So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Bernster]

I’m seeing quite a few fb posts of events not having enough entries. The weather will be one issue, not getting enough practice or being cancelled for weather. There’s also a few big clashes of things on the same weekend. The other big one will be cost of living concerns. Sad times. I really hope these venues can survive!

 

[spacefaer]

The ground is definitely drying up here in Shropshire with no appreciable rain forecast until Monday so I'd expect Llanymynech to run, particularly with only being one day now.

 

[Squeak]

It's been two unbelievable years for weather for eventing, complete opposite extremes at a time when the sport really didn't need it. Hopefully we'll all be back out soon but it's certainly exacerbating the cost issues. It's a lot of money to lose if the event is either cancelled or you decide to not run.

Llany are still sounding positive, they updated saying that as of last night they have still avoided the worst of the rain and their ground is excellent. Incredibly unlucky to be missing out RF - guessing there's no chance of getting a lift or begging/ borrowing a lorry/ bribing mechanics?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Ah, balls, I'd hoped that it was a miscommunication that the Chatsworth 2* classes were also off, but no . Boo. Sorry, ihw.

 

[DressageCob]

I’m seeing quite a few fb posts of events not having enough entries. The weather will be one issue, not getting enough practice or being cancelled for weather. There’s also a few big clashes of things on the same weekend. The other big one will be cost of living concerns. Sad times. I really hope these venues can survive!

I've seen a lot of that too. I think the fact a lot of places aren't giving refunds is a factor too. I know a few people who are waiting for later in the season in the hope that the weather is more reliable so they aren't throwing money away on abandoned events. It's such a shame.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Staffod has done everything possible. Insurance in place. Good track. June, so weather should be fine. Lovely evemt. Well advertised. And it still looks like they might not run.

 

[DressageCob]

Staffod has done everything possible. Insurance in place. Good track. June, so weather should be fine. Lovely evemt. Well advertised. And it still looks like they might not run.

I will be gutted for them if they don't run, given this is their last year. Stafford is such a lovely event too.

 

[ester]

With chatsworth it sounded like issues getting lorries on in the number they need to and the 4* horses are mostly there already.
They were using 2 tractors in tandem to get lorries onto the Windsor parking yesterday.

 

[Mrs Pink]

Quick question, are refunds any different for the International classes at Chatsworth?
This is their refund policy from their schedule on the BE website
A lot more people out of pocket

Abandonment Refund Policy
Stage 1 – Before Closing Date - Full refund of entry fee less £10 administration fee
Stage 2 – Between Closing Date to 14 days prior to the start date of the competition – 50% refund of entry fees
Stage 3 – Between 6 to 13 days prior to the event start date – 30% refund of entry fees
Stage 4 – Between 5 days of the event starting and 17:00 the afternoon before – 15% refund of entry fees
Stage 5 – From 17:00 the afternoon before the event day in question – 0% refund of entry fee
If a Competitor has started their dressage phase, there shall be no refund of the Start Fee, regardless of the time of the abandonment. In all other circumstances the Start Fee, plus VAT where applicable, will be refunded.

 

[Patterdale]

Quick question, are refunds any different for the International classes at Chatsworth?
This is their refund policy from their schedule on the BE website
A lot more people out of pocket

Abandonment Refund Policy
Stage 1 – Before Closing Date - Full refund of entry fee less £10 administration fee
Stage 2 – Between Closing Date to 14 days prior to the start date of the competition – 50% refund of entry fees
Stage 3 – Between 6 to 13 days prior to the event start date – 30% refund of entry fees
Stage 4 – Between 5 days of the event starting and 17:00 the afternoon before – 15% refund of entry fees
Stage 5 – From 17:00 the afternoon before the event day in question – 0% refund of entry fee
If a Competitor has started their dressage phase, there shall be no refund of the Start Fee, regardless of the time of the abandonment. In all other circumstances the Start Fee, plus VAT where applicable, will be refunded.

FEI entries are truly eye watering and would have you questioning your sanity even when you do get to see your horse run.
Getting 15% or nothing back? F……..!

 

[Mrs Pink]

Exactly
I don't normally comment as I've nothing to compete on at the mo, current horse is 27! But at some point in the future, it would be something I would consider, if I got a youngster, but, as it stands at the moment, I just couldn't justify the costs involved.

Bramham only have 17 entries at the moment
Their ballot date is Tuesday and no refund after the ballot date
It would normally be fairly full by now

Maybe there's now a knock on effect with the bigger events too along with the atrocious weather we've had.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Quick question, are refunds any different for the International classes at Chatsworth?
This is their refund policy from their schedule on the BE website
A lot more people out of pocket

Abandonment Refund Policy
Stage 1 – Before Closing Date - Full refund of entry fee less £10 administration fee
Stage 2 – Between Closing Date to 14 days prior to the start date of the competition – 50% refund of entry fees
Stage 3 – Between 6 to 13 days prior to the event start date – 30% refund of entry fees
Stage 4 – Between 5 days of the event starting and 17:00 the afternoon before – 15% refund of entry fees
Stage 5 – From 17:00 the afternoon before the event day in question – 0% refund of entry fee
If a Competitor has started their dressage phase, there shall be no refund of the Start Fee, regardless of the time of the abandonment. In all other circumstances the Start Fee, plus VAT where applicable, will be refunded.

Hang on - if THEY abandon and cancel the event YOU lose some or all of your money!?!? In what world is that ever sane or fair!?

If you pull out then fine and fair does but if THEY pull out? It should be 100% refund or at least 95% refund with 5% to cover admin costs.

Utterly insane. No wonder people don't want to affiliate!

 

[Red-1]

Hang on - if THEY abandon and cancel the event YOU lose some or all of your money!?!? In what world is that ever sane or fair!?

If you pull out then fine and fair does but if THEY pull out? It should be 100% refund or at least 95% refund with 5% to cover admin costs.

Utterly insane. No wonder people don't want to affiliate!

It is harsh, and also leads them to want to leave it as late as possible to abandon!

 

[ester]

Members wanted lower entry fees without the abandonment insurance but the current set up definitely seems to encourage late cancellation although it’s trying to be representative of the proportion of costs already paid by the organiser

 

[LEC]

I was having this discussion the other day. There NEEDS to be greater flex in entries charged. Up to a point there is already flex as lower or higher prize money has an impact. The stupid start fee needs to go back to its original purpose of adding flex for exceptional reasons. It would get a lot of organisers out of a hole for greenfield and early season events as could openly communicate why their start fee was £20 and not £10 vs the event down the road.

 

[teapot]

Does anyone know what's causing/caused the 14 eliminations in the sj at Chatsworth 4* section G?

ETS it's 16 now...

 

[TheMule]

Does anyone know what's causing/caused the 14 eliminations in the sj at Chatsworth 4* section G?

ETS it's 16 now...

Lucinda Green said on commentary tacky ground meaning they're jumping fine but not getting the height so having too many poles to continue

 

[teapot]

Lucinda Green said on commentary tacky ground meaning they're jumping fine but not getting the height so having too many poles to continue

Oh wow, what's limit, 20?

 

[ihatework]

Lots of poles were coming down in SJ - compulsory retirement.
Visually the ground looks great. But it’s that soft tacky holding texture that they aren’t jumping out of

Gutted my boy isn’t running but making the most of it. Lovely B&B in walking distance. Sun is shining. Lovely food and plenty of drink!

 

[Squeak]

Just got back from Llany and the ground was absolutely amazing and I thought it was nice to see a longer course that had some flowing fences to allow/ encourage riders to get into a rhythm and jump out their stride, unlike a lot of others that I've jumped recently that are much shorter and so end up being just combination after combination.

Real shame that events like this are struggling with entries and weren’t able to run two days.

 

[RachelFerd]

Just got back from Llany and the ground was absolutely amazing and I thought it was nice to see a longer course that had some flowing fences to allow/ encourage riders to get into a rhythm and jump out their stride, unlike a lot of others that I've jumped recently that are much shorter and so end up being just combination after combination.

Real shame that events like this are struggling with entries and weren’t able to run two days.

It really worries me that these events are struggling - Stafford is another with a longer track (and in its final year because of HS2) where the entries have been very slow to come in. Bradwall wasn't overwhelmed with entries either, and it is a genuinely lovely event with beautiful tracks at all levels, which has never skimped on its ground prep.

I feel like there's now just a mainstream group of events which all of the pros are at, usually running all the way up to Int+, and then the bulk of grassroots events are struggling, bar the ones which happen to fit in the timetable for the pros. So Llany would always struggle, because all of the pros would be at Chatsworth or Floors that weekend (or would have run their horses en masse at Aston). When I'm entering events now I'm seeing the bulk of entries being for novice and intermediate most of the time, rather than for the grassroots classes. Given that the stats are that 71% of riders don't compete above BE100, that's worrying.

Mind you, I've also seen it kicking off that Chatsworth didn't have abandonment insurance and so isn't refunding the nov/2*... (!!!Edit: the rumours are wrong - they are refunding and had insured!!!) it's what people agreed to, but it still feels pretty criminal. I was a loud advocate for keeping abandonment insurance - it was fairly obvious to me that people would kick off very loudly if they didn't get a refund - and it's hugely off-putting to anyone thinking about starting BE eventing if that's what they keep reading about.

We definitely need better contingency plans for creating runs on suitable ground when the weather is this tragic. Because I don't think this year is going to be a one-off. For example, being able to add quick pop-up events at places where the ground is well draining (eg. Poplar in the east, or Larkhill/Tweseldown in the South, Kelsall in the north) and for entries to be transferred between spaces in events, rather than very slowly waiting on refunds. Or letting events reschedule onto the next weekend and giving people option of carrying entries over. No idea how that would work on a technical level mind!

 

[Roxylola]

Eland emailed to say they don't want people waiting on underwriters any longer, have borrowed to allow them to pay out refunds.
Regarding ground etc, feels a bit ridiculous that in the North West I had events to choose from in April, and June July and August are sparse. We're not exactly known for dry weather up here

 

[RachelFerd]

Eland emailed to say they don't want people waiting on underwriters any longer, have borrowed to allow them to pay out refunds.
Regarding ground etc, feels a bit ridiculous that in the North West I had events to choose from in April, and June July and August are sparse. We're not exactly known for dry weather up here

That's good of eland - just saw it my emails. Sensible timing given their entries are open to the next...

 

[Roxylola]

Did cross my mind @RachelFerd the good will will help I think for sure

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I’m so glad Stafford is running. I entered last year too. It’s a fab event

 

[teapot]

Does abandonment insurance just cover the cost of refunding entries, or do events take it out to cover all their costs? If it's the latter, I'm surprised an event of Chatsworth would even consider running without it

 

[LEC]

@RachelFerd you make a very good point. We see exactly the same in the SW…. If the pros don’t go the event barely stacks up. It has to have at least a novice as well. Anything without a novice is doomed for entries and struggles. Little Gatcombe clashes with Nunney so will be interesting to see how it does with entries.

 

[Squeak]

I realised that Llany had a clash with Solihull UA as well as Aston so possibly very much not helped by scheduling?

It was interesting to look at the eventing scores analysis of Llany compared to Aston. Llany had ~ 70% clear xc, Aston had ~ 90%. So is it also another where softer tracks are being favoured? Maybe exacerbated by the cancellation of events and interruption of preparation?

Is it even right that events are getting 90% clear xc? Does it mean that the courses are too soft?

 

[ester]

Does abandonment insurance just cover the cost of refunding entries, or do events take it out to cover all their costs? If it's the latter, I'm surprised an event of Chatsworth would even consider running without it

I thought it had been confirmed they did have it on the threads re. them cancelling and have seen it suggested that the start fee has been refunded but the rest has to wait for the insurance to pay out?

 

[ester]