Showing - is it who you know or what you know?

[RachelFerd]

The point is that just following the rules in the rulebook isn't enough to protect you from turnout "expectations" that judges have. As in, plaiting a tail and using a different style/weight of bridle will be ok for the rules - but will still see you getting marked down. And my view on that is I'd rather take part in a competition to watch paint dry than be subjected to showing judging.

But there are rules for affiliated showing and rule books available on each societies website that tells you what turnout you need for your class. Doing your homework before going to any affiliated event is surely the most sensible thing to do.
I absolutely love showing was I perfect to start no, but I watched, I listened and I learned which is surely what everyone has to do no matter what discipline they compete in.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Who…

Who are you asking who to??

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

The point is that just following the rules in the rulebook isn't enough to protect you from turnout "expectations" that judges have. As in, plaiting a tail and using a different style/weight of bridle will be ok for the rules - but will still see you getting marked down. And my view on that is I'd rather take part in a competition to watch paint dry than be subjected to showing judging.

I did read the rule book and I’m
Sure the judges make some of it up as they go along. IMO his bridle does suit him but others don’t agree for example.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Where is the discussion of this show please? I had vaguely thought about doing ssadl next year with my horse but now wondering if I should. I can't see anything on their Facebook.

If you search for posts by SSADL in the search bar it’s a few posts down by a lady called Kay Vamplew and there are quite a few comments.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

I’ve also just read that five of the people who qualified for LIHS are at the same yard? may be coincidence but really?!

 

[doodle]

Gosh it seems like the whole thing is a bit of a car crash. I'll stick to dressage.

 

[Squeak]

I did read the rule book and I’m
Sure the judges make some of it up as they go along. IMO his bridle does suit him but others don’t agree for example.

Just wanted to clarify - I was one who said his bridle wasn’t right for showing but I think it does suit him

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I did read the rule book and I’m
Sure the judges make some of it up as they go along. IMO his bridle does suit him but others don’t agree for example.

I'm not judging you in any way but his bridle isn't right and it doesn't fit the cheek pieces should be at eye level not above the eye, with showing its the smaller details that stand out everything has to be correct.

He needs a slightly wider flat noseband doesn't have to be huge like the cobs wear more like a hunter type, you really need a proper wool numnah that fits your saddle and you should really have a navy velvet hat.

Unfortunately at that level these things matter and will make you stand out for all the wrong reasons, if you go to hoys or any other top show everyone uses practically the same stuff it's just how it is.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

I'm not judging you in any way but his bridle isn't right and it doesn't fit the cheek pieces should be at eye level not above the eye, with showing its the smaller details that stand out everything has to be correct.

He needs a slightly wider flat noseband doesn't have to be huge like the cobs wear more like a hunter type, you really need a proper wool numnah that fits your saddle and you should really have a navy velvet hat.

Unfortunately at that level these things matter and will make you stand out for all the wrong reasons, if you go to hoys or any other top show everyone uses practically the same stuff it's just how it is.

Oh I definitely agree on the hat front and also the cheek pieces - he would have to have a made to measure bridle because he is in between sizes. I hadn’t considered that about the cheek prices though, so good point.

 

[gallopingby]

There are some interesting comments on this thread. I think the most important things to remember is that you can compete and win against the pros IF you do things correctly.As PB says you absolutely have to look the same as everyone else, (the ones who are correct that is!). I heard someone complaining when they weren’t placed very high this year that they were ‘only amateurs’. That’s absolutely fine, no reason why you can’t go out and just have a fun day BUT if your turn out screams ‘I’m an amateur, l’ve bought x,y,z because l thought l should even though it doesn’t quite fit, don’t complain. Plenty people start out with second hand, correctly fitted kit. Just don’t argue that you tried your best when clearly you’re on a different path to the rest of the class.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Oh I definitely agree on the hat front and also the cheek pieces - he would have to have a made to measure bridle because he is in between sizes. I hadn’t considered that about the cheek prices though, so good point.

My Arab's have very short wide heads so they need pony cheek pieces cob nose band and full size browband, so I tend to buy brands where you can buy bits separately I just use shires bridles for everyday.

Most showing people use the fylde sheepskin numnahs you can often pick them up on ebay or Facebook.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

There are some interesting comments on this thread. I think the most important things to remember is that you can compete and win against the pros IF you do things correctly.As PB says you absolutely have to look the same as everyone else, (the ones who are correct that is!). I heard someone complaining when they weren’t placed very high this year that they were ‘only amateurs’. That’s absolutely fine, no reason why you can’t go out and just have a fun day BUT if your turn out screams ‘I’m an amateur, l’ve bought x,y,z because l thought l should even though it doesn’t quite fit, don’t complain. Plenty people start out with second hand, correctly fitted kit. Just don’t argue that you tried your best when clearly you’re on a different path to the rest of the class.

It is hard being up against pro riders I did it for years when I did Arab showing so you just accept they are going to beat you, just as I stopped it they started an amateur and home produced section which I would have loved, maybe I should try and have a go before my horses get to old.

 

[gallopingby]

It is hard being up against pro riders I did it for years when I did Arab showing so you just accept they are going to beat you, just as I stopped it they started an amateur and home produced section which I would have loved, maybe I should try and have a go before my horses get to old.

Yes go for it, nothing to loose and you’d have every chance of winnin

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I went showing with my friend her daughter did the age height classes so saw her do 12.2 classes then 13.2 classes she actually qualified that pony for hoys, I went to watch there were 25 in her class she came 11th and was the highest placed amateur quite an achievement, but they were very driven and she had 2 lessons a week and gave some of the producers a run for their money so it can be done.

I think people underestimate what it takes to produce a good show horse it's hard work and expensive.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Yes go for it, nothing to loose and you’d have every chance of winnin

Thank you I would need about a year to prepare for it I'm not the same person I was back then unfortunately

 

[quizzie]

I'm interested that the majority of the replies on this thread are detailing the minute niceties of presentation for showing, but no-one has picked up the comment that I made twice about lameness.....do I take it that lameness is acceptable in showing as long as you look right?....This was certainly the impression I gained at this show. I saw 3 lame behind, and another two, that if I was feeling charitable, I would have described as "showing their age" All placed above sound horses/ponies.

Additionally, in the information available about the marks/method of judging SSADL classes, the impression is given that suppleness for age/type and previous (competition) history are important...I have to say I saw no evidence of this having any influence...indeed, the reverse appeared to be true.

I wonder if one can place a bet on the winner at LIHS?..... From my observations on the day, I would place a sizeable bet, and expect it to pay out?!!

Equally, none of the above surprised me, but then I just went to give my old boy a bit of fun, now he is retired from the jumping disciplines.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I'm interested that the majority of the replies on this thread are detailing the minute niceties of presentation for showing, but no-one has picked up the comment that I made twice about lameness.....do I take it that lameness is acceptable in showing as long as you look right?....This was certainly the impression I gained at this show. I saw 3 lame behind, and another two, that if I was feeling charitable, I would have described as "showing their age" All placed above sound horses/ponies.

Additionally, in the information available about the marks/method of judging SSADL classes, the impression is given that suppleness for age/type and previous (competition) history are important...I have to say I saw no evidence of this having any influence...indeed, the reverse appeared to be true.

I wonder if one can place a bet on the winner at LIHS?..... From my observations on the day, I would place a sizeable bet, and expect it to pay out?!!

Equally, none of the above surprised me, but then I just went to give my old boy a bit of fun, now he is retired from the jumping disciplines.

Yes I have seen many lame horses in lots of different affiliated and local shows and some get placed even win I have seen them also come last and some have been asked to leave the ring.

 

[Squeak]

Oh I definitely agree on the hat front and also the cheek pieces - he would have to have a made to measure bridle because he is in between sizes. I hadn’t considered that about the cheek prices though, so good point.

If it's any help, in the past I've bought cheek pieces that are too long but were the right match for the bridle and got a saddler to shorten them to the right length and it cost hardly anything for them to do it.

 

[Squeak]

There are some interesting comments on this thread. I think the most important things to remember is that you can compete and win against the pros IF you do things correctly.As PB says you absolutely have to look the same as everyone else, (the ones who are correct that is!). I heard someone complaining when they weren’t placed very high this year that they were ‘only amateurs’. That’s absolutely fine, no reason why you can’t go out and just have a fun day BUT if your turn out screams ‘I’m an amateur, l’ve bought x,y,z because l thought l should even though it doesn’t quite fit, don’t complain. Plenty people start out with second hand, correctly fitted kit. Just don’t argue that you tried your best when clearly you’re on a different path to the rest of the class.

Second hand is really useful for showing. I probably spent a max of £100 for my browband, sheepskin numnah, stirrups, 2 x reins & pelham. The stirrups were the biggest winner as they were something like £2 as the plain iron ones are so out of fashion.

 

[Cortez]

I'm interested that the majority of the replies on this thread are detailing the minute niceties of presentation for showing, but no-one has picked up the comment that I made twice about lameness.....do I take it that lameness is acceptable in showing as long as you look right?....This was certainly the impression I gained at this show. I saw 3 lame behind, and another two, that if I was feeling charitable, I would have described as "showing their age" All placed above sound horses/ponies.

Additionally, in the information available about the marks/method of judging SSADL classes, the impression is given that suppleness for age/type and previous (competition) history are important...I have to say I saw no evidence of this having any influence...indeed, the reverse appeared to be true.

I wonder if one can place a bet on the winner at LIHS?..... From my observations on the day, I would place a sizeable bet, and expect it to pay out?!!

Equally, none of the above surprised me, but then I just went to give my old boy a bit of fun, now he is retired from the jumping disciplines.

Obviously I wasn’t there, but unless it was obvious, there could be a debate about whether a horse is lame or not. Some people see lameness all around them, some people are …..less observant shall we say

 

[minesadouble]

Regarding the soundness issue I see unsound horses in all disciplines.
I know a very successful dressage horse, local to me, that is persistently unsound but it seems this is no barrier to its dressage success. It's not an issue confined to showing.

I was brought up on showing, my mum breeds Riding Ponies. I've never encouraged my children to focus on showing but they have all enjoyed it alongside other disciplines.

I think a lot of people lack the ability to look at their own animal critically. I'm well aware of the flaws of all of our ponies/horses and can look at them with a judges eye and see where they will lose marks. I don't take it personally when one of ours is marked down. We've had days when I feel we've been harshly done to but I have to say we have had more days when I've felt the judge has been generous.

Whatever sport you're involved in it's important that competing is a good/fun day out. If you come away bitter and disappointed you can decide to up your game, or look for something you enjoy more.

I've never been involved in Veteran showing but it doesn't have the best reputation. When the Veteran Societies started up I know at least one of them didn't have a formal judges assessment, people simply volunteered to be on the panel, maybe this is part of the issue.

Showing has its faults but I've had great fun over the years, with my own ponies and then subsequently my daughters' ponies and horses. My youngest daughter has never had any interest in showing but is now doing WHP and loving it. We have our last BSPS show of the season on Sunday and she's desperate to be our Area WHP points Champion this year!
She's had some great successes, ridden at beautiful venues and County Shows, made new friends, been to BSPS camp and clinics and I've watched her grow in confidence throughout the year. Showing is definitely not as black as it's painted.

 

[quizzie]

Obviously I wasn’t there, but unless it was obvious, there could be a debate about whether a horse is lame or not. Some people see lameness all around them, some people are …..less observant shall we say

It was obvious, but it was hindleg, which seems to be a blind-spot for a surprising number of people....

 

[quizzie]

I've never been involved in Veteran showing but it doesn't have the best reputation. When the Veteran Societies started up I know at least one of them didn't have a formal judges assessment, people simply volunteered to be on the panel, maybe this is part of the issue.

Interesting! ...and would explain a lot!

I also think it is an impossible class to judge as you can have everything from a small pony, who at 20 years old is in the prime of its life...to an 18hh hunter, who at 20 years old, after a career of competing or hunting, is a relative rarity to still be sound/ridden......and of course if the judge has a particular interest in a particular type, then they may have less knowledge of the type/turnout/way of going/conformation of another type and/or may simply like a pretty pony or a cob or a coloured etc etc..... it's a bit like being the judge for best in show at Crufts!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

This is us at the championships last week.

Without seeing the other horses hard to comment, but I think you both look great, fit and beautifully turned out.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Presentation, Manner, Way of Going, Movement - out if 50.

This one means how well your turned out, how mannerly your horse is under saddle, how well schooled they are and how well they move.

Next on the list is - Manners, Condition, Type/Breed, Equine History - out of 30.

Not sure why they have Manners in a 2nd time.

I know nothing of horse showing but in livestock shows they separate "manner" =how they carry themselves, bearing, energy, haughtyness , from "manners" = politeness, ease of handling.
e.g. for a bull show, manner is 'does he strut in like he owns the ring', manners is 'does the judge need to stand behind something' !

 

[Glitter's fun]

Discuss - as title.

Been a bit of an eye opener for me - when competing in a LlHS qualifier but have been told it is similar in HOYS qualifiers too.

Never had any issues at local unaffiliated level but affiliated showing seems to be a completely different ball game has anybody else experienced similar?

Your horse is lovely and very beautifully turned out to a lay person's eye but you are entering a new world with very picky requirements, not all of which are written down. Could you make an appointment with a successful show producer, turn up as what you are calling "show perfect" & ask for a detailed critique?

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Your horse is lovely and very beautifully turned out to a lay person's eye but you are entering a new world with very picky requirements, not all of which are written down. Could you make an appointment with a successful show producer, turn up as what you are calling "show perfect" & ask for a detailed critique?

I paid for this at a clinic and I got told to buy another horse. I told him this was the one I had so to help me do the best with what I have. It was quite humiliating as everyone laughed. I was not amused

So if you are going to do this then I would be prepared for the above scenario. I paid for this privilege. I kept going just to spite them all but I’m done with it now.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Errinpaddywhack -
It’s really hard to place where my boy is best suited as he has pintaloosa markings but clear appaloosa characteristics but unfortunately is not accepted in appaloosa part bred classes because of his coat pattern which is a shame. Have you ever found that certain judges in normal classes just do not like the Appaloosa type? I know they are like marmite…

I have no idea these days. Back when I first started showing which was the 70's, spotties were really frowned on. My husband related overhearing a conversation one day between two ladies showing ponies. The one was talking about a pony she had that sadly had spots. The other was horrified and asked if it was very badly spotted. Another time saw a really lovely pony, spotted but not loud markings and it was well down the line in a pony class. The judge told the handler that if it hadn't been spotted it would have been near the top of the line. Prejudice was rife back then.

 

[Cortez]

I have no idea these days. Back when I first started showing which was the 70's, spotties were really frowned on. My husband related overhearing a conversation one day between two ladies showing ponies. The one was talking about a pony she had that sadly had spots. The other was horrified and asked if it was very badly spotted. Another time saw a really lovely pony, spotted but not loud markings and it was well down the line in a pony class. The judge told the handler that if it hadn't been spotted it would have been near the top of the line. Prejudice was rife back then.

Yup, that's showing, and if you want to do it you have to accept the way it works as it's not going to change to suit you. Of course it can still be fun, it's expecting to win that sours the experience for some people.

 

[humblepie]

On veteran types etc, I think it must be difficult comparing ages and different breeds. I have always shown plaited horses but I can still appreciate a really nice M & M or a part bred Arab for example but would I know if they were true to type, no, but then I don't judge and am not on any panels. I have a fairly good knowledge of conformation but not breed specific.

I do always think the ex racehorses who raced at 2 should be able to add a couple of years onto their age as they were working before most of the others had given their future day job a thought......