Reality check...

[SusieT]

A schoolmaster for the level you want will be vastly more expensive than this horse even at 13- so either he's not the schoolmaster for the level you want (I suspect he's more a riding club schoolmaster) - where is his competition record? how do you know he's actually done much and how do you know he's not been turned away due to injury?
I would be wary of thin - means he's likely to be hard to keep weight on.I'd go back and try again at the very least. ask what he's fed etc. try him in a field.

 

[spacefaer]

I bought a schoolmaster 15yrs ago - he was a retired event horse with advanced points, schooled to adv medium and he was 16.1hh, 13 yrs old. He cost me 5k back then.

How much of a schoolmaster is this horse? What has he done? Has he competed in any affiliated competitions?

 

[Flame_]

Why is it you were looking at/interested in two VASTLY different horses?
One sounded fancily bred and a challenge. One is supposedly a schoolmaster.
/QUOTE]

I wondered that. Why not decide what age, size and type of horse you want, what exactly you would like to do with it and what you want it to be doing already, then view horses that tick those boxes?

 

[ester]

How long has the previous owner had him? TBH he doesn't sound like a schoolmaster to me, a horse that would do the job but not a schoolmaster. Could someone take him out and get a decent elem test out of him tomorrow?

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I'm looking for a 15.2 - 16.2 between 8 and 14yo that's been there and done that and I could just crack on with and have fun. I only considered the dressage mare as I'm in a position where I could put her on full livery and have her schooled by my yard owner. It was a moment of excitement as established I could never afford her, but on reflection she definitely wasn't at all what I was looking for. The schoolmaster on the other hand ticked all the boxes...it's just the concerns over weight and passport that make me think perhaps he's not for me.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

How long has the previous owner had him? TBH he doesn't sound like a schoolmaster to me, a horse that would do the job but not a schoolmaster. Could someone take him out and get a decent elem test out of him tomorrow?

I doubt he could do elem tomorrow but I'm prepared to put the work into him if he's safe and sane. At £3k I wasn't expecting a worldbeater, but figured if he could bring a total novice from learning to ride to eventing that he would easily give me the confidence I needed and that's worth its weight in gold to me.

 

[Apercrumbie]

I think it sounds like you really want this horse - great! Just get the passport thing sorted and ask for your vet's opinion about the weight. None of this sounds insurmountable.

 

[ester]

I mostly asked that because if you want to do medium dressage unless he is working at or approaching that level now (and it really doesn't sound like it) then he is 13 so potentially only has limited time until he is a bit creaky to bring him on to that level. I do say that as the owner of a 23 year old who I've had for 11 years and who schools at elem/medium but hasn't competed beyond novice for some time as he physically struggles to take his weight behind to score well. It perhaps depends whether the eventing or the dressage has more weight for you.

 

[splashgirl45]

did you look at the condition diagrams above? and is he really a 1? if so I would be worried that he has something wrong with him .my mare is nutty and some time ago she lost a lot of weight but she still behaved exactly the same as normal so keeping her thin wouldn't work to make her quiet... however if you really like him and you feel safe that counts for a lot....3k is not much money for a safe, sound horse that you feel confident on......why not go back again when you have come back from skiing to try him again and go out hacking or take him round fields to see if he changes and you still feel happy on him., if he is sold in the meantime , keep looking...where was he advertised?

 

[SO1]

If he is on sales livery he may not be getting any turnout which may account for his sharpness. If he has effectively been dumped in a field over winter and not wormed or given much care they can drop weight very quickly without access to decent grass.

How long has the horse been on sales livery. On sales livery the dealer will charge a fee for each week the horse is with them plus commission. So the low price may reflect the owner wanting the horse to be sold as quickly as possible so they don't have to pay for weeks of sales livery.

You have to see the passport before making any decision and ideally speak if you can to the current owner and possible see if you can get in touch with a previous owner as well.

I am going against the grain here and thinking that if he is really a decent competition school master who has fallen on hard times and just needs a bit of food and some refresher schooling to get him back to his former glory and will pass a vetting and comes with decent tack, rugs etc then he is actually a bargain.

If he has been competing at RC level can you find out which RC and see if you can find anyone from that RC who knew him when he is was in better condition?

 

[AdorableAlice]

Come on guys, the horse is on a professional yard on sales livery. It is presented in a poor condition with no passport to verify markings, age, health records or breeding. There is no competitive record for the horse claimed to be schoolmaster. What is that telling you.

It is telling me that the horse is of unknown age and background, the body condition indicates a health condition or a owner who starved it because it frightened the bejesus out of her and she wrongly thought a hungry horse is a quiet horse. It tells me the owner finally realised she was out of her depth and let it go, regardless of the state it was in, to be sold.

Always always read what the advert does not say and recognise what is not presented to you rather than what is. A passport will no doubt be found when the horse goes to the vet. With the obscure breeding of TB,ID and SF I doubt any recorded parentage will be listed so any old passport will do and at 13 I bet there is no chip to verify the passport produced matches the horse.

Cynical, me, never ! just seen a lot and have come to the conclusion that really honest older horses are hard to come by and really honest schoolmasters that have given years of pleasure are usually treasured and kept.

Be careful OP and I hope you find a lovely horse.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Thanks guys. As much as I liked the way I felt on him I know that if someone else had posted this thread I would be saying the same as you guys so please don't feel this is falling on deaf ears...it's not, if anything you're just confirming my fears.

He's been on sales livery for two months now but only advertised for a month as they wanted to focus on his schooling for the first month...in honesty this in itself worries me as he was clearly unfit when I tried him and two months would have been long enough in my mind to at least get a little condition on him.

Was he really scoring a 1? I'd say quite possibly. His hips were really jutting and ribs were visible even when he was at the far end of the school. I agree my first thought was he was being kept thin to quieten but on the flip what if he's just fallen on hard times and with a bit of feeding could come return to his former self?

I did hack him on the day. Rode him on a main road and open field and turned him multiple times towards and away from home to check he wasn't likely to nap. In honesty I tried everything I possibly could to test him on the day.

He was advertised on horsequest, although when I saw the ad I had no idea he wasn't being sold privately.

I've contacted the seller this morning to basically say I'll be pulling out of the sale if I don't get proof of his passport today. So I'll see what happens next I guess.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Come on guys, the horse is on a professional yard on sales livery. It is presented in a poor condition with no passport to verify markings, age, health records or breeding. There is no competitive record for the horse claimed to be schoolmaster. What is that telling you.

It is telling me that the horse is of unknown age and background, the body condition indicates a health condition or a owner who starved it because it frightened the bejesus out of her and she wrongly thought a hungry horse is a quiet horse. It tells me the owner finally realised she was out of her depth and let it go, regardless of the state it was in, to be sold.

Always always read what the advert does not say and recognise what is not presented to you rather than what is. A passport will no doubt be found when the horse goes to the vet. With the obscure breeding of TB,ID and SF I doubt any recorded parentage will be listed so any old passport will do and at 13 I bet there is no chip to verify the passport produced matches the horse.

Cynical, me, never ! just seen a lot and have come to the conclusion that really honest older horses are hard to come by and really honest schoolmasters that have given years of pleasure are usually treasured and kept.

Be careful OP and I hope you find a lovely horse.

Very very wise words, which hit the nail on the head for me!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Well, I think if he had been honestly advertised [not as as schoolmaster], but as as 13[17] year old in poor condition and on sales livery you would not have considered seeing him.
Though it is not likely he will pass a 5 stage vetting, I would worry that he is never going to teach you much, more the other way round, and you won't find anyone willing to buy him after you have spent six months improving him.
I think they are looking for someone who will fall in love and buy regardless, it should not be you!
The sales livery has done him no good, so he will need two months to get him in to some sort of natural outline, and about three months to get the condition right. Really this is not your job: work out how much it would cost to have the horse at this yard, say £1500 and you probably have the value of the animal at this time, assuming he is 12 going on 13, not 13 going on 17.
In my mind a condition score of 1 is a welfare case, he is probably nearer 2, but the fact they have not fed him properly is another worry.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Well, I think if he had been honestly advertised [not as as schoolmaster], but as as 13/17 year old on sales livery you would not have considered seeing him.
Though it is not likely he will pass a 5 stage vetting, I would worry that he is never going to teach you much, more the other way round, and you won't find anyone willing to buy him after you have spent six months improving him.
I think they are looking or someone who will fall in love and buy regardless, it should not be you!
The sales livery has done him no good, so he will need two months to get him in to some sort of natural outline, and about three months to get the condition right.

Very true. Had he not been advertised as a schoolmaster I probably wouldn't have gone and viewed him. It's hard as I'm capable of schooling and bringing something on, and to be honest he seemed fairly well schooled when he wasn't second guessing me so I don't necessarily think he's a project, but with my budget there's definitely something out there with less question marks than him.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Best plan is to say, you don't want the horse.
Or, if you do want a project, take a gamble, you could say you will consider it if it passes a 5 stage vetting with X rays and is a £1.00 cost. All conditional on you seeing this elusive passport first. That will probably anger them, after all they wanted rid, but not for nothing........... Really that is not your problem. If they say that is scandalous, just say that what you saw was not what they advertised, smile and walk away.

I have seen a horse made in to a schoolmaster, under top [world class] dressage riders, but the one I am thinking of cost a £1.00 and found a good place to call home, where he has his place as a schoolmaster for all ages and stages. I don't think they would sell him, he is pretty much a valuable and respected member of staff!

 

[only_me]

A schoolmaster that doesn't go in a correct outline?

The bouncing and sparkle wouldn't concern me in a schoolmaster, but the condition, no passport, no name to check record and the poor outline shouts that he isn't a schoolmaster.

At most, he sounds like a low level riding club all rounder.
Personally I'd be looking at a novice eventer who probably won't go further or even a good PN horse who is again won't go further in eventing - they might not be advertised as a schoolmaster but should be easy enough to get on and go

 

[_HP_]

What sort of people put a horse up for sale at a condition score of 1 ?!
What sort of people allow a horse to get to a condition score of 1?!
Why would you ride a horse with a condition score of 1?!
Good grief

 

[gunnergundog]

He was advertised on horsequest, although when I saw the ad I had no idea he wasn't being sold privately.

.

Care to share a link to the advertisement?

 

[ester]

Care to share a link to the advertisement?

he's very easy to find given the info.

OP I assume he looks more like the second photo right now, and frankly what a photo to use anyway, that lovely downhill moment of canter!

 

[FlyingCircus]

he's very easy to find given the info.

OP I assume he looks more like the second photo right now, and frankly what a photo to use anyway, that lovely downhill moment of canter!

He is, if I have the right ad (South East?). If that is him, he doesn't look like a schoolmaster at all since they only manage 2 pics. One of him jumping and one a terrible pic of a canter...Surely a schoolmaster would have vast arrays of pictures from various events etc.

 

[ester]

I wonder how old the jumping one is. It is a nice enough pic but a pretty small jump.

 

[be positive]

he's very easy to find given the info.

OP I assume he looks more like the second photo right now, and frankly what a photo to use anyway, that lovely downhill moment of canter!

He doesn't look that poor though just a bit lean, agree about the photo not being the best, he is described as a RC allrounder, nothing more and the suggestion is that he has done his job teaching his owner the ropes so they have now moved on to something more serious, unless they have said in conversation that he is schooled to med/ evented BE then it is highly unlikely that he has done any more than novice RC teams. It is also clear that it is a trade advert, (T) for trade after the phone number rather than (P) for private.

 

[ester]

Hence more like, not exactly like. And if that was poss taken when he arrived has he got worse since there?

 

[PolarSkye]

he's very easy to find given the info.

OP I assume he looks more like the second photo right now, and frankly what a photo to use anyway, that lovely downhill moment of canter!

Appalling picture - and it's tilted to the right so makes him look even more downhill!

OP, it's hard to judge from those two pictures, but from what you've written, alarm bells are sounding for me too.

Good luck with your search.

P

 

[FlyingCircus]

After having a quick look at who's selling him, it seems to be someone who specialises in "tricky horses and sales livery".
Word bargepole comes to mind. Especially given she's a dealer, so knows you'd want to know his name to do background research and still doesn't have it to hand.

Her other horses seem to be ridden to a decent standard and look well, so I'd question why after 2 months with her he isn't doing the same.

 

[Regandal]

Took me ages to find him, ogling at horses! Bertie is rather nice.

 

[ester]

Took me ages to find him, ogling at horses! Bertie is rather nice.

hopeless and clearly easily distracted
Schoolmasters, gelding, 12-14, 2-4k, south east only brings up 2 results

 

[FestiveFuzz]

he's very easy to find given the info.

OP I assume he looks more like the second photo right now, and frankly what a photo to use anyway, that lovely downhill moment of canter!

Yes the second image is terrible. He's actually a little lighter than that pic right now but you get the idea...foolishly I was so caught up in thinking why would you use that image that I failed to notice his condition in the second pic.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Ok quick update...apparently passport photos were sent to my phone on Friday. Have asked them to be emailed to me now so will see what I get sent.

He was apparently started by an eventer and evented up to BE100 before being sold. I have no ambitions beyond 90 so if he's a point and shoot confidence giving jumper that's done a bit of everything I'd be happy.

ETA I rarely buy horses so stupidly assumed T meant telephone 😳