Should we ban whips??

banned in competition (with exceptions eg para riders, driving etc) yes

all out ban-no.

there are so many useful reason to have them,flies, dogs, sometimes i will use on the shoulder of a young horse to help guide it round (as a gentle pressure not a smack) and as someone who does a lot with young horses and stallions you do occasionally need a little tap to say hey listen, so it can be a safety item also.

for lunging it helps keep the horse put and also tracking forward in t the contact, and for teaching piaffe and passage little touches are really helpful.

as someone else said....ban the behavior
 
Yeah, I think it'd be a big step forward. Or perhaps start it off so that you get extra points if you DON'T carry a whip or have spurs, something that makes it a big benefit to not do so. I personally havent worked spurs for years and never will. Wore them as a teenager at pony club because instructors encouraged me to. Theres too many "exceptions" people would make up otherwise, "oh I need it for safety" or whatever. I still remember the day a total stranger came up to me at a BE event after my XC round saying she was so impressed I was wearing such minimal tack (horse didnt need any extra to be fair, I wasnt trying to make any point) with a mild bit, no martingale, no spurs etc. I was proud even though it wasn't even particularly intentional. Should be rewarded though IMO.

Id love to see more encouragement and relaxing of rules to encourage bitless bridles too. Yes bitless bridles can still be bad, but surely they're at least a step in the right direction?
 
Cortez said:
It is already not allowed to carry a whip in dressage competition, unless you are competing sidesaddle.
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Unless things have changed since I last competed BD, the only time you couldn’t carry a whip at the lower levels eg Novice was if it was a championship and even then you could still warm up with it. It’s been a while for me so the rule could have changed.

I’d like to see a blanket ban on whips in the warm up and ring across the board, not just dressage.
 
Noooo!

How else will I open/close the yard gate on my hack?

I always carry a whip, mainly to help with the gate, but also in case of out of control dogs or motorists or dropped gloves.

I never hit my horse. My whip only normally touches her to brush off a fly I can't reach with my hand, or to lay down her shoulder to ask her to step over with her forelegs only when we need to get into a small passing place.

Other less ethical uses include tapping the husband on the shoulder and denying it or tickling his ear and pretending it is a fly.
 
Normally people report any misuse of a whip, spurs etc immediately because the whole idea is to save the horse from excess pain etc. This I can understand but this report I believe to be something more sinister. The incident that everyone seems to be incredibly over the top angry with happened 4 years ago. The person reporting this must have really been concerned with the welfare of the horse because it took 4 years to report. Then we also find out that it's reported about a week before the Olympics, now isn't that a coincidence? I think a little more investigation into this incident needs doing, don't you ? ;)
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
Normally people report any misuse of a whip, spurs etc immediately because the whole idea is to save the horse from excess pain etc. This I can understand but this report I believe to be something more sinister. The incident that everyone seems to be incredibly over the top angry with happened 4 years ago. The person reporting this must have really been concerned with the welfare of the horse because it took 4 years to report. The we also find out that it's reported about a week before the Olympics, now isn't that a coincidence? I think a little more investigation into this incident needs doing, don't you ? ;)
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Well, that's exactly what is happening, no? There is some dispute about when the incident occurred, 2.5 years or 4 years. And the timing of the complaint is irrelevant IMO.
 
I don't think I've ever used a crop/short whip. I have ridden with a long/dressage whip, never hit a horse with it, and only ever used it as a back up for my leg, so a tap or a light brush with it if needed. I would rather that than a boot in the ribs for my horses.

I taught my horse to do the Spanish walk originally with a long whip, tickled her leg until she flicked it out (no more than she would with a stubborn fly to get it off) rewarded, and then eventually replaced whip with a hand signal.

I use a lunge whip when freeschooling/lunging. She goes off voice but it's a useful reminder for distance as she often cuts the corners without it. Again, no contact with the horse, it's a visual aid.
 
Maybe if humans weren't such a******s in general, I always used a "crop" when riding my own (now retired) pony, it was used to re enforce my leg with a tap, not a smack or whipped, it was also safer when crossing busy roads, as when you needed to GO you needed to GO NOW, so a decent tap "if required" was safer if the "proper sqweeze" "NOT KICK" wasn't working, never ever needed to "whip" my lad, now I ride a friends mare, and have her on loan, she is frightened of men, so it's taken me a long time to get her trust, which I don't plan on losing, I hack her out without a crop, but I have used a crop in the menage with her for desensitizing work, such as hitting the side of the building panelling and fencing etc, and rubbing it over her body whilst riding, all for the purposes of trust building, anyone that doesn't know the difference between re enforcement and abuse maybe shouldn't be in the equestrian word at all.
Crops also useful when hacking for out of control dogs, mental car drivers, and sometimes humans.
 
scats said:
My whip out hacking is a horse fly swatter!
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Goldenstar said:
Blue loves the whip it’s a cleg remover .
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Have you gals( I presume) ever used one of these as a swatter https://www.amazon.co.uk/JTMKYO-Sim...526f3b1bb0a8392caa8fa6fb27f255da&gad_source=1

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I always ride with a jumping crop, I have 3 gates to go thru for my hacking and always use the crop to hold the gate open. Also very useful for flies plus it makes me feel safer riding around on my own after I had an interesting incident many years ago but never forgotten. My mare will get the occasional tap on the shoulder usually to stop her constant browsing of hedgerows just because you carry a crop doesn't mean your beating up your horse.
 
As a carriage driver - whip is an essential safety device to rebalance a horse which is bending away from something and keep the carriage moving straight. I once had a prang with a slow moving car which was could have been easily corrected if I had used the whip in the right place instead of trying to correct with the rein (you live and learn).

As a rider - I usually carry a whip, not least because my ride is entire. We don't need it. He's kind, responsive and well behaved in company. I carry it because it would be irresponsible not to. I give a light tap very occasionally if he is slow to respond to an aid, but mostly it gets used to indicate turns in traffic. He comes at the canter from the far corner of his 12 acre meadow; no food or treats required, so he must not consider me too much of a monster.
 
canteron said:
Interesting question - however if the alternative is endlessly kicking the horse in the ribs then who knows.

Training a backward thinking horse to be forward thinking is not taught very well? Talking of which has anyone bought the TRT module on a lazy horse - would like to see his method?
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If you find the lazy method let me know, its so guarded but I am incredibly curious!
 
I have always ridden my (naturally lazy) TB with a whip - I wouldn't get anywhere very quickly if I didn't - but only as a tap to back up my leg. I am teaching my niece to ride on him and I tell her too to use the whip if she needs to (again - with a light tap). For what its worth - she is actually very reluctant to use the whip - she has always had a gentle way with animals/other children (wherher this is a learnt behaviour or a natural response I don't know).

She is also very aware of the stories in the news about famous riders whipping/hitting horses - her and her horsey-friends at the riding school talk about it and all have expressed their horror of any kind of violence/cruelty to horses/animals - so maybe there is hope for the future?
 
Cortez said:
It is already not allowed to carry a whip in dressage competition, unless you are competing sidesaddle.
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I think you should mention that dressage riders in the paralympics are permitted 2 whips. When you're riding a horse & you have legs that don' work the whips do a similar job as legs would do.
 
SEL said:
I've only just seen the video but even before that I've been uncomfortable for some time with the use of whips - it's just so easy to escalate if something isn't going according to plan.

I walked away from an instructor who was whip heavy and went back to gently schooling my unbalanced pony so he felt comfortable giving me a more forward gait rather than it being bullied out of him. I've winced watching a video of a young relative at a riding school being told to "give him a smack"

I've walked away from another instructor who said it was just pressure and release and was told I needed the whip because I wasn't a strong enough rider. Well teach me better then.

I grew up from a very, very young age with the pony club kick and smack mentality and sadly I see it with too many instructors still.

When you think about it using a whip or even threatening the use of one is not ethical.
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Oh yes... the Pony Club 'kick and smack' mentality certainly lives on!

I carry a whip with mine but barely ever use it (it's just that one if mine can be a bit lazy at times).

I was at PC eventing a while back and was quite shocked at how whip-happy some of the teenagers were, but then again those whips are padded I guess. It's different on the yard, however, as the same girls seem to be very heavy-handed and I notice they change back to their old-school whips which really do hurt there. Just the other day one of them whacked her pant over the jump but giving it two hard whacks on the bum.
 
A year ago, Switzerland decided to ban whips in flat racing, to show a better picture to the general public.

That caused most of the trainers, owners and jockeys to be angry, they all thought that it would be the end of racing...

Nearly everyone in the industry thought that it was a bad decisions.

Well, a year on, and everyone is happy !

The jockeys are used to it now and everyone as accepted the new rule, it makes me wonder what it wasn't banned before !

Change is always scary at first but i am so glad that they did it !
 
So to go against the grain, I had lessons on Ziggy with a lovely lady who would I imagine have been very anti whip.
We used a schooling whip to tell Zig what we wanted. As In we wanted him to bring his off hind under so I’d touch, literally that hind every stride.
We wanted him to go into trot bum under so we taught him to trot with a very light whip at the top of his tail. It worked.
He is very whip happy. In fact I can chill him
Out if he gets antsy by stroking between his ears and round his head with my schooling whip. He definitely doesn’t see it as punishment
 
I think perhaps in non para competition, racing etc yes, but personally quite like my schooling whip as it’s good for making a sound if a car gets too close… I’m far to high up on big man for my foot to get involved for most cars. 😜

They do have their place schooling but it’s self control for people to not escalate and get out of control with them, and those people will not be a blind bit bothered by a ban and will continue with abusive practices behind close doors. Realistically unless we insist everyone must have a camera on every part of their yard you won’t stop the evil practices out there. All we can do is advocate and educate and hope.
 
BSJA has completely rewritten their rules:

New British Showjumping Rules for 2025
Use of the Padded Baton
1. The Padded Baton may only be used as an aid to support the natural aids in encouraging the horse forward, the Padded Baton may be used to support the shoulder to encourage the horse in the desired direction.
2. The Padded Baton must not be used to discipline or punish the horse/pony nor to vent an Athlete’s temper. Such use is always excessive.
3. If a Horse’s skin is broken or marked, as a result of the use of the Padded Baton, this is always considered excessive.
4. The Padded Baton must not be used more than 3 times in total whilst in the arena.
5. The Padded Baton is not to be used immediately after Refusal, Run Out or Elimination in either the competition or practice arena.
6. The arm must not come above the shoulder and the Padded Baton should contact behind the rider’s leg to reinforce the leg aid.
7. Where the Padded Baton is used to support the shoulder. The rider must retain both hands on the reins and apply contact and or direct pressure with the Padded Baton down the shoulder. No more than three contacts are allowed on the shoulder whilst in the arena.
8. Misuse of the Padded Baton in the arena, practice arena or anywhere on the show ground will result in disciplinary action being taken.
From the 1st January members will only be permitted to use the tack and equipment in the practice arena (with jumps) which is permitted in the competition arena for all levels of national classes.
Draw reins will be permitted to be worn for presentations if needed.
 
This is good, especially No 2 as it recognises some riders use it that way. Good on British Showjumping. Hello British Dressage time to stand up and have a few stricter ethical standards.

Edited to add -
Apart from the draw reins - not sure about that, but I suppose their use is at least in the conversation.
 
Mrs B said:
People do harm, not whips.
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People do harm with whips in the same way that people do harm with guns and cars. All items are harmless on their own but a potential danger when a human gets hold of them. Hence why my examples are both regulated and licensed (in the UK).

The use of the whip should also be regulated with its own use-appropriate measures. It’s a good start from BSJA. I hope it’s well enforced.
 
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