So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Michen]

@Michen it's nearer £200 than £100 to gamble if you're payg.
Prices have gone up considerably, getting cheaper the more you do is only useful if you want to run more. I've just been put off entirely by the cost, I only would have run a couple of times anyway.
Also, it's one thing to compete on firm going, that's a one off for one day and in my experience the courses are often managed to offset that. However, to compete you have to train and do fitness work which for me is a much bigger concern than competing on current ground

Nearer £200 for the first run with PAYG yes but not after that. As for fitness as long as your horse is already fit which most would be by now you don’t really need to be doing specific canter work for 80/90 even 100 level. Most would be fit enough just from the school work and hacking even at walk to maintain it.

That said I’m using gallops but only to keep Bog sane not because he needs it fitness wise snd also our school is riding deep with the lack of rain so I’m boxing out for arenas too.

I am opposite to you in that the maintenance doesn’t worry me as there’s ways around it to keep horses fit enough but I won’t run on hard ground full stop.

My gamble that it’ll have rained by 22nd May isn’t looking great on the long range forecast though ?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Agree re XC schooling at Somerford. Assuming a camp will adjust the lesson plan for one rider as most people will want to jump. But a good instructor should be able to facilitate that. We run non jumping sessions on the 80 acres for all our camps which are popular - for confidence building in riding in open spaces and to gain experience on steps, slopes, ditches, water etc for young/green horses. We have loads to do and don’t run out of ideas.

 

[Michen]

The ground thing is interesting, 15 years ago when I was doing most of my eventing we ran on any ground. Doing aeration and watering wasn't a thing. My horses stayed sound well into their 20s and yet ones now seem to barely make it to 10.

I did all my fast work out hacking on the same ground, maybe that conditioned them.

Personal choice I guess. I have an arthritic horse who had hoof issues as a youngster. I simply have no interest in risking him unnecessarily, I also don’t believe in the conditioning as such, to me consistent fast work on hard ground just increases wear and tear on joints especially if they are already compromised.

 

[Orangehorse]

I do feel that the changing population of non pro riders is also part of this. There is an ageing population of people that rode competively have always done so alongside work.

it is much harder now post 21 to do this and save for house etc etc and all the other pressures. I really feel that this is what is affecting all the sports not just eventing.

I think you are right.

 

[ycbm]

We've missed so much competition due to covid and daughters illness thst I am determined to run on the hard ground - we train on it anyway - I won't put studs in though

That's the time I most wanted studs to stop the slipping. I used long thin and very pointed ones to punch a hole in the baked earth.
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[Michen]

That's the time I most wanted studs to stop the slipping. I used long thin and very pointed ones to punch a hole in the baked earth.
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Yep same.

 

[ycbm]

I do feel that the changing population of non pro riders is also part of this. There is an ageing population of people that rode competively have always done so alongside work.

it is much harder now post 21 to do this and save for house etc etc and all the other pressures. I really feel that this is what is affecting all the sports not just eventing.

Affiliated competition is a lot more expensive than it used to be and so is the deposit on a house. But I didn't own a horse until after we bought a house, I wouldn't have prioritised horse owning, never mind competing, over home owning. Also it's far more accepted to stay living at home with your parents in adulthood at low/no rent these days. I think this is a question of priorities, not simply of finances.
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[ester]

I don't understand why venues running BE are running unaff a week later then moaning about lack of entries for the BE.

I sell a product - if I said it cost 110, but next week it will be 75 then if course it will impact sales!

I’m not sure they are moaning? Ive seen announcements but no moaning.

 

[ycbm]

I’m not sure they are moaning? Ive seen announcements but no moaning.

This. And Somerford does not run unaffiliated, the only way to get on that course is to do affiliated or Pony Club. I livery there now and I can't jump those fences. To have Somerford cancelled for lack of entries is absolutely shocking.
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[Bernster]

Urgh, as for hard ground, I did munstead the other week. It didn’t seem overly hard, and there was loose sand on top with give in it. But finn had me worried as he did get a puffy leg (one worse than the other) which we’ve been treating all week but finally back to normal today. So I’ll be more wary next time in the prep and running him on harder going. Horrible way to learn a lesson but learned all the same.

Def tricky though, as the times when it’s perfect/good going are so rare in the uk!!

I was surprised they didn’t get enough entries to run it over 2 days, but there were tons of events that weekend in the same area.

 

[billylula]

I’m not sure they are moaning? Ive seen announcements but no moaning.

I'm not going to name the actual venue - but saying they are very disappointed etc and having to cancel events or drop to one day - then having an Unaffiliated the following weekend. I mean, its not rocket science! Also makes me feel fed up as a BE member as I feel as though I am subsidising the unaffiliated!

 

[ester]

I’m sure they are disappointed, they’d like to have enough numbers for both.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Yes a lot of venues run unaffiliated the weekend after their BE. Logistically that makes sense but from a customer perception POV it's not great. It is literally the SAME event, 7 days later, at half the price and with better prizes!

 

[billylula]

This. And Somerford does not run unaffiliated, the only way to get on that course is to do affiliated or Pony Club. I livery there now and I can't jump those fences. To have Somerford cancelled for lack of entries is absolutely shocking.
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I don't know this venue - but agree it is a real shame that it has been cancelled. The grassroots is really dropping off a cliff, I presume due to cheaper unaffiliated. Eventing Scores/ponycluberesults gives a pretty permanent record the way BE website does, so you can use results on there when selling a horse which doesn't help BE either.

 

[billylula]

Yes a lot of venues run unaffiliated the weekend after their BE. Logistically that makes sense but from a customer perception POV it's not great. It is literally the SAME event, 7 days later, at half the price and with better prizes!

Exactly! And with no balloting so if you get your entry in time there's no question that you'll have a run if the event goes ahead.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Which is why I have not rejoined BE but intend to stay unaff this season! I believe BE are aware of all the issues with unaff and have a plan. I sincerely hope so. Because you're right. BE is subsidising unaff at the moment and that isn't fair or sustainable.

 

[billylula]

the u18 BE is good (because of the training) if again expensive although I wish the u18 sections weren't always Open sections as the placings often go to kids on ex 3 and 4* horses

 

[YorkshireLady]

Affiliated competition is a lot more expensive than it used to be and so is the deposit on a house. But I didn't own a horse until after we bought a house, I wouldn't have prioritised horse owning, never mind competing, over home owning. Also it's far more accepted to stay living at home with your parents in adulthood at low/no rent these days. I think this is a question of priorities, not simply of finances.
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I also owned a house before a horse...though had had horses prior and never stopped riding. However I think chances of buying as i did at 22 in the SE ( and indeed elsewhere) are slim and I wasnt helped by parents buying etc. So I see a gap the over 40s group is dwindling and potentially affected by finances. or some are just becoming horse owners..then you have the under 21s and then not as many in the middle from mid 20s to 40- for whatever reason , and I think going back this is where lots of the non pro riders were.

I also think that eventing once you take a break from it...is harder to get back into and we may well have lost some during covid etc. I mean from the sheer effort of the 12 hour day and physical work that goes into it never mind cost.....

 

[ycbm]

I also think that eventing once you take a break from it...is harder to get back into and we may well have lost some during covid etc. I mean from the sheer effort of the 12 hour day and physical work that goes into it never mind cost.....

Definitely, and if the break also coincides with getting older and/or changing horses then it can feel mentally too daunting to start over again jumping fixed timber at speed. Speaking from experience here.
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[ycbm]

BE is subsidising unaff at the moment and that isn't fair or sustainable.

I've seen this said quite a bit and I don't understand it. Do BE pay for the course to be built? It looks to me as if BE is simply being outmarketed/beaten by a cheaper brand.
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[Squeak]

Which is why I have not rejoined BE but intend to stay unaff this season! I believe BE are aware of all the issues with unaff and have a plan. I sincerely hope so. Because you're right. BE is subsidising unaff at the moment and that isn't fair or sustainable.

I also keep hearing it and I'm not sure it's possibly the other way round where if the BE courses weren't able to run an unaffiliated the next week it wouldn't be viable for them to hold the BE's.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

As I understand it, BE pay for a lot of the hidden costs that go into making courses well built and safe. And unaff have the benefit of that investment if they run over those courses. Happy to be corrected though x

 

[Squeak]

As I understand it, BE pay for a lot of the hidden costs that go into making courses well built and safe. And unaff have the benefit of that investment if they run over those courses. Happy to be corrected though x

No, you are correct but I was meaning that if you took away the unaffiliated for those venues then the BE's wouldn't be viable for them because they wouldn't make enough out of the one event so the unaff and the aff are propping each other up.

 

[VRIN]

Mark Phillips makes comment about this topic in this weeks H&H... "I worry about the future of British Eventing' ... and sums up by saying the BE business model needs to change.

 

[RachelFerd]

BE have just published this - https://news.britisheventing.com/br...ing-costs-making-flexibility-more-affordable/

Big cost reduction for PAYG - vouchers to those who already have PAYG membership.

 

[Squeak]

BE have just published this - https://news.britisheventing.com/br...ing-costs-making-flexibility-more-affordable/

Big cost reduction for PAYG - vouchers to those who already have PAYG membership.

Wow really interesting. Will be interesting to see if it entices riders back to BE or if as surmised earlier that it's actually all disciplines feeling the pinch and there just aren't the competitors to be enticed back.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Well that does make a difference. That’s far more than a token gesture.

 

[ycbm]

As I understand it, BE pay for a lot of the hidden costs that go into making courses well built and safe. And unaff have the benefit of that investment if they run over those courses. Happy to be corrected though x

I have looked through the 2020 accounts line by line and I can't find anything that suggests that BE make any sizeable contribution to the building or maintenance of the courses.

I think unaffiliated entries and, even more so, fees paid for training over courses are subsidising BE, not the other way round.
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[ycbm]

BE have just published this - https://news.britisheventing.com/br...ing-costs-making-flexibility-more-affordable/

Big cost reduction for PAYG - vouchers to those who already have PAYG membership.

They are listening and that's very quick work. We'll done BE.
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[Squeak]

Well that does make a difference. That’s far more than a token gesture.

It really does! I hadn't been planning on BEing this year and was just going to stick to UA but suddenly I'm starting to get excited that I could actually get back to BE!