PTS on Behavioural Grounds?

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unknownn

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Recently bought a pony as a project.. to eventually sell - very talented. 8 years old.. we're 10th owner. Horse been going fine, arrived and got some weight on him, been a perfect horse to deal with. Contacted *all* previous owners listed on passport (more were found when asking owners) all bar first owner had problems with nervousness and being bad to catch.. A number of them had problems with bolting and one had a problem with bucking. Also comments about being cold backed - true but not severe, only very mild.
Horse had been fine with us and caused us no concern - had been hacking, cantering in open fields etc, schooling and more. We'd got him catching well within the first few days and although still nervous he accepted things quickly and is a sweet boy.
Now.. Saturday midday I am schooling him as usual.. been going for about 10-15 mins and had been perfect. Been cantering for a circle and was half way round another when horse suddenly bolted and bronced - throwing me to the ground.. it was a suspected broken pelvis and air ambulance was circling ready to get me.. luckily it was severe tissue damage however I am still recovering - I will not be on a horse for weeks. Obviously I understand this could have been a lot worse.
There was no cause for this that I am aware of - he felt like he might of spooked but obviously we were cantering and lurched forward - this directly went into a bolt so I don't know if he just lurched forward to bolt or not.

Now comes an issue - I will never sell this horse - I wouldn't live with myself knowing he had caused me injury and due to his size could cause a child injury. I do not feel safe on him as it's not like this is the first time he had done such thing and he has other mental issues.. whether this is caused by being ill treated we don't know as first owner did not have any problems.

This horse's spine was xrayed less than two years ago (when one owner was having bucking issues) and he also passed a 5* vetting a couple of years ago. Passed vetting with flying colours and xrays showed nothing unusual. Back has been done regularly and tack fits.

If I could get him as a companion I would retire him to field and loan him out however he is 14.2, can be bad to catch and doesn't like being out for long periods of time - not sure anyone would be interested in him.

So, the question is - do I PTS because although he is fine on the ground he is a danger when ridden theoretically or do I give him a 2nd chance? I have had mixed opinions.

Any comments about tack/back/physical checks etc will be ignore - they have been checked. Any comments about experience will also be ignored - he has been fine with us for weeks - there was nothing different.
 
I had a pony a few years back that never got as far as being broken in due to his behaviour. I rehomed him to someone more knowledgeable and they never got him as far as being broken in either as his behaviour was just too unpredicatable - he currently lives there as a companion

If I could rewind time I wouldn't hesitate to have him PTS as although he is officially safe he still has the potential to hurt someone with his sudden and blind panicking
 
There comes a time to stop .
Horses like this are a sink hole for money time and emotion and they are dangerous I think there's likely to be something wrong with this horse but I would not be throwing money at trying to find out only the vets will come well out of that and I would PTS if I were you .
I wish you a speedy recovery and don't beat yourself up .
You have cared for him and will treat him with respect a horse deserves rather than pass him on again .
 
Goldenstar said:
There comes a time to stop .
Horses like this are a sink hole for money time and emotion and they are dangerous I think there's likely to be something wrong with this horse but I would not be throwing money at trying to find out only the vets will come well out of that and I would PTS if I were you .
I wish you a speedy recovery and don't beat yourself up .
You have cared for him and will treat him with respect a horse deserves rather than pass him on again .
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All of this, you know he has had problems long term, whether they are mental or physical nothing has show up so far to explain why he reacts the way he does, you have to consider yourself as well as him in your decision and as he may not enjoy the life of a companion then having him pts means he is no longer at risk and neither are you, you are doing right by him, move on and have no regrets, he will know nothing about it.
 
Unless you can justify keeping him as a companion, I would PTS. It does sound as if he has something wrong in his mind and you may well never find a cause. Not worth risking anyones life :(
 
I think it is a very responsible thing to do, don't pass him on again and don't rely on him being kept by someone else as a companion (even if you could find such a home). People get very tempted to have another go and ignore what they've been told.

I've PTS a four year old for behavioural reasons - not only was he dangerous, he was clearly not a happy horse. PM showed he had a brain tumour.
 
Yes I would PTS , as you would never forgive yourself if you loaned him as a companion, and some well meaning person got on for a ride and he did the same and hurt them... best not to take the risk unless you can keep yourself, but then he is an expensive lawn mower
 
This sounds so much like an 8 year old WB we had here. Sent owner to hospital twice. Second time was life altering. He had clean xrays too. I suspect a tumour (he had puffy eye orbits where they should have been hollow - like a cushings horse. He also got laminitis for no reason as far as we could see.). I would have PTS, yes, but wasn't my horse. What a shame. Poor pony obviously isn't right. If your pony were mine I would probably scan ligaments and xRay hocks as both are relatively cheap to do before making final decision.
 
I knew of a horse that became very unpredictable having been fine for many years. Would suddenly bolt for no apparent reason either when being ridden, led in hand, cross tied for grooming, etc. put two people in hospital. Was a talented horse and all checks done. Eventually owner agreed to PTS and a brain tumour was found during the post mortem
 
I would also PTS. I knew I was my mare's last chance when she came to me, but having uncovered a physical issue I know what I'm working with. She'll never be moved on though as she's too unpredictable because of it.

If you are saying as an experienced rider that your gut feeling is this was something odd and you don't want to get back on board then trust your gut.
 
I have one that responds like this, bone scan revealed arthritis of facet joints in spine - this would never have shown up on a normal X-ray. Doesn't change future though, he's still unrideable so whatever the cause it doesn't matter, he will always be unrideable
 
I bought a horse. Lovely handsome chap, very talented. I spent 18 months trying to back him. Various people helped me and didn't get anywhere and gave up. There was something "not right". He had vet checks, physio checks, animal communicators everything. I was going to sending him away as a last chance (helpful instructor had made sure no local backers would take him)and If not be pts. However my friend who had helped me with him was not ready to give up (very very experienced person) Plan was she would loan him for a year. I gifted him to her shortly after. His behaviour got worse and he was stressed, started refusing to be stabled. Still not progressing with backing. She also sent him away, they didn't manage him either and he was pts. My only wish was that I had had him pts myself. I was clinging to the hope it was me and he would be better with someone else.
 
Goldenstar said:
There comes a time to stop .
Horses like this are a sink hole for money time and emotion and they are dangerous I think there's likely to be something wrong with this horse but I would not be throwing money at trying to find out only the vets will come well out of that and I would PTS if I were you .
I wish you a speedy recovery and don't beat yourself up .
You have cared for him and will treat him with respect a horse deserves rather than pass him on again .
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Couldn't have put it better myself
 
A friend of mine bought a youngster that bolted in hand a couple of times. It then did it under saddle having been fine for a long time. He came to me, and was fine for a few days, and then did it again. I would have PTS as feel he was dangerous. He was also only about 14h. An old owner bought him back, and he still isn't being ridden a year on from what I hear.
 
Goldenstar said:
There comes a time to stop .
Horses like this are a sink hole for money time and emotion and they are dangerous I think there's likely to be something wrong with this horse but I would not be throwing money at trying to find out only the vets will come well out of that and I would PTS if I were you .
I wish you a speedy recovery and don't beat yourself up .
You have cared for him and will treat him with respect a horse deserves rather than pass him on again .
Click to expand...

I have to agree with GS but I will also say that I bought a 4 yr old, who I knew had been starved as a two yr old. She had a lovely, affectionate temperament, was always easy to catch, got on well with all field companions and for about a year was an easy ride for her age. She then became more difficult to handle and ride, I stopped ridding on the roiad, then stopped riding her at all. By the time she was rising 12, we were thinking that we would have to pts, because she had become so unpredictable and dangerous to handle. Then for various reasons we cut out all feed except hay. The difference was miraculous! Within a week, she could be walked in hand anywhere. We then worked out that refined sugar and cereals made her I'll, if she had been human, you could have said that she was psychotic, she must have had a dreadful headache most of the time. We kept her until she was 24 although she was an unridden companion, as we could never be sure that passersby hadn't fed her.

Wishing you a speedy recovery.
 
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SEL said:
If you are saying as an experienced rider that your gut feeling is this was something odd and you don't want to get back on board then trust your gut.
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^^ this.

I very nearly had my project shot because she was dangerous and it was clear I would never be able to sell her on.

Fortunately for her (and me!) she came right at the 11th hour. If she hadn't, a one-way trip to the kennels was on the cards. I'm also an experienced rider and I think you have to know when you've reached the point of no return with a horse. A friend of mine had a bad feeling about a breaker she had in, and she didn't listen to her gut - it broke her spine in 7 places. I've learned from her misfortune.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I have to agree with GS but I will also say that I bought a 4 yr old, who I knew had been starved as a two yr old. She had a lovely, affectionate temperament, was always easy to catch, got on well with all field companions and for about a year was an easy ride for her age. She then became more difficult to handle and ride, I stopped ridding on the roiad, then stopped riding her at all. By the time she was rising 12, we were thinking that we would have to pts, because she had become so unpredictable and dangerous to handle. Then for various reasons we cut out all feed except hay. The difference was miraculous! Within a week, she could be walked in hand anywhere. We then worked out that refined sugar and cereals made her I'll, if she had been human, you could have said that she was psychotic, she must have had a dreadful headache most of the time. We kept her until she was 24 although she was an unridden companion, as we could never be sure that passersby hadn't fed her.

Wishing you a speedy recovery.
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And that ^^^ is definitely worth a try before any decision. We have a Sec D who is a complete thug if he has any sugar whatsoever and refined cereals were almost as bad. He has fibre foods and hay now and has reverted to his original happy-go-lucky self.

OTOH we also have a WB cross who, despite extensive tests (and expensive tests!) the vets never found out what was wrong but they knew that something was definitely wrong. Our vet believes a brain tumour, 99.9% of the time he is a perfect gentleman but then he will snap and go mad, on the ground or ridden, in hand or even loose in the field. He would have been an amazing dressage horse but hasn't been ridden since he was 5.. he is now 15. We were very lucky in that daughter's OH has land and we were able to retire him with a companion (the Sec D who is sugar intolerant) otherwise we would have PTS as he isn't always safe to have around, let alone ride. Daughter 'reads' him very well and has learned when an attack is imminent and to leave him alone but to go and comfort him after it has passed as he stands and shakes with fear. His behaviour was always odd... he went through a spell where he had to wear a headcollar in the field or he would stand at the gate and pine; when you went to catch him you had to get the clip on the headcollar without touching it, as he thought you might take it off him. He was backed loose in the field without even a headcollar and was sooo easy until this started.

Such a shame and such a waste, but he is happy except for maybe two 'attacks' a year.
 
I would definitely PTS - I had my little TB PTS for just that reason last year, I tried and tried with him but after a year it was clear that he was never going to change and after my VERY experienced yard owner told me he was dangerous I knew it was time to give up....
 
Thank you everyone - you have been very kind. Still thinking over things.

Wagtail - I would but at the end of the day it all comes to the same thing - I was never going to keep this horse and I don't feel comfortable selling him ever. I need to think about it all. Bit of a mess still.

Pearlsasinger - Interesting you mention the sugar. I don't believe it to be the cause as previous home he was on no feed and bolted with them. He won't be caught once on a spring grass but was the same to be ridden and handled apart from catching.
 
I have a pony with similar issues.

I got him at 10 months and he is now 7. He is brilliant on the ground, great to catch and loads himself onto the trailer but when ridden he will be fine one minute and the next buck until you are off and if you manage to somehow stop the bucks he will run off with you, even when he is being 'good' you still feel like you are sitting on a powder keg that will explode at any minute. He's had all the checks done and they have all come back clear.

Luckily I am in a position to keep him as a field ornament and companion but if my circumstances ever change then he will be PTS never rehomed as he isn't safe and at 14hh he is a good height for children and I would never be able to forgive myself if I sold him on and he injured a child!
 
Another thinking you'd be right to pts.
If this was a first, a one off I'd think give him another try but as you've done so much research into his past and he's never really been safe I think it's time. Consider this accident a lucky escape. Also as you say at that size he could well end up with a child on him even if rehomed as a companion.
 
From what you've said, you gave him his chance. So it is PTS. You don't want to keep him, and, as everyone has said, even if you rehomed him as a companion, everyone who thinks they know better might put a child on him.
 
A bolter can't bronc. It is going too fast.

So, we're not talking about a bolting horse here. We're talking about a bucking horse as far as I can see.

We're talking about a horse which as been checked for a few things (in previous homes? none of who took responsibility for sorting/keeping/PTS and have since told new owner how much effort they made to sort anything despite having him for less than a year on average each?) and then has bucked once with new owner.

Obvs new owner had a bad experience and I wish OP well. But I wouldn't personally be taking what owners who have previously passed him around without much investigation (they simply can't have done that much as each had him such a short time!) say as the gospel truth. I would suspect, whatever the experience level of the OP, that a few of the other owners simply didn't have time/inclination/ability/funds to sort a bucking horse who occasionally p1ssed off with them.

Poor horse.
 
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GirlFriday said:
A bolter can't bronc. It is going too fast.

So, we're not talking about a bolting horse here. We're talking about a bucking horse as far as I can see.
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Sorry.. have you never seen a horse galloping in the field and bucking? This horse was bolting i'm afraid to tell you.

GirlFriday said:
none of who took responsibility for sorting/keeping/PTS and have since told new owner how much effort they made to sort anything despite having him for less than a year on average each?) and then has bucked once with new owner
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Well.. if you must know more detail. One had him professionally restarted.. a couple of people restarted him themself. Two admitted to me they nearly had him pts but decided not to as they sold him with the knowledge of what he had done to the next. The first owner had him for four years. The lady he bucked did not just have one buck - he bronced her off and her instructor off.. hence getting a spinal xray.

I have notes of 5* vetting present in passport as proof. I also have proof of xrays.

This horse has other mental issues I have not gone into depth with in the hopes I can stay as anonymous as possible as my accident is not "public" as such and nor is the decision regarding the horse.
 
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