Rescue Roulette: Dogs from Abroad

Lady Jane said:
I won't try to reply, @paddy has explained very clearly how things work. I'm not sure how rescues can make people do more research which clearly in many cases they is what they should have done. I see cases where people lied on their application and then couldn't cope and returned dogs to the rescue after only a few days.

I adopted a rescue from Greece in August for reasons I have explained much earlier in this thread. I do not have the experience to adopt 'unseen' (I wouldn't buy a horse unseen either), but was fortunate to be able to meet my dog in Greece (this was planned, not spur of the moment). I knew she was a nervous dog and expected this when she arrived. I was concerned she would arrived filthy, she wasn't, but the first thing we did was take her in the garden (on the lead) and there was lots of toiletting. Yes she would have sat curled up and not gone out to start with, but we put her lead on, toilet in garden back in to her safe place. She had read the book on 3/3/3 guidance! By day 4 we took her for a short walk round the next door field and she has gradually improved day on day. We are not at 3 months yet but she is very confident in the house and on walks, she has sat in the pub when it was quiet while we had a drink and is super intelligent, learning fast, keen to please and is a pleasure to have around.

What we haven't totally overcome - fear of strangers particularly men - but if everyone would follow the no touch/look/speak guidance she would be fine with most people once she has had a good sniff.
We haven't let her off the lead yet in public, she is a hound through and through and gets her nose down on goes deaf. If you can get her attention, her recall is great. So we will work on this until its safe to let her loose in public. We have a 30m long line and she can really let off steam in our field.

Would I adopt from abroad again, absolutely if I couldn't find a suitable dog in the UK.
With my new found knowledge what would I do differently:
1. Check the rescue tests for BC through the APHA prior to travel
2. Ensure the dog was delivered to my door and not a meet / collect in a car park
3. Ensure I had UK rescue backup from someone in the UK
4. Be able to ask endless questions about the dog from people who actually know her (not the UK contact who may only have the information they have been given)

I was lucky, the rescue I used did all these things but I now understand more about what can go wrong. The one thing I'm not certain of was they tested via the APHA but she had had 2 tests in Greece due to the length of time she was in rescue

Sorry, I didn't mean to write an essay but I will conclude:
If you are able to find a dog in a UK rescue who will suit you, fantastic.
If you can't (I couldn't) consider rescuing from abroad
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Can you remember how the toilet/rest stops are regulated? 62 dogs in three vans means two (?) people toileting around 20 dogs on leash.
 
I feel sorry for the people who aren't aware of the risks and whose dogs go on to develop Leishmaniasis years down the line, having tested negative at the time of adoption.
 
skinnydipper said:
I feel sorry for the people who aren't aware of the risks and whose dogs go on to develop Leishmaniasis years down the line, having tested negative at the time of adoption.
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You could adopt a dog in the UK and it could still end up with some other awful, life threatening disease down the line, just like you could take an oversees rescue and it could go on to live a long, healthy life - that's just life.
 
Indy said:
You could adopt a dog in the UK and it could still end up with some other awful, life threatening disease down the line, just like you could take an oversees rescue and it could go on to live a long, healthy life - that's just life.
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But there are plenty of dogs here that need rehoming, and at least with a UK origin dog you are not risking bringing in diseases not generally seen in the UK. Disease biosecurity is not just something invented by bureaucrats to annoy people, it's a real concern, which some countries are really hot on (e.g. Aus and NZ), because they have seen the damage that can be done not just to domestic pet populations, but also to wildlife when you accidentally get stuff that can hop across species.

I still fail to see the need to import a dog in this extremely uncontrolled way when there are plenty rehomes here, whether or not you (one) meets the charity rehome tickboxes or not.
 
Lady Jane said:
I won't try to reply, @paddy has explained very clearly how things work. I'm not sure how rescues can make people do more research which clearly in many cases they is what they should have done. I see cases where people lied on their application and then couldn't cope and returned dogs to the rescue after only a few days.
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people lie on their applications be it UK or overseas. They lie on home visits.
Lady Jane said:
I adopted a rescue from Greece in August for reasons I have explained much earlier in this thread. I do not have the experience to adopt 'unseen' (I wouldn't buy a horse unseen either), but was fortunate to be able to meet my dog in Greece (this was planned, not spur of the moment). I knew she was a nervous dog and expected this when she arrived. I was concerned she would arrived filthy, she wasn't, but the first thing we did was take her in the garden (on the lead) and there was lots of toiletting. Yes she would have sat curled up and not gone out to start with, but we put her lead on, toilet in garden back in to her safe place. She had read the book on 3/3/3 guidance! By day 4 we took her for a short walk round the next door field and she has gradually improved day on day. We are not at 3 months yet but she is very confident in the house and on walks, she has sat in the pub when it was quiet while we had a drink and is super intelligent, learning fast, keen to please and is a pleasure to have around.
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3/3/3 guidance for us as well.

no doubt they will have various problems in the next few days as they settle in. I do realise that UK shelter rescues don't have ANY problems at all. They are instantly perfect, and as for dogs people get off Preloved and the like well, above perfection there. :D:D UK rescue and preloved dogs of course have perfect health guaranteed for life.

be realistic folks. Rescue dogs anywhere, even the UK have problems. They are often in the rescue (UK) because they have eaten the child, the dog, the furry, run off, have no recall, the new baby, bit the postman or any number of reasons. Some simply because of divorce, even those are going to be very unsettled and will need a lot of time to adjust to their loss

are dogs who are unrealistic to rehome kept in UK shelters or PTS. From some of the threads on here it seem that dogs that have attacked, are certain breeds etc etc etc are kept alive, have behaviour training, most likely still have their problem and have a VERY limited number of adopters who could deal with them. So people lie to get them and round the circle goes again.


would I adopt from Romania again ( I have no intention of having any more UK or foreign) but in theory if I did I would have no hesitation in doing so again. There are some of the Romanian dog breeds that I really like the look of and haven't seen those in UK shelters.
 
DabDab said:
But there are plenty of dogs here that need rehoming, and at least with a UK origin dog you are not risking bringing in diseases not generally seen in the UK. Disease biosecurity is not just something invented by bureaucrats to annoy people, it's a real concern, which some countries are really hot on (e.g. Aus and NZ), because they have seen the damage that can be done not just to domestic pet populations, but also to wildlife when you accidentally get stuff that can hop across species.

I still fail to see the need to import a dog in this extremely uncontrolled way when there are plenty rehomes here, whether or not you (one) meets the charity rehome tickboxes or not.
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I completely agree with you and rehoming a dog from abroad isn't a road I'd go down, I mean, I got Bandit from the dreaded Pets4 homes.
 
DabDab said:
Why? I can't imagine a circumstance where the only thing likely to save a dog is transportation to the UK. It might be life or death if the dog doesn't receive vet treatment, or life or death if it doesn't find a home (because otherwise someone will make the decision to PTS), but life or death specifically because it doesn't come to the UK??

Tbh, with every post Paddy writes I am more convinced of the saviour complex knocking around in this "Rommie" community
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re your 2nd you may be correct. However why on earth would anyone adopt a dog from a UK rescue rather than go out and buy a perfect little puppy or even older dog. Maybe they want to give a rescue dog a chance? Perhaps we are again back to the saviour complex you mention whatever rescue they come from. :)
 
I have a rescue dog, originally from Georgia but was fostered in Holland by the breed rescue. I've posted about her on here before. She was tested clear of BC and had another test when we got her as our vets also wanted to double check, plus she was recently tested clear for Leish. She has a passport signed by vets in Georgia, in Holland and before her ferry crossing with all her up to date vaccination and travel details. She came across with two other dogs who were being homed in the UK.
We weren't originally looking for another dog but we spotted an advert and just saw her sad little face. I probably wouldn't have got her until the rescue stated that she was excellent with cats. Our Setter is good with our cat but as she is young and just wants to play with him all the time he was not happy about it so bringing her a friend who is good with cats sounded like a good idea. As it was something I had to be certain about, I called the rescue to talk about how cat (and dog) friendly she was and I received many videos of her chilling and calmly playing with the other resident fosters and their 5 cats! She was in a large house in Holland for a few months before she was put up for adoption to allow her personality to be judged. We did a video walkthrough of our house that showed our garden with dog-proof fencing and filled in an extensive application form. They also have UK fosterers so we also have the back-up help from them if we needed it.

She has been here nearly a year and initially whilst quite anxious she is the most loving dog, and is exactly how the rescue described her. First thing she did when she got here was initiate play with Clover. She was found living on the streets of Georgia but you wouldn't know it, she is just so lovely and so easy to train. She is now allowed off lead and has a better re-call than the dog we've had since a puppy. She's great with children, adults, doesn't steal food or counter surf and over the last few months her playful personality has really begun to shine.
She also fit the 3/3/3 rule! She has a home for life with us. Getting her was not about a saviour complex, it was about finding a dog that was the right fit. Many dogs in rescue here are not cat tested and that would be a problem for us, and I didn't want another puppy at this point.

I have bought pets (ragdoll cat and English Setter) that I have researched the breeds and waited for months/years to get, going to breed shows and networking with breeders plus I have also had rescue pets so I am not at all biased to one or the other, regardless of which country they have come from. It is not about self-gratification at all from me and I am sad that this is what people think. In my eyes I am just helping an animal in need. From the UK I have rescued a 19 year old cat that I had for 18 months and I have rescued a 12 year old Lab who I only ended up having for 6 weeks as he was (unknowingly) ill so I am happy to take on any pet as long as they are suitable for our home. I donate to rescues (here and abroad), including organising donating vast quantities of left-over food from my job to a number of charities, and I fundraise too so I am not purposefully picking one type of rescue over another.
Everywhere is brimming with animals that need homes and I would take them all if I could! I think there's good rescues out there and I don't think anyone should be vilified if that is the route they wanted to take. It just needs some research on knowing how to spot a good rescue and I do think that this testing will only help that case.

Edit - no idea what's happened to the font size!
 
paddy555 said:
re your 2nd you may be correct. However why on earth would anyone adopt a dog from a UK rescue rather than go out and buy a perfect little puppy or even older dog. Maybe they want to give a rescue dog a chance? Perhaps we are again back to the saviour complex you mention whatever rescue they come from. :)
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Yep, plenty of saviour complex knocking around UK rescues too. But at least they aren't fuelling largely uncontrolled imports to satisfy it.
There's also lots of people who just quietly rehome dogs because the dog needs a home and they believe they can provide it and will enjoy having them. No Facebook or WhatsApp groups where seasoned rehomers tell them to ignore the negativity and warnings, no tracker app, no cute little nickname for the dogs as a collective....
 
DabDab said:
But there are plenty of dogs here that need rehoming, and at least with a UK origin dog you are not risking bringing in diseases not generally seen in the UK. Disease biosecurity is not just something invented by bureaucrats to annoy people, it's a real concern, which some countries are really hot on (e.g. Aus and NZ), because they have seen the damage that can be done not just to domestic pet populations, but also to wildlife when you accidentally get stuff that can hop across species.

I still fail to see the need to import a dog in this extremely uncontrolled way when there are plenty rehomes here, whether or not you (one) meets the charity rehome tickboxes or not.
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I have found nothing about the last 2 months uncontrolled. OH did remark it would have been easier to adopt a child.
To get a Rommie rescue now it needs an APHA cert. It seems difficult to see how that could be forged. (it is all done electronically by APHA and the electronic cert has to be sent off a few days before the travel date so the authorities cqn check it. ) the new owner gets a paper copy for their vet.

is that sufficient. Yes for those Rommies brought in by charities because charities are mainly the ones it applies to.
is that sufficient full stop then no doubt everyone has their own opinion.

If we are stopping BC then I cannot see the point of APHA for Rommie rescues. Totally pointless. Dogs from other foreign rescues from all over Eastern Europe or anywhere else can come in without BC testing.

The rules only apply to Romanian rescue dogs and commercial ones ie dogs imported for sale or rehoming.

You can bring your pet Rommie in with you no testing. (on a pet passport) You are restricted to travellling with more than 5 dogs unless going to shows, competitions or training events. Are those untested dogs bringing BC in? You can take your UK dog on your hols around Europe. The UK (and I think the US) are the only countries that test for BC. So your pet dog can be bringing BC home with it, completely untested.

If we wanted to tighten things up to prevent BC then we would insist all foreign rescues were APHA tested negative. Those Rommies who now test positive cannot come to the UK. I don' think a 2nd test is allowed although I think this is being queried with DEFRA.

We would also insist that all competition/show type dogs were tested negative before the events they come over for.

We would also insist that UK dogs who had been on their hols to suspect countries which appear to be a lot are tested APHA negative. Why not? they are able to import the disease. Of course APHA positive dogs cannot come into the UK so pehaps a problem there. :D:D we want our own BC positive to come back with us after his hols.

I totally agree about foreign uncontrolled BC. Why the rules only apply to Rommie rescues I have no idea, to my mind it seems pretty lax by DEFRA. Why haven't they done something about this before then no idea, again sems pretty lax if it is so serious. From some of the APHA testing I have seen since 7/10 (Rommies) there are a high percentage of negatives.

I suspect that there are no overall govt figures available ATM as to the extent of any BC UK problem. In a few months time APHA should have some figures (the test request form states the country and vet requesting the test) I expect some of the rescues will request details under FOI.
It will be interesting to see that info. to see the exact extent of the situation.


ester said:
One ‘rescue’s’ Been charged recently with selling without a licence I think?
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can you supply details of that please ie the rescue name, circumstances if you have those details and details of their charges, brought by whom and the penalties.

DabDab said:
Yep, plenty of saviour complex knocking around UK rescues too. But at least they aren't fuelling largely uncontrolled imports to satisfy it.
There's also lots of people who just quietly rehome dogs because the dog needs a home and they believe they can provide it and will enjoy having them. No Facebook or WhatsApp groups where seasoned rehomers tell them to ignore the negativity and warnings, no tracker app, no cute little nickname for the dogs as a collective....
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I very mistakenly as I was just curious looked at the Dogs trust site and adds for dogs.

Now I just want to scream at them "stop" please stop sending me continual adverts about dogs you think I might want. I don't. I cannot seem to block them or get rid of them.
 
DabDab said:
But there are plenty of dogs here that need rehoming, and at least with a UK origin dog you are not risking bringing in diseases not generally seen in the UK. Disease biosecurity is not just something invented by bureaucrats to annoy people, it's a real concern, which some countries are really hot on (e.g. Aus and NZ), because they have seen the damage that can be done not just to domestic pet populations, but also to wildlife when you accidentally get stuff that can hop across species.

I still fail to see the need to import a dog in this extremely uncontrolled way when there are plenty rehomes here, whether or not you (one) meets the charity rehome tickboxes or not.
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The trouble is, as had been expressed here several times, it's actually really difficult to adopt a dog here in the UK. That's what drives so many to look overseas.
 
I’ve not read every single comment, but did read through quite a few.

Whilst it’s not something I’ve ever done or probably would do I do know quite a lot of foreign rescues.
They are all, without question really lovely, some slightly odd looking ones but all have been very nice and problem free characters. I’ve always thought that quite odd considering their back ground.

I did know (personally, this isn’t rumour) of one poor dog though that came over and was due to arrive at a foster home in the UK. So it travelled however long and was then taken accidentally to Scotland instead of being dropped off in Gloucestershire, they did give her a rest (unsure how/where) and drove her all the way back the following morning so that poor dog did days, literally days in the back of a van and I have no doubt from trying to take her out for a wee myself from the foster home that they probably didn’t bother. It took ages to get a harness on the poor thing was utterly terrified. It was really sad to see.
 
Amymay Again said:
Where do you want to re-home from?
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I'm guessing she means rehoming from sites like Pets4homes. Like I say I got Bandit off Pets4homes from two girls who were lovely and adored Bandit but just had no idea on how to deal with a 7 months old Kelpie X. He was a steep learning curve for us! I always say we just saved the various rehoming charities a job.
 
I am not a dog person but I was kind of wondering how it's so easy to import. By being a rescue have they in effect no value and therefore does not cost anything to import, hence money not being g a deterrent. Also what kind of checks are done on rescue imports? I presume they need vaccines, border health checks etc? I have no idea hence asking.
 
We've rehomed loads of dogs, mostly from breeders and/or friends. It doesn't necessarily have to be from a 'rescue' organisation, pound or website.
'Rescue' now covers a wide range of dogs, some who were in no need of 'rescue', but have simply been moved from one home to another or who have spent some time in kennels or foster. It doesn't mean they were subject to any cruelty/ill-treatment or major trauma.
I know people who have bought and paid for their dogs from relatively reputable breeders or vendors, but 'consider them rescued' because they didn't like their kennel set up or collected them halfway, in a car park.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Although I do have someone at the moment who bought a cross of two high drive breeds off a free ad site (and calls it a rescue) and has now got sadface when told it might not end up being genetically/mentally suitable for what they want to do with it.
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Just to return to this, I have done enough digging now to establish that this dog was in fact bought from a breeder, parentage is very much known, was tagged in social media posts by the breeder, but said person has lied to my face several times when given the opportunity to tell me where it came from, repeating the claim that they bought it off a free ad site. Making progress, but will never have the best temperament in the world.
Is it for clout, maybe? Look what I have managed to achieve with this Rescue Dog! Or an excuse? We have all these issues because it is a Rescue Dog.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Just to return to this, I have done enough digging now to establish that this dog was in fact bought from a breeder, parentage is very much known, was tagged in social media posts by the breeder, but said person has lied to my face several times when given the opportunity to tell me where it came from, repeating the claim that they bought it off a free ad site. Making progress, but will never have the best temperament in the world.
Is it for clout, maybe? Look what I have managed to achieve with this Rescue Dog! Or an excuse? We have all these issues because it is a Rescue Dog.
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Bit of both probably - part fear of failure and plausible excuse for if that happens, part stacking up for extra kudos if it does all come good.
 
mariew said:
I am not a dog person but I was kind of wondering how it's so easy to import. By being a rescue have they in effect no value and therefore does not cost anything to import, hence money not being g a deterrent. Also what kind of checks are done on rescue imports? I presume they need vaccines, border health checks etc? I have no idea hence asking.
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if you read back through my posts it will give you some idea as to t he tests etc for Romania. It took me 2 months.

costs to my rescue have been (per dog and this is leaving out anything they pay to Romanian foster homes, shelters or anywhere else that the dog has to stay before import, the cost of it's food, bedding and any additional day to day care costs. . )

in euros
ACTH first test 154
ACTH 2nd test 154
Idex 56
Giardia 20
Leish 25
Brucella 25
distemper 20 transportation to the Romanian vet 60

those are exact costs taken from the vets invoices

estimates below are in pounds


transport to UK around £200 plus and then the cost of transporting to the transport collection point.
cost of micro chip around £25
cost of passport around £50 (vet input will be required)
rabies vaccine no idea of cost
tapeworm treatments around £15

I'm sure there are other items that I have missed off the top of my head. I'm sure someone will take great pleasure in reminding me.

the amount of work is incredible sorting everything. The amount of time volunteers put in amazing.

The dogs were checked in Calais by I assume border control/customs, then they crossed the Channel and then they were checked again by what I assume was Defra for BC ie APHA check.

Many will go to UK fosters, one lady on our trip was on her 26th foster. The rescues will have to pay the foster costs which will be food etc and any vet treatment if it is needed.
 
DabDab said:
Bit of both probably - part fear of failure and plausible excuse for if that happens, part stacking up for extra kudos if it does all come good.
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I thought every dog nowadays was a rescue dog. Everytime I meet a dog the owner tells me it is a rescue, none of them are foreign imports. Admittedly those with behaviour problems like to tell me several times it is a rescue. :D:D:D:D
 
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