Reality check...

[FlyingCircus]

OP I hope you don't think all the sleuthing etc means we are being extra mean, I think just don't want people to make the wrong decisions/spend more than they should.

If anything, just means I was extra bored :')
3k isn't a lot of money horse-wise...but it is a lot of money. You don't want to waste it on a horse you're having niggles about

If you still want him, express your confusion as to where his record is that they claim he has. That might give you some bargaining power.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Nope don't think you guys have been extra mean at all...I've been on these forums long enough to know what happens when you ask opinions on potential purchases

Budget is ideally £4k but could stretch to £6k if it ticked every box (we're having work done on our house at the moment so trying not to spend all my budget on the new horse). I've been riding 23 years so relatively competent, just not the bravest of riders so was looking for something that inspires confidence. Have been looking at between 8-14yo, 15.3-16.2hh potentially wondered if something eventing novice but needing a step down might be ideal as my only ambitions are to ride elem dressage (maybe medium if I'm lucky) and BE80/90? Must hack alone and ideally in company. Can happily sit the odd spook or buck but don't want anything that naps, rears or bolts. Currently away skiing so OH has banned me from horse hunting, but if you lovely lot see anything you think may be more suitable that would be fab.

 

[ester]

Lol true you are an old timer

 

[AdorableAlice]

Horsequest 146198. advertised as 12 so he is probably 13 this Spring, ono invited, I reckon £5,800 is a reasonable offer for him. He has probably achieved as much as he will at the higher level of showing, would have seen plenty at Hoys and the qualifying venues, so should be sensible.

 

[abb123]

Guys thanks so much! You put Sherlock to shame with your sleuthing skills!

He is indeed called Dudley. Have just received passport pics and his sire is apparently Baron De Chantepie and the dam is Glen Prinsess (not a typo) if either rings any bells for any of you?

Price seems pretty non-negotiable sadly, so it's £3k or walk away at this point.

In this case, if you still want him that is, I would make the offer of £1500 in an email that points out all the reasoning for a reduced offer. State that you will be at the vetting with a lorry to transport him home immediately and that you will pay there and then with cash. If they don't accept that then you are happy to walk away. Its surprising how much people will negotiate on when they see the cash and that you are serious about walking away.

For what it is worth, I think you could find a far nicer horse for £4K that ticked all your boxes and didn't have the same problems. However I do understand that we aren't always the most rational and if he is the one then he is the one!

 

[SusieT]

what proof have you he will event? As currenlty he appears to have no record despite apparantly eventing tat be100 so already not the full truth.. he looks sweet enough, but I would need proof he'd event and to take him to a xc course away from home.
if he did all that easily and passed a vetting, probably a fair enough price

 

[Kezzabell2]

He doesn't sound at all like a school master to me!

that's exactly what I thought

 

[JulesRules]

Hi OP

I would maybe try to arrange the vetting for when you get back from ski trip. That will give you a few days to sleep on things.

Maybe go and look at something else as well which might help you to get things straight in your head.

I'm a softie and I'm inclined to say follow your heart, but on the other hand I would also say trust your instincts if something feels off.

These animals cost us enough and you don't want to buy trouble!

Finally, if you go ahead with the vetting - listen to the vets advise.

Good luck - whatever happens.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Going against the grain here, but I just love his face and really feel sorry for him. He looks so kind, and like he is trying really hard to do what is asked for him.

Never buy a horse based on pity, but if it was my money I would cheeky go £2k and take a punt. Whoops!

Not that I am recommending you ignore the advice here though, all excellent points well made!

 

[Goldenstar]

This horse does not scream schoolmaster to me .
In the photos on the link he's a long long way from a condition score 1 .
A 1 will get you into hot water if a welfare organisation visits .
To me in the photos he's an incorrectly muscled low end 3 .

 

[Hepsibah]

I can't find him...

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Going against the grain here, but I just love his face and really feel sorry for him. He looks so kind, and like he is trying really hard to do what is asked for him.

Never buy a horse based on pity, but if it was my money I would cheeky go £2k and take a punt. Whoops!

Not that I am recommending you ignore the advice here though, all excellent points well made!

See this is where my heart is at. I fell head over heels when I saw his face and having ridden him I just can't get him out of my head.

I've booked his vetting for a weeks time so I can attend, but can't help worry I'm making a terrible mistake.

Given how badly his hips jutted I would be incredibly amazed if he were a poorly muscled 3, but as the owner of a rather chubby cob for the last 3 years I appreciate my opinion may be somewhat skewed. Trainer said he was lacking about 1/3 of muscle in her opinion.

 

[FfionWinnie]

I don't think he's particularly thin just under muscled and yes if you are used to looking at lovely cob bots you aren't going to appreciate that people actually like scrawny hat racks like him lol.

I still wouldn't buy him however as the story doesn't add up.

 

[Regandal]

146419 is lovely. Eventer looking to slow down. May or may not be called Ken! Some cracking horses on there.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

In honesty I think I'm just concerned by his current weight and the fact the passport wasn't to hand when I viewed him which I'd have expected from a sales livery, but it's really hard as he's the first horse I've viewed that has made me feel brave and I'm terrified of walking away and regretting it.

Yes a sales livery should have everything to hand at the viewing. There are a few things that niggle as I read your account but if what you are looking for is a confidence giver at the level he works at and your RI thinks that is what he is, you are the only one who knows how you feel when you ride him. If you like him and he passes the vetting, he is worth the price to you.

 

[JulesRules]

If you like him and your trainer likes him, I would go ahead with the vetting but be prepared to walk away if the vet advises that he isn't up to the job you want him for.


Maybe a bit more research on him in the meantime. If you can pick holes in their story it will give you bargaining power.

 

[FlyingCircus]

If you like him and your trainer likes him, I would go ahead with the vetting but be prepared to walk away if the vet advises that he isn't up to the job you want him for.


Maybe a bit more research on him in the meantime. If you can pick holes in their story it will give you bargaining power.

If in need of any help with more research...give me a shout! :')

 

[FestiveFuzz]

If in need of any help with more research...give me a shout! :')

Oooh yes please! Think OH might kill me if I spend anymore time on HHO instead of skiing

 

[LeannePip]

Just seen a gorgeous, actual schoolmaster on British Dressage Facebook page - immediately thought of you when i saw him and a really good price too.

Beautiful Grey Gelding
£4,500 – Malmsbury, Wiltshire, United Kingdom
16.2 12years. Super smart grey gelding.
22BD points
30 BE points
This horse was professionally produced and evented to 2 star.
He is easy on the bridle has a great mouth.
He is established at medium moments, including shoulder in leg yield half pass and travers.
He has a really smart medium trot all the judges love him and always scores highly.
This horse has so much more to give and is ready to compete.
Change of job forces heart breaking sale. He really has been the ultimate schoolmaster only for sale as at my new job I'm not allowed to keep a horse priced to sell at £4500 must go.
Pm me or call

Nice pictures to back up the add aswell

 

[FlyingCircus]

Oooh yes please! Think OH might kill me if I spend anymore time on HHO instead of skiing

Send me relevant names (previous owners in passport) etc and dates and i'll see what I can find
There's a reason I bought the 3rd horse I went to see...I stalked FAR too many across the internet when I was looking haha.

 

[paddy555]

See this is where my heart is at. I fell head over heels when I saw his face and having ridden him I just can't get him out of my head.

I've booked his vetting for a weeks time so I can attend, but can't help worry I'm making a terrible mistake.

Given how badly his hips jutted I would be incredibly amazed if he were a poorly muscled 3, but as the owner of a rather chubby cob for the last 3 years I appreciate my opinion may be somewhat skewed. Trainer said he was lacking about 1/3 of muscle in her opinion.

horses lack muscles for several reasons but one at this time of the year is shortage of vit E over the winter. There is vit E in grass from about Mar/Apr onwards so when they go out again they pick up. Vit E shortage can be easily rectified. If you were able to look at a pic of him last Sept before going into the winter it would give a better idea. (BTW cushings also cause muscle wastage but I cannot see a pic of him anywhere, I haven't worked out if he is 13 or 17)

As for your first sentence then he could have a verified competition record a mile long, be in theory perfect but if you either didn't like him or more importantly didn't feel totally confident on him he would be useless to you. OTOH if you love him you will be able to forgive his lack of expertise in some areas and build on it together. For me the thing would be do you feel safe on him? All the rosettes in the world are fine but it would be pointless buying something that in a couple of weeks you were posting that he bucked, napped, wouldn't hack alone etc etc

My biggest concern would be that he was doped when you tried him. If bloods are taken at the vetting can you tell the seller they will be taken and tested before buying him in the hope they won't dope him. Then can you ride him at or after the vetting when you may have a chance of seeing the real horse? Just a thought, don't know if that works.

As for the price then he is priceless to you if he is a safe horse you love who can do what you want even if he hasn't got sufficient competition experience. There will be other horses out there in your price range who have everything on paper and in theory are perfect but in practice not every horse likes every rider and you could end up with something technically perfect that you don't really love.
I would wait for the vet to go through him with a fine tooth comb especially to ascertain his age.

 

[Merrymoles]

Hi FF - been lurking for a while as I think this is a real quandary...

If you feel safe on him and he is good for your confidence, I think you are bound to feel that you have "clicked" and that can make it so hard to be rational. I would certainly be playing hard ball on price without more evidence to back up their asking price and would want a full vetting.

However, I am not the best person to judge because I bought a horse three years ago, just because we clicked (and I was able to pay less than the asking price). I still don't feel 100 per cent confident on him and I have had a fair few "oh god, what have I done" moments along the way but he has been massively rewarding in terms of progress. I took my instructor along to all my viewings as I was lacking confidence at the time and really wanted a plod but she kept telling me "you'll be bored in six months" and "you'll know the right one" and she was right, even though I suspect her judgement was based on my riding capability, rather than my confidence levels. There was another we tried, just before the one I bought, who we both refer to as "the one that got away" as, he too, was the right sort and I think we both wish we hadn't let him go, not that I would swap my current horse for him but I think he would have been less challenging on the ground. However, we didn't buy him because I had a niggle...

I'm usually pretty much head over heart but I think buying horses can put that out of kilter. It doesn't matter as long as you are prepared to play fair with the horse you end up with, whether that is in terms of vet bills, behavioural problems, confidence issues etc, but you do need to do it with your eyes open.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

According to his passport he turns 14 next month...not sure where 17 came from, I think it was someone suggesting without the passport he could be any age.

Paddy555 you are completely right...no amount of competition record will matter if the horse doesn't make me feel confident. In Dudley's case he had a couple of silly moments but whereby I'd normally freak on a new horse, with him I just rode him through them which in turn made me feel braver.

You make an interesting point re: cushings. Is this something you can ask them to be tested for during the vetting? I've never bought anything over 10 so never thought to check previously.

I'm seriously kicking myself that I didn't take pics and a video of me riding as it would be so much easier for you guys to offer advice if I could show you how he was at the viewing. I'm also doubting how badly underweight he was. I recall my initial reaction was one of shock at the sight of his hips jutting out but then again my frame of reference for the last 3 years has been a cobby thing that only needs to look at a blade of grass to turn into a furry balloon so perhaps it wasn't quite as extreme as I first thought...more just a shock in comparison to the jumping pic in his ad IYSWIM?

5 stage vetting with bloods is a non-negotiable and something they knew I would be doing before I viewed him. I also have it in writing that he is vice-free and has never reared or bolted.

Price they won't budge on...trust me I've tried!

 

[Annagain]

According to his passport he turns 14 next month...not sure where 17 came from, I think it was someone suggesting without the passport he could be any age.

Paddy555 you are completely right...no amount of competition record will matter if the horse doesn't make me feel confident. In Dudley's case he had a couple of silly moments but whereby I'd normally freak on a new horse, with him I just rode him through them which in turn made me feel braver.

You make an interesting point re: cushings. Is this something you can ask them to be tested for during the vetting? I've never bought anything over 10 so never thought to check previously.

I'm seriously kicking myself that I didn't take pics and a video of me riding as it would be so much easier for you guys to offer advice if I could show you how he was at the viewing. I'm also doubting how badly underweight he was. I recall my initial reaction was one of shock at the sight of his hips jutting out but then again my frame of reference for the last 3 years has been a cobby thing that only needs to look at a blade of grass to turn into a furry balloon so perhaps it wasn't quite as extreme as I first thought...more just a shock in comparison to the jumping pic in his ad IYSWIM?

5 stage vetting with bloods is a non-negotiable and something they knew I would be doing before I viewed him. I also have it in writing that he is vice-free and has never reared or bolted.

Price they won't budge on...trust me I've tried!

I don't know if this is the case with this horse, but some can be an odd shape and if they lose just a little bit of weight can end up with hips jutting out where others will lose a tummy first. My share horse can be like this. He's 5/8 TB, 3/8 Welsh and 1/8 Shire and has really distinct elements of each breed rather than an overall mix.

When he's right in the tummy - i.e. can feel ribs but can't see them - his hips and bottom look quite poor. When his hips and bottom look right, he's usually carrying a bit too much on the tum. We prefer him with a nice bottom so usually have him a little on the round side although at this time of year his tummy's about right and his rear end a little on the light side.

You might find they'll budge when you hit them with the competition record, or lack of it, and prove they've been less than honest about his history. Stick to your guns.

 

[MuddyMonster]

FWIW, I think the 'feel' you get from a horse is worth so much more than is it ideal on paper. My Mum would tells me to imagine how you would feel if he got sold to someone else ... ?

My boy was the wrong breed, wrong height, wrong age and far, far too green with a few silly quirks but there was 'something' about him and despite turning down plenty of far more ideal horses on paper, I couldn't stop thinking about him.

Of course, as soon as the deal was done, I freaked out completely and whilst everyone was telling me how exciting it was - I was becoming more and more convinced I'd lost my sanity.

I've had him a few years now and although it's been tough at times (he didn't get any less quirky ) we've grown together as a partnership and he's given me the confidence to do far more than I ever thought I would. I wouldn't be without him.

 

[MS123]

I think you could find a much nicer horse than this one OP, sorry.

 

[paddy555]

FF, cushings can be tested for by an ACTH test which is a single blood pull. It could be done at a vetting, it is usually sent to Liphook and takes a couple of days to get a results. However, it is not always accurate for horses in the early stages. You would do better to check for cushings by looking for clinical signs. Drinking a lot and peeing a lot, loss of muscle (that is a big one) pot belly, ribby, horse looks fat around the middle but is in fact skinny, lethargy (another big one) coat failing to shed (look at his coat unless he is clipped out) is he mouting at the rate you would expect. Read up the signs on www.thelaminitissite.com and look under PPID (cushings) when you know the signs ask at the vetting that the vet considers cushings.

If you didn't get this horse would you seriously regret it forever? If so then take every precaution possible with vetting etc, if not and you will have forgotten all about him in a month then move on.

I bought a foal just before Christmas. I bought him from a picture on the internet. One picture and we clicked over the net, I never even saw him before buying. 3 months later I am hopelessy in love with him and would never have got over not having him. Do you feel like that? Trust your instinct and intuition.

I don't suppose they would let you have him on trial even if he had to be kept at their place?

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Ok quick update...went to see him again today and got some pics of him. Having seen him again I'd say he's more condition 2 than 1 but definitely lacking muscle. Confo wise he looks a bit out of proportion but can't tell how much of that is down to him being quite scrawny...

He seems really sweet, if a little shy. In honesty I don't think he's really settled where he is...he's moved stables in the week it's been since I last saw him so not sure if any of the horses actually have a set stable or just go wherever is free at the time. He was also pretty dehydrated despite having access to fresh water...something I'll be mentioning to the vet on Thursday.

 

[Fun Times]

Wow FF that is some strange back and hind quarter conformation.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Poor horse.

I feel very sorry for him but I'm afraid I still wouldn't touch him at his price. The fact they're wanting 3k for him is disgusting in his current state.

How much exercise is he getting? His hindquarters are very poor looking.

ETA: He looked LOADS better with his old owner...I really am not sure how he has managed to look considerably worse after being on sales livery.