levels as he gets older.
Somewhere there is a clause in an Equine Law covering the charges relating to foals and grazing.
Someone help me here - I can no longer remember the titles of the Welfare Laws concerning horses. I used to have a folder of copies of the UK Equine Laws etc but can n longer find it - it may never have come over to NZ with all my other stuff.
Somewhere there is a clause in an Equine Law covering the charges relating to foals and grazing.
Someone help me here - I can no longer remember the titles of the Welfare Laws concerning horses. I used to have a folder of copies of the UK Equine Laws etc but can n longer find it - it may never have come over to NZ with all my other stuff.
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
Putasocinit,
What can happen you say? Well I had a foal savaged in the blink of an eye by another mare. So horrific were the injuries the filly was put down. Happened in a split second. Her mother did try and protect her but again happened in a split second. Geldings can attack foals as well. My stepmom ended up in a helicopter to Shock Trauma after her foal squeezed through something a dog wouldn't get through. Gelding attacked and my stepmom through herself on top of him. The pool guy saved her and foal. Gelding was as sweet as they come until that moment.
Oh it's sweet driving by a field of mom's and babies. Even mixed fields with a foal. The reality of raising foals can be much different. And you only really get this after your own tradgedy and people start sharing their own stories.
Also headcollar and leading is best done by people who know what they're doing. Pulling and dragging out of foals could mean neck damage later on. Also it's about teaching them to have head collar on and off. Not how to wear it. Leave a headcollar on for 2 days and it's already too tight and uncomfortable. Sometimes I'm amazed these little creatures make it to and through weaning. Oh I know horses in the wild have babies all the time. Some make it some don't. We don't think anything happens to them in the wild.
Yup most of the time things are fine. But this doesn't sound like a situation best suited to the extra demands of mare and foal.
Terri
What can happen you say? Well I had a foal savaged in the blink of an eye by another mare. So horrific were the injuries the filly was put down. Happened in a split second. Her mother did try and protect her but again happened in a split second. Geldings can attack foals as well. My stepmom ended up in a helicopter to Shock Trauma after her foal squeezed through something a dog wouldn't get through. Gelding attacked and my stepmom through herself on top of him. The pool guy saved her and foal. Gelding was as sweet as they come until that moment.
Oh it's sweet driving by a field of mom's and babies. Even mixed fields with a foal. The reality of raising foals can be much different. And you only really get this after your own tradgedy and people start sharing their own stories.
Also headcollar and leading is best done by people who know what they're doing. Pulling and dragging out of foals could mean neck damage later on. Also it's about teaching them to have head collar on and off. Not how to wear it. Leave a headcollar on for 2 days and it's already too tight and uncomfortable. Sometimes I'm amazed these little creatures make it to and through weaning. Oh I know horses in the wild have babies all the time. Some make it some don't. We don't think anything happens to them in the wild.
Yup most of the time things are fine. But this doesn't sound like a situation best suited to the extra demands of mare and foal.
Terri
ribbons
Well-Known Member
Terri, I'd come to the conclusion those posting against the OP's concerns had absolutely zero knowledge about foals. (which is probably the case with the livery in question as well)
The post by putasocinit has completely confirmed my thoughts.
A mare and foal in the midst of a general livery yard is a recipe for so many different disasters it beggars belief that anyone thinks It is a good idea.
The post by putasocinit has completely confirmed my thoughts.
A mare and foal in the midst of a general livery yard is a recipe for so many different disasters it beggars belief that anyone thinks It is a good idea.
Hippona
Well-Known Member
I too have read that somewhere....you're not going mad
Not saying it's right....but....I'm also sure it's true.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
I too have read that somewhere....you're not going mad
Not saying it's right....but....I'm also sure it's true.
Hippona - you have rescued my sanity! - if that is possible! It's 26 years since I had anything to do with English Law so just can't for the life of me remember the title of the document.
There are some really weird laws around.
HBM1
Well-Known Member
I would never have allowed my mare and foal, who as I said are on a DIY livery, to be put in with other liveries' horses. I sm lucky in that I have my own family group and dam of foal is head of that group. To suggest mare and foal can just go in with others is asking for trouble. I also do not advocate sole foals but unfortunately my other two mares did not take.
Polos Mum
Well-Known Member
If I was required to run a DIY yard I think I'd charge:
£100 a week for stable and field (£25 for horse and £75 for having to put up with painful strangers in my home),
£50 an hour for their poo picking if they didn't do it - I hate doing it but it has to be done
£50 an hour plus materials to repair any damage done by their presious
a £5 fine for every sentence of moaning, slagging of other people, giving unsolicited 'advice' etc etc. so at least I'd be compensated for the constant ear bending.
I'd also have full rights to call vet, farrier, etc administer wormers, cut hard feed, fit grazing muzzle etc etc. as I sort fit if in my sole opinion it was needed for horses welfare - all at owners expense
So I guess I'd need say £1k deposit on day of arrival.
And I'd charge wonga style 3275% interest on overdue payments.
That should get me just the kind of livery clients I could cope with.
£100 a week for stable and field (£25 for horse and £75 for having to put up with painful strangers in my home),
£50 an hour for their poo picking if they didn't do it - I hate doing it but it has to be done
£50 an hour plus materials to repair any damage done by their presious
a £5 fine for every sentence of moaning, slagging of other people, giving unsolicited 'advice' etc etc. so at least I'd be compensated for the constant ear bending.
I'd also have full rights to call vet, farrier, etc administer wormers, cut hard feed, fit grazing muzzle etc etc. as I sort fit if in my sole opinion it was needed for horses welfare - all at owners expense
So I guess I'd need say £1k deposit on day of arrival.
And I'd charge wonga style 3275% interest on overdue payments.
That should get me just the kind of livery clients I could cope with.
Patterdale
Well-Known Member
Haha PM!