Resilience

I suspect your yard does mean that they are used to rehabbing so probably don't understand why someone might struggle with that/not want to carry on doing it/don't want to problem solve every issues. Whereas if you were at a yard which also had a retirement field they might well be suggesting that instead.

I have very little resilience, though knowing that does at least mean I can predict my over reaction to things. Historically despite not having horses themselves most counsellors have understood what a big thing they are in my life, and they are the only people professionally I would expect to provide the sort of support you are talking about.
 
I sympathize with you OP I really do and it's so difficult to deal with an unwell animal. However as others have said it's just not possible for vets/ yard owners to prop people up who have problems, yes they should be aware that it's a difficult situation for you but I really cannot see anyone can expect more than the service they pay for . In the last 3 years I have lost 2 horses one expected ,one not and retired the best hunter I've ever had at the age of 12. It's tough ,very tough I'm at home on my own with my horses and it isn't easier than being in a yard, I've sat up endless nights with horses debating with myself whether to get the vet, endless days running up & down to the fields trying to get my horse , that the vet initially couldn't find anything wrong with to eat, eventually sat at a clinic on my own at night being told pts or surgery which probably wouldn't be successful is the only option . Having to drive home with an empty trailer, it's all heart breaking and destroying but it's not up to other people to prop me up, I have to find that inner strength to keep going because to me rightly or wrongly that's what you have to do x
 
Interestingly recent conversations with vets (who are mostly new so didn't really know the horses/us) have emphasised (with the oldie) that if in doubt talk to them, don't feel worried to speak to them about PTS etc as they feel like people don't want to bring it up as they think the vet will only want to fix whatever the issue is.
 
milliepops said:
the thing is, those decisions and reactions are all so very personal and can be tied up with other things, like people's personal or financial circumstances, what is happening elsewhere in their life (work, family etc). I think it would be nigh on impossible to do anything formal because each of our needs are so different.
:/
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I think it is too easy to forget other people have problems. Three members of YO's family died during first lockdown. He couldn't be there when they were dying and couldn't be at their funerals. To expect emotional support from him because of an ill horse would have been ludicrously insensitive.
 
palo1 said:
For individuals of course, many people do have really hard times and there are people who can and do develop tremendous resilience but it is something that has to be 'learned' in a way; we are pretty much nurtured from cradle to grave and largely feel we have control over our lives - that is no way to develop resilience though. It is easy to become paralysed by the multitude of possible decisions and we are not taught how to be decisive either!!
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was thinking about this in relation to a few other threads recently. I am not sure where the boundary between stubbornness and resilience is, i have got through some crap situations through stubbornness more than anything i think but ended up with resilience i think :p
Have teetered on the edge of not coping with stuff recently and when i find myself saying "I can't" i have stubbornly changed that to "I can" and then something changes internally and off I go again o_O I think you are right though, it's learned/practiced, and it helps ME to recognise when i've exercised that ability so i know it's still there iyswim.

Though being able to be resilient does not mean that you have to choose to be. A person might be able to cope with e.g. a lengthy rehab process with no clear outcome... but they may still choose not to put themselves through it. Both are valid choices.
 
milliepops said:
was thinking about this in relation to a few other threads recently. I am not sure where the boundary between stubbornness and resilience is, i have got through some crap situations through stubbornness more than anything i think but ended up with resilience i think :p
Have teetered on the edge of not coping with stuff recently and when i find myself saying "I can't" i have stubbornly changed that to "I can" and then something changes internally and off I go again o_O I think you are right though, it's learned/practiced, and it helps ME to recognise when i've exercised that ability so i know it's still there iyswim.

Though being able to be resilient does not mean that you have to choose to be. A person might be able to cope with e.g. a lengthy rehab process with no clear outcome... but they may still choose not to put themselves through it. Both are valid choices.
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Yes, absolutely. In fact making a choice is both exercising and developing resilience as you are taking ownership over a situation. Maybe stubborness does breed resilience too though I personally think that it is resilience that gives us the ability to KBO when that seems unfeasible/unreasonable! Resilience isn't always either about things looking great; sometimes resilience is all about having a blooming good weep and wail but knowing that once that is done that you will stand up again and get on with whatever has to be done/you have decided to do. The basis of resiliance comes from a degree of self belief and that can be very hard to find in a veterinary situation though I have found it helpful to be able to ask clear questions and accept that whilst I may never have the full veterinary knowledge I am doing my best to understand and that I have my own 'lines in the sand' about quality of life or expenditure. Knowing those boundaries can be really reassuring though it doesn't always take the sadness out of dealing with difficult stuff.


ETA - this thread has really made me think!! Last night I had a bit of a meltdown and wept at my OH and son about various horse related things - honestly, the things I said were quite dramatic because I was feeling at a totally low ebb for a reason I am not entirely clear about. It would never occur to me to think that because I was crying that I was not resilient though. I was working through some really emotional stuff and trying to make difficult decisions (no horse's lives implicated though!) and tears were part of that process. As it happens, both OH and son are made of stern stuff and were very comforting but able to say to me that things WOULD look different in the morning (which they did) and that I had a choice - ''either crack on or don't!!'' Put in such stark terms, I found that approach really helpful and bracing as I was getting really wattled up in the detail and minutiae rather than the big picture stuff. That isn't a response that would work for everyone obviously but my personal resilience sort of thrives on clarity and the big picture so the 'crack on or don't' response helped me. Emotions can be really difficult to deal with but resilience in part is about accepting the difficult, dark emotions and recognising them as not a permanent state. Things will change and it is important to know that and then choose to be positive about that.
 
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I can relate OP, i rehabbed my horse through stifle issues and then lost him to something else. When you are in the middle of it it can feel hideous. it taught me a big lesson about what i would do in the future with horses and treatment. I had my horse pts earlier than I could have done partly because I didn’t want to put myself through anymore stress
waiting for him to deteriorate-my vet thankfully was fully supportive. the horse I got to replace him became an unrideable and that taught me a lot about expectations that horses often have to carry which they should not.

Being around and working with horses for a long time means I am confident in my decisions to say yes or no but not all have that experience. I am the same with the dogs and luckily OH supports me in all of those decisions. As above, red lines help-I have quality of life ones and financial ones wrt vet treatment.

as someone who’s worked as a VN for several years I’d not worry about crying, they see it all the time and from all types of people. I also don’t see crying as a weakness, I can cry but still do the right thing-it doesn’t change my resolve, just shows how I feel about it. sometimes I think we bottle stuff up-I have a good cry and move on.

there’s no shame in retiring a horse or having a horse PTS if you’re at the end of the road emotionally or financially.
 
milliepops said:
was thinking about this in relation to a few other threads recently. I am not sure where the boundary between stubbornness and resilience is, i have got through some crap situations through stubbornness more than anything i think but ended up with resilience i think :p
Have teetered on the edge of not coping with stuff recently and when i find myself saying "I can't" i have stubbornly changed that to "I can" and then something changes internally and off I go again o_O I think you are right though, it's learned/practiced, and it helps ME to recognise when i've exercised that ability so i know it's still there iyswim.

Though being able to be resilient does not mean that you have to choose to be. A person might be able to cope with e.g. a lengthy rehab process with no clear outcome... but they may still choose not to put themselves through it. Both are valid choices.
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Totally agree with this, I am stubborn, and in my life my stubbornness has generally served me well, and I think it has helped me develop resilience, I have certainly come extremely close to just giving up several times, and each time at the last possible second my stubbornness kicks in, and makes me keep going, and I suppose this knowledge of myself in itself helps create resilience.
 
What I expect/need from professionals (other than counsellors) is their knowledge and expertise, not to be offered a hanky and a shoulder to cry on

A while ago I consulted a solicitor about some domestic stuff I had going on.
They were brisk and to the point, and I almost felt affronted that they weren't more sympathetic.
But then I thought, I'm paying for legal advice, not sympathy
They told me what I needed to know of the law and if I wanted any other support it was up to me to look for that elsewhere, not for them to provide a complete care package
 
SO1 said:
Maybe you have to be quite cold hearted to be in equine business otherwise it would just be too depressing. Horse owners get emotional but if you work with horses and see them as a commodity then it doesn't feel that way. I suppose a lot of vets are not horse owners so they don't understand perhaps what it is like.

But perhaps from business perspective a little empathy and support might get more customers.

I do think with normal counsellors they don't understand what it is like so might be hard for them to offer advice.

I think I wish I was bit more prepared for this before I got a horse. I had ponies as a child but they got outgrown and sold. I then shared and rode at riding schools until 35 so this is my first full journey with a horse. I had no idea of all the things that could go wrong and thought most horses if they didn't have an accident would just get old stiff and eventually have to PTS when they struggle to get up which is what happened to my sisters old pony who went on loan.

I expect it is not part of any horse ownership course.

I don't think I will have another horse I don't have the right temperament too emotional and find it difficult to make decisions.
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Resilience is not something that can be taught in a 'course'. It is something that comes as part of our experiences growing up and dealing with life. If your family is resilient, it is most likely that you will have resilience, if your parents fret and worry over things, rather than being resilient, it is most likely that you will learn the same behaviours and deal with adversity in the same ways that your parents did.
Even if your family does not have resilience, it is possible to consciously determine to deal with adversity in a resilient manner, not 'replaying' everything in your mind, over and over again but instead diverting your thoughts to more positive things and generally behaving like a resilient person (fake it 'til you make it).
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Resilience is not something that can be taught in a 'course'. It is something that comes as part of our experiences growing up and dealing with life. If your family is resilient, it is most likely that you will have resilience, if your parents fret and worry over things, rather than being resilient, it is most likely that you will learn the same behaviours and deal with adversity in the same ways that your parents did.
Even if your family does not have resilience, it is possible to consciously determine to deal with adversity in a resilient manner, not 'replaying' everything in your mind, over and over again but instead diverting your thoughts to more positive things and generally behaving like a resilient person (fake it 'til you make it).
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I so agree with this and, I know it sounds harsh to say it when you are going through difficult times, but there isn't always someone, or something or an organisation or a course that can make things better. Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and find your own way through. The paradox of this is that the experience better qualifies you for the next upset in life far better than any 3rd party can do. They can only give you options and opinions - which can help if you trust them - but ultimately the buck stops with you.
 
This might come across really heartless, but it is how I never get done in by prolonged spells of crummy luck and or bad mistakes.

Separate the dreams for this current horse and the dreams for yourself. It's hard, and whatever the dream is that is slipping further and further away and is hard to even remember when all you want is for your horse to be well, it might have had your current horse in the fantasy but it can evolve to another horse.

Don't forget that that one great test/ round/ gallop/ hack whatever that you had God knows how long ago and you've wanted to feel again ever since, you will. It might not be with this current horse, but you will. Keep investing in yourself, and in whatever partnership you've got as long as there's hope. If you arrive at a point where hope is beyond the current horse, do right by it and keep working on and waiting for the dream for yourself. It'll happen, you don't need that much resilience, it's really patience that you need and not to pin all your hopes on one horse.
 
irishdraft said:
I sympathize with you OP I really do and it's so difficult to deal with an unwell animal. However as others have said it's just not possible for vets/ yard owners to prop people up who have problems, yes they should be aware that it's a difficult situation for you but I really cannot see anyone can expect more than the service they pay for . In the last 3 years I have lost 2 horses one expected ,one not and retired the best hunter I've ever had at the age of 12. It's tough ,very tough I'm at home on my own with my horses and it isn't easier than being in a yard, I've sat up endless nights with horses debating with myself whether to get the vet, endless days running up & down to the fields trying to get my horse , that the vet initially couldn't find anything wrong with to eat, eventually sat at a clinic on my own at night being told pts or surgery which probably wouldn't be successful is the only option . Having to drive home with an empty trailer, it's all heart breaking and destroying but it's not up to other people to prop me up, I have to find that inner strength to keep going because to me rightly or wrongly that's what you have to do x
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I could relate a lot to your post. I have my own place and like you have to make the decisions however I am lucky in that I have a horsey OH to both sit with ill horses and to offer suggestions when we have to make the decision.

You sound to be one tough lady.I found your post inspiring. :):)
 
cauda equina said:
What I expect/need from professionals (other than counsellors) is their knowledge and expertise, not to be offered a hanky and a shoulder to cry on
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Everyone is so different in how they process things, but sympathy and 'emotional support' from a vet would horrify me. Its the last thing I would want. When I had the pony PTS I used the farm vet (who'd never met him before) rather than the equine vet partly to avoid any likelihood of them being overly sympathetic.
 
I think resilience can be 'taught' in fact although it is easier if it is instilled through family/upbringing where setbacks and our response to them are modelled. The way in which we respond to events is quite complex and it can be changed if we want to do that. The kind of fatalistic thinking that many people have isn't particularly conducive to resiliance nor is our contemporary reliance on experts and peers to support our decision making at every turn. There are quite a few strategies that help with emotional resilience as well as those life experiences that give us practice at it!! All of us have the power to change our thinking and drag triumph (or at least moderate success) out of disaster. I know that might feel contentious but it is my personal and professional experience.
 
OP I think it's good to admit you are struggling but perhaps you are looking to the wrong people for support, or perhaps the support they are giving you is all they are capable of.

Vets will set out all the options and sometimes it is hard to say no when the little voice in your head is wondering if it might be the miracle cure. I have three walking vet bills and I'm getting better at drawing the line rather than spending £££ trying every option out there. All the vets bar one have been sympathetic and empathetic to my situation, but I don't offload on them because that isn't their job. I have burst into floods of tears the minute they're off the phone though!

I don't know how you learn resiliance baring picking yourself up and getting on with it. When you've had a bad day can you think of something good that happened so can you say to yourself Yup, today was bad except for XYZ which was great. Can you distract yourself with non horsey friends?
 
Not sure I agree that it can’t be learned but not specifically for horses. My mother is terrible in a crisis and I like to think I am not!

Knowing why/how you react in certain ways/situations can sometimes help you change how you react, or at least recognise you are doing it. it’s ok to be not ok, it’s having the wherewithal to do what needs to be done next

Personally I found person centred therapy very helpful for general life resilience.
I certainly have had to learn career resilience, sometimes my job is rejection after rejection and is constantly criticised.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
Not sure I agree that it can’t be learned but not specifically for horses. My mother is terrible in a crisis and I like to think I am not!

Knowing why/how you react in certain ways/situations can sometimes help you change how you react, or at least recognise you are doing it. it’s ok to be not ok, it’s having the wherewithal to do what needs to be done next

Personally I found person centred therapy very helpful for general life resilience.
I certainly have had to learn career resilience, sometimes my job is rejection after rejection and is constantly criticised.
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I definitely think resilience can be learned. :) It's probably just easier if you are brought up in a way that supports a kind of gradual development of resilience and where you regularly see it in action. Personally, in terms of good mental health, I love the expression 'Think, and survive' but there are many techniques and ways of remembering that you CAN get through really difficult experiences and rise again to positivity, happiness and 'success' (whatever that looks like).
 
Unfortunately as my pony is on rehab which is very time consuming and tiring I have hardly seen any seen any family or non horsy friends for the last 9 months.

When I go to the yard after work I don't get home till 10.30pm which is too late to do anything. Weekends there is a limited service so if I want pony to be walked 3 times a day I had to do two walks myself and now if I want to have him in the pen at the weekend when there is less staff then I have to put him in and take him out.

I do play Bridge every other Saturday evening which I really find relaxing I used to also do Wednesday evenings as well for a card game but that is not a day when one of the grooms can help with riding so I try and make sure I go after work. There are liveries there who have not been to the yard for months due to work or family commitments but they don't have a box rest rehab horse.

I actually have a very busy work time coming including having to go away for 4 days including the weekend which is obviously difficult with the pen situation. Most people would just never mind only weekend not being able to go out but I feel bad if he doesn't get that time out after 8 months of no turnout that hour in the pen means a lot.

SEL said:
OP I think it's good to admit you are struggling but perhaps you are looking to the wrong people for support, or perhaps the support they are giving you is all they are capable of.

Vets will set out all the options and sometimes it is hard to say no when the little voice in your head is wondering if it might be the miracle cure. I have three walking vet bills and I'm getting better at drawing the line rather than spending £££ trying every option out there. All the vets bar one have been sympathetic and empathetic to my situation, but I don't offload on them because that isn't their job. I have burst into floods of tears the minute they're off the phone though!

I don't know how you learn resiliance baring picking yourself up and getting on with it. When you've had a bad day can you think of something good that happened so can you say to yourself Yup, today was bad except for XYZ which was great. Can you distract yourself with non horsey friends?
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Having done my fair share of rehabs on several horses... I hope this doesn't come across wrong OP but I think you might be putting more pressure on yourself than is necessary. In the grand scheme of things, missing one walk or one hour in the pen probably matters more to you than it does to your horse. The horse doesn't know what the plan is, after all.

Perhaps you need to cut yourself some slack for a week or 2 to just buy some mental space before getting back to it.
 
^^^ what MP said. The vet cheerfully told me when the microcob left hospital that she needed 2 x 30 minute walks per day. It was winter, dark at both ends of the day and I don't have electric let alone a lit arena. So we did our best and often that wasn't 2 x 30 minute walks because I have to go to work to pay her vet bills.

Don't beat yourself up about it. I don't know what's wrong with yours but mine is slowly on the road to recovery despite my neglect of her walking regime.
 
exactly - the vets will give the absolute gold standard rehab plan because they have to, but fitting it into a real life situation can necessitate compromises. Like they might recommend box rest for a horse that hates the stable. or roadwork for a horse that is a dangerous hack. or hillwork for a horse that lives in FlatLand. Last soft tissue rehab i did entirely in the arena, horse came back fine, we just had to tweak the plan a bit to allow for the deviation from what was optimum. Trying so hard you make yourself miserable is not going to improve the horse's chances of a recovery, you just end up traumatised by it all.
 
SEL said:
^^^ what MP said. The vet cheerfully told me when the microcob left hospital that she needed 2 x 30 minute walks per day. It was winter, dark at both ends of the day and I don't have electric let alone a lit arena. So we did our best and often that wasn't 2 x 30 minute walks because I have to go to work to pay her vet bills.

Don't beat yourself up about it. I don't know what's wrong with yours but mine is slowly on the road to recovery despite my neglect of her walking regime.
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I do think that vets often have unrealistic ideas of how much time owners have available. They often seem to think that they are talking to professionals who are with the horses all day, rather than the poor soul who has to go to work to keep these animals.
 
Vets and doctors are pretty much the same. They give you a treatment régime, but have no concept what that actually means in real terms, thats what they see as the perfect solution to the problem, but then you have to make it work to fit what is actually possible with few pairs of hands and resources. No one should feel bad if they can not follow things to the letter, you do what is possible, they are in the fortunate position that they leave the problem at the gate.
 
If vets had to become emotionally involved with all their cases and clients I doubt many would last long. The depression and suicide rate amongst vets is pretty high, here anyway. I worked for several years as a community hospice nurse. Our employers were huge on looking after our mental health and constantly ensuring we were not becoming involved with the patients or families in anything other than a total professional setting. If we had started to take on everyone's problems then we would not have been able to cope. It was difficult but you did learn to distance yourself from it.

Have you got friends you can chat to about how you feel?
 
He was having to do three one hour walks per day at one point. Now thankfully he is in the pen it is one 45 minutes in the morning then go in pen and then either a walk or ride in the afternoon or evening. He is up to 12 minutes trotting now he has another 8 weeks of rehab to go where he gets up to 12 minutes of cantering. He is on rehab for tendonitis I only need him to be field sound if I can ride in walk and do light hacking that is a bonus. I actually don't need him to to be able to canter for 12 minutes but if that is what he needs in order to strong enough to be able to have normal turnout that is what I need to aim for. He is a 20 year new forest not an eventer.

In the 9 months or rehab he only missed two walks which were when it was too stormy for it to be safe. He has been doing 3 walks a day for nearly 8 months thankfully only on two now. I do pay for him to go on the horsewalker but he hates the horsewalker and prefers to be walked in hand or under saddle. I don't want to be in the situation where it is my fault for not following the program and then he does not get better.

I am actually not sure if I could cope with starting all over again if he has reinjured.

SEL said:
^^^ what MP said. The vet cheerfully told me when the microcob left hospital that she needed 2 x 30 minute walks per day. It was winter, dark at both ends of the day and I don't have electric let alone a lit arena. So we did our best and often that wasn't 2 x 30 minute walks because I have to go to work to pay her vet bills.

Don't beat yourself up about it. I don't know what's wrong with yours but mine is slowly on the road to recovery despite my neglect of her walking regime.
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You are absolutely right I had a problem with my jaw and was told to do 18 exercises every hour, avoid talking and only eat soft food for 6 weeks. Impossible when I was working I only managed to the eat soft food part.

honetpot said:
Vets and doctors are pretty much the same. They give you a treatment régime, but have no concept what that actually means in real terms, thats what they see as the perfect solution to the problem, but then you have to make it work to fit what is actually possible with few pairs of hands and resources. No one should feel bad if they can not follow things to the letter, you do what is possible, they are in the fortunate position that they leave the problem at the gate.
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honestly OP you've put in a superhuman effort but you shouldn't be making yourself excessively stressed over it. Over the years i have learnt that while it's obviously important to do the rehab, after that the thing that determines whether they make a good recovery is not how much you destroy yourself over it, but (a) luck and (b) how the individual's body heals, which may or may not be textbook. Missing one walk now and then is not going to be the make or break thing.
 
Anyone managing 3 1 hour walks a day seems pretty bonkers to me, I don't think I'd have ever managed that, or been able to afford for someone else to do it for me, I'm not surprised you are struggling now.

MoC I'm great in a crisis, just not very resilient with everything else! Palo I think you also made an interesting point re. crying not equalling failure/emotions being part of the process. Even though I logically know it's not I probably have a core belief that it is (picked up from childhood) that is way harder to shift.
 
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