Robert Whitaker

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
This is what I believe:

"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. " attributed, probably inaccurately to Voltaire (the first one, not the HHOer)

Whether or not I like what you have to say (and I don't mean you specifically Kate), I won't dispute your right to say it. In fact I am infuriated by anyone who says "you can't say that... for X, Y, Z reason"
I believe you have been saying that unless we can perform at the same level as RW, we can't criticise him because it's not fair...
That's not going to stop me saying Richard Gere is an inferior actor, that all politicians in Argentina are crooked, that footballers IMO earn FAR more than they deserve, that Anna Kournikova is not all that... God, I could go on....
That's what freedom of speech is all about.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and I have the freedom to say i don't think it's right to slag someone who you don't know. It's just the way i was raised.

 

[PapaFrita]

Thankies

 

[marmite]

considering 7 other members of this forum live within a 3 mile radious of me then laugh your ass off all you want i live with one of them my freind.

you were all for voicing your opinion of the so called wonder RW and more or less told the rest of us we dont have world class horses so we cant talk,where did you add into the conversation your as much as a normal level of rider as us???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

you basically intentionally or not made yourself out to sound better than the rest of us and only your opinion counted why else have you had the response you did how many responses have the rest of us had saying we are wrong and should not speak?

well apart from you anyway?

 

[Stella]

Personally, I find Kate's views scary. If we don't do as well in an area as someone else, we can't comment on it. Thank God that is a minority opinion or Western society would be in more trouble than it is already

Oh and Pie, I'm with you hun, but did you have to include Richard? I defend your right to express your opinion, but I do feel a little wounded ... !

 

[Christmas_Kate]

so WHERE did I say that I am a much better rider? again, back up what you say.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, and I have the freedom to say i don't think it's right to slag someone who you don't know. It's just the way i was raised.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course you have the same right as everyone else to express your opinion AND you have the right to disagree with the content of the opinion.
ie; You can disagree and say RW is a splendid rider BUT you can't tell someone they can't say something you consider tactless or unfair.
There are good ways and bad ways of criticising people; some are gentler than others, but unless there is something very, very wrong with what someone is saying (for instance if they support Nazism, which is unquestionably an atrocity) then the best you can do is give a counterarguement supporting why you believe the opposite.
Incidentally, I've not given an opinion either way about RW purely because I've only seen about 3 minutes of him riding on a DVD. However, on this DVD it took him 3 goes to hit the right spot before the fence... I reckon I could do better

(a bit of humour, by the way!)

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I find Kate's views scary. If we don't do as well in an area as someone else, we can't comment on it. Thank God that is a minority opinion or Western society would be in more trouble than it is already

Oh and Pie, I'm with you hun, but did you have to include Richard? I defend your right to express your opinion, but I do feel a little wounded ... !

[/ QUOTE ]

My opinion isnt scary!!

Is it so scary to say...you shouldnt slag people off for doing something you can't do yourself? People soon get uptight when a non riding judge judges at a show.

That was my opinion. I do not have world class horses, i ride like a bag of shite compared to alot of people, therefore, I don't critisise others.

 

[marmite]

by the fact you implied the rest of us dont ride to that level we had no right to talk yet you voiced it loud and clear you think RW is the best thing to hit the equine world and we couldnt say we dont respect him as a rider.
You openly expressed the fact you seem to know he rides all theese different horses day in day out ect so he must be doing something right.
For gods sake i ride 2 horses both buckers one is the most awkward horse to jump in the world.
I dont pretend i could take jay or warlock to olympia next year does that mean i dont know what im talking about?No it dosent.

So again you back up where you did not imply you were better than the rest of us?????????????????????????????

you were first to say NONE OF YOU RIDE TO THAT LEVEL.

but where did you say NEITHER DO I?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

double standards you know no more than the rest of us but seem to think your opinion that you seem to think we talk crap should be taken on board when in fact your no fantastic high level rider yourself.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and Pie, I'm with you hun, but did you have to include Richard? I defend your right to express your opinion, but I do feel a little wounded ... !

[/ QUOTE ]
Goodness; it took me a few minutes to figure out who you were talking to

I think he should stick to RomComs; he's rather good at those

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I find Kate's views scary. If we don't do as well in an area as someone else, we can't comment on it. Thank God that is a minority opinion or Western society would be in more trouble than it is already

Oh and Pie, I'm with you hun, but did you have to include Richard? I defend your right to express your opinion, but I do feel a little wounded ... !

[/ QUOTE ]

My opinion isnt scary!!

Is it so scary to say...you shouldnt slag people off for doing something you can't do yourself? People soon get uptight when a non riding judge judges at a show.


[/ QUOTE ] Yes it is when you say it as frequently and in as many ways as you have. Think freedom of speach, think democracy. These things are more important than whether or not someone is offended.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
by the fact you implied the rest of us dont ride to that level we had no right to talk yet you voiced it loud and clear you think RW is the best thing to hit the equine world and we couldnt say we dont respect him as a rider.
You openly expressed the fact you seem to know he rides all theese different horses day in day out ect so he must be doing something right.
For gods sake i ride 2 horses both buckers one is the most awkward horse to jump in the world.
I dont pretend i could take jay or warlock to olympia next year does that mean i dont know what im talking about?No it dosent.

So again you back up where you did not imply you were better than the rest of us?????????????????????????????

you were first to say NONE OF YOU RIDE TO THAT LEVEL.

but where did you say NEITHER DO I?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

double standards you know no more than the rest of us but seem to think your opinion that you seem to think we talk crap should be taken on board when in fact your no fantastic high level rider yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

marmite, why are you getting so het up?? I can almost see the steam coming out of your ears. God, I love you xxxxxx

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and Pie, I'm with you hun, but did you have to include Richard? I defend your right to express your opinion, but I do feel a little wounded ... !

[/ QUOTE ]
Goodness; it took me a few minutes to figure out who you were talking to

I think he should stick to RomComs; he's rather good at those

[/ QUOTE ] Its possible that I'm not completely concentrating on his acting

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the fact you implied the rest of us dont ride to that level we had no right to talk yet you voiced it loud and clear you think RW is the best thing to hit the equine world and we couldnt say we dont respect him as a rider.
You openly expressed the fact you seem to know he rides all theese different horses day in day out ect so he must be doing something right.
For gods sake i ride 2 horses both buckers one is the most awkward horse to jump in the world.
I dont pretend i could take jay or warlock to olympia next year does that mean i dont know what im talking about?No it dosent.

So again you back up where you did not imply you were better than the rest of us?????????????????????????????

you were first to say NONE OF YOU RIDE TO THAT LEVEL.

but where did you say NEITHER DO I?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

double standards you know no more than the rest of us but seem to think your opinion that you seem to think we talk crap should be taken on board when in fact your no fantastic high level rider yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

marmite, why are you getting so het up?? I can almost see the steam coming out of your ears. God, I love you xxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ] You have made a little steam come out of my ears too, maybe that says more about the points you have made than about us

 

[Christmas_Kate]

Okay, so we have a difference of opinion on it. Isnt that what a debate (which this seems to have turned into) is about? I was simply trying to explain my thoughts on this.

 

[marmite]

you really wish you annoyed me that much god woman you have come across so self opiniated it is horrific and apprently that was my role until tonight.

Where as the rest of us have taken in DIFFERENT opinions and views where have you done that?


And dont say you love me im not loved by anyone.

 

[marmite]

who stella me or kate?

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
who stella me or kate?

[/ QUOTE ] Kate of course

Sorry for any misunderstanding

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the fact you implied the rest of us dont ride to that level we had no right to talk yet you voiced it loud and clear you think RW is the best thing to hit the equine world and we couldnt say we dont respect him as a rider.
You openly expressed the fact you seem to know he rides all theese different horses day in day out ect so he must be doing something right.
For gods sake i ride 2 horses both buckers one is the most awkward horse to jump in the world.
I dont pretend i could take jay or warlock to olympia next year does that mean i dont know what im talking about?No it dosent.

So again you back up where you did not imply you were better than the rest of us?????????????????????????????

you were first to say NONE OF YOU RIDE TO THAT LEVEL.

but where did you say NEITHER DO I?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

double standards you know no more than the rest of us but seem to think your opinion that you seem to think we talk crap should be taken on board when in fact your no fantastic high level rider yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

marmite, why are you getting so het up?? I can almost see the steam coming out of your ears. God, I love you xxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ] You have made a little steam come out of my ears too, maybe that says more about the points you have made than about us

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of the comments made to me by another forum member (or shall i say 3) have, let's just say, "encouraged me"

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
by the fact you implied the rest of us dont ride to that level we had no right to talk yet you voiced it loud and clear you think RW is the best thing to hit the equine world and we couldnt say we dont respect him as a rider.
You openly expressed the fact you seem to know he rides all theese different horses day in day out ect so he must be doing something right.
For gods sake i ride 2 horses both buckers one is the most awkward horse to jump in the world.
I dont pretend i could take jay or warlock to olympia next year does that mean i dont know what im talking about?No it dosent.

So again you back up where you did not imply you were better than the rest of us?????????????????????????????

you were first to say NONE OF YOU RIDE TO THAT LEVEL.

but where did you say NEITHER DO I?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

double standards you know no more than the rest of us but seem to think your opinion that you seem to think we talk crap should be taken on board when in fact your no fantastic high level rider yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

marmite, why are you getting so het up?? I can almost see the steam coming out of your ears. God, I love you xxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ] You have made a little steam come out of my ears too, maybe that says more about the points you have made than about us

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of the comments made to me by another forum member (or shall i say 3) have, let's just say, "encouraged me"

[/ QUOTE ] that was us just expressing an opinion, so does that make your opinions our fault ?

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so we have a difference of opinion on it. Isnt that what a debate (which this seems to have turned into) is about? I was simply trying to explain my thoughts on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry for being old(ish) and senile, but have you actually told us why you think he's not a rubbish rider? (not that I've ever suggested such a thing)
If so, please direct me to post. Thank you

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
you really wish you annoyed me that much god woman you have come across so self opiniated it is horrific and apprently that was my role until tonight.

[/ QUOTE ]
Aww, sweetie, if it makes you feel any better, I think you're VERY opinionated!

I like opinionated people very much

[ QUOTE ]
And dont say you love me im not loved by anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Awwww! I ruv youuuuuuu!!!

 

[Christmas_Kate]

marmite, you are loved by so many, I could never overtake you on the self opinionated front.

And FTR I have actually taken in alot of what was said. And I shall go off to bed and sleep soundly knowing I have thought about your opinions. I hope you shall do the same.

 

[marmite]

look above [or put glasses on] your the one making steam come out of ears god if i worried about 3 forum members i would be pretty sad like i said 3 of us here think your a bit of a one sided idiot and i can have a rough guess whu your forum members are from the user list not rocket science the usual ones who can voice there opinions of me through PM only but dont ever have the balls to PM me and say it again background people who i dare say i do not respect anyway.


and from what you have said you need to be encouraged by a couple of forum friends does that not make you a bully?

 

[Stella]

I have a suspicion that she knows she was wrong, but feels she can't back down without losing face - such is life!

Anyway, it was an interesting debate on both subjects (showjumping and freedom of speach).

 

[marmite]

lol im too opinionated i just hate the fact i get members have told me what your like so it eggs me on funny how theese people never come forward to speak to me themselves have a good idea who they are.


end of day im a mouthy cow and ill say what i think but i will admit when i am wrong and i have done a few times hands up.

But why are people too scared to say to me what they think about me on the open forum or at least PM me i would love to hear what the mystery people have to say.

Im glad you love me babe at least i know your not just been sarcastic when you say it

love you too babes

 

[marmite]

stella babe again are you replying to me or kate RRFLMFAO i love you i think your as dippy as me when you want to be.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

you've lost me, you really have. If there are three of you sat there then surely between you you can read a post??

Marmite, no-one on here has insulted anyone else so why do you feel the need to??

I have no-one I am "talking to" . I don't need to. No-one has pmed you. I don't need to have people on-side or lick a$$ on here.

 

[PapaFrita]

[ QUOTE ]
But why are people too scared to say to me what they think about me on the open forum or at least PM me i would love to hear what the mystery people have to say.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno... but I think I was more like that when I was younger... I was FAR more worried than I am now about people's (good) opinions

[ QUOTE ]
Im glad you love me babe at least i know your not just been sarcastic when you say it

love you too babes

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
stella babe again are you replying to me or kate RRFLMFAO i love you i think your as dippy as me when you want to be.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm talking about Kate! Me dippy .... never

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]


But why are people too scared to say to me what they think about me on the open forum or at least PM me i would love to hear what the mystery people have to say.



[/ QUOTE ]


paranoia. Who is scared of you?