Rider too heavy

[Shilasdair]

oh it’s so terrible, there’s one very large DIY livery yard I go to and I would say most of the horses are lame, but from the riding and teaching that goes on in the arena when I’m there I’m not surprised. Very sad, a lot of screeching and kicking and yanking, absolutely no eye or explanation to riders of what healthy movement is or what they’re looking to achieve beyond get him forward and get his head in. It’s very sad.

I’ve had a few instances at this particular yard where I’ve been riding one horse then been approached by someone else because they like what they see, I’ve then got on their horse to give my opinion, one particular gelding is still in my head who was just the most gentle thing but absolutely screaming in pain tbh, not sound at all behind, felt like he was about to explode, couldn’t let go of the contact or even wrap your leg around without him jogging, (told me he’d decked her twice onto concrete on mounting after I’d already got on thanks for that). I have learnt how to tentatively broach these subjects and I find myself saying “do you want me to be honest?” a lot. This gelding had been under their instructor weekly for years and called pig-headed and all sorts, stronger bit, hammered round, had them out “competing” elementary dressage even though he couldn’t trot a circle on a long rein without rushing off.

When nobody has ever mentioned to these people that something might be off with their horse, it’s difficult for me to then go in and say I think there are several issues here and I think your horse is in pain, it’s hard for people to hear. They did have the horse scoped and treated for ulcers but none of the lameness was ever addressed, they sent him to a trainer who rode him through hard for a few weeks, said how thrilled they were with him, he then decked them twice at home again and is now retired. It’s very sad and it didn’t need to be that way, this is the really difficult side of working in the industry, but it’s hard to change when there are so many professionals out there who teach this way.

Totally off on a tangent there but hey it’s a discussion forum.

My favourite phrase used to be 'Does your horse normally move like this?' so I could find out if they knew it was lame or not.

 

[sbloom]

I wonder why this has become such an emotive issue...... because we are all basically the same and gain weight if we take in more energy than we burn.

Because weight is ALL about emotions. Most of us have a very emotional relationship with food, we eat when our emotions aren't good, it's comfort, it's denial, it's escape. If you don't address that then you can't address the weight, and anything remotely approaching fat shaming will only make things worse. Not saying you would, or that comments from a trainer etc would be fat shaming, but it's a SUPER complex area.

And we aren't bunsen burners. One particular experiment had volunteers eat a muffin and have their blood sugar monitored for over 3 hours afterwards, all previous research had been for 2 hours only. Those whose blood sugar spiked at 3 hours ate, at the next meal, on average 400 calories more than those whose blood sugar did not. And that increased hunger continued unless something else knocked it back. Saying it's "calories in must be equal or less than calories out" just doesn't acknowledge the complxity of weight loss. Add into that that most diets, in fact I believe 95%, fail in the long term with all the weight being regained and the majority actually ending up heavier. if it was easy we wouldn't have the obesity crisis, people aren't "lazy" etc any more than they were, the world is more complex and stressful, we have a mental health crisis, and we need to find things that actually help.

Not meaning to have a go at you in particular but your thoughts are widespread and we need to go a lot further to solve the problem.

We've completely normalised people and animals being overweight. It's actually a bit distressing.

I honestly think it is high time we all stopped being polite about it. But actually breaking the increasing taboo and being blunt is incredibly hard.

Maybe try

I would say that it's important for equine welfare that we do have these conversations but we do not need to be blunt. We need to have conversations, not give lectures. To find a point in a conversation where we can move onto sensitive subjects, and have knowledge of the sorts of resources that can actually help people. I would refer people to Rebelfit and/or Rider Reboot, both on FB. The former is very well geared for looking at the emotional relationship with food, the latter an overall rider programme that will absolutely provide the tools for those who are no longer heavily emotionally tied up with food to find better ways to be healthy, strong and straight for their horse.

Good luck. I know of one person who is too heavy for any horse. All the pro’s they employ seem to have taken a vow of silence and keep on taking the money. Body worker, saddle fitter, instructor, vet……….. Poor horse.

Once a vet has vetted a horse as suitable for a purpose it's flipping hard for any of us to tell a rider they're too heavy for the horse. And it isn't part of a vetting. Now should it be? I don't know. A good friend who's a vet says 100% not, but if someone with a lot of letters after their name by implication has said the horse is good to go for that purpose (and that purpose surely includes the stated rider) then many riders will see saddle fitters and trainers as busy bodies.

I have managed to have the conversation with quite a few, others it's clear that nothing will change. I do NOT continue to fit for them for the money, I walk away from plenty of fittings and have given a LOT of advice, spent extra time giving pointers, and in a few cases it's been about rider weight. However if I know if that person's going to continue riding whatever then I can at least mitigate the damage as well as can possibly be done. I would say almost all of us are massively ethical and sometimes this stuff actually keeps us up at night. Devil and deep blue sea.

 

[AWinter]

My favourite phrase used to be 'Does your horse normally move like this?' so I could find out if they knew it was lame or not.

ah that’s a good one actually, I’ve used that before but I usually say “oh dear he looks a lame behind is he normally like this/does he feel normal to you?” and they usually say no but at least it opens the door to addressing it whether they’re fibbing or not. Perhaps it’s not fibbing it’s just they cannot see or feel it but don’t want to tell you that.

 

[AWinter]

Because weight is ALL about emotions. Most of us have a very emotional relationship with food, we eat when our emotions aren't good, it's comfort, it's denial, it's escape. If you don't address that then you can't address the weight, and anything remotely approaching fat shaming will only make things worse. Not saying you would, or that comments from a trainer etc would be fat shaming, but it's a SUPER complex area.

And we aren't bunsen burners. One particular experiment had volunteers eat a muffin and have their blood sugar monitored for over 3 hours afterwards, all previous research had been for 2 hours only. Those whose blood sugar spiked at 3 hours ate, at the next meal, on average 400 calories more than those whose blood sugar did not. And that increased hunger continued unless something else knocked it back. Saying it's "calories in must be equal or less than calories out" just doesn't acknowledge the complxity of weight loss. Add into that that most diets, in fact I believe 95%, fail in the long term with all the weight being regained and the majority actually ending up heavier. if it was easy we wouldn't have the obesity crisis, people aren't "lazy" etc any more than they were, the world is more complex and stressful, we have a mental health crisis, and we need to find things that actually help.

Not meaning to have a go at you in particular but your thoughts are widespread and we need to go a lot further to solve the problem.



I would say that it's important for equine welfare that we do have these conversations but we do not need to be blunt. We need to have conversations, not give lectures. To find a point in a conversation where we can move onto sensitive subjects, and have knowledge of the sorts of resources that can actually help people. I would refer people to Rebelfit and/or Rider Reboot, both on FB. The former is very well geared for looking at the emotional relationship with food, the latter an overall rider programme that will absolutely provide the tools for those who are no longer heavily emotionally tied up with food to find better ways to be healthy, strong and straight for their horse.



Once a vet has vetted a horse as suitable for a purpose it's flipping hard for any of us to tell a rider they're too heavy for the horse. And it isn't part of a vetting. Now should it be? I don't know. A good friend who's a vet says 100% not, but if someone with a lot of letters after their name by implication has said the horse is good to go for that purpose (and that purpose surely includes the stated rider) then many riders will see saddle fitters and trainers as busy bodies.

I have managed to have the conversation with quite a few, others it's clear that nothing will change. I do NOT continue to fit for them for the money, I walk away from plenty of fittings and have given a LOT of advice, spent extra time giving pointers, and in a few cases it's been about rider weight. However if I know if that person's going to continue riding whatever then I can at least mitigate the damage as well as can possibly be done. I would say almost all of us are massively ethical and sometimes this stuff actually keeps us up at night. Devil and deep blue sea.

Wow really thoughtful and insightful reply. I think the discussion is definitely delicate a one and easier when you have a good rapport with someone. I do think I’m good at gently explaining issues and showing how and why it’s a problem etc but this one just has me a bit cautious. I would feel uncomfortable giving someone unwarranted advice on how to perhaps approach losing weight so it would have to be that they have asked. I’ll look up those programs you mentioned it sounds useful. Very interesting about the blood sugar experiment, I really do appreciate the struggle a lot of people have.

 

[Mule]

I've heard it put as a suggestion that the rider could get fitter. It's more tactful than saying the rider is too heavy for the horse but it still gets the message across. Although, if the horse isn't doing anything too taxing I'd leave well alone. If horse and rider are just tipping around a few times a week I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[Shilasdair]

To follow on from Sbloom's insightful reply - personally, although I used to teach riding, I would be out of my comfort and knowledge zone offering advice to riders about weight/fitness.
I have had one instructor helpfully correct my toe position on my right leg by physically bending it inwards. The reason it sticks out is because I managed to dislocate my ankle and knee, and break both lower leg bones when I was younger. The yelp I emitted may have made her rethink for future ankle bending events.

What if we inadvertently, and with the best of intentions did the same to someone's mental health?

 

[sbloom]

To follow on from Sbloom's insightful reply - personally, although I used to teach riding, I would be out of my comfort and knowledge zone offering advice to riders about weight/fitness.
I have had one instructor helpfully correct my toe position on my right leg by physically bending it inwards. The reason it sticks out is because I managed to dislocate my ankle and knee, and break both lower leg bones when I was younger. The yelp I emitted may have made her rethink for future ankle bending events.

What if we inadvertently, and with the best of intentions did the same to someone's mental health?

Half of all trainers and even some biomechanics coaches are ignoring the limitations of bodies (occasionally) but also ignoring the limitations of saddles, half the session is helping the rider, through tension, overcome that, rather than actually helping them align correctly, which would require getting a better saddle. We're all wary of giving advice outside of our areas but unless our clients can afford to see several professionals together, with the relevant ones stepping in where needed, we do need to find ways to talk about important holistic issues that fall outside our immediate areas of expertise, and refer on where necessary.

 

[Melody Grey]

With equine professionals, I think there is specialism and general ‘good, experienced knowledge’. Ultimately, I would want my saddle fitter to have the deciding vote on saddle fit, though if my vet or physio commented that it was too long/ too narrow/ whatever, I’d certainly be listening and starting that conversation. So I think it’s acceptable for a professional to make suggestions that are outside their specific focus if they’re relevant and well intended.

 

[FlyingCircus]

This has been an interesting thread.

When I was about 16 I was having private lessons with a chap who used to be a jockey. I was 5ft2 and about 8 and a half stone at the time, so not exactly huge! But he had no issue telling me I was too unfit and untoned to do the horse justice. Also told me to start running ?

I do wonder if because he was used to having to weigh in to be a jockey, that he could just treat it as fact and with little emotional attachment.

Even at 16, I was a little offended but I couldn't doubt he had a point as apart from riding I was mostly a couch potato!

 

[Mule]

To follow on from Sbloom's insightful reply - personally, although I used to teach riding, I would be out of my comfort and knowledge zone offering advice to riders about weight/fitness.
I have had one instructor helpfully correct my toe position on my right leg by physically bending it inwards. The reason it sticks out is because I managed to dislocate my ankle and knee, and break both lower leg bones when I was younger. The yelp I emitted may have made her rethink for future ankle bending events.

What if we inadvertently, and with the best of intentions did the same to someone's mental health?

That's a good point. You never know what's going on in people's heads. Probably best to be cautious. If horse and rider aren't doing strenuous work it probably won't cause problems anyway.

 

[AWinter]

Half of all trainers and even some biomechanics coaches are ignoring the limitations of bodies (occasionally) but also ignoring the limitations of saddles, half the session is helping the rider, through tension, overcome that, rather than actually helping them align correctly, which would require getting a better saddle. We're all wary of giving advice outside of our areas but unless our clients can afford to see several professionals together, with the relevant ones stepping in where needed, we do need to find ways to talk about important holistic issues that fall outside our immediate areas of expertise, and refer on where necessary.

This is another really good point, my expertise is as a trainer, but they aren’t totally separate things, the horse needs to be well in its body and the tack needs to fit etc. I’m not a vet but I can recognise lameness and other behaviours that point to pain very well through years of working with hundreds of horses, I may not be able to fit a saddle but I can see when it doesn’t fit and can recommend professionals I think are good.

The worst is when they get a vet out who watches the horse trot up and declares there is nothing wrong with it without any further investigation and the issue is totally behavioural. I then have to argue my case to a very confused client who’s horse is showing signs of possible ulcers/kissing spine/the usual suspects. It’s all very difficult when professionals vary so much in their quality/expertise, you told them to get a vet, they did, the vet says it’s fine when you know it’s not, so then what do you do.

 

[Winters100]

Because weight is ALL about emotions. Most of us have a very emotional relationship with food, we eat when our emotions aren't good, it's comfort, it's denial, it's escape. If you don't address that then you can't address the weight, and anything remotely approaching fat shaming will only make things worse. Not saying you would, or that comments from a trainer etc would be fat shaming, but it's a SUPER complex area.

And we aren't bunsen burners. One particular experiment had volunteers eat a muffin and have their blood sugar monitored for over 3 hours afterwards, all previous research had been for 2 hours only. Those whose blood sugar spiked at 3 hours ate, at the next meal, on average 400 calories more than those whose blood sugar did not. And that increased hunger continued unless something else knocked it back. Saying it's "calories in must be equal or less than calories out" just doesn't acknowledge the complxity of weight loss. Add into that that most diets, in fact I believe 95%, fail in the long term with all the weight being regained and the majority actually ending up heavier. if it was easy we wouldn't have the obesity crisis, people aren't "lazy" etc any more than they were, the world is more complex and stressful, we have a mental health crisis, and we need to find things that actually help.

Not meaning to have a go at you in particular but your thoughts are widespread and we need to go a lot further to solve the problem.

Firstly you are right that I would never try to shame someone over their weight. I have several close friends who are overweight and have only ever discussed anything at the request of the other person. I do however believe that it is different when in the position of OP, because as a trainer she has a duty of care to both the horse and the rider.

I get what you are saying about diets too, but it actually really is calories in and calories out. Some of us do not burn calories as easily, me included, and staying at the right weight is incredibly tough. I have to stay at the lowest end of a healthy weight because of health problems caused by a riding injury - if I do not I get terrible problems with my back. Because I do not seem to have a quick metabolism my calories out are lower, so I have to limit the calories I take in and stick strictly to 1200 calories a day, and that is with an active lifestyle. I feel hungry very often, and I have had to learn to tolerate that. I would also say that people can be incredibly insensitive at the other end of the spectrum. I have very often received comments that I am 'scrawny' or 'skinny', or that I would look better if I gained some weight (which is actually true). These people would dream of telling me to lose weight if I was a few stone heavier!

I also think that the fact that many have an emotional relationship with food is only half the story, because in this case why are so many small children obese? A baby or small child eats what food they are given after all. I don't know the answer, and I would never support any type of unkindness, but I do wonder whether part of the problem is that being overweight has become something that parents are terrified to discuss with their children, and because of that it feels shameful to people? I am not sure that it is because of mental health, since there are other countries where people have much tougher lives, and where there is not so much of a problem. An interesting debate I guess as to why the UK / US seem to lead the way in this. My personal feeling is that I couldn't care less what weight my friends are, because as adults it is their business and does not affect the way that I see them as people, but where small children are concerned I do wonder whether there should be tougher intervention, as I believe that a healthy diet is a basic right of every child.

 

[angel7]

I've been on the receiving end of this discussion and it was simply that I couldn't see the issue.
I had bought a hatrack TB about 15hh in terrible condition and was wrapped up in fixing him to be my forever horse. I loved him very much.
While he did put on a ton of weight and muscle over 150kg I simply couldn't see that he would not be able to carry my 5"5 14 stone frame. He had legs like twigs. Vet and physio had said nothing.
It took a trip to local saddler Millbrae, thank you, to take one look at the TB hack type, establish I wanted to ride him eventually and he simply said I needed a bigger horse This horse was not up to carrying my frame. He then showed how short the back was, only up to a 16" saddle and and he couldnt fit a saddle. Sent me on my way telling me to come back with a 16h cob.
I was that taken aback at how matter of fact he was. Actually it was the best though as I couldn't kid myself and horse was promptly rehomed.

Dont beat about the bush, if she loses 2 stone will the horse cope or will it still be an issue? Be straightforward and kind, she might really not be aware.

 

[marmalade76]

I've been on the receiving end of this discussion and it was simply that I couldn't see the issue.
I had bought a hatrack TB about 15hh in terrible condition and was wrapped up in fixing him to be my forever horse. I loved him very much.
While he did put on a ton of weight and muscle over 150kg I simply couldn't see that he would not be able to carry my 5"5 14 stone frame. He had legs like twigs. Vet and physio had said nothing.
It took a trip to local saddler Millbrae, thank you, to take one look at the TB hack type, establish I wanted to ride him eventually and he simply said I needed a bigger horse This horse was not up to carrying my frame. He then showed how short the back was, only up to a 16" saddle and and he couldnt fit a saddle. Sent me on my way telling me to come back with a 16h cob.
I was that taken aback at how matter of fact he was. Actually it was the best though as I couldn't kid myself and horse was promptly rehomed.

Dont beat about the bush, if she loses 2 stone will the horse cope or will it still be an issue? Be straightforward and kind, she might really not be aware.

It's not just about weight with the small LW/TB type horse - I've been half heartedly looking for a sharer for my 15.1 ISH, a lady of 5'10 but the same weight as me (I'm only 5') enquired and we agreed for her to come & try him with a we'll see how you look & feel attitude - it was immediately obvious neither horse nor rider were comfortable.

 

[I'm Dun]

Firstly you are right that I would never try to shame someone over their weight. I have several close friends who are overweight and have only ever discussed anything at the request of the other person. I do however believe that it is different when in the position of OP, because as a trainer she has a duty of care to both the horse and the rider.

I get what you are saying about diets too, but it actually really is calories in and calories out. Some of us do not burn calories as easily, me included, and staying at the right weight is incredibly tough. I have to stay at the lowest end of a healthy weight because of health problems caused by a riding injury - if I do not I get terrible problems with my back. Because I do not seem to have a quick metabolism my calories out are lower, so I have to limit the calories I take in and stick strictly to 1200 calories a day, and that is with an active lifestyle. I feel hungry very often, and I have had to learn to tolerate that. I would also say that people can be incredibly insensitive at the other end of the spectrum. I have very often received comments that I am 'scrawny' or 'skinny', or that I would look better if I gained some weight (which is actually true). These people would dream of telling me to lose weight if I was a few stone heavier!

I also think that the fact that many have an emotional relationship with food is only half the story, because in this case why are so many small children obese? A baby or small child eats what food they are given after all. I don't know the answer, and I would never support any type of unkindness, but I do wonder whether part of the problem is that being overweight has become something that parents are terrified to discuss with their children, and because of that it feels shameful to people? I am not sure that it is because of mental health, since there are other countries where people have much tougher lives, and where there is not so much of a problem. An interesting debate I guess as to why the UK / US seem to lead the way in this. My personal feeling is that I couldn't care less what weight my friends are, because as adults it is their business and does not affect the way that I see them as people, but where small children are concerned I do wonder whether there should be tougher intervention, as I believe that a healthy diet is a basic right of every child.

Yet it really isnt calories in vs calories out. The science shows that diets dont work for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Winters100]

Yet it really isnt calories in vs calories out. The science shows that diets dont work for a multitude of reasons.

But I don't really get this, because in terms of intake there is a reality that there is a point below which everyone will lose weight, sure a different point for all, but it exists. And yes it is hard to stick to this long term, but many things in life are hard. I am aware that for me to maintain and neither gain nor lose I can have about 1200 cals, for others it may be more, but are you saying that some people would not lose weight whatever regime they stuck to?

 

[Flame_]

But I don't really get this, because in terms of intake there is a reality that there is a point below which everyone will lose weight, sure a different point for all, but it exists. And yes it is hard to stick to this long term, but many things in life are hard. I am aware that for me to maintain and neither gain nor lose I can have about 1200 cals, for others it may be more, but are you saying that some people would not lose weight whatever regime they stuck to?

I think they're saying that the diet/ regime thing is short term, and in the long term the diet/ regime will end, the normal habits and patterns will return and the weight will just go back on. Some people just don't have a mindset of permanently monitoring what they eat, they eat more for pleasure, satisfaction and reward than for fuel out of necessity. Most of the food available to us and advertised to us appeals to us to want it, since we sure as hell don't need it.

I frequently walk in excess of 60 miles a week and still have to be mindful of how much and of what I eat or my weight goes up easily. I get stricter on myself when my clothes get tight, I don't own scales. Other people address the issue by buying bigger clothes...

I'd go with the poster who said say that you think their horse is too small, although i've been on yards where people have ridden horses which IMO were too small for them and I have never said anything. If your job is to solve a problem, and you can't because you believe the horse is too small, I think it's reasonable to say so.

 

[Winters100]

I think they're saying that the diet/ regime thing is short term, and in the long term the diet/ regime will end, the normal habits and patterns will return and the weight will just go back on..

Yes, I am sure that you are right. But I suppose my point was that it is not that the diet does not work, just that as with anything if you stop doing it then it stops working

ETA I KNOW that it is hard, I get it, but I have to consider every small thing I eat, and so do many people who need to watch their weight. I follow a diet, and it works because I follow it, if I decide to eat things outside of that diet plan then it is me who has failed, not the diet.

 

[saddlesore]

I don’t really have anything constructive to add but I think it’s a real blow for animal welfare that we live in a society where ‘gilding the Lilly’ is needed to inform someone they are too heavy for their unfortunate mount. I don’t get where ‘fat shaming’ comes into it. If people are fat and happy then fair enough, but don’t be so naive as to think it doesn’t have implications on your horse. OP I wish it were easier for you to *kindly* say what needs said, but the way the world is going it’s probably better to just be too busy…. ?

 

[Miszeemare]

I really think the vet should have said something when they saw the horse. We had a pony on the yard that was ridden by a hefty teen and even heftier mother. The pony had issues (obviously) and the vet informed them that it was to carry no more than 9 stone - how hard is that to say to someone ?‍. The pony was put on loan to a petite lady. I don‘t think anything would have changed unless they were told by the vet himself though.

 

[cremedemonthe]

I've had plenty of practice. Fitting saddles from 1987 to 2012 and the occasional one still, I has seen it all. Riders so large their backsides were hanging over the cantle of the saddle, 18 stone woman on a T/B ex racer who was riddled with arthritis and knackered legs (the horse that is, not the woman riding it) . I used to pussyfoot around, I mean how does a man tell a woman she too large, fat, heavy for the horse she clearly loves and wants to ride?

But in the end over time I grew a pair. I knew I had to be VERY careful or it would have ended in tears and me in A & E. You just have to be professional, get straight to the point as soon as you can or it makes it even harder and you are wasting your time and theirs if you continue, don't be blunt and certainly do it away from others who could be listening. It's a hard thing to have to do but you have to. Every situation with every rider and horse is different, try to judge the mood and the person in question. If they do kick off at you (I've had a few ) then best to just say I'm sorry I can't offer you anymore help and withdraw to a safer climate. Don't promote or recommend other professionals to try to help, as they won't thank you for it, be non committal Some people will always blame you for everything, it's human nature. They can't see the wood for the trees and are either in denial with their weight issue or genuinely don't realise that are under horsed. I wish you all the luck in the world but stick to your principles, don't rise to verbal attack, keep repeating your reasons for why you think they are too big and politely leave if you have to.
Good luck Oz

 

[Highmileagecob]

I've been on the receiving end of this discussion and it was simply that I couldn't see the issue.
I had bought a hatrack TB about 15hh in terrible condition and was wrapped up in fixing him to be my forever horse. I loved him very much.
While he did put on a ton of weight and muscle over 150kg I simply couldn't see that he would not be able to carry my 5"5 14 stone frame. He had legs like twigs. Vet and physio had said nothing.
It took a trip to local saddler Millbrae, thank you, to take one look at the TB hack type, establish I wanted to ride him eventually and he simply said I needed a bigger horse This horse was not up to carrying my frame. He then showed how short the back was, only up to a 16" saddle and and he couldnt fit a saddle. Sent me on my way telling me to come back with a 16h cob.
I was that taken aback at how matter of fact he was. Actually it was the best though as I couldn't kid myself and horse was promptly rehomed.

Dont beat about the bush, if she loses 2 stone will the horse cope or will it still be an issue? Be straightforward and kind, she might really not be aware.

My hacking friend retired and slowly gained weight to the point that her horse didn't really look comfortable. One lovely summer day we had bathed the horses, and tacked up for a ride, and I photographed her on the yard before we set off. I sent her the pictures and she was mortified at how she looked perched on the back of the saddle and it did trigger a diet of sorts. Horse is now retired, but as above, some people are genuinely unaware that the horse is not a good fit for their frame.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/ga...and-snow-the-weekends-best-photos-in-pictures

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I hope there are some serious complaints going into the Guardian about that bullsh*t photo MC!

As someone who has a very complex history & relationship with food, I have always invited the conversaition with any professionals that worked with us. Simply by saying 'I know sometimes I don't notice as I see myself everyday but if you for a minute think my weight is affecting Jacob then please just tell me, I won't be upset.' Then I found I wasn't so paranoid about it all the time.

Let us know the outcome OP, I hope she is receptive to what you have to say.

 

[Cherryblossom]

Could you approach it from the horses height POV? “He should be 500kg, which would allow him to carry 20% of his weight, so 100kg rider and tack. Because he’s already carrying about an extra 50kg weight, that only leaves 50kg for rider and saddle, and not too many of us would manage that!”

 

[AWinter]

Obviously don’t want to give too much specific info but horse is an overweight 15hh cob and I think has been told heavy cob= weight carrier and yes to a point but she is sitting right on the cantle due to her size, we are having another groundwork session next week and I will discuss in depth then, will let you know.
Thanks for all the thoughts and advice.

 

[sbloom]

But I don't really get this, because in terms of intake there is a reality that there is a point below which everyone will lose weight, sure a different point for all, but it exists. And yes it is hard to stick to this long term, but many things in life are hard. I am aware that for me to maintain and neither gain nor lose I can have about 1200 cals, for others it may be more, but are you saying that some people would not lose weight whatever regime they stuck to?

Set point weight. What weight does your body gravitate towards? This is key. We only have so much willpower, and if we're in a really stressful situation in life then we're going to really struggle to use that willpower for dieting. Imagine you're that 3 hour sugar spike person and you're having to resist that extra 400 calories every day, you're going to fail sooner or later if you don't adjust how you react to sugar and how you feel about your weight, diet and nutrition. Just reiterating that if you eat less and move more or similar, isn't going to help people. Have a look at @rebelfit on FB and other sources of modern dietary advice (not NHS sadly), gut health, mental health and a ton of other different factors contribute to set point weight. Most of us need to shift our set point weight before we can hope to lose weight, and you know what, to do that we need to be content with our bodies. So mental health and acceptance comes first, then any other factors contributing to a high set point weight and THEN a diet.

No point saying diets work because they reduce calories when the vast majority of people end up doing more harm to themselves with yo-yo dieting and eventually long term weight gain when following diets. And don't get me started on commercial diets and their utterly cr*p processed foods, and syns and anything else that makes a mockery of being in a good place with body and food.

 

[hollyandivy123]

Set point weight. What weight does your body gravitate towards? This is key. We only have so much willpower, and if we're in a really stressful situation in life then we're going to really struggle to use that willpower for dieting. Imagine you're that 3 hour sugar spike person and you're having to resist that extra 400 calories every day, you're going to fail sooner or later if you don't adjust how you react to sugar and how you feel about your weight, diet and nutrition. Just reiterating that if you eat less and move more or similar, isn't going to help people. Have a look at @rebelfit on FB and other sources of modern dietary advice (not NHS sadly), gut health, mental health and a ton of other different factors contribute to set point weight. Most of us need to shift our set point weight before we can hope to lose weight, and you know what, to do that we need to be content with our bodies. So mental health and acceptance comes first, then any other factors contributing to a high set point weight and THEN a diet.

No point saying diets work because they reduce calories when the vast majority of people end up doing more harm to themselves with yo-yo dieting and eventually long term weight gain when following diets. And don't get me started on commercial diets and their utterly cr*p processed foods, and syns and anything else that makes a mockery of being in a good place with body and food.

agree with this unfortunately the only "diet" which works long term is a change of "life diet" as in this has to be a long term change, mostly a balanced healthy with the occasional treat approach. we have forgotten that cakes, chocolate, refined carbs etc etc are in the treat, not a treat every day or twice a day................found out at the weekend that 2 glasses of wine tend to be what an adult should have as maximum sugar..................... sorry to spoil peoples Monday

 

[Birker2020]

I took my previous horse to the vet years ago for their rider to ride him as part of a lameness assessment and the vet reported back to me and said "yes he was still 2/10th lame even with a light rider on him" which kind of upset meat the time although I just smiled and accepted it.

I get where he was coming from but given my horses build, type and weight I wasn't too heavy for him as he was a weight carrying type but I'm conscious I need to lose a lot more for my present horse. Again he can carry me fine and I have been told that by people but I still get a bit paranoid as he seems such a lighter type than Bailey. I'm paranoid that the saddle will start to dig into him with me on board.

 

[ycbm]

I'm paranoid that the saddle will start to dig into him with me on board.

To be honest, Birker, not enough people are worried about this. As well as a % weight "rule", riders should be aware that any weight of over 1.5lbs per square inch of saddle in weight bearing contact with the horse is reckoned to be damaging.
.