So what has British Eventing done wrong?

[Michen]

Interesting. Just received this.

 

[RachelFerd]

I have looked through the 2020 accounts line by line and I can't find anything that suggests that BE make any sizeable contribution to the building or maintenance of the courses.

I think unaffiliated entries and, even more so, fees paid for training over courses are subsidising BE, not the other way round.
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The costs are more in the overarching sport development space - so the cost of research into course design and safety, frangible tech, training and accreditation of officials including course designers and builders (yes, that's not entirely BE funded - but the availability of that accreditation and the development of it is) - the higher levels of the sport have driven that research and education which then filters down to providing great courses by brilliant builders and designers at the lower levels. Plus most of the groundcare machinery is owned by BE and made available to events to use - useful for the places that run as one-offs.

When it works there should be a symbiotic relationship between the upper and lower levels, with a pathway from the bottom to the top. The higher levels create the knowledge and skill which filters down, and the lower levels provide the baseline of participation that supports the upper levels.

 

[ycbm]

Designing and building a BE 80/90 isn't rocket science that requires a big eventing name and safety at BE80/90 isn't the same ask as at Advanced. I think the benefits to unaffiliated 80/90 from being a BE course are being over stated.

It still looks to me as if it's unaffiliated competitions and particularly day to day training fees that are subsidising the availability of these 80/90 courses to run BE.
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[RachelFerd]

Designing and building a BE 80/90 isn't rocket science that requires a big eventing name and safety at BE80/90 isn't the same ask as at Advanced. I think the benefits to unaffiliated 80/90 from being a BE course are being over stated.

It still looks to me as if it's unaffiliated competitions and particularly day to day training fees that are subsidising the availability of these 80/90 courses to run BE.
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Given some of the absolute lethal cr*p you used to see set out to jump at hunter trials and unaff events, I have to disagree!

 

[Michen]

Just checked.

So they've halved the membership from 30 quid for a horse and 30 quid for a rider to 15. And £10 rather than £15 for the day ticket.

 

[ycbm]

Given some of the absolute lethal cr*p you used to see set out to jump at hunter trials and unaff events, I have to disagree!

Why do you make the assumption that safety standards would not have improved without BE? There have been safety improvements everywhere in life driven by a more litigious culture and the requirements of insurers. It would have been the same for unaffiliated eventing. And they weren't all crap, I've shown this picture before in this continuing discussion, it's unaffiliated from 1992/3 when BE started at BE Novice.

 

[jules9203]

So I am one of the grassroots members that started at BE80 and moved up. I did so because I am very capable but have no nerve at all (for various reasons). At the time there were not the good unaffiliated competitions there are now. I have stayed a member of BE recently despite not having anything to compete recently. However I'm going to be cancelling my membership as BE have been quite happy to take my money but haven't informed me of the price changes that have happened this yr. They just relied on my direct debit being paid. Fingers crossed next year I will be out eventing again but it will be UA.

 

[RachelFerd]

Whereas I remember a bunch of half poles of wood tied together with baking twine!

 

[ester]

A few complaining they wouldn't have done full membership if they'd know but I'm impressed by BE's action speed on the situation.

 

[Squeak]

A few complaining they wouldn't have done full membership if they'd know but I'm impressed by BE's action speed on the situation.

Yes, I’ve seen quite a few complaining and feel sorry for BE. Can’t do right for doing wrong.

 

[billylula]

I have looked through the 2020 accounts line by line and I can't find anything that suggests that BE make any sizeable contribution to the building or maintenance of the courses.

I think unaffiliated entries and, even more so, fees paid for training over courses are subsidising BE, not the other way round.
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"Loans may be made at favourable terms in order to help you pay for the building of the cross country course. The sums available will not cover the whole cost of the course but they assist and are usually repayable over the three years. British Eventing also has a Development Fund which events can apply to for funding with specific projects such as developing a cross country course."

 

[billylula]

I think what BE have done re PAYG is great - I wouldn't have bought a full horse season ticket for one of mine had I known! but never mind. Hopefully it will encourage more back to BE.

 

[YorkshireLady]

Its a good move - they had to presume those paying full membership will run....but that the PAYG more likely not to do so on cost....

 

[ycbm]

"Loans may be made at favourable terms in order to help you pay for the building of the cross country course. The sums available will not cover the whole cost of the course but they assist and are usually repayable over the three years. British Eventing also has a Development Fund which events can apply to for funding with specific projects such as developing a cross country course."

If BE is issuing loans or grants to build a XC course then they can stipulate what is done with the XC course. This point came up in a discussion about whether affiliated subsidises unaffiliated. Presumably, if BE give a loan or a grant and then allow the course to be used for training and unaffiliated competition, that would be because they realise that the venue needs those revenues to maintain the asset. So once again, that would actually mean that it is unaffiliated activities which are supporting BE, not the other way around.

At best, it's a mutually beneficial relationship.
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[billylula]

Unaffiliated has absolutely no benefit to me as a BE member.

 

[ycbm]

Unaffiliated has absolutely no benefit to me as a BE member.

Unless you never compete at a venue which is only financially viable with unaffiliated use, which is a lot of courses these days, it does.
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[Cragrat]

Unaffiliated has absolutely no benefit to me as a BE member.

My nearest affliiated courses are 1 hr 15, 1 hr 30 and 1 hr 40 away. Beyond that it's more than 2 hrs. They each run 1 BE per year. If it weren't for unaffiliated being run at these venues I wouldn't have many options.

 

[TPO]

Warwick Hall reduced to one day and eventer Derby instead of two days of BE. Not sure if it was mentioned above with the others

 

[Nicnac]

I have found the answer to this thread. Perusing the BE website this evening and found this:

MESSAGE FROM HELEN WEST, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF BRITISH EVENTING, REGARDING THE MEMBERSHIP RESTRUCTURE

• Member Updates
• Posted: November 29, 2021

Curabitur blandit tempus ardua ridiculus sed magna. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus. Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? Nihilne te nocturnum praesidium Palati, nihil urbis vigiliae.
Morbi odio eros, volutpat ut pharetra vitae, lobortis sed nibh. Mercedem aut nummos unde unde extricat, amaras. Praeterea iter est quasdam res quas ex communi. Quisque ut dolor gravida, placerat libero vel, euismod. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient. Tityre, tu patulae recubans sub tegmine fagi dolor.
Ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequat. Quae vero auctorem tractata ab fiducia dicuntur. Quisque placerat facilisis egestas cillum dolore.
Unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam. Quid securi etiam tamquam eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Contra legem facit qui id facit quod lex prohibet. Tu quoque, Brute, fili mi, nihil timor populi, nihil! Non equidem invideo, miror magis posuere velit aliquet. Curabitur est gravida et libero vitae dictum.
Fictum, deserunt mollit anim laborum astutumque! Idque Caesaris facere voluntate liceret: sese habere. Morbi fringilla convallis sapien, id pulvinar odio volutpat. At nos hinc posthac, sitientis piros Afros.

 

[shortstuff99]

Have I now summoned Imhotep reading that aloud?

 

[MagicMelon]

So... can anyone confirm the actual cost now to compete on a ticket? Is is the entry fee and then £40 extra (£15 for horse, £15 for rider. £10 day ticket)? How is that cheaper than originally? Im still confused...

 

[Michen]

So... can anyone confirm the actual cost now to compete on a ticket? Is is the entry fee and then £40 extra (£15 for horse, £15 for rider. £10 day ticket)? How is that cheaper than originally? Im still confused...

Because you only pay the 15 for rider and 15 for horse once. Then 10 day ticket thereafter.

 

[MagicMelon]

Because you only pay the 15 for rider and 15 for horse once. Then 10 day ticket thereafter.

Oh right, so its a one off £30 fee, then just need to add £10 onto each entry fee after that?

 

[Michen]

Oh right, so its a one off £30 fee, then just need to add £10 onto each entry fee after that?

Yes

 

[Tiddlypom]

Berriewood BE (Shropshire) is also cutting down to one day instead of two.

*News flash*

We will only be running our British Eventing Horse Trials on Saturday 11th June NOT Sunday 12th June 2022. Like many other events this year, we are experiencing lower than usual entries and therefore have decided to run on Saturday only. It has been a tough decision to make but ultimately it would not be viable to run over 2 days.

On Saturday 11th June we will run BE80, BE90 and BE100.

If you have already entered for Sunday then you should have received an email from BE explaining your options. We are very sorry for the inconvenience this change may have caused for you.

 

[RachelFerd]

Berriewood BE (Shropshire) is also cutting down to one day instead of two.

*News flash*

We will only be running our British Eventing Horse Trials on Saturday 11th June NOT Sunday 12th June 2022. Like many other events this year, we are experiencing lower than usual entries and therefore have decided to run on Saturday only. It has been a tough decision to make but ultimately it would not be viable to run over 2 days.

On Saturday 11th June we will run BE80, BE90 and BE100.

If you have already entered for Sunday then you should have received an email from BE explaining your options. We are very sorry for the inconvenience this change may have caused for you.

Speetley is also on that weekend and looks like it will cut to 1 day.

In a fabulous act of cut-throat planning, this is the same weekend as the Brigante Cup qualifier at Eland Lodge (handily placed exactly inbetween the two BE events geographically) siphoning away the entries.

 

[Ambers Echo]

FB post from Speetley below. It clearly expresses the reasons for the increased costs associated with BE and the risks UA eventing present to BE.

I can’t help wondering whether BE is TOO prescriptive about how things Must Be Done? Are all those health and safety executives, regulators and ground jury people etc etc really necessary? Or do BE need to streamline/become more efficient.

I generally agree with Speetlwy’s position but reading that list of the army of extra people who get involved when it’s a BE not an UA event just made me wonder.


“British Eventing ODE’s
V’s
Unaffiliated ODE’s

10 years ago when we founded Speetley we ran Unaff ODE’s.
They were average and reasonably successful.
After a few years and being the progressive Centre you all know us for, we took the bold decision to host BE!
The commitment, preparation and cost compared to our own was immense.
However, months and months before our event date their team of experts came in and took over.
Ground jury, qualified and experienced
X/C designer and fence builder, SJ designer, secretary, the regulatory medical and veterinary personnel, control, starters, PA and commentators , health and safety executives all experts in their particular fields and all managed by our Personal Development Officer, Chief Steward and Technical Advisor.
How could Speetley employ all this for our own ODE’s? I made the decision not to run unaffiliated again.
At this point I must add that I am in no way judging others who run unaffiliated events. I am speaking candidly and personally about Speetley.
We provide the venue, the facilities and finance and BE the knowledge, experience and perpetual training in safety and sport.
A good union I think !
For the sake of keeping all this flourishing and for our brave, challenging and skilful sport I appeal to all those wanting to take part - please support this unique and caring union
Thank you for reading,
Lisa Renshaw
Speetley E C Ltd”

 

[ycbm]

I just think most people at 80/90 only want "average" and a nice day out at reasonable cost. I know that's what I want, maybe I'm just biased?

How difficult is it to build a safe 80? Does a centre really need technical advice for that?
.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I just think most people at 80/90 only want "average" and a nice day out at reasonable cost. I know that's what I want, maybe I'm just biased?

How difficult is it to build a safe 80? Does a centre really need technical advice for that?
.

That’s kind of what I feel too ycbm. Overkill for grassroots??

 

[ester]

I just think most people at 80/90 only want "average" and a nice day out at reasonable cost. I know that's what I want, maybe I'm just biased?

How difficult is it to build a safe 80? Does a centre really need technical advice for that?
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Especially if there are minimal changes year on year? It would make sense for the first BE at a site perhaps but after that?