RSPCA originally formed by pro hunt Conservative MP

[Moomin1]

I think he was responding to Moomin's hysterical comment about not hunting with any hounds and just going for a glorified hack...

See, that proves the point doesn't it?

People harp on saying that hunts are not about the tearing apart of foxes, but purely about the ride and freedom of the countryside.

Yet when suggested that perhaps leave the hounds at home in order to ensure no 'accidents' take place, everyone is up in arms saying that it would be pointless and 'a glorified hack'.

So which is it? Either you hunt for the pleasure of pursuing and killing a fox with hounds, or you hunt for the pleasure of riding the freedom of the countryside and a damn good day out with friends?

 

[SarahColeman]

Nerve struck well and true because I dared mention the hounds killed by hunts?! Now all of a sudden accused by at least three posters of being friends with/part of the anti/sabbing movement. Please do get over yourselves I am an individual and make my own choices whilst always acting in sensible manner and will neither accept blame nor deflect it from those who deserve it!!!

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Good, I'm glad people are fighting back. I'm not involved in hunting but the way the anti's behave is nothing short of terrorism. Perhaps hunting folk should wear balaclavas and carry a shot gun each

In the interests of fair play, as the pro-hunting lobby like to portray themselves as victims, I just started looking at a list of the criminal convictions of hunt members, hunt staff and supporters and I'm totally shocked. In fact only read part of the list because guilty verdicts of indecent assault on a female hunt monitor by the master of the Cotswold Vale, a couple of incidences where old ladies had broken bones, men being attacked with scythes (yes, really ) and countless assaults on cars, beatings to people heads, being whipped, police officers being assaulted by huntsmen etc etc.
Just begs the question, are there any hunts out there that have not had members or supporters convicted of violent crimes ?

Dear old Anthony Kirkham deserves a medal from the CA for the amount of convictions he's obtained in promoting the cause. Even attacks police officers. Nice.

I think after reading some of this incredibly long list, the hunt monitors are pussy cats in comparison.


+

 

[SarahColeman]

How you can make such a statement when your friends have called hounds across a public highway, with fatal results, would stretch credulity. It begs the question whether they were your friends, or you're actually part of their movement.

The behaviour and stance of those who you seem to support, is such that I'd have thought that any caring person would feel just a little embarrassed. Perhaps you feel no sense of shame.

Why anyone considers you worthy of discussion, is beyond me, and you'd be right, I don't!

Again, Good night.

Alec.

It is lunch time just open the curtains "your friends" "your friends"?? How dare you even attempt to tar me with this brush! And no I do not suppose anybody who posts facts about hunting that you may not like but can not distort is worthy of discussion. Run away and hide.

 

[combat_claire]

See, that proves the point doesn't it?

People harp on saying that hunts are not about the tearing apart of foxes, but purely about the ride and freedom of the countryside.

Yet when suggested that perhaps leave the hounds at home in order to ensure no 'accidents' take place, everyone is up in arms saying that it would be pointless and 'a glorified hack'.

So which is it? Either you hunt for the pleasure of pursuing and killing a fox with hounds, or you hunt for the pleasure of riding the freedom of the countryside and a damn good day out with friends?

I think you will find that Countryman, Hunters and myself amongst others have all been consistent in saying that our pleasure in hunting has been about watching the hounds work - whether that be a trail, flushing to a bird of prey or pre-ban hunting a quarry. If we did as Moomin suggested and removed the hounds from the equation then there would be very little worth paying my foot followers subscription for.

 

[SarahColeman]

In the interests of fair play, as the pro-hunting lobby like to portray themselves as victims, I just started looking at a list of the criminal convictions of hunt members, hunt staff and supporters and I'm totally shocked. In fact only read part of the list because guilty verdicts of indecent assault on a female hunt monitor by the master of the Cotswold Vale, a couple of incidences where old ladies had broken bones, men being attacked with scythes (yes, really ) and countless assaults on cars, beatings to people heads, being whipped, police officers being assaulted by huntsmen etc etc.
Just begs the question, are there any hunts out there that have not had members or supporters convicted of violent crimes ?

Dear old Anthony Kirkham deserves a medal from the CA for the amount of convictions he's obtained in promoting the cause. Even attacks police officers. Nice.

I think after reading some of this incredibly long list, the hunt monitors are pussy cats in comparison.


+

Do you mean Alec's 'friends', are violent thugs and abusers of women?

 

[SarahColeman]

See, that proves the point doesn't it?

People harp on saying that hunts are not about the tearing apart of foxes, but purely about the ride and freedom of the countryside.

Yet when suggested that perhaps leave the hounds at home in order to ensure no 'accidents' take place, everyone is up in arms saying that it would be pointless and 'a glorified hack'.

So which is it? Either you hunt for the pleasure of pursuing and killing a fox with hounds, or you hunt for the pleasure of riding the freedom of the countryside and a damn good day out with friends?

It will not be long before they are leaving the hounds behind by law perhaps.

 

[SarahColeman]

I think you will find that Countryman, Hunters and myself amongst others have all been consistent in saying that our pleasure in hunting has been about watching the hounds work - whether that be a trail, flushing to a bird of prey or pre-ban hunting a quarry. If we did as Moomin suggested and removed the hounds from the equation then there would be very little worth paying my foot followers subscription for.

Oh lord no not the bird of prey smokescreen There are no birds of prey in this country that can humanely and safely kill a fox, any hunt pretending to use one should be firmly monitored for law breaking!

 

[combat_claire]

I think after reading some of this incredibly long list, the hunt monitors are pussy cats in comparison.

Yes complete 'pussy cats'

January 1993 - 5 police officers injured and 25 arrests of hunt saboteurs in Essex
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1474504.html

November 1993 - injunctions for the Fitzwilliam and Portman - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1504580.html

March 1994 - Saboteurs armed with fencing stakes hospitalise four members of the Four Burrow hunt
http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evi...fourburrow.htm

November 1994 - Saboteurs charged with aggravated trespass following at incident at the Woodland Pytchley Hunt
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~maureen/pr1b.html

December 1996 - saboteur arrested after causing a horse to fall onto the master, Whipper in also arrested after hitting saboteur trying to force his horse onto barbed wire

September 2000 - Old Surrey kennels attacked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-staff-attacked-by-40-masked-protesters.html

March 2002 - vehicle driven at hunt supporter - http://www.ashbournenewstelegraph.co.uk/News/Hunt-confrontation.htm

June 2002 - saboteurs carrying hammers and pick axe handles attack the Three Counties Hunt - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competit ... 36173.html

September 2004 - Old Surrey Hunt Kennels held under siege by violent saboteurs who threw stones at humans and hounds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sters.html

October 2004 - Suzanne Amos found guilty of ABH following incident at Quorn Hunt
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/58511.html

December 2006 - Saboteur arrested for carrying an offensive weapon at a meet of the Essex & Suffolk
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/n...2021:31:07:357

March 2009 intimidation by masked protestors ends with arrests http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/arrests-Betchworth-foxhunt/story-12667704-detail/story.html

March 2009 - Trevor Morse killed by monitor in gyrocopter - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...on-murder-quiz-as-aircraft-hits-huntsman.html

September 2009 - Tiff Clelland and David Marriot were charged with public order offences, they were asked to remove the clothing covering their faces and refused becoming verbally abusive to the police who had made the request.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/20...ving_balaclava

February 2011 - pepper spray used to break up violence http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8839...by_police_during_Sussex_hunt_protest_clashes/

March 2011 - 5 saboteurs arrested on suspicion of carrying an offensive weapon
http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co...test-Huntley/story-11867672-detail/story.html

January 2013 - Hunt Kennels attacked and GBH on huntsman http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/392/315607.html

 

[combat_claire]

Oh lord no not the bird of prey smokescreen There are no birds of prey in this country that can humanely and safely kill a fox, any hunt pretending to use one should be firmly monitored for law breaking!

I have a little maxim - better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt! Something you might be wise to consider applying to your own posts.

You simply need to open Youtube and search for 'golden eagle takes fox' - there are hundreds of videos to prove that a golden eagle is capable. We also have hours of footage (not available online) of our hunt's golden eagle with its professional falconer taking foxes, hares and small deer such as muntjacs and roe.

The Act says nothing about the kill via a bird of prey being humane. A huge flaw in the whole of the Act. A kill by an eagle is slower, more gruesome and probably more painful than a kill by hounds ever was.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Oh CC, will you hunt supporters always condone all law breaking and violence by your own people ?

I have never once on here heard any of you question the wrong doings of the hunts.
I find that quite scary and very telling of the lengths they will go to.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I have a little maxim - better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt! Something you might be wise to consider applying to your own posts.

You simply need to open Youtube and search for 'golden eagle takes fox' - there are hundreds of videos to prove that a golden eagle is capable. We also have hours of footage (not available online) of our hunt's golden eagle with its professional falconer taking foxes, hares and small deer such as muntjacs and roe.

The Act says nothing about the kill via a bird of prey being humane. A huge flaw in the whole of the Act. A kill by an eagle is slower, more gruesome and probably more painful than a kill by hounds ever was.

Doesn't the Hawk Board strongly oppose the use of birds to get round the loophole in the law ?

BTW, The Trevor Morse incident found the pilot NOT GUILTY. Mr Morse had blocked the pilot in and called for more hunt supporters. The pilot was in fear of his life having already been shot at while he was in the air, repeatedly asked the man to move and moments later, didn't Ottis Ferry(no stranger to assaults)along with other reinforcements arrive on the scene ?
Don't use that unhappy incident to try and point score. The pilot went through hell.

 

[Moomin1]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventry_warwickshire/8571913.stm

 

[Countryman]

Moomin we know he was found not guilty. But I don't think anybody who after decapitating a fellow human simply says "oh dear the test didn't move out of the way" can be accepted as human really...

In response to the posters saying any hunts using the bird of prey loophole are acting illegally, PLEASE just read the Hunting Act. It says nothing about killing animals, it talks of hunting them. It's legal to flush a focal that a bird of prey can hunt it-that need not ever involve killing.

Otherwise hunts would just try and hunt the US way without ever killing the fox they chased.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I think the poster was referring to hunts using birds as a smokescreen to cover illegal hunting. A quite different point. Read the post again.

 

[Fellewell]

Yes complete 'pussy cats'

January 1993 - 5 police officers injured and 25 arrests of hunt saboteurs in Essex
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1474504.html

November 1993 - injunctions for the Fitzwilliam and Portman - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1504580.html

March 1994 - Saboteurs armed with fencing stakes hospitalise four members of the Four Burrow hunt
http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evi...fourburrow.htm

November 1994 - Saboteurs charged with aggravated trespass following at incident at the Woodland Pytchley Hunt
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~maureen/pr1b.html

December 1996 - saboteur arrested after causing a horse to fall onto the master, Whipper in also arrested after hitting saboteur trying to force his horse onto barbed wire

September 2000 - Old Surrey kennels attacked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-staff-attacked-by-40-masked-protesters.html

March 2002 - vehicle driven at hunt supporter - http://www.ashbournenewstelegraph.co.uk/News/Hunt-confrontation.htm

June 2002 - saboteurs carrying hammers and pick axe handles attack the Three Counties Hunt - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competit ... 36173.html

September 2004 - Old Surrey Hunt Kennels held under siege by violent saboteurs who threw stones at humans and hounds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sters.html

October 2004 - Suzanne Amos found guilty of ABH following incident at Quorn Hunt
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/58511.html

December 2006 - Saboteur arrested for carrying an offensive weapon at a meet of the Essex & Suffolk
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/n...2021:31:07:357

March 2009 intimidation by masked protestors ends with arrests http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/arrests-Betchworth-foxhunt/story-12667704-detail/story.html

March 2009 - Trevor Morse killed by monitor in gyrocopter - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...on-murder-quiz-as-aircraft-hits-huntsman.html

September 2009 - Tiff Clelland and David Marriot were charged with public order offences, they were asked to remove the clothing covering their faces and refused becoming verbally abusive to the police who had made the request.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/20...ving_balaclava

February 2011 - pepper spray used to break up violence http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8839...by_police_during_Sussex_hunt_protest_clashes/

March 2011 - 5 saboteurs arrested on suspicion of carrying an offensive weapon
http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co...test-Huntley/story-11867672-detail/story.html

January 2013 - Hunt Kennels attacked and GBH on huntsman http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/392/315607.html

Quite.

Perhaps they felt they were doing enough to uphold the law by sleeping with undercover police officers.

 

[combat_claire]

I think the poster was referring to hunts using birds as a smokescreen to cover illegal hunting. A quite different point. Read the post again.

And I was objecting to her inference that the use of our bird of prey was a smokescreen when as stated above we have clear evidence of our hunt's bird of prey killing foxes and other ground game.

 

[combat_claire]

Oh CC, will you hunt supporters always condone all law breaking and violence by your own people ?

I have never once on here heard any of you question the wrong doings of the hunts.
I find that quite scary and very telling of the lengths they will go to.

Where have I condoned the wrong doings of hunts? I am merely trying to point out that the anti-hunting brigade are not quite as squeaky clean as they like to pretend.

Frankly I think that the three people that have been killed (Tom Warby, Mike Hill & Trevor Morse) as a result of anti-hunting protest activity are three too many.

I am firmly of the opinion (and this is shared by many masters and followers within our hunt and indeed across the region) that if you ignore the activity of the anti-hunting saboteurs and refuse to fight with them or be intimidated by them then they will get bored and go away.

 

[Moomin1]

Where have I condoned the wrong doings of hunts? I am merely trying to point out that the anti-hunting brigade are not quite as squeaky clean as they like to pretend.

Frankly I think that the three people that have been killed (Tom Warby, Mike Hill & Trevor Morse) as a result of anti-hunting protest activity are three too many.

I am firmly of the opinion (and this is shared by many masters and followers within our hunt and indeed across the region) that if you ignore the activity of the anti-hunting saboteurs and refuse to fight with them or be intimidated by them then they will get bored and go away.

You can hardly include the case of Trevor Morse in that I'm afraid. He pursued the anti hunts guy, he tried to block him from leaving, despite being asked to move. He was the one who got on the phone asking for 'reinforcement' from the pro hunt supporters in order for them to come along to the scene to assist him in his efforts of blocking him.

Much as it is a sad situation for somebody to die like that, I am afraid he did put himself in that situation.

 

[SarahColeman]

I have a little maxim - better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt! Something you might be wise to consider applying to your own posts.

You simply need to open Youtube and search for 'golden eagle takes fox' - there are hundreds of videos to prove that a golden eagle is capable. We also have hours of footage (not available online) of our hunt's golden eagle with its professional falconer taking foxes, hares and small deer such as muntjacs and roe.

The Act says nothing about the kill via a bird of prey being humane. A huge flaw in the whole of the Act. A kill by an eagle is slower, more gruesome and probably more painful than a kill by hounds ever was.

Given that your post wholeheartedly compliments my statement regarding birds of prey being an inhumane killer of foxes I fear you excitedly jumped the gun with your stolen maxim and in fact make yourself look foolish! If your hunt is happy to use thoroughly inhumane methods to kill foxes then you and they should hang your heads in shame. I shall have a word about this situation and see what can be done regarding welfare/cruelty issues

 

[SarahColeman]

Yes complete 'pussy cats'

January 1993 - 5 police officers injured and 25 arrests of hunt saboteurs in Essex
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1474504.html

November 1993 - injunctions for the Fitzwilliam and Portman - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...g-1504580.html

March 1994 - Saboteurs armed with fencing stakes hospitalise four members of the Four Burrow hunt
http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/evi...fourburrow.htm

November 1994 - Saboteurs charged with aggravated trespass following at incident at the Woodland Pytchley Hunt
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~maureen/pr1b.html

December 1996 - saboteur arrested after causing a horse to fall onto the master, Whipper in also arrested after hitting saboteur trying to force his horse onto barbed wire

September 2000 - Old Surrey kennels attacked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-staff-attacked-by-40-masked-protesters.html

March 2002 - vehicle driven at hunt supporter - http://www.ashbournenewstelegraph.co.uk/News/Hunt-confrontation.htm

June 2002 - saboteurs carrying hammers and pick axe handles attack the Three Counties Hunt - http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competit ... 36173.html

September 2004 - Old Surrey Hunt Kennels held under siege by violent saboteurs who threw stones at humans and hounds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... sters.html

October 2004 - Suzanne Amos found guilty of ABH following incident at Quorn Hunt
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/58511.html

December 2006 - Saboteur arrested for carrying an offensive weapon at a meet of the Essex & Suffolk
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/n...2021:31:07:357

March 2009 intimidation by masked protestors ends with arrests http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/arrests-Betchworth-foxhunt/story-12667704-detail/story.html

March 2009 - Trevor Morse killed by monitor in gyrocopter - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...on-murder-quiz-as-aircraft-hits-huntsman.html

September 2009 - Tiff Clelland and David Marriot were charged with public order offences, they were asked to remove the clothing covering their faces and refused becoming verbally abusive to the police who had made the request.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/20...ving_balaclava

February 2011 - pepper spray used to break up violence http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8839...by_police_during_Sussex_hunt_protest_clashes/

March 2011 - 5 saboteurs arrested on suspicion of carrying an offensive weapon
http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co...test-Huntley/story-11867672-detail/story.html

January 2013 - Hunt Kennels attacked and GBH on huntsman http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/392/315607.html

A very interesting read and thank you for taking the time to compile it. Since the hunting ban though is their any actual evidence of monitors or sabs attacking huntsmen? the above is a lot of huff and puff about nothing in all honesty. As for the 2013 report which of course happened about 10yrs ago what is that all about

 

[competitiondiva]

well you learn a new thing everyday, I thought the bird of prey was only used with the harriers??? Which in a completely separate debate, why do hare numbers need controlling?

 

[Countryman]

It's true. You have to ask just why hunts that ignore the antis seem to get far fewer visits... Could it be that they get bored and all they're interested in is trying to get a reaction?

 

[Moomin1]

It's true. You have to ask just why hunts that ignore the antis seem to get far fewer visits... Could it be that they get bored and all they're interested in is trying to get a reaction?

Maybe so! Who knows.

Who actually cares?

 

[JanetGeorge]

BTW, The Trevor Morse incident found the pilot NOT GUILTY. Mr Morse had blocked the pilot in and called for more hunt supporters. The pilot was in fear of his life having already been shot at while he was in the air, repeatedly asked the man to move and moments later, didn't Ottis Ferry(no stranger to assaults)along with other reinforcements arrive on the scene ?
Don't use that unhappy incident to try and point score. The pilot went through hell.

IF the Jury had been allowed to know who was in the gyrocopter with the pilot, it may well have been different! The pilot was accompanied by a man well known for his total disrespect for life (or death - as he's a convicted grave desecrator! That man JOKED about Mr. Morse's death at the time it actually happened.

And what hell do you think Mr. Morse's family went through - after all, he had died a horrible death!

The pilot had been harrassing hunts for weeks, putting hunt followers - including children - in danger as they flew low over riders. On the day of Mr. Morse's death, they didn't even have a camera or video in the gyrocopter - they were just acting to disrupt and annoy with NO thought for the safety of riders whose horses would be scared by low flying! So pardon me if I hope he DID go through hell!

 

[Moomin1]

IF the Jury had been allowed to know who was in the gyrocopter with the pilot, it may well have been different! The pilot was accompanied by a man well known for his total disrespect for life (or death - as he's a convicted grave desecrator! That man JOKED about Mr. Morse's death at the time it actually happened.

And what hell do you think Mr. Morse's family went through - after all, he had died a horrible death!

The pilot had been harrassing hunts for weeks, putting hunt followers - including children - in danger as they flew low over riders. On the day of Mr. Morse's death, they didn't even have a camera or video in the gyrocopter - they were just acting to disrupt and annoy with NO thought for the safety of riders whose horses would be scared by low flying! So pardon me if I hope he DID go through hell!

How come it said that they had landed the gyrocopter to refuel, and that Morse had actually arrived in his land rover at the location to take photos of them?

 

[Hunters]

Give up Janet. You can't change bigots or fanatics.

I have returned home from work & read today's posts.

They're not interested in anything anyone of us has to say.

They have an Ill informed answer for everything & if they don't then they resort to insults.

The word 'fanatic' comes to mind.

 

[Nancykitt]

Given that your post wholeheartedly compliments my statement regarding birds of prey being an inhumane killer of foxes I fear you excitedly jumped the gun with your stolen maxim and in fact make yourself look foolish! If your hunt is happy to use thoroughly inhumane methods to kill foxes then you and they should hang your heads in shame. I shall have a word about this situation and see what can be done regarding welfare/cruelty issues

I think you have pretty much summed up the ridiculous nature of the law here.
Yes, it is perfectly legal to kill a fox using a bird of prey - although it does have to be a large bird (typically a golden eagle or eagle owl).
Yes, it is perfectly legal to shoot a fox. It is not desirable to attempt to shoot a fox with a shotgun (unless it is very close) but it does happen.
Yes, it is perfectly legal to use a snare or trap.

Personally, I'm not very happy about any of the above. But they are legal.

I've seen an urban fox trapped in a cage and then shot at point blank range. In this case, it was not the shooting that disturbed me, but the fact that the fox was incredibly distressed due to the fact that it was caged. It brought home to me that the most cruel thing to happen to this animal was to be deprived of the ability to run away.

Yet it is completely legal.

I am constantly coming across members of the public who honestly believe that foxes are some sort of protected species and that it is illegal to kill one. I've been amazed at how little some people know about the law, foxes and hunting.

 

[SarahColeman]

IF the Jury had been allowed to know who was in the gyrocopter with the pilot, it may well have been different! The pilot was accompanied by a man well known for his total disrespect for life (or death - as he's a convicted grave desecrator! That man JOKED about Mr. Morse's death at the time it actually happened.

And what hell do you think Mr. Morse's family went through - after all, he had died a horrible death!

The pilot had been harrassing hunts for weeks, putting hunt followers - including children - in danger as they flew low over riders. On the day of Mr. Morse's death, they didn't even have a camera or video in the gyrocopter - they were just acting to disrupt and annoy with NO thought for the safety of riders whose horses would be scared by low flying! So pardon me if I hope he DID go through hell!

Had the jury been allowed to know who was in the copter thing it would have not changed Morse's actions. Neither the fact you have not added that the pilot had been investigated for low flying and CLEARED ( putting children in danger?? you sensationalist fiction writer Janet!!) Would it change the fact that senior hunt staff lied in court and were humiliated by the judge for doing so?! Perhaps you can explain why Morse was after the flyers, why he was like a man possessed, what did he have planned for those poor men?

 

[cptrayes]

You can't change bigots or fanatics.

I have ...... read today's posts.

They're not interested in anything anyone of us has to say.

They have an Ill informed answer for everything & if they don't then they resort to insults.

The word 'fanatic' comes to mind.

A post that I wholeheartedly agree with!