Rosette stealers !!!!!

[minesadouble]

I do think this thread shows a lot of lack of understanding of showing to be honest. We show to a high level ourselves and also use local shows as experience for novices. I also run three 'big' local, unaffiliated shows per year.

With regard to the kiddies we have a ring running most of the day which is dedicated to under tens, all classes are L/R or F/R or a combination of the two. If a child competes in that ring they are then not permitted to ride in any open ridden classes at that show.

With regard to 'pot hunters' I hear this a lot. We have quite a few local competitors who come to our shows and are always highly placed. I've heard people saying they shouldn't ride at our shows as they compete at County level. However a pony/horse which comes to our show and looks real quality still may not be good enough to stand up in top class company, they may look stunning in the company they have at an unaffiliated show but stick them in a HOYS qualifier and they would be propping up the bottom of the line. Those who compete at our shows but also compete at County level may think themselves lucky to return from a County Show with a 5th place rosette.
We have also had a section B at our show who had been placed at the Royal International. However said pony had subsequently nashed off with his jockey and given her a massive fright - they came to our show in the hope of a confidence builder. I have no objection at all to such riders competing at our shows.

What looks like a top class animal to a 'layman' is often totally outclassed at bigger shows. Just because someone has turned their horse out well, makes the best of the animal they have and has all the 'right' gear should not preclude them from competing at local level.

 

[ester]

Oh and it is hard enough work without policing who is doing what!

 

[conniegirl]

As to adults, the combination can not enter the class once they have won it once, at local level this should be pretty easy to police unless you get someone from outside the area, but simple question on the entry form, 'has this combination won in any affiliated competition?' perhaps would make them think.

hmm ok then what happens if like one lady I know she took her young horse out to its first ever show and her first ever show. she was the only one in the novice class so won by default. by your rules her and her 4yr old baby would then no longer be able to do the novice classes ever again. Thats like saying you did the prelim 1 test, it was a total disaster and you scored 30% but because you are the only entry you got a red rosette and now you must do the novice dressage tests!

Oh and for RC clubs that run a points system for end of year trophies the novice class would be a nightmare!

For those who say good competitors shouldnt be allowed at local level
Yes I take my young horse out to local shows, he is a very nice young horse who also does the affiliated novice classes and affiliated opens, we have even done a couple of HOYS qualifiers and I've been showing for over 20 years. But you know what, he needs the time in the ring, we often have an issue to work through that can only be worked through at a show even if you cant see it whilst watching from the ring side, it could be that he has decided that galloping in a group is a good excuse to lose the plot or that judges with hats on are terrifying or my last one was that every horse on the show ground was his best friend and he couldn't possibly ever go away from them even if he had never met them before (doesn't do it at home its a security thing so the more I get him out the better he gets).
there is also the fact that a lot of people cant afford the £50+ per class entry fees at a lot of county shows.

 

[fatpiggy]

Why should compete at a higher level they if they don't want to .
In my book if a class is 'open ' it's open if you don't like that don't go .
What they get out of it is up to them .
I just don't understand your attitude to this all at all but I know it exists because it is what stops me going to shows for fun .

You could argue, why keep climbing the same mountain, year on year? Not everyone wants to be particularly competitive or ambitious, I understand that, and may be happy working at a particular level, but in that case, why not say, right I've done that on X, lets have a go at something new. Or go HC if you just want to take part "for the fun of it". Most small shows are more interested in maximizing their income I think and aren't going to refuse the entry money for HC!

 

[pennyturner]

It works both ways. We ruffled a few feathers a couple of years ago by turning up at a local show with 3 of our hairy scruffies (including Buster the one-balled stallion, who was a saint throughout). We fancied doing a few gymkhana games, and wondered how they'd get on.

Turns out our ponies quite enjoy games.
When we came first, second and third, the show-pony types gave us some very dirty looks.

 

[conniegirl]

You could argue, why keep climbing the same mountain, year on year? Not everyone wants to be particularly competitive or ambitious, I understand that, and may be happy working at a particular level, but in that case, why not say, right I've done that on X, lets have a go at something new. Or go HC if you just want to take part "for the fun of it". Most small shows are more interested in maximizing their income I think and aren't going to refuse the entry money for HC!

Why should they have to go HC? they pay the same money as everyone else and sometimes people are comfortable doing what they are doing and enjoy it. sometimes they dont want to try something new, they may not jump, they may not want to go fast (games) they may not feel comfortable going any higher and why should they have to?
Personaly I've climbed snowdon 5 times in the last year, why? because I enjoy the walk. not because its a challenge or difficult but because I can have a lovely walk, a natter with friends and enjoy the view from the top. so tell me why should I go climb some other mountain?

 

[Goldenstar]

Why should they have to go HC? they pay the same money as everyone else and sometimes people are comfortable doing what they are doing and enjoy it. sometimes they dont want to try something new, they may not jump, they may not want to go fast (games) they may not feel comfortable going any higher and why should they have to?
Personaly I've climbed snowdon 5 times in the last year, why? because I enjoy the walk. not because its a challenge or difficult but because I can have a lovely walk, a natter with friends and enjoy the view from the top. so tell me why should I go climb some other mountain?

I think that puts it very nicely .

 

[pip6]

Whilst endurance has plenty of issues at FEI level (& let's be honest here, there is no horse 'sport' including showing, SJ etc that does not have cruelty issues - no defence, but let's spread the problems as they exist everywhere), at affiliated level novice & open, where you enter graded rides against the clock and course, there are very few problems. It is immensely friendly, as you are not competing against the other riders but the set parameters and the course, so say if everyone finished well enough to get a grade 1, they would indeed all get a grade one. It takes a lot of the nastiness I see at shows out of the day and everyone genuinely supports each other. If you have qualified to upgade, you can ride at a lower level HC. So say I ride my advanced horse, and I'm advanced (I am), I can enter a novice class HC and none of the novice combinations loose out. Lower combinations are not allowed to enter a higher level until they have qualified for it. Also if you never want to increase the distance you ride, you don't have to. Even the minimum distance of 30km has an advanced class, indeed all distances up to 50km cater for all 3 levels, to ride further you need to move up the grades. This is done to ensure combinations have enough experience to cope with the increasing distances.

I used to go around local shows with a pony SJ. You get as many pot hunters in there depriving youngsters trying their best from what they may achieve. I've also witnessed terrible parents threatening to sell a childs loved but very expensively ready schooled bought to win pony because she came second in a class not first. It's not all kids chasing rosettes, I find many adults are worse. There should be a set of novice sj classes where they can't enter the intermediate or open classes. If they want experience, use the clear round. Maybe they could do the same at dressage shows, have a 'clear round' with a choice of 2 tests (one harder than other), and you enter in turn to be judged. No placings or prizes, just a judges opinion on how you are doing.

When I was SJ I went to a show at Newbury, the big showground. I'd not done any classes on the pony, but knew what she could do from home work. We entered a 2'3" novice (at 13.2 she was much smaller than my arabs so took getting used to) and the 2'9" intermediate. The latter was running hours late as they took so many entries on the day and didn't limit them, so we only ended up doing the 2'3. There were few clears due to some spooky fillers, and we went near the end. Pony was only the fourth clear, so we would have be certain on a place, & I'd seen nothing that would match her speed (wizzy welsh c). I opted not to do the jump off, as I felt it was unfair on the other entrants. They deserved the prizes, I already knew what the pony could do. I explained this to the ring steward, and they were gobsmacked. I still think I did the right thing. Pony ended up winning the unaff warm up class at the local aff show regularly (3'3" so big enough for a little pony ridden by an adult), which I thought was fair game as their horses could jump bigger than her, so she was having to work hard to win. We practised at home in a field with two barrels and two poles, nothing else. They used to try and intimidate us (riding much larger horses) in the warm up, but she was so good nothing got to her.

 

[ester]

I think that is not that different to other affiliated disciplines where there is a record so everyone knows where they should be .

 

[sultana]

Why should compete at a higher level they if they don't want to .
In my book if a class is 'open ' it's open if you don't like that don't go .
What they get out of it is up to them .
I just don't understand your attitude to this all at all but I know it exists because it is what stops me going to shows for fun .

As I said in my post - 'each to their own.' And - if the rosettes make them happy so be it' I don't have an 'attitude' just voicing my opinion and wondering why they don't want to progress further - but its up to them - they are vile people anyway|!!! Ha Ha!!

 

[WelshD]

Sometimes I think local show judges do not always do the right thing. an example would be someone who put a hairy cob in a show cob class, there is one 'real' show cob so the hairy comes second because its the best presented of the rest. that person then thinks they are the best thing since sliced bread, go to a 'step up' show such as Equifest, fail miserably and then complain forever more about the injustice of showing. the judge in the first class should have said something to them or withheld the qualification but I guess that is not in the spirit of a local show and its a case of you're damned if you do damned if you don't and the competitor should really have done their homework - its not like the information isn't easily accessible - there is no mystery to showing at local levels really

people seem desperate to shoehorn their mount in to a 'type' when in fact its not got a niche - how many times do we see on here 'is it a riding horse or hunter?' ummmm its neither

Misunderstandings seem order of the day - no your childs pony is not a 'childrens riding pony' just because the child rides it, no your pony isn't a working hunter pony because they have done six seasons hunting, no your pony isn't a show hunter pony because its too fat for show pony classes and cannot jump

As for good ponies at local shows, why shouldn't they have some fun too? some of these kids spend August practically living in a horsebox, a local show may be them meeting with friends for some unpressurised fun. There are two HOYS ponies that feature regularly at our local show, they are the ones to beat (and they don't always win) and NOT the ones to hate

 

[Goldenstar]

Whilst endurance has plenty of issues at FEI level (& let's be honest here, there is no horse 'sport' including showing, SJ etc that does not have cruelty issues - no defence, but let's spread the problems as they exist everywhere), at affiliated level novice & open, where you enter graded rides against the clock and course, there are very few problems. It is immensely friendly, as you are not competing against the other riders but the set parameters and the course, so say if everyone finished well enough to get a grade 1, they would indeed all get one. It takes a lot of the nastiness I see at shows out of the day and everyone genuinely supports each other. If you have qualified to upgade, you can ride at a lower level HC. So say I ride my advanced horse, and I'm advanced (I am), I can enter a novice class HC and none of the novice combinations loose out. Lower combinations are not allowed to enter a higher level until they have qualified for it.

I used to go around local shows with a pony SJ. You get as many pot hunters in there depriving youngsters trying their best from what they may achieve. I've also witnessed terrible parents threatening to sell a childs loved but very expensively ready schooled bought to win pony because she came second in a class not first. It's not all kids chasing rosettes, I find many adults are worse. There should be a set of novice sj classes where they can't enter the intermediate or open classes. If they want experience, use the clear round. Maybe they could do the same at dressage shows, have a 'clear round' with a choice of 2 tests (one harder than other), and you enter in turn to be judged. No placings or prizes, just a judges opinion on how you are doing.

When I was SJ I went to a show at Newbury, the big showground. I'd not done any classes on the pony, but knew what she could do from home work. We entered a 2'3" novice (at 13.2 she was much smaller than my arabs so took getting used to) and the 2'9" intermediate. The latter was running hours late as they took so many entries on the day and didn't limit them, so we only ended up doing the 2'3. There were few clears due to some spooky fillers, and we went near the end. Pony was only the fourth clear, so we would have be certain on a place, & I'd seen nothing that would match her speed (wizzy welsh c). I opted not to do the jump off, as I felt it was unfair on the other entrants. They deserved the prizes, I already knew what the pony could do. I explained this to the ring steward, and they were gobsmacked. I still think I did the right thing. Pony ended up winning the unaff warm up class at the local aff show regularly (3'3" so big enough for a little pony ridden by an adult), which I thought was fair game as their horses could jump bigger than her, so she was having to work hard to win. We practised at home in a field with two barrels and two poles, nothing else. They used to try and intimidate us (riding much larger horses) in the warm up, but she was so good nothing got to her.

I can't see why anyone qualified to be in a class would deprive anyone from doing their best .
Not riding your best is down to you no one else if winning is the reason the ride your best and if you think you can't win you don't ride your best that down to a lack in you and isn't it supposed to be fun surely a day out with your horse is enjoyable if the horse has gone well you have had a laugh seen people watched horses etc etc.
Why should people at the unaffiliated level not enjoy competition at a level they are happy at ?
It's not up to anyone else to judge their motives .
If your horse has gone well you did whatever you where doing in a harmonious and happy way and it the best performance you could turn in you have not lost because another horse got the frilly to take home .
Your performance remains the same win or lose .

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I do think this thread shows a lot of lack of understanding of showing to be honest.

What looks like a top class animal to a 'layman' is often totally outclassed at bigger shows. Just because someone has turned their horse out well, makes the best of the animal they have and has all the 'right' gear should not preclude them from competing at local level.

Totally agree with the above ^

 

[blood_magik]

As to adults, the combination can not enter the class once they have won it once, at local level this should be pretty easy to police unless you get someone from outside the area, but simple question on the entry form, 'has this combination won in any affiliated competition?' perhaps would make them think.

My understanding of this was that it applies to combinations that have won the previous season.
For example, I'm showing one of my horses at grass roots level this year - because he's won his classes, and been reserve and champion, he'll not be allowed to compete at grass roots next year.

 

[PaddyMonty]

If competitors aren't breaking the rules for the class then it's up to them if they go with the spirit of the class.
When I was competing Aff SJ I would often enter a lower height open than the class I wanted to compete in as the prize money helped with the diesel.
I entered an unaff prelim on a horse I'd placed 9th at BD reqionals the weekend before. Owner of horse had originally entered for herself on her other unaff horse but he went lame. Venue said she could swap entries but not get refund so I took the horse I competed for her.
Nothing in the rules against it and yep we won both tests by some margin but interestingly the only person I heard grumble about it was the person who had been consistently winning the prelims for the last 18 months. Venue did suggest that I shouldn't bring the boy to the championship we had just qualified for though. I wouldn't have done anyway as the day didn't give me any satisfaction, the owner just wanted to go competing so we went with what we had available.

 

[Nancykitt]

As I said in my post - 'each to their own.' And - if the rosettes make them happy so be it' I don't have an 'attitude' just voicing my opinion and wondering why they don't want to progress further - but its up to them - they are vile people anyway|!!! Ha Ha!!

I'm with you on this - especially with the dressage. I thought the whole point of dressage was that it was structured to develop horse and rider through the different levels. Personally, if I was wiping the board at Prelim I'd want to be moving on up, even if it meant I wasn't automatically getting the red rosette. But yes, each to their own.

 

[ahorseandadog]

That's why I adore those competitions: 'Best Rider Under 12' or 'Best Teenage Rider (13-18)'

 

[conniegirl]

As I said in my post - 'each to their own.' And - if the rosettes make them happy so be it' I don't have an 'attitude' just voicing my opinion and wondering why they don't want to progress further - but its up to them - they are vile people anyway|!!! Ha Ha!!

So because someone doesnt want to progress it makes them a vile person?
I think the only vile thing here is your attitude to those who are not ultra competative like you. people are sometime happy where they are and do not want to progress further, it can be for many many reasons one of which is a simple desire to stick within thier comfort zone. It does not make them vile people, it makes them human and the only vile ones are those that call them vile!

 

[Nancykitt]

So because someone doesnt want to progress it makes them a vile person?
I think the only vile thing here is your attitude to those who are not ultra competative like you. people are sometime happy where they are and do not want to progress further, it can be for many many reasons one of which is a simple desire to stick within thier comfort zone. It does not make them vile people, it makes them human and the only vile ones are those that call them vile!

My reading of this post was that sultana was referring to specific people that were known to her, not implying that everyone in this position is 'vile'.

 

[Goldenstar]

That's why I adore those competitions: 'Best Rider Under 12' or 'Best Teenage Rider (13-18)'

Me too but the makeup takes me hours to apply .

 

[Nancykitt]

Me too but the makeup takes me hours to apply .

Hahaha! The sad thing about my riding is that I would almost certainly be beaten by anyone eligible for those classes!
The only class I've ever won at a show was called 'Wrinklies' Equitation - novice riders 25 and over.' As there was also a 'senior equitation' class, there were no serious showing riders at all in Wrinklies. I did enjoy it and I have to say that some of the judges were wonderful and gave me lots of confidence, just in my general riding. I'm not good enough to go any further in competition but I'm happy to be doing what I'm doing now, which is hacking and hunting.
However, if I was any good at showing and/or dressage I'd like to try and move up rather than stick to the same local show.

 

[gmw]

Love this thread evoked soooo many memories. The 'lady' that used to ask how many were entered in a class if it was less than however many rosettes were handed out she wold enter so she was guaranteed a rosette. Another who regularly used to cut up when steward called competitors in. If the steward or judge were not sharp enough she would place herself up a few places up. Another was most put out when it was pointed out that the 'cup' would only be given to a paid member of the club. I was thrown the membership fee from a great distance and advised she was now a fully paid up member of the club. I politely pointed out that she was not a member of the club at the time of the competition so not eligible to have the 'cup'. Exit with great huffing and puffing of one fully paid up member of club. God why did I do it every Sunday for years.
Simple because of the sweet kids and novice riders that came with their precious pony
or horse and came to thank me at the end of the day. I always used to say it was my pleasure. Some of those kids went on to do affiliated and one is now an international rider.

 

[Snowy Celandine]

Me too but the makeup takes me hours to apply .

You are funny - in a good way

 

[siennamum]

I suppose that everyone competes for different reasons. If you have a horse who is very good at a local level but not good enough to do well at County then you will stick to local level.

I judge sometimes and the same combinations win year after year. So long as they are eligible then I can't see the problem.

In the same position with my mare I stopped showing and did something else. She could go out every week and win at local shows and small agricultural level but personally if there's no sense of achievement then it's pointless.

I know proper 'pot hunters' (especially those who compete in low key dressage events on good affiliated horses) and I wonder why they don't just buy themselves a pack of rosettes, it would be cheaper, and a lot less effort - you could award yourself a sash then also.

 

[burtie]

I suppose that everyone competes for different reasons. If you have a horse who is very good at a local level but not good enough to do well at County then you will stick to local level.

I judge sometimes and the same combinations win year after year. So long as they are eligible then I can't see the problem.

In the same position with my mare I stopped showing and did something else. She could go out every week and win at local shows and small agricultural level but personally if there's no sense of achievement then it's pointless.

I know proper 'pot hunters' (especially those who compete in low key dressage events on good affiliated horses) and I wonder why they don't just buy themselves a pack of rosettes, it would be cheaper, and a lot less effort - you could award yourself a sash then also.

This! I have also wondered why they don't just buy there own! Seems a lot of effort to achieve the same thing weekend over and over!

 

[DragonSlayer]

. There should be a set of novice sj classes where they can't enter the intermediate or open classes. If they want experience, use the clear round. Maybe they could do the same at dressage shows, have a 'clear round' with a choice of 2 tests (one harder than other), and you enter in turn to be judged. No placings or prizes, just a judges opinion on how you are doing.

THIS is what I'd like to see, whether or not people think I'm ignorant of the rules or whatever. IMO it makes it fair, but then....that's just my opinion.

 

[ester]

does that not negate the fact that it is a competition then !?!

 

[DragonSlayer]

Why does it do that? If you enter novice and intermediate, or intermediate and open, you still have competition don't you? Not saying this has to be the norm everywhere and all the time, just to even things out a bit.

 

[conniegirl]

I think she ment the whole no placings no prizes clear round idea

 

[DragonSlayer]

I think she ment the whole no placings no prizes clear round idea

Ah! Doh! Silly me, apologies!