Robert Whitaker

[Christmas_Kate]

I have been gobsmacked at the sheer bitchiness that has gone on in this post.

Not one of us is a perfect rider. There are no hard amd fast rules as to how we should ride, and every rider knows we have to adapt our ways of riding for different horses. So what if RW looks like he's pushing a pram? So what if EW pouts? Spurs, yanking the mouth....these things go on all over the horse world.
Personally I applaud these people for the sheer hard work they put in and the talent they have. Whether you're boprn into horses or not we all know it takes alot of dedication to get into the league the Whitakers are in.

They are successful and have reached the place most horsey people can only dream of, and all people can do is slag them off. Quite frankly it's immature and pure jealousy.

 

[Stella]

Kate - its a discussion, people are entitled to discuss their opinions. The reason it matters if RW hands are 'pram pushing' is because that sets them hard against the horse's mouth! As for there being no hard and fast rules about how people should ride. There should be a general rule that we all try to ride in a way that is comfortable for our horse. There is a lot of bad riding and as you indicate, we all have our faults, but we should at least try and given that these riders are at the top of their profession, shouldn't they be able to do it mostly in a way that is comfortable for the horse? You say "so what ... spurs, yanking in the mouth?" I don't know of a misuse of spurs in SJ, but do you really mean it when you say "so what, yanking in the mouth". It is a live animal, surely you don't think the only thing that matters is winning? Oh, and I am not remotely jealous as I have no wish to do any showjuming!

Marsdon - I take your points, well made and informative. Although would they be like that if trained differently? if not, then of course they may not be able to do the job required and that is a whole other debate.

 

[RunToEarth]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been gobsmacked at the sheer bitchiness that has gone on in this post.

Not one of us is a perfect rider. There are no hard amd fast rules as to how we should ride, and every rider knows we have to adapt our ways of riding for different horses. So what if RW looks like he's pushing a pram? So what if EW pouts? Spurs, yanking the mouth....these things go on all over the horse world.
Personally I applaud these people for the sheer hard work they put in and the talent they have. Whether you're boprn into horses or not we all know it takes alot of dedication to get into the league the Whitakers are in.

They are successful and have reached the place most horsey people can only dream of, and all people can do is slag them off. Quite frankly it's immature and pure jealousy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Took someone brave to say it but thankyou, I agree with you 100%. I realise Rob has his critiques but how can you judge how he rides a horse, until you have got on that horse and felt it going? Likewise Ellen, you see her in the clip today obviously gutted that he had a pole, but generally trying to put a brave face on for the cameras. They are shadowing the most idolised showjumpers in the world, JW is possibly the most well known sjer on the circuit, how hard must it be for Rob to live upto him? You expect them to be so perfect in their style because of this name they carry, but they cant.

 

[viola]

Just came back from Olympia. Saw Ellen on Locarno and have to say not sure where people get their opinions from as all I saw was a rather mature riding! She had one down so didn't go to the jump off but Locarno got lots of patting and praising on the way out of the arena.

 

[Zebedee]

I thought that Robert was brilliant & so brave in the way he rode that horse in the puissance. Having seen Ellen lay down the gauntlet in tonights jump off no-one can deny that she's world class, even though she ended up second there were a lot of top class riders who couldn't begin to come close to her time.
You can't ride at that level just by being called Whittaker & having good horses.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

Stella...I am not saying that the misuse of spurs or yanking a horse in the mouth is okay, far from it, and my point is that we ride different horses differently to suit the horse.

I am just amazed at how quickly people can judge other's riding, yet aren't so perfect themselves. On HHO there are some fab riders, but the likes of the Whitakers have some of the best training and the best horses and we have 'normal' riders basically saying they are bad riders!
I am well aware that people are entitled to their opinions but how would you feel if someone said you were a bad rider? On a public forum? Robert and Ellen may be 'famous' but they are still humans and as Ellen shows with her 'pout' still have feelings.

 

[Skhosu]

They are going to get comments, it's a fact. I don't think it's jealousy, not on my part as I have no desire to compete at top level SJ, I could happily discuss how good other riders are. We have every right to say what we feel.
Yes, I know my own faults, and I think we can all learn from the top riders.
But I stand by what I said. They are an example, yes it is their livlihood but just because something happens doesn't mean it should.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

I agree that they are an example, and no-one advocates any rider misusing spurs etc, but no matter how much anyone slags them off, they are still damn good riders and their results prove this. If they were bad riders they wouldnt be sj-ing at that level.

 

[Skhosu]

I am amazed that people are saying they are all wonderful and unless you compete at that level you can't comment...
sorry, but I can see just as well as anyone else when there is unnecessary force used.
When that guy hit his horse round the head at the hickstead derby was it, that's ok because he's at that level is it?
I have to say I think a lot of the foreign ones ride very nicely, some obviously don't.

 

[Skhosu]

Well, all I'm doing is commenting on their behaviour, they have faults as riders, but so does everyone, they just get picked up more as more people are watching them.
It is their behaviour that concerns me in general.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
I am amazed that people are saying they are all wonderful and unless you compete at that level you can't comment...
sorry, but I can see just as well as anyone else when there is unnecessary force used.
When that guy hit his horse round the head at the hickstead derby was it, that's ok because he's at that level is it?
I have to say I think a lot of the foreign ones ride very nicely, some obviously don't.

[/ QUOTE ]


BUT we're not talking about the prat at the Hickstead Derby are we?
IF Ellen and Robert had caused their horses pain or injury then I cannot believe they would still be allowed to ride at Olympia can you?
No-one is saying they are perfect, they're not, but they're still very young riders compared other riders in the event and I think they do damn well on difficult horses and difficult courses. Just like us, they still have alot to learn.
My mother always said "don't call someone for something you can't do yourself". How true.

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
I am amazed that people are saying they are all wonderful and unless you compete at that level you can't comment...
sorry, but I can see just as well as anyone else when there is unnecessary force used.
When that guy hit his horse round the head at the hickstead derby was it, that's ok because he's at that level is it?
I have to say I think a lot of the foreign ones ride very nicely, some obviously don't.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree. Also when people are at the level of doing something for a living and being at the top of their profession, there are open to constructive criticism and it is not the same thing as criticising 'on a public forum' the riding of a private person. The work of Lawyers, Doctors, Psychologists, Journalists, Singers, Dancers etc (including me and you) are open to the criticism and comment of others and this should be no different for professional riders. Infact since there is an animal involved who doesn't have much say, maybe it applies even more to professional riders!

 

[Skhosu]

Ah, but we're still allowed to say we don't like them!

'IF Ellen and Robert had caused their horses pain or injury then I cannot believe they would still be allowed to ride at Olympia can you?'
on the pain bit, easily. Riders get away with a lot at all levels. although I have to say I have never seen either misuse spurs/whip.
Anyway, I've said my part so I'll just back off quietly.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. Also when people are at the level of doing something for a living and being at the top of their profession, there are open to constructive criticism and it is not the same thing as criticising 'on a public forum' the riding of a private person. The work of Lawyers, Doctors, Psychologists, Journalists, Singers, Dancers etc (including me and you) are open to the criticism and comment of others and this should be no different for professional riders. Infact since there is an animal involved who doesn't have much say, maybe it applies even more to professional riders!

[/ QUOTE ]

so, if you were a proffesional rider, would you be happy to have people slag you off?? Or do you just turn into a robot with no feelings??
If the horse was unhappy with the way in which it was ridden it would make it's feelings known.

 

[teapot]

Look at the coverage PF got after her outburst at Badminton, and the reaction of people on here to her riding into that jump.

Think in any profession people will be slated for whatever they do.

 

[buckybee]

But why are you allowed to say that? do you konw them?? Have you met them??

I don't understand people on here some times. when you're jumping BIG, no matter how good your horse is, you've still got to be a bloody good rider and have a conection with your horse or they wouldn't do it!! They have to have a lot of trust that no whips or spurs can produce. I would like to see half the people who have been slagging roberts riding off try and get round a world cup qualifier. no didn't think so.

 

[marmite]

as a rider i do not rate him at all some of the footage i have seen of him over the past few days has said to me his horses help him out alot i think he has a horrid and unconsistant jumping position he kinds of stands up straight then jacks his bum out at last moment.
May be me but i dont see him fold over a fence i really dont rate him as a rider at all.

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree. Also when people are at the level of doing something for a living and being at the top of their profession, there are open to constructive criticism and it is not the same thing as criticising 'on a public forum' the riding of a private person. The work of Lawyers, Doctors, Psychologists, Journalists, Singers, Dancers etc (including me and you) are open to the criticism and comment of others and this should be no different for professional riders. Infact since there is an animal involved who doesn't have much say, maybe it applies even more to professional riders!

[/ QUOTE ]

so, if you were a proffesional rider, would you be happy to have people slag you off?? Or do you just turn into a robot with no feelings??
If the horse was unhappy with the way in which it was ridden it would make it's feelings known.

[/ QUOTE ] Oh for hevans sake, I'd expect criticism, some of it fair, some of it not fair. Thats what professional life is like!! Feeling are irrelevant to this arguement, when you are at the top of a profession, the adage "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen applies". If someone criticises an aspect of my work, I may not like it, it may even hurt my feelings, but I have to ask myself if there is anything in it, and if I feel I should learn from it. If I believe there is no foundation to the criticism, I put it aside and move on, but I don't say they have no right to criticise my work! If you work, I'm guessing you have to accept that others have a right to have an opinion on it! My daughter is a Journalist and she is just in her early 20s, if someone criticises her work, she would probably be more easily upset by it than when she is older and wiser, but that doesn't mean no one should comment in case it hurts her feelings - the same applies to professional showjumpers. After all, the comments on this thread are all about their work, not their figures or their noses! Its all perfectly appropriate!

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]
But why are you allowed to say that? do you konw them?? Have you met them??

I don't understand people on here some times. when you're jumping BIG, no matter how good your horse is, you've still got to be a bloody good rider and have a conection with your horse or they wouldn't do it!! They have to have a lot of trust that no whips or spurs can produce. I would like to see half the people who have been slagging roberts riding off try and get round a world cup qualifier. no didn't think so.

[/ QUOTE ]


*applauds buckybee* THANKYOU!! Someone has some common sense!

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]




[/ QUOTE ] Oh for hevans sake, I'd expect criticism, some of it fair, some of it not fair. Thats what professional life is like!! Feeling are irrelevant to this arguement, when you are at the top of a profession, the adage "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen applies". If someone criticises an aspect of my work, I may not like it, it may even hurt my feelings, but I have to ask myself if there is anything in it, and if I feel I should learn from it. If I believe there is no foundation to the criticism, I put it aside and move on, but I don't say they have no right to criticise my work! If you work, I'm guessing you have to accept that others have a right to have an opinion on it! My daughter is a Journalist and she is just in her early 20s, if someone criticises her work, she would probably be more easily upset by it than when she is older and wiser, but that doesn't mean no one should comment in case it hurts her feelings - the same applies to professional showjumpers. After all, the comments on this thread are all about their work, not their figures or their noses! Its all perfectly appropriate!

[/ QUOTE ]

I just happen to think you should only criticise when you know how to do something properly. If you can't do it yourself don't comment. I can't ride dressage, therefore I don't comment on it.

 

[marmite]

yes all true but there are time the horse is better than the rider and helps them out alot.

 

[buckybee]

what do you think of this jumping position then;


http://www.rockwoodharriers.co.uk/photos/gallery1/2005_0304dayboxing0040www.jpg

tehe, at least he can have a laugh!!

 

[marmite]

I just happen to think you should only criticise when you know how to do something properly. If you can't do it yourself don't comment. I can't ride dressage, therefore I don't comment on it.

[/ QUOTE ]


i totally agree with that i know jack all about dressage personally find in a snooze fest but SJ i am passionate about.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

yep, and sometimes rider better than horse. Who hasnt ridden a horse better than themselves? It's how we learn.

 

[marmite]

lol that is funny looks like an equine version of boogie nights or something i do like that though lmao

 

[Christmas_Kate]

[ QUOTE ]

I just happen to think you should only criticise when you know how to do something properly. If you can't do it yourself don't comment. I can't ride dressage, therefore I don't comment on it.

[/ QUOTE ]


i totally agree with that i know jack all about dressage personally find in a snooze fest but SJ i am passionate about.

[/ QUOTE ]

can you do Sj at whitaker level??

 

[Onyxia]

(Quick reply)
Maybe he isnt the most stylish rider in the world, so what?
To do what he does day in day out the horses have to WANT to work for him- if his hands were causing pain or discomfort they simply wouldnt.
I was always taught efective is far more important then pretty.

ETS, and so what if EW gets angry/pouts when she doesnt win? I dont like to lose, why should anyone?IF she left the ring beating the horse then object away, as long as she is angry at herself for not doing as well as she could have it is IMHO a good thig- it spurs us on to do better next time.

 

[marmite]

oh yeah im not arguing that at all im only saying as a rider i really dont rate him i feel with the whole family they can feed from the last name they share and big things are expected of them.
I never really followed ellen until this past week and i think she deserved it but from watching him he has no pressence on a horse like ellen and i certainly would not want to adopt a jumping position like his.
Sorry just my opinion i really dont think he looks that great or tidy over a fence inbetween great but over a fence he looks tense and clumsy.

 

[Stella]

Kate "I just happen to think you should only criticise when you know how to do something properly. If you can't do it yourself don't comment. I can't ride dressage, therefore I don't comment on it."
Well, IMHO that is utter rubbish, should people never comment upon or criticise the work of Doctors, Lawyers, Politicians etc because they aren't qualified to do their jobs? Should a person never say they don't like the voice of a singer because they can't sing?

 

[Christmas_Kate]

But, he gets the horse over, and in one piece, and he rides different horses all day long, there must be something right eh?
SJ isnt dressage, it doesnt have to be neat, it's about teamwork, trust, and skill.