Session number 14 collected trot & passage beginning.

Armas

Armas

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
1,331
Visit site
Another productive session staring to work on his collected trot and the beginnings of passage !

​
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 17px; text-align: left; ">[video=youtube_share;bP4nXyWXbo0]http://youtu.be/bP4nXyWXbo0[/video]
 
I watched the first couple of the schooling sessions, and then could not watch anymore as it was depressing me, I thought I would take a look at this one thinking there must be an improvement, I was wrong. How can you allow this rider to do this to your horse? It is disgusting. She insists he is behind the vertical even on a long rein, why will she not let him see where he is going?!!! She is going to break him, he WILL have back and neck problems, and It is amazing how he can actually breathe when she is riding him! She looks like he has lost condition, and towards the end of that film he looked very stressed with those little hops, kicking out, and tossing his head.
His hind legs are not working...because they cant.
 
kip22 this horse does have a history of evading work by putting himself behind the vertical, you cannot force a horse to work behind the vertical on a long rein that is illogical to my mind.

however i do wish this rider would stop trying to run before she can walk with Armas, he will not consistently work forward, straight and in an outline so why James is she trying to collect and passage? and why does she send him running on so flat/on the forehand and fast? to my mind it achieves nothing other that possibly teaching him another evasion for the future.

he does looks stressed (again) in this video but that is sometimes the case (and not always avoidable) when teaching something new especially if communication between horse and rider is not clear.

bit disappointed in this session tbh James, i have seen improvements in the last couple of training sessions but this would looks like it will be a fair step back to Armas and his confidence with this rider, she does not even finish by asking him questions he finds easy such as a bit of lateral work to end on a positive note with him.

from what i saw the passage did nothing to engage his hind end but quite the opposite
 
Of course you can put a horse behind the vertical on long reins, every time he goes to stretch his nose forwards she clicks at him to get his attention I assume, them gives a little pull of the reins so he brings his nose in, you do talk sense though, and your comments about this horse are correct, this rider does nothing to encourage the horse to not go behind the vertical though, in fact she seems to reward him when be over bends.
 
In fact if you pause the video at the start when she is "stretching" him, you can see he is well behind the vertical.
 
I thought the initial basic way of going was an improvement on the last ridden day indoors. Before the collected work, he looked like he was taking her along a bit more, approaching the work he was producing outdoors, accepting the aids, into the contact, a more balanced trot :)

Kip22, it's a shame if you have not watched them all :( because I think you have missed out on seeing some really positive improvements, particularly recently on the long reins but also under saddle. I don't think it's fair to say she is insisting he is btv at all - you can hear her talking to him and correcting him when he curls up too much, she offers her hands forward frequently and he is now responding to that. I think she clicks at him when he stops travelling forward - I get the impression he is behind the leg quite a lot but if she asks too strongly he blows up, so the clicking is to try and keep the energy IMO :)

FWIW I didn't get the impression that she was collecting and working towards passage as an end in itself and I think her comments at the end explained the reasons for this work.

Also she said yesterday she was working on control and not allowing the horse to decide for himself when he did things, so working on & back in the trot is a very normal thing to do. I thought the passagey work was aiming to maintain activity while shortening the trot steps - he has a tendency to flatten and withdraw back when asked to collect (or even to half halt) so actually to keep snapping up behind is a step in the right direction. It's not unusual for a horse to over-react when challenged this way to start with and when allowed forward he is beginning to take bigger, more engaged steps in rhythm although, granted, the tension has spoilt the contact a little *today* :wink3:


The stretchy trot at the end looked more familiar to him now and I thought it was positive that he offered that even though he had been pushed out of his comfort zone quite a lot today.

As usual, JMHO and trying to give some balance to the discussions! I always try to view these with an open mind especially as we have see some really nice work before now :) So with my own horse I might not have pursued the collection for as long a period, but then I know what she feels like and how she learns best. She has also been tentative to the contact in the past and I'm afraid of breaking that. And I'm not the one sitting on this horse :) sometimes when they are on the brink of understanding, an extra half circuit makes the difference.

I'm *guessing* you were stuck indoors again today J? Where he is unlikely to produce his best work, going by yesterday's session. As well as being small, it's also a noisy arena by the sound of it and he is a bit spooked by the doors and windows.

So for me, the BTV issue is really not *always* the top priority. The overall quality of the work is improving little by little and as it does so, he becomes even IFV (agree today was a little messy, but it was a new challenge for him, which is why the context of the full set of videos is so useful in understanding).
 
I fear she may well have undone some of his hard work yesterday. He is back to being overfaced and unsettled, I do not understand why she asks for that speed when he needs to learn to balance himself, or the collection for that matter, too much too soon for me, but then you already knew what I would say ;)
 
At the risk of sounding bitchy here could someone please explain why a professional trainer thinks it is a good idea to push an unbalanced horse that is not working in a consistant and supple outline, who is still not listening or maybe understanding her seat a d legs and is certainly not confident into much more advanced movements like passage. I will agree that there has been improvement in previous videos but it concerns me that these seam to be after you have raised concerns to her that people have voiced on your thread rather than through her really understanding the horse and wanting to nail the basics. She seems like she wants to push him into a pretty outline a d is unaware sometimes of how overbent and off balance he is and get him doing advanced stuff to show off how good she is which it clearly doesnt as the horse is not carrying himself in a way to be able to do it properly. Sorry again if it seems like I am attacking ber but thats just what I see.
 
Have you every tried working Armas to music?
I will not criticize your trainer,but music may help on 2 levels. Most importantly,rhythm. He could be worked to a regular beat and learn to lengthen and shorten without rushing.(It would need to be less is more to start with)And secondly he may relax more with the right music.
Some horses even respond to the 'spring' of the beat of certain music(complicated to explain,but some music has a static,grounded beat and some has a bouncier feel) and this encourages elevation of the steps and thus leads to passage.
 
The whole process of whats going on from the start is still to rushed for me, why anyone wants to push this horse to even attempt piaffe when hes weak behind,not muscled up in the appropriate places, is unbalanced and not supple enough is beyond me, but hes not my horse :-(
 
I'm sorry but I think that Armas looks terrible, and he also looks so unhappy.

His neck has little muscle and it makes his head look rather big, however you never will get his neck well muscled up in the right places if he keeps being worked like that.

Definitely a step back in my books, I have no idea why you are so hellbent on keeping this trainer James, she may be good however she is just not good for Armas and it shows.
 
14 days from start to passage is it me or is this a flawed training path- im all for working to a horses strengths but this horse is not straight and doesnt go forward - how can you think of doing passage.., forget about the btv and look at his legs im not sure hes overtracked once... why the rush?
 
blitznbobs said:
14 days from start to passage is it me or is this a flawed training path- im all for working to a horses strengths but this horse is not straight and doesnt go forward - how can you think of doing passage.., forget about the btv and look at his legs im not sure hes overtracked once... why the rush?
Click to expand...

Quite agree. Another video which is uncomfortable to watch.
 
I have to admit to having very mixed views on this. I'll summarise to start and explain after if I can before being called away from the laptop...

I can understand what the trainer is trying to do and I agree with her reasons for it. I don't however believe that this will have a long term benefit on Armas.

Understanding the trainer you need to understand the motivations. First and foremost, the trainer will have a reputation for getting results, she will, as she should, want to maintain this. Secondly, the trainer is acting for a client, James. She has a duty to her client to get results and make improvements and will have a personal reason for doing so and that is to keep the ride and so keep the business. Lastly, it takes a very very strong and secure person to be able to say when they are probably not quite right. I have a feeling this trainer may know in her heart of hearts that this isn't going to be the best partnership, but I don't think she will ever stand up and say that. I can't blame her for the first and second reasons...I do however wish she would.

I am at the point in my assessment of this trainer that, despite who she trains with, she is an extremely talented rider and she does show a large degree of sympathy for the horse, or at least has shown that more and more through the process...as I have mentioned before, this I feel is more due to feedback from James than any introspection on her part.

So, what I like about her is that she is taking everything on board and making changes.
What I don't like about her is that she is taking everything on board and making changes.

Confused? Apologies...but my point is that whilst it is admirable that she is allowing James to have so much input and she is willing to change and adapt...if she had her own plan for dealing with a horse like this that was based on experience...and a plan of how she was going to approach the rehabilitation, she would not be making changes based on ANY feedback. She would instead be saying things like, "I understand where you're coming from, but this is my plan, this is why it will work and if there are no improvements in the next 4 weeks, we'll look at changing the plan".

All horses are different and have to be ridden as individuals, however, the basic strategy should be the same...it should just be the little methods that are adapted to the individual horse. This trainer hasn't changed little methods, she has been changing the entire plan. If I were paying good money to a professional, I would be wondering why they were listening to me so much when they are the expert?

That said, the fact that she has taking on board what James has been saying has meant that she has made things easier on Armas. Comparing her first few sessions, especially the first posted on here with more recent sessions have shown that she has been able to encourage more relaxation and willing from him.

The great positives about this 14th session are that Armas is tucking in BTV a lot less. There's always yin and yang though. As much as it is great thing to see Armas less inclined to tuck so far behind so often...I don't think he'd have been doing it half as much again were he not being asked quite so much in this session. The truth is, he has had a certain way of going for a long time now. He simply can't be expected to hold a position that is, at the moment unfamiliar and uncomfortable for him. The tucks BTV in this session look to me more like he is just taking a quick break for his neck muscles as opposed to truly evading. He seems happier in the contact in general as a result of recent good work by the trainer...he just looks like he needs a break. It will take time for his muscling to change to support a better carriage, so until then, it should be taken slowly so as not to overdo it. Overdoing it creates tension and tension creates poor work.

Talking of tension, I saw too much of it in this session for me to be happy with the session overall. As another poster mentioned...you shouldn't run before you can walk. I understand the theory behind asking for collection...but the moment the goal comes at the cost of the horse is the moment the goal should be abandoned.

In asking for the collection should engage the hind and lift the shoulders. The horse should be more in front of the rider...uphill...light on the forehand and "sitting" in the work. Baby steps is what creates this. If needed I can go through the video again when I have time and pin point the times where genuine opportunities for learning and improvement are lost. There are A LOT of those lost moments in this session. Because of that, the further along the session gets, the more I see a horse that is holding the head high through a tense neck, not through self carriage. I see this because the hind appears to almost bounce up and down, while the shoulders are low, heavy looking and inactive as a result of that. The back looks tight....which is where I have a genuine concern for Armas...this work puts him at risk of aggravating the issues he has, not working him through them.

The reasons this higher head carriage may, on the surface look like improvement are that the rein tension is low...sometimes the rein is actually loose while Armas has his head lifted up in these movements. This is one of the things we strive for when bringing this kind of work in. That should however come from the entire front end becoming so light that it all lifts up in front of the rider and the contact is not necessary as such. In this session, I see this lack of tension on the rein as being a result of a very tense and shortened neck and back...because the chest and shoulders are still so heavy.

I think he would have benefitted massively from working 3/4 of the session same as session 13, with perhaps no more than 5 minutes of the asking for collected steps...but asking in the right way. The rider sets it up fine, but as mentioned above, many opportunities for learning are missed. Instead, if she asked, got a few baby steps, even just two or three and rewarded immediately, then repeated just until the point that Armas understood and went back to the final part of the session being stretching and relaxed work again, we would see a much better picture.

Instead, too much time IMO was spent on this collected work. I'm not really concerned with the kicking out so much. It isn't ideal as realistically, I would like to have seen the foundations of this work started on the ground but, you know what...it's a new thing and reactions will happen, so not too big of a deal. What is too big of a deal for me to be happy with is that the more she did, the worse he went and I feel like the trainer that had started to really listen to the horse has gone and been replaced with the trainer that only wants the horse to listen to her. It cannot and should not ever be a one way conversation. Yes, she is allowing him breaks and stretches, but it's not enough to slap someone then kiss them better, then slap them again and kiss them better again. They may be greatful for the kisses, but they won't forget the slaps! Armas may be greatful for the breaks and stretching, but it won't erase the tension from the collected work.

So....a word in the above paragraph really sums this whole thing up for me in what will be my proper summary...

Foundations! The foundations of advanced work should always be rhythm, relaxation, straightness, impulsion and connection. I would want a horse to be at least comfortably capable of all of these before I started asking for collection. Armas is not capable of all of these yet. He is still very inconsistent in his contact, inconsistent in his rhythm and relaxation, not straight and the impulsion is tentative. It's such a shame because all of these were being improved upon, but this session has put those improvements at risk of being damaged.

Armas is possibly one of the most genuine, honest and willing horses I have seen working. He tries his absolute hardest.

I don't outright dislike this trainer and my hats off to her for getting quick improvements on a horse like Armas, but I would caution her to take a step back, remember to listen to the horse, only progress when he is ready, not when she thinks he is ready and not undertake work that jeopardises the improvements that are so very valuable.

I haven't got time to proof read this, so apologies if I have repeated myself or not made sense.

Not awful, but too much stress back on Armas for my liking.

James...I want your horse...he is so damn gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
_GG_ said:
I have to admit to having very mixed views on this. I'll summarise to start and explain after if I can before being called away from the laptop...

I can understand what the trainer is trying to do and I agree with her reasons for it. I don't however believe that this will have a long term benefit on Armas.

Understanding the trainer you need to understand the motivations. First and foremost, the trainer will have a reputation for getting results, she will, as she should, want to maintain this. Secondly, the trainer is acting for a client, James. She has a duty to her client to get results and make improvements and will have a personal reason for doing so and that is to keep the ride and so keep the business. Lastly, it takes a very very strong and secure person to be able to say when they are probably not quite right. I have a feeling this trainer may know in her heart of hearts that this isn't going to be the best partnership, but I don't think she will ever stand up and say that. I can't blame her for the first and second reasons...I do however wish she would.

I am at the point in my assessment of this trainer that, despite who she trains with, she is an extremely talented rider and she does show a large degree of sympathy for the horse, or at least has shown that more and more through the process...as I have mentioned before, this I feel is more due to feedback from James than any introspection on her part.

So, what I like about her is that she is taking everything on board and making changes.
What I don't like about her is that she is taking everything on board and making changes.

Confused? Apologies...but my point is that whilst it is admirable that she is allowing James to have so much input and she is willing to change and adapt...if she had her own plan for dealing with a horse like this that was based on experience...and a plan of how she was going to approach the rehabilitation, she would not be making changes based on ANY feedback. She would instead be saying things like, "I understand where you're coming from, but this is my plan, this is why it will work and if there are no improvements in the next 4 weeks, we'll look at changing the plan".

All horses are different and have to be ridden as individuals, however, the basic strategy should be the same...it should just be the little methods that are adapted to the individual horse. This trainer hasn't changed little methods, she has been changing the entire plan. If I were paying good money to a professional, I would be wondering why they were listening to me so much when they are the expert?

That said, the fact that she has taking on board what James has been saying has meant that she has made things easier on Armas. Comparing her first few sessions, especially the first posted on here with more recent sessions have shown that she has been able to encourage more relaxation and willing from him.

The great positives about this 14th session are that Armas is tucking in BTV a lot less. There's always yin and yang though. As much as it is great thing to see Armas less inclined to tuck so far behind so often...I don't think he'd have been doing it half as much again were he not being asked quite so much in this session. The truth is, he has had a certain way of going for a long time now. He simply can't be expected to hold a position that is, at the moment unfamiliar and uncomfortable for him. The tucks BTV in this session look to me more like he is just taking a quick break for his neck muscles as opposed to truly evading. He seems happier in the contact in general as a result of recent good work by the trainer...he just looks like he needs a break. It will take time for his muscling to change to support a better carriage, so until then, it should be taken slowly so as not to overdo it. Overdoing it creates tension and tension creates poor work.

Talking of tension, I saw too much of it in this session for me to be happy with the session overall. As another poster mentioned...you shouldn't run before you can walk. I understand the theory behind asking for collection...but the moment the goal comes at the cost of the horse is the moment the goal should be abandoned.

In asking for the collection should engage the hind and lift the shoulders. The horse should be more in front of the rider...uphill...light on the forehand and "sitting" in the work. Baby steps is what creates this. If needed I can go through the video again when I have time and pin point the times where genuine opportunities for learning and improvement are lost. There are A LOT of those lost moments in this session. Because of that, the further along the session gets, the more I see a horse that is holding the head high through a tense neck, not through self carriage. I see this because the hind appears to almost bounce up and down, while the shoulders are low, heavy looking and inactive as a result of that. The back looks tight....which is where I have a genuine concern for Armas...this work puts him at risk of aggravating the issues he has, not working him through them.

The reasons this higher head carriage may, on the surface look like improvement are that the rein tension is low...sometimes the rein is actually loose while Armas has his head lifted up in these movements. This is one of the things we strive for when bringing this kind of work in. That should however come from the entire front end becoming so light that it all lifts up in front of the rider and the contact is not necessary as such. In this session, I see this lack of tension on the rein as being a result of a very tense and shortened neck and back...because the chest and shoulders are still so heavy.

I think he would have benefitted massively from working 3/4 of the session same as session 13, with perhaps no more than 5 minutes of the asking for collected steps...but asking in the right way. The rider sets it up fine, but as mentioned above, many opportunities for learning are missed. Instead, if she asked, got a few baby steps, even just two or three and rewarded immediately, then repeated just until the point that Armas understood and went back to the final part of the session being stretching and relaxed work again, we would see a much better picture.

Instead, too much time IMO was spent on this collected work. I'm not really concerned with the kicking out so much. It isn't ideal as realistically, I would like to have seen the foundations of this work started on the ground but, you know what...it's a new thing and reactions will happen, so not too big of a deal. What is too big of a deal for me to be happy with is that the more she did, the worse he went and I feel like the trainer that had started to really listen to the horse has gone and been replaced with the trainer that only wants the horse to listen to her. It cannot and should not ever be a one way conversation. Yes, she is allowing him breaks and stretches, but it's not enough to slap someone then kiss them better, then slap them again and kiss them better again. They may be greatful for the kisses, but they won't forget the slaps! Armas may be greatful for the breaks and stretching, but it won't erase the tension from the collected work.

So....a word in the above paragraph really sums this whole thing up for me in what will be my proper summary...

Foundations! The foundations of advanced work should always be rhythm, relaxation, straightness, impulsion and connection. I would want a horse to be at least comfortably capable of all of these before I started asking for collection. Armas is not capable of all of these yet. He is still very inconsistent in his contact, inconsistent in his rhythm and relaxation, not straight and the impulsion is tentative. It's such a shame because all of these were being improved upon, but this session has put those improvements at risk of being damaged.

Armas is possibly one of the most genuine, honest and willing horses I have seen working. He tries his absolute hardest.

I don't outright dislike this trainer and my hats off to her for getting quick improvements on a horse like Armas, but I would caution her to take a step back, remember to listen to the horse, only progress when he is ready, not when she thinks he is ready and not undertake work that jeopardises the improvements that are so very valuable.

I haven't got time to proof read this, so apologies if I have repeated myself or not made sense.

Not awful, but too much stress back on Armas for my liking.

James...I want your horse...he is so damn gorgeous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


Wow...just as enlightening as ever. I am always completely absorbed when I read your posts, they are brilliant!
 
I just wanted to clarify a couple of points. The trainers adaptation is 99.9% her own doing, I make the odd suggestion such as removing the flash which she agreed was not necessary.
We have discussed the issues she rides she does what she thinks is necessary if I don't agree with some thing. She has a good understanding of Armas and his issues and is carrying out the work as she see fits. We may not agree with her methods or the structure how ever no trainer is the same and we all do things in different ways.
She is working on maintaining contact no matter where Armas puts his head BTV or up the contact is kept and evasion is not allowed.
The last two sessions have been indoors as the main arena was to wet. The small arena is not ideal hence she changed the work.
The collection will help with engagement. Armas tends to 'run' rather than trot we are working to changing that. The difference lies in the moment of suspension. A balanced/cadenced trot has a long moment of suspension (think of Passage as the ultimate in cadence ) and comes from a trot where the hind legs step under and lift the shoulders. All trot work should be towards that aim.

I agree it's not perfect, but he is enjoying the challenge I see that, and is working in a far better frame (of body and mind) I see improvement, and am pleased with how he's progressing.Rome wasn't built in a day, or that there is good tension as well as bad tension. Top athletes wouldn't get anywhere if they didn't use their muscles with a degree of tension, neither would horses. This is not a horse being asked to bumble along on a loose rein, the work he is doing is challenging him physically
 
I have been watching these videos with great interest.

As GG has said - this is all too rushed. The basic paces need to be correct before any advanced movements are attempted.

Armas is beautiful with great potential. But, the walk and trot must be forward and balanced before any collecting can be taught. This is not there yet. Let alone cadence in trot which can only be achieved once forward, balanced and collected is perfect.

I can only imagine that this rider feels under pressure to demonstrate the end result quickly. That's not going to happen. As for piaffe and passage? Not going to happen at this stage. Those hind legs are way too stiff and not working correctly.

And such movements are better taught on the ground before on top. But not until the basic paces are there.
 
I am really unsure as to why any of us bother posting on these threads anymore. I say what I see in a few short lines but poor GG spends a long time writing on here and what's the point? It's not helping the horse as James JUST sees something quite different. It's hilarious and so puzzling!
 
Armas said:
I agree it's not perfect, but he is enjoying the challenge I see that, and is working in a far better frame (of body and mind)
Click to expand...

Sorry Armas but you are clearly watching a totally different video to the rest of us. The horse is being made to run before he can walk, and to me, you seem to confuse "looking pretty" with progress.
Shame you can't send him to GG who talks a whole lot of sense!
 
Armas said:
I just wanted to clarify a couple of points. The trainers adaptation is 99.9% her own doing, I make the odd suggestion such as removing the flash which she agreed was not necessary.
We have discussed the issues she rides she does what she thinks is necessary if I don't agree with some thing. She has a good understanding of Armas and his issues and is carrying out the work as she see fits. We may not agree with her methods or the structure how ever no trainer is the same and we all do things in different ways.
She is working on maintaining contact no matter where Armas puts his head BTV or up the contact is kept and evasion is not allowed.
The last two sessions have been indoors as the main arena was to wet. The small arena is not ideal hence she changed the work.
The collection will help with engagement. Armas tends to 'run' rather than trot we are working to changing that. The difference lies in the moment of suspension. A balanced/cadenced trot has a long moment of suspension (think of Passage as the ultimate in cadence ) and comes from a trot where the hind legs step under and lift the shoulders. All trot work should be towards that aim.

I agree it's not perfect, but he is enjoying the challenge I see that, and is working in a far better frame (of body and mind) I see improvement, and am pleased with how he's progressing.Rome wasn't built in a day, or that there is good tension as well as bad tension. Top athletes wouldn't get anywhere if they didn't use their muscles with a degree of tension, neither would horses. This is not a horse being asked to bumble along on a loose rein, the work he is doing is challenging him physically
Click to expand...

to put it bluntly, are you having an affair with with the young lady riding him? There is no one so deaf as someone who doesn't want to hear. You are systematically ruining your horse.
 
Interesting to hear the words of others in your post too James. The cadence, the moments of suspension...hardly your regular venacular. Just see with your own eyes and think with your own mind for a change - I remember asking you to do that in response to video 3 and here we are on session 14.
 
you said yourself he had a peoblem with his right hind so u want to put the pressure of passage onto a damaged hock? this just seems a good way to break him permeantly.
 
Billie1007 said:
I am really unsure as to why any of us bother posting on these threads anymore. I say what I see in a few short lines but poor GG spends a long time writing on here and what's the point? It's not helping the horse as James JUST sees something quite different. It's hilarious and so puzzling!
Click to expand...

I keep my posts short as I am not going to be drawn in to a slaging match about the trainer. I respond to GG by PM as she has stated in the past. I post the videos as others have asked as they find it interesting.
Your constant negativity and trying to stir things up does become rather tiresome after awhile.

joeanne said:
Sorry Armas but you are clearly watching a totally different video to the rest of us. The horse is being made to run before he can walk, and to me, you seem to confuse "looking pretty" with progress.
Shame you can't send him to GG who talks a whole lot of sense!
Click to expand...

Interestingly that is exactly what some one said about the comments on this thread on Facebook ! I do not confuse looking pretty with work. It would be very interesting for some of the critics to post a couple of videos of them ridding a collected horse to show me how its done.
 
Billie1007 said:
Interesting to hear the words of others in your post too James. The cadence, the moments of suspension...hardly your regular venacular. Just see with your own eyes and think with your own mind for a change - I remember asking you to do that in response to video 3 and here we are on session 14.
Click to expand...

to be fair, that's basic dressage terminology in France. I had to stop talking like that when I moved to the UK as I am hardly a high level anything rider! ... Easy to pick up words when you hear them used in common parlance.
 
Please please please read my threads before posting incorrect information. My horse does not have a damaged hock.
 
Apols for typos in previous posts. James I can't lie about what I see - it's just not true that I am stirring or always responding negatively. At least three times I have recognised a positive change or softening or new way with the trainer. Apologies that I can't see through your eyes but I rather prefer my own as they view with no agenda or defensive stance. If it's easier for you to dismiss this as stirring or a personal attack then go ahead.
 
Armas said:
Interestingly that is exactly what some one said about the comments on this thread on Facebook ! I do not confuse looking pretty with work. It would be very interesting for some of the critics to post a couple of videos of them ridding a collected horse to show me how its done.
Click to expand...

See you totally miss the point. He should not BE doing collected work just yet. The groundwork is not set for it. GG explains it perfectly....try reading it. The horse is tense through the neck, there is no real self carriage and as already mentioned by GG, all you are going to do is aggravate the issues he already has.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top