ester
Not slacking multitasking
I don't think you can have a go at people not having seen the videos you are talking about when you can't post a link! Feel free to tell us a website if that is all that can be managed. thanks.
Protests today / police horses
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teapot
Well-Known Member
There's this one, not sure if it's been posted already:
This was pre the bike incident.
This was pre the bike incident.
angrybird1
Well-Known Member
The Black lives matters slogan? I find it a bit annoying. Don't ALL lives matter? Black ,white Brown and yellow? I almost find it offensive. No one colour should matter more or less than any other.
That's probably idealistic but it's how I feel. This is not racist by the way. Quite the opposite.
That's probably idealistic but it's how I feel. This is not racist by the way. Quite the opposite.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
yeah that was the first one I saw
the one I posted is one that starts before that and shows the horse running through the line.
so if that was pre. bike incident the bike incident didn't trigger the bolt? as DAMS keeps saying she has seen.
I have been looking, for videos showing earlier than the one I have shared but haven't done so with my search terms.
the one I posted is one that starts before that and shows the horse running through the line.
so if that was pre. bike incident the bike incident didn't trigger the bolt? as DAMS keeps saying she has seen.
I have been looking, for videos showing earlier than the one I have shared but haven't done so with my search terms.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Really? have you missed all of the information on this posted all over the internet in the last few days
Abi90
Well-Known Member
The horse was loose when the bike incident happened. I’m not sure there is any footage of what spooked the horse. Could have been anything, could have been an unruly protestor or could have been something unrelated, as far as I know there is no footage of what set it off. I have seen footage of it tearing down the road and knocking someone over way down the street
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Yes I have seen the one of it heading back down the road too.
So the above isn't correct then? the horses didn't have bikes thrown at them before the police moved forwards at a trot/canter then one hit the traffic light.
angrybird1
Well-Known Member
No. I haven't missed it. Sorry it's how I feel. ALL Lives matter.Really? have you missed all of the information on this posted all over the internet in the last few days
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Crack on then I guess, wow.
angrybird1
Well-Known Member
So All lives don't matter?
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
I agree the police do a great job with the resources they have I can understand it's not there fault, but then these people get away with it and I wasn't implying the police are weak it's our government that's to blame, my sister is a police officer in London so I do hear about some of the problems they face.
Flicker51
Well-Known Member
Black lives matter. There were a number of lawless thugs who hijacked the protest and deserve to be held to account.
None of which distracts from the fact that the use of horses for crowd control is archaic and abusive to the horses. None of them chose to be there. Some of them will be traumatised. The bolter will be retired if lucky.
How can it be fair to subject them to all that rubbish ? It is just as bad as using them in war - they are so trusting of their riders it makes me cry ?
It’s just not necessary - there are other ways to control crowds.
None of which distracts from the fact that the use of horses for crowd control is archaic and abusive to the horses. None of them chose to be there. Some of them will be traumatised. The bolter will be retired if lucky.
How can it be fair to subject them to all that rubbish ? It is just as bad as using them in war - they are so trusting of their riders it makes me cry ?
It’s just not necessary - there are other ways to control crowds.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
If anyone is really interested there's a lot of footage here from the protest yesterday-uncut and filmed I believe by a professional press team:
You can clearly see the police officers arrive, make the decision to trot/canter through the space and then everything that happens with the bikes, projectiles being thrown etc is after that.
Unfortunately, you can't see what happens to the chestnut horse the officer falls off but you can clearly see what happens before they make the decision to charge.
Clearly there were wrong actions on both sides yesterday- but there is a lot of misinformation going around. Everything with the bikes etc was after the officer had fallen off.
I think certain papers have reported everything in a very misleading way, and it's really concerning that no-one seems to know if the person knocked down by the loose horse is ok or not.
You can clearly see the police officers arrive, make the decision to trot/canter through the space and then everything that happens with the bikes, projectiles being thrown etc is after that.
Unfortunately, you can't see what happens to the chestnut horse the officer falls off but you can clearly see what happens before they make the decision to charge.
Clearly there were wrong actions on both sides yesterday- but there is a lot of misinformation going around. Everything with the bikes etc was after the officer had fallen off.
I think certain papers have reported everything in a very misleading way, and it's really concerning that no-one seems to know if the person knocked down by the loose horse is ok or not.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
It goes without saying that all lives matter, that is the whole point. The very fact that Black Lives Matter needs to be said is also the whole point.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
At what point have they said that other people's lives don't matter?
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Thanks wishfilly, that makes the aim clearer too, it looked initially like all the people just filled in behind them before the on foot officers, but they must have gone somewhere else then.
stormox
Well-Known Member
Its how I feel too. ALL lives are important. I actually think its rather racist that banners say 'black lives matter'...... suppose it was a white man killed and the banners said 'white lives matter' - I'm sure that would be called racist.
myheartinahoofbeat
Well-Known Member
Many moons ago, in the 1990's, I was at a protest march for Student Loans. We were approaching London bridge when they brought the police horses in. I couldn't believe they were going to charge us. I remember saying to the friend I was with, ' They won't charge us, will they?' but they actually did. It was very effective and broke up the march. I also couldn't believe the hate directed at the police horses. I think the horses yesterday were lucky to get away without any injuries and I wish the rider a speedy recovery.
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
This is regular police crowd control. A line of horses with officers on foot behind. It wasn't much of a charge, mostly they were just trotting and its not possible to see what happened to the liver chestnut on the far side before it's rider fell off.
For those that don't like to see horses used perhaps you would prefer tear gas and rubber bullets?
ester
Not slacking multitasking
But it wasn't horses walking either which was said earlier. Or that they were moving faster because people were throwing things at them.
I don't think anyone was suggesting it wasn't regular police crowd control. It definintely makes more sense to me with more context though.
and nice to see them all stood behind the officer line quietly after.
I don't think anyone was suggesting it wasn't regular police crowd control. It definintely makes more sense to me with more context though.
and nice to see them all stood behind the officer line quietly after.
Abi90
Well-Known Member
Have just seen this comment on a post and I think it sums up everyone’s differing points of view perfectly. It also reinforces that we are no dealing in absolutes here:
“My reflection on this is that no one has the right to tell someone not to protest.. I think people will hold their own views though and that will depend on individual circumstances in this current time.
If you are related, or know one of the 40 to 50,000 people that have died of COVID, you will have a personal connection to the horrendous nature of this pandemic and probably dont agree with the demonstrations.
If you were brought up in poverty, without priviledge, I'm sure there are bigger concerns than a pandemic.
If you have suffered racial oppression most of your life, again, the pandemic wont be as important.
If you are a healthcare worker, exposed to COVID everyday in hospitals, this will also shape your opinion.
To summarise, I dont think there is a right or wrong answer, its probably just about being kind and appreciating other people’s circumstances”
“My reflection on this is that no one has the right to tell someone not to protest.. I think people will hold their own views though and that will depend on individual circumstances in this current time.
If you are related, or know one of the 40 to 50,000 people that have died of COVID, you will have a personal connection to the horrendous nature of this pandemic and probably dont agree with the demonstrations.
If you were brought up in poverty, without priviledge, I'm sure there are bigger concerns than a pandemic.
If you have suffered racial oppression most of your life, again, the pandemic wont be as important.
If you are a healthcare worker, exposed to COVID everyday in hospitals, this will also shape your opinion.
To summarise, I dont think there is a right or wrong answer, its probably just about being kind and appreciating other people’s circumstances”
Blazingsaddles
Well-Known Member
I would. Sadly, there is always the ‘rent-a-mob’ brigade at large demonstrations. The majority were peaceful and then you get the small & few violent thugs who desire to disrupt proceedings (planted or otherwise) either way they deserve a rubber bullet up their arse.
Lammy
Well-Known Member
thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to get across. And whether they were cantering or trotting it doesn’t matter it is still very intimidating and I get that that’s the whole point...but then don’t expect for that to not escalate the whole situation.
And angry bird nobody anywhere has said all lives don’t matter but right now black lives are the focus because they’re the ones in danger. They’re the ones getting shot in streets and killed in police custody not white ones. But go ahead with your racism I hope you grow out of it.
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Sadly, it wouldn't just be the antifa thugs that were injured, maimed or killed. Watching the French riot police has made me very thankful that ours tend to use different methods.
.
Flicker51
Well-Known Member
If need be yes
My point is as a society we shouldn’t be using sentient flight animals in this way anymore
TPO
Well-Known Member
Blazingsaddles
Well-Known Member
I understand. I’m just against using prey animals (who have no choice) in potentially violent human situations.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Actually there are lots of white people being killed by US police, whose methods do seem to be pretty brutal and need changing whatever colour person is being dealt with.
The fact that the system is also racist, obviously making it much worse, is shown by the disproportionate number of black people being killed, not the complete absence of white ones.
.
Quigleyandme
Well-Known Member
In the last of the stills Tiddlypom posted the chestnut has collided with the man and knocked him to the ground. The man appears to have had his hand on the reins. He may have been trying to stop the horse and .......got skittled. Horses, even police horses trained to push back rather than yield when pushed, even bolting horses, will go out of their way to avoid running into or over a person. Horses and dogs are used by the people charged with keeping us safe to great effect. Dogs save countless lives and limbs in war situations and sometimes they sustain terrible injuries doing so. Some people contributing to this thread feel it is wrong to use horses in the context of crowd control in protest or riot but presumably it is totally OK to enter them for Cheltenham or the Grand National or Badminton, jump them over stone walls, gates, ditches, wire when hunting, shut them in a cargo hold and fly them half way around the world to jump courses for money and fame or just let them get grossly fat in a field. There is a whole, vociferous school of thought that we have no right to do what we love to do because it is unnatural and cruel to use animals for our pleasure. Oh but we love them and take really good care of them. Do we? The thread about livery yards would suggest not. I expect all our horses would be happier and healthier living naturally in a herd on a grassy plain somewhere than cantering a perfect 20m circle. I have no right to opine on racism. I am a white, middle class, public school educated, plummy accented, home owning, cash cushioned, non-working, horsey boomer who wouldn’t presume to think I know what it is like to be poor and black but I reckon those police horses have it pretty good in comparison to some HHO horses.
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
Oh my giddy aunt. I can't believe that people still think it's okay to respond to Black Lives Matter with "all lives matter". It actually makes me really angry, but I will try to explain this the best I can. Look, of course "all lives matter" - no-one is trying to suggest otherwise. But if that is your response to Black Lives Matter then you are utterly, utterly missing the point and frankly, are part of the problem.
If you are generally interested in finding out why trying to counter the Black Lives Matter movement with "all lives matter" is so problematic, please read one of the many, many articles on the subjects.
https://www.bustle.com/articles/171...all-lives-matter-because-this-has-got-to-stop (this one is really good)
https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/06/05/week-in-review-the-fake-equality-of-all-lives-matter
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/why-shouldnt-say-all-lives-matter-a4456686.html
A good quote from one of them: "Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor, an assistant professor of African-American Studies at Princeton University, told the New York Times that it has 'always been an assumption” that all lives matter.
“The entire point of Black Lives Matter is to illustrate the extent to which black lives have not mattered in this country”.'
It is a sad fact that, in many countries (including our own), people of colour are made to feel as though their lives are less important. Black Lives Matter is a movement designed to counter this and get across the message that, actually, people like Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd DO matter. They are not disposable just because of the colour of their skin, despite the way that society has treated them. You say "suppose it was a white man killed", but the whole point is that statistically it is so much less likely to have been a white man. I don't know how you can't see that this is the issue. People of colour are treated as though their lives are worth less precisely because they are people of colour.
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