So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[RachelFerd]

I guess that is dependent on how you view competitions. Even when doing BE Novice, I rode each one as a training event as well as a competition. For me, it is all about improving the horse at every outing cpmpetition or not.

I like competitions as

1. I like the social.
2. I can get complacent at home and like to go to an external competition to ride a set of circumstances that I didn't set up for personal success. I like that it calls me out on my complacency and it keeps me real.
3. I like the photos.
4. I like to be part of something.
5. Success is sweet.

Well, every time you sit on a horse you're training it, so yes competition is also training. But often competition turns into 'untraining' because something goes wrong, and the competition environment doesn't allow it to be resolved properly. And yet people will keep going out and getting eliminated over and over again?!?

 

[palo1]

I guess that is dependent on how you view competitions. Even when doing BE Novice, I rode each one as a training event as well as a competition. For me, it is all about improving the horse at every outing cpmpetition or not.

I like competitions as

1. I like the social.
2. I can get complacent at home and like to go to an external competition to ride a set of circumstances that I didn't set up for personal success. I like that it calls me out on my complacency and it keeps me real.
3. I like the photos.
4. I like to be part of something.
5. Success is sweet.

Alternatively, novice riders see the 'competition' as the end game so train for those particular requirements, they are not 'ready' when they arrive at the competition and it is hard so perhaps not much is learnt or taken home, or they may have been coached to that competition and no further. Photos are nice of course. Training can provide a really fab community without the 'stress' or expenditure of competition and we would all benefit from more training opportunities. Success is sweet but a disappointing day at a comp is very disheartening.

 

[Red-1]

Well, every time you sit on a horse you're training it, so yes competition is also training. But often competition turns into 'untraining' because something goes wrong, and the competition environment doesn't allow it to be resolved properly. And yet people will keep going out and getting eliminated over and over again?!?

Alternatively, novice riders see the 'competition' as the end game so train for those particular requirements, they are not 'ready' when they arrive at the competition and it is hard so perhaps not much is learnt or taken home, or they may have been coached to that competition and no further. Photos are nice of course. Training can provide a really fab community without the 'stress' or expenditure of competition and we would all benefit from more training opportunities. Success is sweet but a disappointing day at a comp is very disheartening.

Well, I modify my answer than to specify that competition is only useful training if the horse and rider are prepared for that level! LOL. Anyone being eliminated over and over again, I would hope it would be obvious that more training is necessary. But that is the same at any level. My BE record is respectable, usually complete with clear XC. Any less than that, we dropped down a level to train more, iron out the wrinkles and go back to be tested at the higher level when prepared. You sometimes need the spotlight of the competition to see the holes though, or at least I did.

But that is kind of my point too, as baby horse and I were indeed ready to do our first prelim, for example, as we did a super test (and in fact won) so it was positive. We didn't need to be ready to do a medium to do a competition. The two intros had got him out of his shell - the first intro he did he actually fell to walk up the centre line as he felt somewhat overawed. The second intro was much improved, so we did the prelim. The clear round was where we were at, and we did a clear round. It needed to be small, for him, though, as again he felt shy and so the smaller jumps ensured it was about him feeling comfortable rather than about the jumping. Next time, we plan on bigger. Although, were he a hot and athletic one, we may have needed to be ready for a higher level of competition for the training to be advanced enough for the collecting ring even, a with my previous competition horses.

My point is that, as long as the combination is prepared for the level at which they compete, and as long as the basic training is there to cope with the eventualities of being in a busy atmosphere, then there is no harm in an intro, or 40cm jumping, or 50cm hunter trial.

All horses and riders are different, you can't compare apples with pears. Competitions per se are not the enemy, even at the lowest levels.

The cruellest rider I ever saw was someone prepping for the London 2012 Olympics. Horse beaten unmercifully. Crap riding occurs at all levels. IMO, it isn't the level that matters, as long as horse and rider are appropriately prepared for the level they aspire to.

 

[TPO]

My point is that, as long as the combination is prepared for the level at which they compete, and as long as the basic training is there to cope with the eventualities of being in a busy atmosphere, then there is no harm in an intro, or 40cm jumping, or 50cm hunter trial.

IME of rl and sm the problem is that there *are* people out doing x, y and z who aren't prepared, able or educated about what level their training should be at.

I've literally just seen a video on sm of someone who can't even trot half a circle on the "eventer" they bought who's out doing BE. There's a plethora of pro pics showing how great their day was and their awful position is very negatively affecting the horse. The SM brigade, and can only assume friends and trainers in rl, are all very encouraging.

I know be80 is "training" but perhaps that needs to extend to 90 & have the riders watched a lot closer.

My thoughts are similar to MP, RF and Palo I think (no offence if wrong and tarring you with my bad brush) but I want to be good and capable before I go anywhere so I practice and train. If you seriously can't trot and canter circles,meet take off points, sit in balance and be with your horse over a fence then you shouldn't be "eventing" until you've mastered the basics regardless of if it'd 40cm or 100cm.

Now its all about being an "eventer" like its an exclusive club you can buy into rather than train for.

 

[honetpot]

Alternatively, novice riders see the 'competition' as the end game so train for those particular requirements, they are not 'ready' when they arrive at the competition and it is hard so perhaps not much is learnt or taken home, or they may have been coached to that competition and no further. Photos are nice of course. Training can provide a really fab community without the 'stress' or expenditure of competition and we would all benefit from more training opportunities. Success is sweet but a disappointing day at a comp is very disheartening.

I think people underestimate how tiring the XC is both mentally and physically on them and the horse. Practising the components of a competition in training is not the same thing in effort terms as completing it in one go. People very rarely ride for more than an hour in trot and canter on uneven ground, with the physical adjustments that needs, where I live you would have to travel to find a hill. So even if you are practicing and getting right the jumping efforts in training, in a real event you have nerves, distractions, and both the and the horses level of overall fitness to take into account.
If you think of competitive ice skaters, they spend hours in training, just to get the jump perfect, their routines are judged on the difficulty of the jump, and they have a set number to complete in competition, but even at top level in competition they will either modify the jump to something easier, or fall. Just because they can do a jump in training, they factor in that they may not be able to pull it off on the day of competition.
The last time I when to our local ODE, which is a centre, so the fences are a BE level, I was amazed at how many riders and horses did not look what I would call hunting fit, if I was the owner of the animal I would not be happy.

 

[Red-1]

IME of rl and sm the problem is that there *are* people out doing x, y and z who aren't prepared, able or educated about what level their training should be at.

I've literally just seen a video on sm of someone who can't even trot half a circle on the "eventer" they bought who's out doing BE. There's a plethora of pro pics showing how great their day was and their awful position is very negatively affecting the horse. The SM brigade, and can only assume friends and trainers in rl, are all very encouraging.

I know be80 is "training" but perhaps that needs to extend to 90 & have the riders watched a lot closer.

My thoughts are similar to MP, RF and Palo I think (no offence if wrong and tarring you with my bad brush) but I want to be good and capable before I go anywhere so I practice and train. If you seriously can't trot and canter circles,meet take off points, sit in balance and be with your horse over a fence then you shouldn't be "eventing" until you've mastered the basics regardless of if it'd 40cm or 100cm.

Now its all about being an "eventer" like its an exclusive club you can buy into rather than train for.

And I don't think that anyone would argue that the riders you highlight should be out eventing. But, to me, that isn't a reason to invalidate the whole height range.

 

[milliepops]

And I don't think that anyone would argue that the riders you highlight should be out eventing. But, to me, that isn't a reason to invalidate the whole height range.

it's not, but the problem (if we agree there is one) is that most people on anything other than an 8hh pony can to a degree point and shoot round the smaller courses and the if the horse is honest enough it will make it happen. in a way that you just couldn't manage, or would be put off from trying, round bigger courses. the inviting nature might be too inviting?

 

[ester]

I guess that is dependent on how you view competitions. Even when doing BE Novice, I rode each one as a training event as well as a competition. For me, it is all about improving the horse at every outing cpmpetition or not.

I like competitions as

1. I like the social.
2. I can get complacent at home and like to go to an external competition to ride a set of circumstances that I didn't set up for personal success. I like that it calls me out on my complacency and it keeps me real.
3. I like the photos.
4. I like to be part of something.
5. Success is sweet.

I think I only know a couple of people who compete for the results (to win/place etc) for most it's a nice add on to the day if it happens.

 

[Rowreach]

Just in from work and catching up, and there are some interesting departures from the original OP that bring us right around to this, if I’m reading you correctly:

Novicey horse and rider combinations shouldn’t be going out competing anywhere, so presumably that covers both UA and A competitions. So that wont beef up entries for BE, it will mean everyone trains at home until they’re able to come out at a higher level, which brings us back to BE starting at the old Novice level, which was financially unsustainable until they introduced grass roots levels.

What exactly do you all want to happen? No opportunity for anyone to compete, ever, and only the elite ever get enough training in to get out at BE?

Some of the comments read as if people want to do their shopping at an expensive independent grocer with restricted opening hours, and are pissed off that others who need to eat find Tesco cheaper and more convenient.

Not all amateur riders are sh*t scared you know. Some of them have realised that in amongst every other aspect of a busy life, going out and having a cracking day out with their horse over less challenging heights is simply bloody great fun, and for those who can still afford it, good luck to them.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I ride at 50/60cm and the idea that anyone thinks it is impacting BE is quite surprising to me.

I find it hard to get my head around anyone riding at a higher level is bothered about the riders that are making their way around an unaffiliated 50cm on a Saturday morning for a fun day out - just as wouldn't expect a high level endurance rider to care about my 20km ride or a team GB Trec rider to care about my paltry PTV score.

Riding for me isn't at all about going BE as an end goal. I have zero desire to ever do a BE (or really jump higher than I am currently) so why shouldn't I go out for a morning training, or heaven forbid competing, over a local 50 or 60cm course if I fancy it?

It's not taking money or entries away from BE as I'd never spend it there anyway. If the 50 or 60cm courses didn't exist, that money I spent just wouldn't be going to anyone in the industry - the trainer of the clinics, the clear round or XC event organisers, the local photographers or the family running the burger van.

 

[milliepops]

I don't want no one to ever be able to go out and compete and my comment about coming out at a higher level was mainly to do with one particular nightmare of a horse rather than a general principle, but I suppose the general principle behind it was relating to not using competition to learn all your skills, but honing them in a training setting. Mainly because in training you can be safer, can repeat things, can have assistance, can use technique and knowledge instead of relying on adrenaline (can also have social stuff, photos and so on )

Lets face it none of this discussion is going to have any impact on what happens in the competition scene so it's all just people spouting their opinions but equally... the current situation is not really working either, with aff and unaff events cancelling or clashing, the whole thing is kind of broken and that's not good for anyone, grass roots or top elite.

So it would seem something has to change, and proliferation of unaff opportunities with no structure doesn't appear to be the great idea some thought previously. at least a coordinated approach to a whole-discipline calendar would help to avoid the peaks and troughs of supply and demand (accept that BE effed that up in the past but i don't think anyone is arguing for the BE of old tbh).

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Just in from work and catching up, and there are some interesting departures from the original OP that bring us right around to this, if I’m reading you correctly:

Novicey horse and rider combinations shouldn’t be going out competing anywhere, so presumably that covers both UA and A competitions. So that wont beef up entries for BE, it will mean everyone trains at home until they’re able to come out at a higher level, which brings us back to BE starting at the old Novice level, which was financially unsustainable until they introduced grass roots levels.

What exactly do you all want to happen? No opportunity for anyone to compete, ever, and only the elite ever get enough training in to get out at BE?

Some of the comments read as if people want to do their shopping at an expensive independent grocer with restricted opening hours, and are pissed off that others who need to eat find Tesco cheaper and more convenient.

Not all amateur riders are sh*t scared you know. Some of them have realised that in amongst every other aspect of a busy life, going out and having a cracking day out with their horse over less challenging heights is simply bloody great fun, and for those who can still afford it, good luck to them.

100% this. And as well as those just wanting to have fun, it’s inaccurate to assume 50/60cm jumpers can’t possibly be serious about their riding and genuinely thrilled with a clear round or placing. Plus lots of people like a tangible target in sport which a specific challenge or event offers. I do like RF’s idea of training competitions though. Eland do some and I think they are a great idea. Something to work towards is very motivating, hence the popularity of couch too 5K.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Re not riding when you are scared.

Further to the pics I posted earlier of the long ago RC XC clinic. Horse and I were flying that day. I am more of a dressage rider, so don't do much of this leaving the ground malarky.

After sailing over this spread, I had a rush of blood to the head and decided that we would be ok to go on and jump the considerably higher and wider option beside it, like the braver riders were doing.



As we approached, I thought 'feck it, that's big ?!', took my leg off and stopping riding forwards to the fence. Horse picked up on my hesitation, agreed with me that it was indeed rather big and that he'd save us and he jammed on the brakes, firing me into the jump. Ouch.

Pride comes before a fall ?.

 

[TPO]

I dont thonk it's about if someone is doing 30cm or 1.3m it's about being competent at whatever level they choose.

There's people who can't ride a trot, let alone canter, a circle in balance or do basic pole exercise while having any control over gait, rhythm and take off etc before you consider riding across country, adaptable position in balance and being able to get a horse to the fence safely.

If people can ride well on the flat and do the basics then grand if they want to compete at a level suitable to them. I think the issue is there's people with no foundation or basics, are basically bad riders that are negatively affecting the horse, and they are "eventers" doing things above their ability level be that 40cm or 120cm.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But this whole digression from the OP (BE's problems) stemmed frrom Patterdale saying many of the problems was riders being 'wetter than they used to be' and having been told by LG that and there was 'no point' just jumping 60 and SM normalising a culture of fear and timidity around riding. Which actually does not apply to the riders you are talking about. If anything the riders you have an issue with (quite rightly) are the LAST ones to be told to just hold tight and kick on or encouraged to go up the levels rather than stay at 50/60/70.

But this discussion has now morphed into too many confusing directions now. And I think we all probably agree more than we disagree just are coming at the dicussion from totally different angles and are therefore actually talking about slightly different things!

I will be very interested to see what BE do calendar wise next year. I think a lot of people are optimistic about some of the changes so fingers crossed there are some more rational decisions and a less fractured season.

 

[Rowreach]

100% this. And as well as those just wanting to have fun, it’s inaccurate to assume 50/60cm jumpers can’t possibly be serious about their riding and genuinely thrilled with a clear round or placing. Plus lots of people like a tangible target in sport which a specific challenge or event offers. I do like RF’s idea of training competitions though. Eland do some and I think they are a great idea. Something to work towards is very motivating, hence the popularity of couch too 5K.

Everyone should move to Ireland, we have masses of training competitions and a brilliant hunter trial scene ?

 

[Red-1]

Maybe the BE competitions could have an accredited trainer in the collecting rings at all times? To ensure the safety of all?

Wouldn't bother me. Don't know how it would be paid for though as, if they were going to 'spin' people, they would have to be qualified.

 

[RachelFerd]

Maybe the BE competitions could have an accredited trainer in the collecting rings at all times? To ensure the safety of all?

Wouldn't bother me. Don't know how it would be paid for though as, if they were going to 'spin' people, they would have to be qualified.

Used to be the case when it was a BE80(T) was cut out in spending cuts sadly

 

[palo1]

I ride at 50/60cm and the idea that anyone thinks it is impacting BE is quite surprising to me.

I find it hard to get my head around anyone riding at a higher level is bothered about the riders that are making their way around an unaffiliated 50cm on a Saturday morning for a fun day out - just as wouldn't expect a high level endurance rider to care about my 20km ride or a team GB Trec rider to care about my paltry PTV score.

Riding for me isn't at all about going BE as an end goal. I have zero desire to ever do a BE (or really jump higher than I am currently) so why shouldn't I go out for a morning training, or heaven forbid competing, over a local 50 or 60cm course if I fancy it?

It's not taking money or entries away from BE as I'd never spend it there anyway. If the 50 or 60cm courses didn't exist, that money I spent just wouldn't be going to anyone in the industry - the trainer of the clinics, the clear round or XC event organisers, the local photographers or the family running the burger van.

I think your mindset and experience are different to the things that have b

I ride at 50/60cm and the idea that anyone thinks it is impacting BE is quite surprising to me.

I find it hard to get my head around anyone riding at a higher level is bothered about the riders that are making their way around an unaffiliated 50cm on a Saturday morning for a fun day out - just as wouldn't expect a high level endurance rider to care about my 20km ride or a team GB Trec rider to care about my paltry PTV score.

Riding for me isn't at all about going BE as an end goal. I have zero desire to ever do a BE (or really jump higher than I am currently) so why shouldn't I go out for a morning training, or heaven forbid competing, over a local 50 or 60cm course if I fancy it?

It's not taking money or entries away from BE as I'd never spend it there anyway. If the 50 or 60cm courses didn't exist, that money I spent just wouldn't be going to anyone in the industry - the trainer of the clinics, the clear round or XC event organisers, the local photographers or the family running the burger van.

I don't think riders in your situation are having an impact on BE at all and it sounds like you are having a blast doing what you enjoy. I 'think' it is riders who want BE lite (ie they DO want to do the BE style eventing) that are impacting on a flawed BE system. I too have no desire (and no financial wherewithal) to do BE but I can see that if I wanted to 'go eventing' then UA would be cheaper and might appeal in some ways at the 'lower' levels - I would perceive that offer as 'easier' and less intimidating and that is the point at which I think there are problems. I don't think it matters what people do with their horses as long as horse and rider are happy but within a competitive framework where safety and fairness are really important I guess UA and Aff comps need to do better all round.

 

[conniegirl]

Not all amateur riders are sh*t scared you know. Some of them have realised that in amongst every other aspect of a busy life, going out and having a cracking day out with their horse over less challenging heights is simply bloody great fun, and for those who can still afford it, good luck to them

And then there are those like me who have had nasty falls In the past and feel they now have too much to lose to risk a similar heavy fall.
Since my last nasty fall I’ve had a baby, i can no longer risk the bigger, faster courses as the chance of a life altering injury is so much higher. So I will pootle round the 50cm course where me and my 13.2hh pony are comfortable, we shall have a jolly good time knowing that if I get it wrong it is well within his scope to get me out of trouble and our likelyhood of hitting the deck hard is minimised.

If i didn’t have a baby i would absolutely be out there doing more, probably on a young horse with bags of potential and a lot of dragon in it m, but My daughter must come first for me and I cannot be the mum I want to be if i have a spinal injury.

 

[LEC]

I just think there is a real problem in this country about training vs competing. Most other countries tend to have more emphasis on training. In USA it often goes too far with hand holding by having your trainer there for every phase.
I also think a lot of people come to the sport with no horsemanship or skills so they learn them on the way often at rhe expense of the horse.
I am probably an over trainer but experience has taught me it pays off longer term. I stick to the same trainers ans have to suck up what they tell me as sometimes I don’t want to hear it. Sometimes there is a lack of confidence as well because things have been ropey.
There needs to be more self reflection and listening to people but this isn’t the fault of BE - it’s a cultural thing.

 

[anguscat]

It is really sad and as I say, I have nothing to do with eventing these days (though enjoy watching it at times). Back in the day though, forgive me for dredging up ancient history and the glory days of eventing, on the whole competitive riders didn't want, need or see the point in 'competing' at anything below novice level. That meant there were enough competitors to make BE 'work' properly for more people imo.

At Riding Schools, jumping tended to start at 2ft (60cm) and on the whole that wouldn't have been seen as anything other than basic riding. I remember the lowest height at hunter trials and so on being around 75-80cm with loads of keen ponies and children entering. And sometimes me lol!!

I know that people want something for everyone and that young horses and young/novice riders need to learn but the 'competition for everyone' model just makes every slice of the cake terribly thin. It is relatively easy for ECs to run lower level unaff comps and give a feeling of success to more people which is lovely but if that is killing off the pathway and desire for more ambitious riding then that seems daft to me. At some point Unaff events will find they need an overseeing organisation and if BE has died then they will be stuffed too!!

I know bog all about it but in wider terms our culture of 'fear' (possibly through lack of really good, solid instruction) and the 'championship for everyone' in equestrianism seem to me to be genuinely doing a disservice to the kind of solid, courageous, knowledgeable and considered riding skills that eventing should be fostering. I know we don't need eventing or any other equine discipline and I am absolutely not saying that unaff stuff isn't about 'good' riding but by fragmenting a sport/discipline you necessarily lose quality. Sort of glad I have no money and therefore cannot dream of eventing as it is all very frustrating!!

Yep…I’m in my 60s. When I was a teenager the lowest class for SJ at my
local shows was 2’9” (83cm) and that often included a proper wall and a treble.

 

[GoldenWillow]

I have followed this thread from the start and found it fascinating in all it's twists and turns. I come from SJ background, affiliated and unaffiliated, but developed an interest, mainly from the sidelines, in eventing when moving to a very eventing based livery yard in 2000. Growing up BSJA, as it was then, horse classes started with Newcomers and BE at Novice, unaffiliated SJ and Hunter Trials you had two classes, novice approx 2'9" and open 3'3" and upwards. Hunter trials ponies jumped the horse Open class. There has been a huge change in many things in this time but reading this thread makes me wonder how the other disciplines are faring and how they have developed.

The thing that struck me moving to the eventing yard was how little "local" events there were and how far they travelled to event. Probably around 2/3 within an hour in a year the rest would be 2hrs+ travelling. Whereas SJ, especially in the summer with the agricultural shows you could compete affiliated pretty much weekly or fortnightly within a 90 mins journey.

But over the years there has been a huge change with more and more BE venues and less BS and BD, although we were never a BD area. I've just checked the affiliated calendars for our area for the next 2 months, within a rough 2hr drive distance.

BS has four shows within a 2 hr drive(one out of our Area), one an agricultural show, others at a competition venue.
BD has two shows, both at a competition venue.
BE has 9.

So BE, in our area at least, is faring better than the others. Our nearest BS training that I could see is a 3 1/2 hr drive away!

Of the four competition venues I know only one is holding either BS or BD events, two of the others used to hold BS regularly but dropped those a few years ago.

So for people who would like to see unaffiliated competitions disappear where would this leave competitors in our area and where has it gone "wrong" for BS and BD that there is so little available.

An observation from attending and competing affiliated and unaffiliated, mainly showjumping, events. The bad riding, horsemanship and management I've seen at unaffiliated events seems mainly to come from ignorance, and a little bit of entitlement, the equivalent I've seen at affiliated events is mainly deliberate and calculated, sickens me and makes me want to walk away from competition and question the ethics of horse "sports".

 

[RachelFerd]

I have followed this thread from the start and found it fascinating in all it's twists and turns. I come from SJ background, affiliated and unaffiliated, but developed an interest, mainly from the sidelines, in eventing when moving to a very eventing based livery yard in 2000. Growing up BSJA, as it was then, horse classes started with Newcomers and BE at Novice, unaffiliated SJ and Hunter Trials you had two classes, novice approx 2'9" and open 3'3" and upwards. Hunter trials ponies jumped the horse Open class. There has been a huge change in many things in this time but reading this thread makes me wonder how the other disciplines are faring and how they have developed.

The thing that struck me moving to the eventing yard was how little "local" events there were and how far they travelled to event. Probably around 2/3 within an hour in a year the rest would be 2hrs+ travelling. Whereas SJ, especially in the summer with the agricultural shows you could compete affiliated pretty much weekly or fortnightly within a 90 mins journey.

But over the years there has been a huge change with more and more BE venues and less BS and BD, although we were never a BD area. I've just checked the affiliated calendars for our area for the next 2 months, within a rough 2hr drive distance.

BS has four shows within a 2 hr drive(one out of our Area), one an agricultural show, others at a competition venue.
BD has two shows, both at a competition venue.
BE has 9.

So BE, in our area at least, is faring better than the others. Our nearest BS training that I could see is a 3 1/2 hr drive away!

Of the four competition venues I know only one is holding either BS or BD events, two of the others used to hold BS regularly but dropped those a few years ago.

So for people who would like to see unaffiliated competitions disappear where would this leave competitors in our area and where has it gone "wrong" for BS and BD that there is so little available.

An observation from attending and competing affiliated and unaffiliated, mainly showjumping, events. The bad riding, horsemanship and management I've seen at unaffiliated events seems mainly to come from ignorance, and a little bit of entitlement, the equivalent I've seen at affiliated events is mainly deliberate and calculated, sickens me and makes me want to walk away from competition and question the ethics of horse "sports".

Thoughtful post thank you. On the "what would those who want to get rid of unaffiliated do" - my answer is that I'd put them back under an affiliated umbrella somehow. Unregistered stuff in the morning perhaps, but an affiliated afternoon so that people who are jumping 90+ can have the benefits of qualifying for the national series - if they want to. Same for the dressage.

I think if I had any influence on the whole thing and could magically make sweeping changes to the systems, I would want to move to collective regional decision making and membership. So you could pay 1 fee and that would let you event, SJ, dressage, PC, Endurance and RC in your region. With regional champs across all disciplines, scheduled so that you could do all sorts and not have to specialise. And eventing shows could all run SJ and DR alongside *if* that made sense for the region.

If you then wanted to compete beyond the region, in international classes or at national championships, you have to join the specific org for the sport you're specialising in.

Scheduling decisions for national champs and international events would lie with national gov bodies. Regional orgs would then develop coordinated calendars for the region that provides the opps needed in a consistent way through the year - tailored to the region's audience.

So for most people it would be 1 membership, 1 fee, everything affiliated, but with flexibility to run smaller 'unrecorded' classes on the same schedules to meet local demand.

 

[palo1]

Thoughtful post thank you. On the "what would those who want to get rid of unaffiliated do" - my answer is that I'd put them back under an affiliated umbrella somehow. Unregistered stuff in the morning perhaps, but an affiliated afternoon so that people who are jumping 90+ can have the benefits of qualifying for the national series - if they want to. Same for the dressage.

I think if I had any influence on the whole thing and could magically make sweeping changes to the systems, I would want to move to collective regional decision making and membership. So you could pay 1 fee and that would let you event, SJ, dressage, PC, Endurance and RC in your region. With regional champs across all disciplines, scheduled so that you could do all sorts and not have to specialise. And eventing shows could all run SJ and DR alongside *if* that made sense for the region.

If you then wanted to compete beyond the region, in international classes or at national championships, you have to join the specific org for the sport you're specialising in.

Scheduling decisions for national champs and international events would lie with national gov bodies. Regional orgs would then develop coordinated calendars for the region that provides the opps needed in a consistent way through the year - tailored to the region's audience.

So for most people it would be 1 membership, 1 fee, everything affiliated, but with flexibility to run smaller 'unrecorded' classes on the same schedules to meet local demand.

I really like that idea; I think that would make so much of everything more accessible and would enable a pathway for both people who want to develop young horses/novice combinations to move up with the experience of competing as well as allow people who just want a fun day out with their horse to have safe, decent events with facilities and a sense of occasion. Potentially that would also enable organisations and events to consolidate their offer and invest in infrastructure, marketing etc.

 

[Red-1]

Thoughtful post thank you. On the "what would those who want to get rid of unaffiliated do" - my answer is that I'd put them back under an affiliated umbrella somehow. Unregistered stuff in the morning perhaps, but an affiliated afternoon so that people who are jumping 90+ can have the benefits of qualifying for the national series - if they want to. Same for the dressage.

I think if I had any influence on the whole thing and could magically make sweeping changes to the systems, I would want to move to collective regional decision making and membership. So you could pay 1 fee and that would let you event, SJ, dressage, PC, Endurance and RC in your region. With regional champs across all disciplines, scheduled so that you could do all sorts and not have to specialise. And eventing shows could all run SJ and DR alongside *if* that made sense for the region.

If you then wanted to compete beyond the region, in international classes or at national championships, you have to join the specific org for the sport you're specialising in.

Scheduling decisions for national champs and international events would lie with national gov bodies. Regional orgs would then develop coordinated calendars for the region that provides the opps needed in a consistent way through the year - tailored to the region's audience.

So for most people it would be 1 membership, 1 fee, everything affiliated, but with flexibility to run smaller 'unrecorded' classes on the same schedules to meet local demand.

When I started eventing, it was one fee to join the BHS, then you had smaller top up fees for the various disciplines. I have no idea why they changed that.

Nowadays, the BHS seems mainly for trainers. I was a member for exams and trainer insurance but, when I didn't need it for that, I left and did cheaper third party insurance elsewhere. The BHS isn't really (IMO) for a wide range of horse interests/riders/keepers.

Surely I was better to keep one set of admin, one set of records/staff/buildings etc? It was also something that made me more likely to do all 3 of dressage SJ and eventing, as it was only a bit more £ to join one more.

I would prefer that the BHS become more wide-based again. A big shake up. Encompass everyone from riding schools to top eventers. I think it would then also have more political clout.

Sadly, I do think that the BHS lost contact with the 'normal' riders.

I haven't had anything to do with exams recently, the most recently I trained anyone for exams was around 2012, I guess, or even a year or two earlier. I did find, then, that it was all to do with whether you did the front of the rug up first or the belly straps (really?) and less to do with weather you could actually deal with horses in all of their glory. A good, practical person, who I would trust to look after my own animals, would probably have failed, whereas someone who had gone to college and knew the exam answer would likely have passed.

I wonder if they could all come back under one umbrella, BHS, with different disciplines again, if that would help combine people. There could be advantage to attracting unaffiliated shows by a series that was actually accessible to any show centre who wanted to join (as long as they were of a suitable standard, eg collecting ring etc) as opposed to the current affiliated offer who turn down show organisers. My own local centre does BS shows but was persistently turned down to run BD. Of course they run unaffiliated.

 

[GoldenWillow]

Thoughtful post thank you. On the "what would those who want to get rid of unaffiliated do" - my answer is that I'd put them back under an affiliated umbrella somehow. Unregistered stuff in the morning perhaps, but an affiliated afternoon so that people who are jumping 90+ can have the benefits of qualifying for the national series - if they want to. Same for the dressage.

I think if I had any influence on the whole thing and could magically make sweeping changes to the systems, I would want to move to collective regional decision making and membership. So you could pay 1 fee and that would let you event, SJ, dressage, PC, Endurance and RC in your region. With regional champs across all disciplines, scheduled so that you could do all sorts and not have to specialise. And eventing shows could all run SJ and DR alongside *if* that made sense for the region.

If you then wanted to compete beyond the region, in international classes or at national championships, you have to join the specific org for the sport you're specialising in.

Scheduling decisions for national champs and international events would lie with national gov bodies. Regional orgs would then develop coordinated calendars for the region that provides the opps needed in a consistent way through the year - tailored to the region's audience.

So for most people it would be 1 membership, 1 fee, everything affiliated, but with flexibility to run smaller 'unrecorded' classes on the same schedules to meet local demand.

I think one organisation, and importantly one fee, would be a great idea for people who want to compete regularly or semi regularly and with an option of a day ticket for the very occasional competitor. I know I would rather compete BS tracks rather than unaffiliated with their, shall we say idiosyncrasies and variations in quality, and compete under BD list judges. I've not the up to date knowledge to comment on affiliated v. unaffiliated eventing.

I do think the sticking point would be the cost of the one fee, as well as the impossibility of trying to get all organisations together. I do think what my wander around the schedules of all the disciplines this morning shows is that affiliated is not really working for any, or not in our area. We do not even have a BS committee for our area. I know one competition venue and at least one agricultural show stopped running BS due to the costs involved. At lot of our agricultural shows have stopped running BS and noticed although there was some BD scheduled running alongside BE events it was shown as cancelled.

Something else that struck me with my, admittedly very basic searching for events, training etc., was that I found BS and BD websites much easier to navigate than the BE one.

 

[palo1]

I guess too you would have to find a way to bring BRC into it? Riding Club organisation seems good and events and training seem popular too though it's not something I have any experience of! I think it is a different kind of offer with it's own comps/championships etc and as it seems quite successful, may be reluctant to change. I can't imagine Endurance wanting to join in much either tbh but that is quite niche. It would make real sense but would be a tricky job to say the least!!

 

[Rowreach]

I guess too you would have to find a way to bring BRC into it? Riding Club organisation seems good and events and training seem popular too though it's not something I have any experience of! I think it is a different kind of offer with it's own comps/championships etc and as it seems quite successful, may be reluctant to change. I can't imagine Endurance wanting to join in much either tbh but that is quite niche. It would make real sense but would be a tricky job to say the least!!

BRC is a much more successful organisation and format, and at the championship level can be quite serious (although you do still see some questionable riding).

I can't see people agreeing to pay an all in one fee to subsidise other people's fun if they, for example, are only interested in dressage and never want to leave the ground, which is true for many. Or for those of us where opportunities for competition are extremely limited without a 6 hour round commute, every time.

The reality is, if you want to take part in an elitist, expensive sport, you're gonna have to pay for it.

 

[milliepops]

Getting multiple orgs to work together seems fairly impossible. didn't they all have a bust up years back?

I do think it would be beneficial to have everything loosely under one umbrella. I can't imagine it ever happening, but as a thought experiment i like the idea.