Really shocked by this picture in horse and hound this week. Is it just me!?

[Elf On A Shelf]

I felt sadder for those poor little poppets in the showing article with their silly red ribbons sticking out the side of their heads, carbon copies of one another and EVERY pony in the main picture being in a Wilkie. Poor children, and poor ponies.

The article that went with the photos though was excellent. Really balanced and interesting.

I HATE LOATHE AND DESPISE WILKIES!!!!! They are gags in all but name and should not be near a kids pony - let alone a lead rein pony! Its a short cut that causes more issues further down the line and unless judges start clamping down on it it will continue! But people willprotest that they are legal because they are a snaffle ...

The lead rein pony that has won HOYS 5x doesn't wear a Wilkie and was only 1 of 3 in the entire lead rein/fr section that didn't have one on!

 

[Patterdale]

When I was in my teens and going hunting back in the late 60's, there was someone who hunted two gorgeous true cobs, a grey and a chestnut. In superb condition, hogged and tails plaited up out of the way. They were fabulous and I am sure were also shown, they were certainly cracking hunters. They have always been my blueprint for what a cob should look like. Haven't seen anything to equal them since mores the pity.

If they were fit enough to hunt they’d probably be well down the line by today’s standards, sadly.

 

[Goldenstar]

Many do but if they survive long enough to win big the producers get good positive advertising and prestige. I hate the way showing does so much damage as the problem of obesity filter down to those starting out an hundreds more suffer. Condition scoring done by a trained operative would help reduce this. I keep seeing posts here and on social media telling people with slim horses that they need feeding up and they look poor. When most look great. The welfare issue with fat horses is as bad as the neglect and skinny horses in fact in some cases worse. Sorry get off my soapbox but it is something I feel strongly about

untill you get into range of horses so emancipated they can hardy more it does them little harm unless they are very young they bounce back on forage vit’s and mins and care .
Every obese horse is damaging its joints and shortening its life .
we need to be as judgmental about the very very fat as we are about the far to slim I would happily buy a thin horse as long as it passed a vetting I would have to very very carefully consider if it was worse the hassle and risk of buying a very very fat one .

 

[Goldenstar]

Grubbing up I almost throw up every time I hear someone use this term .

 

[holeymoley]

Most of them are like that now. All tucked in in front too, never worked a day over its back in its life.

 

[Aoife 2020]

But in March? By June it could be off its feet.

I saw it in the middle of winter

 

[Cinnamontoast]

That is one fat horse ?

 

[Rosemary28]

Frightening ?

 

[Desert_rider]

It is certainly no lightweight is it!

 

[Spotherisk]

It is certainly no lightweight is it!

If my memory is correct a lightweight should have 8.5” of bone, and I can’t see this horse being bigger than that so yes, I would say it is a lightweight cob but not a healthy weight.

 

[meleeka]

Why don’t these obese horses get laminitis? Mine are no where near that fat and still
I struggle ?‍?

I very much doubt most of them ever see a field and grass. They are also probably young so they’ve got all that to look forward to

 

[Gingerwitch]

What is grubbing up ?

 

[Goldenstar]

Grubbing up is the traditional term for taking a young very normal looking young horse stabling it perhaps only part of the time and stuffing it with food to prepare it to show .
The last time someone said it to me was in Ireland and I saw it on Facebook on a page I am on last spring along with some pictures of a lovely but large traditionally bred 3yo
it was lanky and lean just how you want a large three yo to look . I felt awful.

usually if you buy a very horse from Ireland the best attribute they have is they don’t overdo them when young but showing is another world .

 

[windand rain]

Yes it is and have often been told my yearlings etc need more condition. I only show youngsters but try very hard to keep them as naturally as possible. They live out 24/7 and get fluffy I hate them to be hugely overweight so they are fed very carefully enough feed to give them what they need in the way of calcium, vitamins and calories but not enough to mke them fat and hard. They only wear rugs in persistant rain as we have little shelter the only exception is the old girl who for some reason feels the cold.

 

[Jill's Gym Karma]

Might be specific to Thoroughbreds, but I recall reading that a racehorse in peak condition should have a rib or two showing. Does this not apply to other breeds?

 

[windand rain]

It should but no as most horses are not fit enough to have a few ribs showing it is a combination of weight and fitness that gives the tb its unique physique

 

[scats]

People are now so used to seeing overweight horses that they have no idea what a healthy weight looks like, or indeed they see a horse that is a healthy weight and think it’s too thin.

When I was a kid, all the jumping ponies came out of winter showing a little bit of rib. No-one batted an eyelid because it was the norm. Most horses looked a little poor coming out of winter. We could then chuck them out on the summer fields with no concerns, where they lived out happily apart from the hour or two they came in to work or hack. They’d stay in the night before they competed, then be out at whatever show the next day, then chucked back out again. I very rarely remember anything having laminitis. You’d get the odd chunky native on the yard (there weren’t many natives around on our yard then, to be honest, or coloured cobs) who would have a few weeks footiness and be stuck in the box for the first few weeks of summer turnout.
That was rare though.

 

[honetpot]

I was watching a programme which had film of working pit ponies, under ground and on their two week holiday. I was amazed how cobby and well covered they were, despite working shifts, climbing racked stairs and living 50 weeks under ground. Most of which would have been muscle.
You only have to look at old books about showing to realise that most show animals were a lot slimmer, fat was only used to cover poor conformation I was told in 1974, when I was learning, by someone who knew Glenda Spooner and was chairman of a breed society.
The words top line make my heart sink, never heard them to about 10 years ago. If I see one more FB post that says, how to feed for tap line I will....... . Most do not have the understanding that exercise builds and shapes muscle.

 

[Annagain]

Last summer I did a veteran class with Mont. We were pulled in 2nd to a very lovely but very obese cob. The judge told the owner the cob had a weight problem and it was affecting his movement so she really had to try to get his weight down. She then came to us and said it was lovely to see such a free moving horse in perfect condition and she couldn't fault us. While judges still reward obesity (even when they say it's a problem) it'll never go away.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I have stewarded for numerous judges over the years and whilst many make a comment to me on the weight of the animals on front of them not once have they acted on it and dropped the animal let alone told the rider/handler why! So judges are fully aware but they don't want slagged off all over social media. I know I wouldn't! There are few enough judges as it is and scaring off new ones or pushing older ones to quit for standing up for the horses isn't on. Plus most people know if one judge drops them for weight they won't bother doing anything to their horse because the next 5 judges wont care or mention it.

There is a serious obesity problem in Shetland pony showing in Britain. I saw some pics of the big show in Australia and almost every single shetland was well covered but you could see there was muscle there where they were being worked to have topline. I wouldn't call any of them obese let alone to the stage that cob is at! The Aussies have struck the right balance in my eyes.

 

[ihatework]

I have stewarded for numerous judges over the years and whilst many make a comment to me on the weight of the animals on front of them not once have they acted on it and dropped the animal let alone told the rider/handler why! So judges are fully aware but they don't want slagged off all over social media. I know I wouldn't! There are few enough judges as it is and scaring off new ones or pushing older ones to quit for standing up for the horses isn't on. Plus most people know if one judge drops them for weight they won't bother doing anything to their horse because the next 5 judges wont care or mention it.

It’s that and more though.
Showing is quite tight knit and very cliquey - show producers obviously make their living around been seen and doing well at big events, they have their own rides, they produce for clients AND they often judge. They literally can’t easily drop the big names down the line when judging because they will then experience the same to either one of theirs or their clients horses another time.

It’s a self serving industry.

Some I think are completely blind to the fact even these top horses are morbidly obese and tell themselves they are hard, it’s all muscle and top line and believe their own fiction.

Others know exactly the score and actually dislike it, but it’s the way they put food on the table

 

[SpringArising]

I hate showing for this exact reason, and I find Lynn Russell is one of the worst for it.

https://imgur.com/a/Q8EkUvo

 

[tallyho!]

Until judges begin to help protect horses, I will never have any respect for what they do. It's so easy to make excuses, sugar coat and tell people they don't know how it is to judge/get judges etc. Just don't do it unless you can be the horses' voice. It is after all the horse that is being produced and judged, by people who should know better. If that means judging the producers by proxy then that's the way to get the message across. I know how snipey and bitchy the horseworld is but there are a few people standing for horse welfare and it is growing. Judges are more likely to be better respected as a result of being good stewards of horse welfare in the long run. The whole "show condition" is being perpetuated by the very people producing and judging - shame on you. Yes I've been shot down for calling a show horse fat and told it is fit - whatever. There are judges out there standing up for horses and god bless you - keep fighting.

 

[ycbm]

So is the answer an independent condition score by an ACPAT physio or a vet before the horse is allowed to enter the ring? No entry if you are more than 3,5/5

That would seem to be a pretty easy solution?

.

 

[canteron]

Consumer power tarnished Lynn Russell (although she was too arrogant to admit anything - do you think she has the same PR team as Prince Andrew??) maybe while most of us have a little more time we could persuade a few more producers to be more aware of who they sponsor?

 

[marmalade88]

Might be specific to Thoroughbreds, but I recall reading that a racehorse in peak condition should have a rib or two showing. Does this not apply to other breeds?

yes, my TB has a good covering ad you can just see a ripple of rib. He’s in perfect condition for the end of winter and expect him to put on a little as the spring grass comes through. Mind you it’s very hard to get a TB fat, even on 3lb of oats a day and lots of forage he only just held his weight through winter while in work.
most horses should look like that , you shouldnt be able to see ribs but run your hands over their sides and feel them clearly.

Sadly it’s not just fat show horses, the number of leisure horses and children's ponies who are grossly obese is on the rise. There was an article in this months Horse and Rider magazine around the language vets use to communicate with clients. I can’t link it as it’s not on the website yet. But vets are struggling to commutator as well and I don’t think people listen, my observation would be those people also have fat dogs where they own one!

 

[Julia0803]

It’s that and more though.
Showing is quite tight knit and very cliquey - show producers obviously make their living around been seen and doing well at big events, they have their own rides, they produce for clients AND they often judge. They literally can’t easily drop the big names down the line when judging because they will then experience the same to either one of theirs or their clients horses another time.

It’s a self serving industry.

Some I think are completely blind to the fact even these top horses are morbidly obese and tell themselves they are hard, it’s all muscle and top line and believe their own fiction.

Others know exactly the score and actually dislike it, but it’s the way they put food on the table

On a similar note, I dipped my toe into dog showing about ten years ago.

i remember discussing with a few others about a breed society organized judging seminar/education day.

They mixed up handlers and dogs. There were some big names and dogs that had their full show champion certificates as well as dogs that hadn’t won much at all and had owners who were not ‘big names’ as it were.

When they mixed them all up so they were handling someone else’s dog the results were very interesting and did not fall into line with how you would have expected them to place.

I think it’s not just horses where showing is judged a lot on the face at the end of the lead/on board.

 

[Goldenstar]

I hate showing for this exact reason, and I find Lynn Russell is one of the worst for it.

https://imgur.com/a/Q8EkUvo

This is just the most beautiful stamp of an ID .
that his life ended early because he was fed to much so he could look like that to win a prize is just the most heartbreaking thing .
He was the most wonderful individual

 

[Goldenstar]

Ribs are the holy grail of the owners of adult Irish draughts

 

[SpringArising]

This is just the most beautiful stamp of an ID .
that his life ended early because he was fed to much so he could look like that to win a prize is just the most heartbreaking thing .
He was the most wonderful individual

Yep. Imagine how much more beautiful he would have been at a correct weight. How anyone thinks that looks good is beyond me. It's like the weird Halter Horse showing in the US.