PTS a feral pony - best way?

[Zuzan]

This has already been suggested up thread , unfortunately using this method requires some form of backstop. This is usually achieved by shooting down so any stray bullet goes into the ground safely.

And further to this .. deer cullers usually aim for the heart lung area which is not instant .. it's quick but not instant.. Head shooting is v v v dif with awful possibilities if only mm out.

 

[SEL]

It doesn't sound as if this pony is all that wild; it can apparently be haltered on occasion. Getting him used to going in to a corral-type feeding area and then having the hunt in for a close-quarters shot would be the way to go for me. Good luck with whatever method you opt for.

I have managed to get a halter on, although leading is tetchy. I thought he was calmly with me the other night, then it was a switch off moment, eyes went and he was off - kicks at you as he goes. Supposed fieldsafe headcollar did not give way & still had rope attached which was worrying. But I've fenced off a bit by his gate and got him eating in there. Food orientated fortunately so he came back after a while, although only when I'd stepped away. I think head in a bucket by the gate is doable with consistency.

Set up wouldn't allow for anything long range and unless we have an emergency then I'm hoping that doesn't need to be on the option list.

 

[Stressymummy]

For heavens sake , give this girl a break !!
She is trying to do the best for this pony...

 

[Velcrobum]

It doesn't sound as if this pony is all that wild; it can apparently be haltered on occasion. Getting him used to going in to a corral-type feeding area and then having the hunt in for a close-quarters shot would be the way to go for me. Good luck with whatever method you opt for.

Local hunts around SEL's area do not have good reputations to PTS humanely. Equine vets in the area recommend Micky, hunts in Ireland might provide a good PTS service but in this area covered by http://www.equinebereavementservices.co.uk/ebs_home.htm experiences are rather different. FFS sake give SEL a break she is trying her very best to manage this pony to the best of her abilities having explored and tried many options.

 

[SEL]

It's ok - I fully appreciate there are more experienced people than me on here who would be better managing the situation. My local hunt (literally across the fields) have a shocking reputation for a lot of things but I have seen them PTS before and they'd be ok. Trouble is I can hear when it's feeding time and that makes me feel a bit icky ?

I've had very good feedback for the bereavement services so I'm hoping if I do some more work with him then I can do this as peacefully as possible.

 

[Ratface]

SEL, I admire your determination to give this pony as good a death as possible in the circumstances. You are doing your very best in difficult circumstances.

 

[stangs]

SEL, he doesn't know anything about the future. He just knows he's getting lots of tasty food at the moment, and that he's also in pain (judging by his behavioural change). You're giving him the best end possible imo.

 

[southerncomfort]

I have managed to get a halter on, although leading is tetchy. I thought he was calmly with me the other night, then it was a switch off moment, eyes went and he was off - kicks at you as he goes. Supposed fieldsafe headcollar did not give way & still had rope attached which was worrying. But I've fenced off a bit by his gate and got him eating in there. Food orientated fortunately so he came back after a while, although only when I'd stepped away. I think head in a bucket by the gate is doable with consistency.

Set up wouldn't allow for anything long range and unless we have an emergency then I'm hoping that doesn't need to be on the option list.

Horrible situation but he very clearly has the potential to badly injure someone.

You have to feel for him too, it must be awful to live in perpetual terror. He's basically a wild animal in captivity and not coping with it at all.

Really feel for you SEL but like everyone else I don't see an alternative to PTS. I know you will have thought through all the alternatives before coming to this sad conclusion and I really feel for you because however much we know its for the best, it's always deeply unpleasant to deal with.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I thought this, he's 17, so clearly someone has managed with him all these years now he's just an it, with an owner looking to kill him ASAP.

I do have to wonder what they do with the feral New forest ponies and Exmoor and Dartmoor totally wild ponies but they can be trained and find people to train them. Some are not even halter broken, I am not passing any comment on OP, and Yes I have read the whole post, seems sad to pts, but understand OP has no one coming up to offer to take the pony and try do something.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I do have to wonder what they do with the feral New forest ponies and Exmoor and Dartmoor totally wild ponies but they can be trained and find people to train them. Some are not even halter broken, I am not passing any comment on OP, and Yes I have read the whole post, seems sad to pts, but understand OP has no one coming up to offer to take the pony and try do something.

The guardians of the Exmoor ponies are knowledgeable people, experienced in handling ferals. That is the huge difference.

 

[milliepops]

presumably they also have suitable facilities available and experienced help. and not sharing the space with other vulnerable people. The OP is not a heartless numpty horse owner, she's clearly thought this all through and reached the only reasonable conclusion. Additionally, being lumbered with a big difficult responsibility because someone else has abdicated theirs is different to voluntarily signing up for one.

 

[Dave's Mam]

presumably they also have suitable facilities available and experienced help. and not sharing the space with other vulnerable people. The OP is not a heartless numpty horse owner, she's clearly thought this all through and reached the only reasonable conclusion. Additionally, being lumbered with a big difficult responsibility because someone else has abdicated theirs is different to voluntarily signing up for one.

Exactly.

 

[Goldenstar]

Sel if you can feed him from a bucket you can use oral sedation when he’s a bit slow a vet can get sedation into the bum muscles via a long line then then get them gradually more and more sedated until the can either shoot them or inject them .
I have done a few time usually using a heras fencing pen that the ponies are trained to to come in to for tasty food over a few days .
We closed in the fencing to trap them or the single pony in a small area .
It’s not what you what for your own but I have seen this work it’s quite time intensive but it’s got the job done safely .

 

[paddy555]

I do have to wonder what they do with the feral New forest ponies and Exmoor and Dartmoor totally wild ponies but they can be trained and find people to train them. Some are not even halter broken, I am not passing any comment on OP, and Yes I have read the whole post, seems sad to pts, but understand OP has no one coming up to offer to take the pony and try do something.

To answer your specific question (rather than comment on the rest of thread) I have handled feral Dartmoor hill ponies both for myself and for others who have taken them on. When they come off the common they are not halter broken and have never been handled, they also need chipping.
I had a similar pony to OP. Nervous beyond belief, not a baby, and who had clearly been badly abused by people. He had been bought as a sweet little foal at the sales and then they found he grew a lot bigger, they couldn't handle him, he was not gelded and after several years they appear to have turned him out on the common to be a feral pony again. Once he moved in we spent our time looking at each other from about 70 years distant across the field. The normal methods of handling nervous/unbroken horses don't work with these ponies.
Mine had to be driven into a stable but never made any progress whilst he was there. I never got any closer. He would have just gone over the top of me. Then I got help from someone experienced in handling ferals and in the space of a short afternoon learnt how to halter, lead and handle them. By the end of the afternoon I could halter, handle and lead him and then went on to work on others. The only facilities needed are a stable.
He turned out pretty good (still have him). This is him. My mother was not experienced with horses so he did very well to stand there so camly. He had never been taken into the living room before.

These are simply comments on your post to explain about ferals not about SELs pony,

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

I have 3 retired horses no longer suitable for ridden work for a variety of reasons. If any of them require any form of serious veterinary intervention I would not put them throught it as it would be very stressful for them. They have a good quality of life and I choose to keep them despite their drain on my finances but if I ( for whatever reason) am unable to provide a suitable level of care for them I would not hestitate to have them PTS. This is what you should sign up for when you decide to take on horse ownership. I completely support SEL's decision to resolve the sad and unfortunate situation she finds herself in. People are very quick to judge but if you say 'do you want it then?' and they don't want to step up then their opinìon is utterly valueless.

 

[chaps89]

The thing is, in this situation pts is likely to be more humane than re-homing anyway. It’s been said before on here, pts is far from the worst thing that can happen to a horse, particularly if done at home as calmly as possible/the situation will allow.

From the sounds of it the horse has been there a long time, his fight or flight instinct seems to be strong, there are concerns as to whether he’d load or travel. Much less then whatever happens to him when he gets off the other end, new environment stresses etc.
Personally I wouldn’t want to put a horse through that, pts in his familiar environment is far nicer to him imho.

You’d need to be exceptionally experienced to take this on, if you are I’d hazard a guess you’re unlikely to want to take on an older horse who is a laminitis risk, so the chances of this person existing and wanting to take the horse on are so slim anyway.

 

[SEL]

The thing is, in this situation pts is likely to be more humane than re-homing anyway. It’s been said before on here, pts is far from the worst thing that can happen to a horse, particularly if done at home as calmly as possible/the situation will allow.

From the sounds of it the horse has been there a long time, his fight or flight instinct seems to be strong, there are concerns as to whether he’d load or travel. Much less then whatever happens to him when he gets off the other end, new environment stresses etc.
Personally I wouldn’t want to put a horse through that, pts in his familiar environment is far nicer to him imho.

You’d need to be exceptionally experienced to take this on, if you are I’d hazard a guess you’re unlikely to want to take on an older horse who is a laminitis risk, so the chances of this person existing and wanting to take the horse on are so slim anyway.

You've pretty much summed up my 3am thought processes there. Even if someone offered to take him on I'd be questioning whether moving him is the right thing anyway. Plus what would you do with a 17yo barely handled, very reactive pony who may have medical issues and kicks with intent? I'd worry someone would do enough work to sell him on and as a pony he's prime "child with inexperienced parents" territory. I'd never forgive myself.

I'm experienced enough around horses to know when I'm out of my depth and I have the safety of others to think about too. While he's with me his basic welfare is taken care of and I can control the environment. It isn't an easy or pleasant decision calling the end of a horse's life but it comes to all of us sadly - & you're right that there are much worse ways than at home as peacefully as we can make it.

 

[Ratface]

There are many worse outcomes for dangerous animals than an instant and final oblivion. Especially when their head down in a bucket, eating.
I hope that you're able to resolve this sad situation in the near future.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Have just come into this thread.......

You say you have TWO "sitting tenants", one of being the "ancient cob", and your "Feral". I agree with all other wisdom on here that suggests PTS for the Feral; there is frankly no other "kind" option that you can take other than to do the job by shooting it. Sad, but necessary IMO.

Can I ask who owns the cob?? Do you??

Because what I am going to suggest is that IF you do feel the only option is to put down the Feral, then IF they are pairbonded (and they probably are), then it would be the kindest option to do them both together.

I did it with my two oldies which was three years ago this week; they were both pairbonded, and veteran, and we lined them both up together and did the job (vet/injection).

Re. your Feral. Around here we have an excellent licensed knackerman who is skilled for not only equine but zoo animals as well, and is therefore very experienced at using darts and then shooting. He did my mare when we had her PTS in the summer as she was needle-phobic, but I remember something he said was that the times when things have "gone wrong" is when someone prior-sedated the horse prior to his visit. He said it is really better NOT to do this! So am repeating this just for your information as it has been suggested on here. Please don't do it!! It can be very dangerous apparently when a horse which has been prior-sedated suddenly reacts to a stranger and that is when things can go badly wrong, according to an expert.

IF you own the cob, then personally I know what I'd do, I'd have them put down together, same day same occasion. If you put the Feral down and the cob is left he is liable to grieve terribly. Perhaps you could talk to the owner if you don't own it?? It really would be the kindest thing to do..........

 

[Hepsibah]

Sel has already said the cob doesn't give a fig for the feral pony as it hasn't been in there long.

 

[SEL]

Have just come into this thread.......

IF you own the cob, then personally I know what I'd do, I'd have them put down together, same day same occasion. If you put the Feral down and the cob is left he is liable to grieve terribly. Perhaps you could talk to the owner if you don't own it?? It really would be the kindest thing to do..........

That's exactly what we agreed to this week. The old boy is on borrowed time, although seems to have found his youth flirting with my mare over the fence - if ever there's a girl going to give an old man a heart attack its that one

We've also agreed that his owner won't attempt to handle the feral other than putting food out for him (which is usually hassle free) and if he needs handling then I'll do it when there's more than one of us at the yard. She is happy to leave the oldie out 24:7 as long as possible which takes away another problem. In the meantime I'm trying to do some headcollar work with him.

Interesting that you say to not sedate in advance. That's a good warning.

 

[SEL]

Sel has already said the cob doesn't give a fig for the feral pony as it hasn't been in there long.

He doesn't - but his owner is worried about leaving him on his own and my mare's would torment him if they were all put in together. Poor lad is getting a hard enough time over the fence with them. At the moment I'll just wait and see how the next month or so plays out. Weather is being kind to an arthritic old boy, but no doubt will change at some point and then decisions will be made

 

[Ambers Echo]

No advice but wanted to add my support for what you are doing. So many people fail to take the difficult decisions even when failing to act would risk more suffering down the line and risk serious injury to others. Ignore the very few self congratulatory and judgemental numpties. Hope it is all resolved one way or another soon.

 

[paddy555]

No advice but wanted to add my support for what you are doing. So many people fail to take the difficult decisions even when failing to act would risk more suffering down the line and risk serious injury to others. Ignore the very few self congratulatory and judgemental numpties. Hope it is all resolved one way or another soon.

is the penultimate sentence aimed at me?

 

[Ambers Echo]

No not you x

 

[Ambers Echo]

Sorry Paddy555, I think what you did with that pony is fab and I love the pic. It was the unkind 'at least I can sleep at night' and similar comments I was referring to.

 

[SEL]

I wasn't sure whether to update this thread because I know some people disagreed with me, but there were a lot of you who were incredibly supportive and I really want to thank you for that.

I was happy to let the situation play out and try and work with my little feral pony, but as winter set it it became obvious that I couldn't safely overcome some of his ingrained habits and with no daylight he wasn't getting any consistent contact apart from food being put in the field. On top of that it was blindingly obvious his teeth were causing problems, he wasn't sound behind (degenerative suspensory disease) and without the distraction of grass to eat was getting more and more unpleasant to be around. Should have got on with it before Xmas, but was worried about the old cob and not wanting him to go downhill during the holiday period, so called time 2 weeks ago.

Old cob saw him go and was obviously a little distressed then but calmed down very quickly and is a lot more relaxed than I was ever expecting. I think he doesn't like sharing his food and can eat at his own pace. He can still talk to everyone over the fence and looks happier than I've seen him - which is a relief. He's also able to eat a lot more now he isn't competing with a greedy native.

Couldn't fault the vets from the moment I called them and explained the tricky situation. Took my OH and I over an hour to get the pony into a stable with buckets of food, but once he was in the vet got sedative in IM over the door and then it was just a case of waiting. We did have the removal team turn up with the gun just in case but it wasn't needed.

I keep reminding myself that he had 15 odd years as a lawnmower and has no idea that he could have made someone a very nice pony if his life had played out differently. In the end he was gorging himself on a likit and never even felt the sedative go in so it was as peaceful for him as it was ever going to be.

 

[pistolpete]

Bless you. Conscientious and kind end for a troubled soul. Thank you for caring for him so much and so well.

 

[milliepops]

given the circumstances it sounds like as good a result as you could have hoped for. I'm glad it all went reasonably smoothly and the old cob is doing well.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I wasn't sure whether to update this thread because I know some people disagreed with me, but there were a lot of you who were incredibly supportive and I really want to thank you for that.

I was happy to let the situation play out and try and work with my little feral pony, but as winter set it it became obvious that I couldn't safely overcome some of his ingrained habits and with no daylight he wasn't getting any consistent contact apart from food being put in the field. On top of that it was blindingly obvious his teeth were causing problems, he wasn't sound behind (degenerative suspensory disease) and without the distraction of grass to eat was getting more and more unpleasant to be around. Should have got on with it before Xmas, but was worried about the old cob and not wanting him to go downhill during the holiday period, so called time 2 weeks ago.

Old cob saw him go and was obviously a little distressed then but calmed down very quickly and is a lot more relaxed than I was ever expecting. I think he doesn't like sharing his food and can eat at his own pace. He can still talk to everyone over the fence and looks happier than I've seen him - which is a relief. He's also able to eat a lot more now he isn't competing with a greedy native.

Couldn't fault the vets from the moment I called them and explained the tricky situation. Took my OH and I over an hour to get the pony into a stable with buckets of food, but once he was in the vet got sedative in IM over the door and then it was just a case of waiting. We did have the removal team turn up with the gun just in case but it wasn't needed.

I keep reminding myself that he had 15 odd years as a lawnmower and has no idea that he could have made someone a very nice pony if his life had played out differently. In the end he was gorging himself on a likit and never even felt the sedative go in so it was as peaceful for him as it was ever going to be.

Sending lots of hugs.

Best outcome for all.