Robert Whitaker

[Stella]

I'm not a showjumper and I appreciate that the issues are different to dressage, so I thought I'd ask others - is it just me or has Robert Whitaker got awful hands? Whenever I watch him he seems very heavy on his hands. Am I just coincidentally only seeing him when his horse is being strong or is he constently like that (as it seems to me)? Also he always looks like he is pushing a pram! I feel I should get behind him as he is one of ours, but I'm constantly wincing whenever I watch him ride

So is it just me?

 

[Santa_Claus]

All i will say is that they are a hell of a lot better than they used to be.

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
All i will say is that they are a hell of a lot better than they used to be.

[/ QUOTE ] Do you mean the Whitakers or showjumpers? There was a Danish woman who rode first in the 'Santa Stakes' (currantly on TV Saturday night) and she rode so quietly and nicely that it made RW style look even worse than usual

 

[seza]

Most showjumpers ride with their hands flatter than most leisure riders are taught. They say that it is to help control and they find it more comfortable with a strong horse. Puissance is always a difficult class to judge on style because they are such big questions that are asked. I think IMO that Robert is riding better now than he ever has done. he has spent some time in Germany and I think it shows.

 

[Santa_Claus]

I was referring solely to Robert's hands

 

[vivhewe]

I think though it's related to the fact that BSJA riders are getting rougher and rougher

We discussed it at work a few weeks ago - their emphasis when riding goes on speed rather than style. Most are equichavs and only interested in winning

I'm not saying RW is, just that a few top SJ'ers aren't superb riders.

*viv leaves quietly escaping the wrath of SJ'ers and Equichavs the world over*

 

[fizz-tally]

robert doesnt have the eaisest horses in the world which doesnt help how he rides

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
robert doesnt have the eaisest horses in the world which doesnt help how he rides

[/ QUOTE ] Wouldn't you think he would have a wide choice of very good horses given the dynesty?

Viv - I take you point

(ducks for cover .....!)

 

[fizz-tally]

it doesnt mean the ones he has cant jump just because they are difficult rides

my old bsja mare was a cow when ridden,she would take off at 90mph for no reason but she could jump like a stag

 

[Rambo]

It's not his hands that leave the marks

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not his hands that leave the marks

[/ QUOTE ]Poor hands hurt a horses mouth and can damage it

 

[fizz-tally]

i know what you mean!

he does have ummmm "wandering hands" though

 

[Skhosu]

I agree totally vivhewe.
Went to a HPI a while ago and the little kids were litterally hitting the pony all the way round to make it go faster (admittedly, mainly the smaller kids and not very hard) and seen a lot more bad behaviour in the ring recently.Think there are a lot of quiet riders out there at the mo, sadly many don't seem to be british!

 

[RunToEarth]

T be fair on him that chestnut is not an easy ride...

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not his hands that leave the marks

[/ QUOTE ]Poor hands hurt a horses mouth and can damage it

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not arguing that point....it's the scars down the horses side that I don't like....and it seems to be most of the time he jumps it. Hickstead was the last time I saw him jump.....

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not his hands that leave the marks

[/ QUOTE ]Poor hands hurt a horses mouth and can damage it

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not arguing that point....it's the scars down the horses side that I don't like....and it seems to be most of the time he jumps it. Hickstead was the last time I saw him jump.....

[/ QUOTE ] Thats very sad

 

[viola]

Love show jumping but also have to agree (sadly)

I went to Royal Leisure last weekend and the person who won BN barely managed to stay on fighting for the time in the jump off; if the lowest classess lack style how can the big ones be any better... the said person should thank their horse from dust to dawn for its outstanding ability to tolerate such bad riding.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
I think though it's related to the fact that BSJA riders are getting rougher and rougher

I'm not saying RW is, just that a few top SJ'ers aren't superb riders.

*viv leaves quietly escaping the wrath of SJ'ers and Equichavs the world over*

[/ QUOTE ]

Not just BSJA; I've seen precious few 'top' SJers here who have the seats/hands/other I would wish to emulate... I wonder if they get where they are because the horses are so talented (and expensive) and whether they wouldn't get further if they took a bit more trouble to school their horses. This is not a comment on RW either (never so much as seen him ride except in the RDavidson DVD) but here in Argentina I've seen soooo many horses go around fighting their riders, etc, etc and wonder how the riders can be content with that....

 

[Jemayni]

Eat me for saying it. But I have never heard anyone else comment about scars on his horses sides, nor can I find a photo that shows any. I would be surprised if he got the results he did, if he merely beat his horses into submission. Besides I don't really see a massive problem with his hands, he gets the results, not everyone has to be "classical," a lot of show jumpers appear to ride with flatter hands. The lad is only young and personally I think he does a very good job of riding his horses, and the results he gets show that!

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
Love show jumping but also have to agree (sadly)

I went to Royal Leisure last weekend and the person who won BN barely managed to stay on fighting for the time in the jump off

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah well, we might've got it right in Argentina then; the rules until 1m are that the closest to the optimum time wins, so in effect racing is penalised. Occasionally they get it wrong and you have to wander all over the course to meet the time right, or go really really fast, but mostly it's just about right

 

[lisaward]

think ellen is a great rider much more stylish,i also thought that the swiss man gave his horse a lovely ride..

 

[Skhosu]

Can't be doing with ellen. She just to me acts like a rich spoilt brat. Yes talks the talk, but watching her ride anything other than locarno (and even him!) she has such a pout when she loses, and seems to struggle.
However she is young, maybe she will grow out of it.

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Love show jumping but also have to agree (sadly)

I went to Royal Leisure last weekend and the person who won BN barely managed to stay on fighting for the time in the jump off

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah well, we might've got it right in Argentina then; the rules until 1m are that the closest to the optimum time wins, so in effect racing is penalised. Occasionally they get it wrong and you have to wander all over the course to meet the time right, or go really really fast, but mostly it's just about right

[/ QUOTE ] The 'pram pushing' position was a side issue really, its the pulling, yanking and throwing then up, dowm then wide etc that I was wondering about. I accept that there must be occasions for 'taking a pull', but there is so much off it and whenever I watch him ride, I totally distracted but worry for the horse's mouth

I don't think being young (a young adult) is any excuse. He has had access to the best instructors and there are many children who ride with much better hands (although I concede that they tend not to be showjumpers).

 

[vivhewe]

[ QUOTE ]
T be fair on him that chestnut is not an easy ride...

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally true. I noticed in the Puissance that the chestnut JW was on seemed strong too - I noticed he had to do cirlces and go tighter and tighter to slow it down after the wall. Rather him than me is all I can say!

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
The 'pram pushing' position was a side issue really, its the pulling, yanking and throwing then up, dowm then wide etc that I was wondering about. I accept that there must be occasions for 'taking a pull', but there is so much off it and whenever I watch him ride, I totally distracted but worry for the horse's mouth

I don't think being young (a young adult) is any excuse. He has had access to the best instructors and there are many children who ride with much better hands (although I concede that they tend not to be showjumpers).

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly, I've seen more yanking, smacking (hiding sometimes!

) and other displays of sloppy riding amongst adults at high level than kids here. Perhaps because all the kids here have an instructor at shows to give them a bollocking if they behave badly.

 

[RunToEarth]

[ QUOTE ]
Can't be doing with ellen. She just to me acts like a rich spoilt brat. Yes talks the talk, but watching her ride anything other than locarno (and even him!) she has such a pout when she loses, and seems to struggle.
However she is young, maybe she will grow out of it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree with this, yes she has not yet learnrd to take life with a pinch of salt, losing gets to her, but she is a wonderful rider, I watched her take Bec's 4yo around a 70cm course last week and I have new found admiration for her, plus, she has world class relatives she is up against, its hard...

 

[MagicMelon]

Yeah, I dont like the way Robert rides either. I like the way Ellen rides however hate the way she can act like a spoilt brat sometimes - like in one of the Olympia classes, her horse had a few down so she yanks its teeth out to a halt. She's just got that stroppy nasty edge to her.

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I dont like the way Robert rides either. I like the way Ellen rides however hate the way she can act like a spoilt brat sometimes - like in one of the Olympia classes, her horse had a few down so she yanks its teeth out to a halt. She's just got that stroppy nasty edge to her.

[/ QUOTE ] Oh dear, I hadn't seen her doing that sort of thing

She is an example of how it can be done though isn't she? She sits quietly and generally has good hands.

 

[debbielinder]

i think robert did a bloody good job in the pruissance that chestnut looked like it was gonna stop in mid air every time. rather him than me wouldnt fancy going over something 3ft on that i think ellen is a very stylish jockey but think some of the female showjumpers tend to be looking at some of the footage from olympia but i to think she comes across as a spoilt brat although not met her so cant say to much. have to say wasnt impressed with some of the foreign riders it was all yanking and pulling and gobbing there horses in the mouths and the majority of the times it didnt work any way

 

[wizzi901]

I am guessing that most people replying to this most in a negative way have never ridden a horse of the ability that JW rides?

My boy is an ex grade A and did a lot of 1.40 before i had him, got sour hence he was retired to me. These horses are tough and sometimes believe it not, need to be wound up to perform. They are damn strong (bear in mind what they are being asked to jump) you really need some power over that kind of jump.

My boy always go better (even now at 24!) for a man who is a little rough than for me, as I am usually too soft.

He has a mouth which is hard as hell because you do have to get a lot of these horses firmly between hand and leg power wise.

Its not everyone's ideal but this is how most of these horses are and they are more comfortable like that than being ridden "pretty".

If I rode "pretty" my boy wouldnt jump a stick, it is the way they are brought up to get over these fences in some cases.

Before critisising, I'd try riding one first, they are not the easiest of rides and hold a lot of power under the saddle, hence a lot of the riders are male....and not small!!

The whittaker family are renowned for bringing horses on slowly and allowing the horse to get on with its job over the fence. You really dont want an out of control hot blooded horse reeling into a fence at that height, so they do have to take a pull. They are like highly tuned power cars!!

Harvey smith was rough in his day!! I dont see many problems with any of the whittakers