Showing - is it who you know or what you know?

[quizzie]

OP - look at the Veteran Horse Society instead.

I've never been involved in Veteran showing but it doesn't have the best reputation. When the Veteran Societies started up I know at least one of them didn't have a formal judges assessment, people simply volunteered to be on the panel, maybe this is part of the issue.

Having looked at the different application processes, judges lists with other panels that they are members of, and training/assessment of judges of the two main veteran societies, I can understand the reason behind these comments!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Why are plaited tails so frowned upon in showing, and sneered at as being something that only an amateur would rock up with?

Tail pulling is cruel and outmoded. Yes, I used to pull tails too before I realised what an abomination the procedure is.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Why are plaited tails so frowned upon in showing, and sneered at as being something that only amateur would rock up with?

Tail pulling is cruel and outmoded. Yes, I used to pull tails too before I realised what an abomination the procedure is.

In my exeriance its not that they are frowned upon, just more likely to be poorly done. I think the pro's tend not to do it as I think its more work to keep a tail perfectly plaitable and in place all day at a show, where'as a 'pulled' look is less prep/ work on the day. Just my thoughts, I've never come across a judge marking down for a well done plaited tail.

 

[RachelFerd]

There are some interesting comments on this thread. I think the most important things to remember is that you can compete and win against the pros IF you do things correctly.As PB says you absolutely have to look the same as everyone else, (the ones who are correct that is!). I heard someone complaining when they weren’t placed very high this year that they were ‘only amateurs’. That’s absolutely fine, no reason why you can’t go out and just have a fun day BUT if your turn out screams ‘I’m an amateur, l’ve bought x,y,z because l thought l should even though it doesn’t quite fit, don’t complain. Plenty people start out with second hand, correctly fitted kit. Just don’t argue that you tried your best when clearly you’re on a different path to the rest of the class.

Everything you've described here is why showing is just terrible for it's totally non-inclusive behaviour and secret cult like standards.

I paid for this at a clinic and I got told to buy another horse. I told him this was the one I had so to help me do the best with what I have. It was quite humiliating as everyone laughed. I was not amused

So if you are going to do this then I would be prepared for the above scenario. I paid for this privilege. I kept going just to spite them all but I’m done with it now.

Sorry you had that kind of experience. As per the post above, this is why I think showing is the least inclusive of all of the disciplines. Because in any other competition, it is about what you and your horse can DO and you can train that improvement. In showing, if your horse doesn't fit into a specific 'type' or category - you might as well just go home. And even if they do fit into a type, but have a conformation fault, you can train them as well as you like and you can achieve far more than a horse with perfect conformation, but you still can't progress.

Why are plaited tails so frowned upon in showing, and sneered at as being something that only an amateur would rock up with?

Tail pulling is cruel and outmoded. Yes, I used to pull tails too before I realised what an abomination the procedure is.

On this one though, most the showing producers I've met do tend to use scissors to create the pulled look rather than actually pull. But it is entirely this attitude of a secret code for what looks amateur/pro that you're only going to know by knowing the right people, which I absolutely hate.

 

[humblepie]

I think though don’t know that type and conformation would go back to when you were showing off your animals for bloodlines, breeding or sale. There used to be the Hunter Improvement Society - hoping that is right - which became again I think Sports Horse GB. The riding horse is a fairly modern invention to fill the gap for horses not elegant or with the movement of a hack and the bigger hunter type. The hack was your elegant horse to show off to others as you paraded down Park Lane. I adore the elegance of a true hack - not an overgrown pony- shown with the style of one of the great show riders.

A good plaited tail is very smart and some of the race horses are turned out amazingly. I think a pulled tail can show the quarters off better though as you can sculpt it if you know what you’re doing. I don’t !

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Why are plaited tails so frowned upon in showing, and sneered at as being something that only an amateur would rock up with?

Tail pulling is cruel and outmoded. Yes, I used to pull tails too before I realised what an abomination the procedure is.

It's just at the higher levels no one will plait tails so you will look out of place a bit like alot of things really.

Most people use clippers and scissors to get the desired look.

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

Spotty pony you asked is it who or what you know …it’s who…

 

[minesadouble]

Spotty pony you asked is it who or what you know …it’s who…

Not always otherwise I just wouldn't bother!

 

[minesadouble]

Deleted - I posted a comment about the ridden Champ and realised I was looking at the wrong year

 

[AdorableAlice]

Spotty pony you asked is it who or what you know …it’s who…

I have to disagree at the top level. The pro producers do well because they source the best quality stock and know how to educate and produce them.

My hunter beat all of them in the 3 years he was competing. A horse produced by a true amateur. The only horse he could not beat, but stood reserve to in many hunter championships was Loughern Dancing Lord. If your horse is good enough you will do well and you can take the pro's on. A number of them followed me back to the lorry park and tried to buy him and offered to have him with me remaining as owner. I declined and the horse is still with me at rising 30 years of age. I would have had no pleasure in placing the horse with Robert Oliver or David Tatlow. The late Robert Oliver said I was the amateur taking the prize money from the professionals and the horse should not be in the open classes, after one very memorable day at Addington Hunter Festival when my horse took both amateur and open sections.

This horse took me to Hoy's and gave me the best moments of pleasure and pride that I will treasure forever.

The problem many people have is that they think their horse is top class when it isn't. There are very few truly conformationally correct horses, with exceptional paces, with exceptional presence and manners. All of this is needed to do well as a show horse of any type or breed.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Why are plaited tails so frowned upon in showing, and sneered at as being something that only an amateur would rock up with?

Tail pulling is cruel and outmoded. Yes, I used to pull tails too before I realised what an abomination the procedure is.

I hate the pulled tail look - I hate the cobs with the clipped tail look even more! When I used to show my cob I used to rake the sides so it still looked quite natural and also wasn’t cruel and painful like pulling. I had no idea plaiting the tail would be frowned on tbh - I thought it originated from
Showing?! Don’t show ponies get shown with plaited tails?

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Everything you've described here is why showing is just terrible for it's totally non-inclusive behaviour and secret cult like standards.



Sorry you had that kind of experience. As per the post above, this is why I think showing is the least inclusive of all of the disciplines. Because in any other competition, it is about what you and your horse can DO and you can train that improvement. In showing, if your horse doesn't fit into a specific 'type' or category - you might as well just go home. And even if they do fit into a type, but have a conformation fault, you can train them as well as you like and you can achieve far more than a horse with perfect conformation, but you still can't progress.


On this one though, most the showing producers I've met do tend to use scissors to create the pulled look rather than actually pull. But it is entirely this attitude of a secret code for what looks amateur/pro that you're only going to know by knowing the right people, which I absolutely hate.

Years ago, I went to Equifest with my cob. I had no idea on classes so I entered him in the Open Hunter class even though he was more cob type. He was tiny next to the big hunters (he was 15.3hh) but he came 3rd in a very big class because the judge said although he wasn’t the right type he was so well schooled that he deserved the placing. That is the opposite end of the scale -again that is someone’s opinion. Another judge may have put me last just because he wasn’t the right ‘type’.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It really isn't WHO you know 95% of the time. Honestly!

@AdorableAlice Loughern Dancing Lord was some serious horse! Beautiful to look at and looked like a dream to ride!

 

[AdorableAlice]

It really isn't WHO you know 95% of the time. Honestly!

@AdorableAlice Loughern Dancing Lord was some serious horse! Beautiful to look at and looked like a dream to ride!

We always stood on his left ! The was Monmouth, my 17.2 MW looking like a pony stood by Dancing Lord.

 

[fetlock]

I hate the pulled tail look - I hate the cobs with the clipped tail look even more! When I used to show my cob I used to rake the sides so it still looked quite natural and also wasn’t cruel and painful like pulling. I had no idea plaiting the tail would be frowned on tbh - I thought it originated from
Showing?! Don’t show ponies get shown with plaited tails?

No, re show ponies.

Though in the very distant past, it wasn’t uncommon to see plaited tails in inhand riding pony young stock and stallion classes.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

We always stood on his left ! The was Monmouth, my 17.2 MW looking like a pony stood by Dancing Lord.

At least you were consistent and couldn't have been beaten by a better horse.

 

[AdorableAlice]

At least you were consistent and couldn't have been beaten by a better horse.

Thank you. 2006 to 2010 was an amazing era for show hunters.