Saturday at Aintree

[Fred66]

And what was the excuse in all the other years?

Changes were made after the 2012 race to try and improve safety and from 2013-2018 there were no fatalities. 2021 there was one euthanised after the race having been pulled up.
In total 5 have died in the 2019-2023 period, which is obviously 5 too many. It would be good to see that ongoing reviews happen to ensure that lessons can be learned and safety improved further, however I would hate to see the race consigned to history.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Willie Mullins has confirmed that Recite A Prayer fractured an eye socket. He has has surgery in Liverpool on it and will return home soon.

Johny Burke has escaped with a broken arm.

Galvin picked up a nasty cut whilst running loose - he got himself tangled up in a ladder the protestors were using to get in that the police/security had left laying at the side of the course. So that one is mixed responsibility and blame attached to everyone bar the horse.

 

[sakura]

The article also says:

On average, a horse dies every other day on the tracks, over jumps and on the flat, with many more dying in training and the paddock. The dangerous institution of the Grand National should have been retired long ago.

Where we did succeed is in showing that this is a much bigger problem than just one race. We protested because everywhere we look we see a broken relationship with animals and the natural world.

I’d agree, they did achieve that.

Again, if the horses were dangerously wound up by the delay, it is up to the organisers to protect their well being and safety by further postponing or cancelling. They didn’t.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Exactly, like H16s trainer saying this:

"It's not good," said Thomson. "He got absolutely hyper and we washed him off. They haven't a bloody clue what they're doing. He just hasn't taken off at the first fence; he's got so bloody hyper because of the carry on.

If he's in that much of a state, why wasn't he pulled from the race? Was he in a fit state to run? I think they said about Galvin shaking - why were they running? There's being revved up but these sound like they'd gone past the point of seeing sense.

It felt like they were almost rushed to get on with it once the go ahead was given. Perhaps had they paraded or spent a little more time at the start these could have been picked up and vet checked.

Perhaps after the delay a vet should have checked each of them as they headed to the course to ensure none had suffered adverse affects from the extra parade time?

Didn't one of the trainers say their horse wasn't affected by the delay? However should those who were have been protected by being withdrawn?

 

[bonny]

Exactly, like H16s trainer saying this:

"It's not good," said Thomson. "He got absolutely hyper and we washed him off. They haven't a bloody clue what they're doing. He just hasn't taken off at the first fence; he's got so bloody hyper because of the carry on.

If he's in that much of a state, why wasn't he pulled from the race? Was he in a fit state to run? I think they said about Galvin shaking - why were they running? There's being revved up but these sound like they'd gone past the point of seeing sense.

It felt like they were almost rushed to get on with it once the go ahead was given. Perhaps had they paraded or spent a little more time at the start these could have been picked up and vet checked.

Perhaps after the delay a vet should have checked each of them as they headed to the course to ensure none had suffered adverse affects from the extra parade time?

Didn't one of the trainers say their horse wasn't affected by the delay? However should those who were have been protected by being withdrawn?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

 

[Honeylight]

Does anyone remember the horse ambulance at Aintree in the 1960-1970s? It was pulled by shire horses. Things have improved since then, horses were left dead at the side of the jumps, there are photographs in books. I remember Channel 4 and John Francome zooming into a to a damaged horse at Cheltenham with the green screens, one of Martin Pipe's.

 

[sakura]

Hindsight, or failure to plan? The protest was well known before the race. Even I knew it was happening, and I don’t follow racing or the group involved.

 

[Bob notacob]

Unless the rules have been changed since my day, a horse cannot be withdrawn within 15 minutes of the advertised start time .Its all to do with betting and nothing to do with welfare unfortunately.

Also the start seemed very rushed - would the ones such as hill sixteen and Galvin, who had apparently got so very stressed, have been picked up by the vet if they'd been at the start longer? If the trainer was having to put water on HS and saying how worked up he was - why wasn't he withdrawn? Same as poor Synchronised that time.

.

 

[Gamebird]

Willie Mullins has confirmed that Recite A Prayer fractured an eye socket. He has has surgery in Liverpool on it and will return home soon.

Johny Burke has escaped with a broken arm.

Galvin picked up a nasty cut whilst running loose - he got himself tangled up in a ladder the protestors were using to get in that the police/security had left laying at the side of the course. So that one is mixed responsibility and blame attached to everyone bar the horse.

Thank you. Obviously I knew that about RAP, but wouldn't be in a job if I repeated it before it was in the public domain. He was uninjured in the unseating at the first, so the injury must have been incurred whislt loose. He was running with Galvin for a while so I wonder whether something similar happened to him.

 

[teapot]

Was it this? (Ladder incident, with footage)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1647529660824137728

Willie Mullins has confirmed that Recite A Prayer fractured an eye socket. He has has surgery in Liverpool on it and will return home soon.

Johny Burke has escaped with a broken arm.

Galvin picked up a nasty cut whilst running loose - he got himself tangled up in a ladder the protestors were using to get in that the police/security had left laying at the side of the course. So that one is mixed responsibility and blame attached to everyone bar the horse.

Looking at that vid above, not sure those are the same ladders the protestors had (from the photos and footage available eg 69866531-11976413-image-a-49_1681578667440.jpg) - or indeed ladders at all; the rungs are at an angle, so some weird from of scaffolding left in a stupid place? Either way - something that shouldn't have happened.

Thank you. Obviously I knew that about RAP, but wouldn't be in a job if I repeated it before it was in the public domain. He was uninjured in the unseating at the first, so the injury must have been incurred whislt loose. He was running with Galvin for a while so I wonder whether something similar happened to him.

@Gamebird - think he's in the vid above. One of the two loose horses when going through the running rail ended up on the ground before getting up and off they went, before finding that load of metal.

 

[toppedoff]

@Elf On A Shelf sorry for putting this here, but are outriders common on the racecourse? I know there was 2 during the GN but I've only ever heard of them being really popular overseas

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

@Elf On A Shelf sorry for putting this here, but are outriders common on the racecourse? I know there was 2 during the GN but I've only ever heard of them being really popular overseas

No we don't use them here. Only for races over the big fences at Aintree. They are positioned to encourage loose horses to them in the catching areas and then they can be lead quietly back once the race is over. It gives them a quiet friend to look after them. You can request to be ponied to the start but that is incredibly rare and usually only happens when the Americans and Australians come over to the big flat meetings.

 

[Gamebird]

@Bob notacob
Apologies, can't quote your post, but horses are withdrawn within 15mins of post time all the time - missing shoes, unseated on way to post, lame at post, tack malfunctions, refusing to join the rest of the field etc.

 

[Gamebird]

@Elf On A Shelf sorry for putting this here, but are outriders common on the racecourse? I know there was 2 during the GN but I've only ever heard of them being really popular overseas

It's normal at PTPs, but as Elf says, not at proper racecourses

 

[Clodagh]

I think Fakenham is the only course that has them on NH days?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Thank you. Obviously I knew that about RAP, but wouldn't be in a job if I repeated it before it was in the public domain. He was uninjured in the unseating at the first, so the injury must have been incurred whislt loose. He was running with Galvin for a while so I wonder whether something similar happened to him.

No would expect you to say anything. Our code in racing is keep schtum til the press shout people don't know half the crap we went through for the 2 weeks before the National with Corach!

 

[SadKen]

I too remember Dark Ivy. I was about 7 when he died in front of me on tv, and he’s the reason I never watch or bet on the National, or any NH races.

Isn’t it the case that it’s primarily the distance that is the test for the GN? In which case why not half the number of jumps and put the first one far enough from the start for all horses to get into a rhythm, settle and find space?

Reduce the field too. I suspect the number of horses is currently part of the appeal as it is a ‘spectacle’ and makes for more betting, rags to riches stories that capture the zeitgeist, office sweepstakes… but notice some trainers won’t run their good horses at it. So going for ‘elite’ fields won’t work.

In terms of public perception, Racing is the thin end of the wedge. Imo we will only see jumps racing for another generation, and there is a serious risk that all equine sport will become socially unacceptable (flat will be one of the last to go, because it is elite sport). I question my own desire to compete in dressage; is it ethical? why isn’t it enough of a privilege to simply care for my mare? And I don’t have an answer that isn’t selfish AF. If I’m asking, you can guarantee that the public’s patience for animal death, perceived mistreatment or compulsion to compete in the name of sport is running out. The Coliseum is on borrowed time.

 

[Equi]

Willie Mullins has confirmed that Recite A Prayer fractured an eye socket. He has has surgery in Liverpool on it and will return home soon.

Johny Burke has escaped with a broken arm.

Galvin picked up a nasty cut whilst running loose - he got himself tangled up in a ladder the protestors were using to get in that the police/security had left laying at the side of the course. So that one is mixed responsibility and blame attached to everyone bar the horse.

I doubt you’ll hear the protestors mention that one.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Looking at that vid above, not sure those are the same ladders the protestors had (from the photos and footage available eg 69866531-11976413-image-a-49_1681578667440.jpg) - or indeed ladders at all; the rungs are at an angle, so some weird from of scaffolding left in a stupid place? Either way - something that shouldn't have happened.



@Gamebird - think he's in the vid above. One of the two loose horses when going through the running rail ended up on the ground before getting up and off they went, before finding that load of metal.

Think I've seen another angle of that and both loose ones look to be on the floor at one point, also when they ran out to exit the course and crashed through the rails, one got knocked over. I don't think it was the protestors ladders more general rigging?

I saw someone mention a "horrific incident with the loose horses" on the Melling road on the second circuit that the camera didn't pick up, however I'm unsure how true it is as not seen any other mention of it.

They definitely need to do something to pick up any that get onto the inside quicker, be it pens/out riders etc. There's a lot of equipment on the inside and the ambulances etc, they could have doubled back and been hit by one/ got in the way and held the vehicle convoy up.

I was watching them rather than the field, so noticed how they disappeared, but was waiting for them to suddenly decided they wanted to rejoin the others and swerve back through the rails.

Would making the rails higher help? Like stallion fencing height? Although then you have the problem they stay jumping the fences which has led to past fatalities including that of Envoye Special. Sometimes they head up the run in as they know that's where the exit is. I'm not sure what can be used to entice them away into safe areas for catching

Thought Davy spoke very well in the video there (think he'd make a good pundit), and as he said you don't want stuff lying around that they can injure themselves on - as loose ones have got into the inside before perhaps greater attention needs to be paid to making sure there's nothing lying around that adds to the risk of a possible loose horse charging round

 

[Bob notacob]

@Bob notacob
Apologies, can't quote your post, but horses are withdrawn within 15mins of post time all the time - missing shoes, unseated on way to post, lame at post, tack malfunctions, refusing to join the rest of the field etc.

Yes ! but only by the stewards (jockey club stewards) I remember having been totally splatted with a broken arm , addressing the stewards as to why my next ride needed to be withdrawn . I made my point then collapsed straight through their table LOL !!!!!!!!

 

[Bob notacob]

I remember many years ago the Derby being delayed because princely review twisted a plate . Re shod in short time and the derby was only about 5 minutes late .

 

[fetlock]

Can't say the second owners comments are that great, seems like because they had a winner all is fine...

'They're looked after like kings' - Hill Sixteen's owner defends sport despite sad Grand National loss

Hill Sixteen's owner Jimmy Fyffe has defended the sport's actions and record on horse welfare following an emotional day at Aintree on Saturday,... Read More

www.racingpost.com

CG owner came across well saying he wants to do everything he can to save him so he gets a retirement. Hopefully Recite owner is the same

An interesting read from before the race. Bought purely for the GN, the plan was always to take the horse to the States after the race.

American Owner Bids to Win Grand National

An American racehorse owner whose ancestors triumphed in the Grand National in 1923 is bidding to recreate his family's success by winning the race April 15, exactly 100 years later.

www.bloodhorse.com

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

An interesting read from before the race. Bought purely for the GN, the plan was always to take the horse to the States after the race.

American Owner Bids to Win Grand National

An American racehorse owner whose ancestors triumphed in the Grand National in 1923 is bidding to recreate his family's success by winning the race April 15, exactly 100 years later.

www.bloodhorse.com

Perhaps a bit of credit for the guy - he's barely owned the horse for any period of time so could be seen as less attached to him and easier for him to say don't bother fixing him, but he's trying to save him. Obviously not short of money which helps!

Although none of the loose horses interfering had headgear on but perhaps banning at the least blinkers, but maybe any sort of headgear would help - remember Paddy's Return taking out half the field as he had blinkers so probably couldn't see them only hear them? (As an aside I hate seeing blinkers etc not being removed after the race and just left on! PN daughter point to points and there's several photos of Shantou Flyer with his left on after she's dismounted)

Richard Hoiles has made an interesting point in a comment on Twitter that levelling out beachers has encouraged everyone to go for the inside - previously it was seen as the brave man's route, but now there's nothing to fear, so everyone takes the shortest route like in any other race, which possibly leads to crowding.

Also perhaps less faffing at the start, if the jockeys arent ready (maybe give them a count down like the equivalent of an amber traffic light) tough. I think it was cloudy glen causing problems yesterday, he's always tricky at the start but first line up looked ok bar one or 2. Obviously in a 5f sprint it's vital they all get a good even start but there's 4 miles to run.

As a separate issue, the BHA don't help themselves about issues such as the Wilson's running their horses into the ground. Abayu du Mathan is up to 30 runs since December 2021. Will he stand up to retirement? Red Happy also constantly on the go. Why is she being allowed to flog them? These aren't 5f flat races.

 

[Bob notacob]

Richard Hoiles has made an interesting point in a comment on Twitter that levelling out beachers has encouraged everyone to go for the inside - previously it was seen as the brave man's route, but now there's nothing to fear, so everyone takes the shortest route like in any other race, which possibly leads to crowding.

Of course it does . You go for the racing line . That's the problem. Back in the day , jockeys were more interested in surviving the big blackthorn hedges than taking "a racing line "Making the GN softer has made it more dangerous!

 

[Caol Ila]

I've now seen the race on YouTube, and all the loose horses definitely seem to be safety hazards. Why doesn't NH racing use more outriders? They are everywhere in American flat racing and scoop up loose horses as quickly as they can.

You might not be able to catch all the loose horses in a race like the Grand National, but surely picking up a few would be better than nothing?

 

[toppedoff]

I've now seen the race on YouTube, and all the loose horses definitely seem to be safety hazards. Why doesn't NH racing use more outriders? They are everywhere in American flat racing and scoop up loose horses as quickly as they can.

You might not be able to catch all the loose horses in a race like the Grand National, but surely picking up a few would be better than nothing?

I'd love outriders to be more popular in the UK

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Horses can be pulled out by trainers right up to the start of a race. The horse would be dismounted and taken off track or quickly cantered back in if they are near the let off point. BHA can also spin horses.

Blinkers/Visors/Hoods - its not easy to whip them off at the end of a race as they are underneath the bridle. Unless the horse is calm and quiet (which at the end of the race they most certainly are not) taking them off risks you taking the bridle off accidentally too. And yes I have done this! With one that had quietened down in the winners enclosure and was also thankfully a very kind mare who just stood and looked at me as if I was stupid! So that is why 99% of the time they are still on until the horse is back in the stable yard and you can swop your bridle for a headcollar and chifney.

Outriders - they don't work in jumps races over here. The hurdles and fences come too quickly for you to safely dive in, grab a horse and pull it up. It may work on the flat and it may work with one who is avoiding all jumps but at most courses that means they are going round the middle between the chase and hurdle track. Again, nowhere really safe to pull them up at such speed before you meet another obstacle. The outriders at the National are to encourage loose horses over to them and into the catching pens so they can be caught and lead back in safely. Not all horses take this route though.

 

[Gamebird]

Yes ! but only by the stewards (jockey club stewards) I remember having been totally splatted with a broken arm , addressing the stewards as to why my next ride needed to be withdrawn . I made my point then collapsed straight through their table LOL !!!!!!!!

Nope, by trainers too. Up until the race goes off. In the shoe example often horses are replated at the start (happened at Aintree), but not always. I was at Market Rasen last week and two horses were pulled at the start of different races by their trainers for two different reasons.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Deleted.

 

[Burnerbee]

I too remember Dark Ivy. I was about 7 when he died in front of me on tv, and he’s the reason I never watch or bet on the National, or any NH races.

Isn’t it the case that it’s primarily the distance that is the test for the GN? In which case why not half the number of jumps and put the first one far enough from the start for all horses to get into a rhythm, settle and find space?

Reduce the field too. I suspect the number of horses is currently part of the appeal as it is a ‘spectacle’ and makes for more betting, rags to riches stories that capture the zeitgeist, office sweepstakes… but notice some trainers won’t run their good horses at it. So going for ‘elite’ fields won’t work.

In terms of public perception, Racing is the thin end of the wedge. Imo we will only see jumps racing for another generation, and there is a serious risk that all equine sport will become socially unacceptable (flat will be one of the last to go, because it is elite sport). I question my own desire to compete in dressage; is it ethical? why isn’t it enough of a privilege to simply care for my mare? And I don’t have an answer that isn’t selfish AF. If I’m asking, you can guarantee that the public’s patience for animal death, perceived mistreatment or compulsion to compete in the name of sport is running out. The Coliseum is on borrowed time.

We’re probably the same age - I vividly remember that too and whilst I continued watching NH (very rarely betting), it was the first time I questioned the adults love for it