Sorry for this...but if racing is cruel than what is this...

[Tia]

Ironically, I am not pro-foxhunting and yet I am one of the few who saw no cruelty in this video.

I wonder what everyone who has claimed how disgusting this video was, would have said about it had the accident not been featured? I am just trying to get a grasp of what exactly people think is so cruel.

So far the only reason has been that it is cruel to place horses in a distressing situation - no more distressing from Dobbin wandering down the road with a 10 tonnes lorry up his ass surely? Or being forced to walk over a bridge or past a wheelie bin or have metal shoes hammered onto his feet or even being backed?

Please enlighten me as I am definitely confused.

 

[hayliana]

because horses arent pests like foxes are?? as for the 'horses can get harmed everyday' argument, yes they can, thats why people do anything they can to stop accidents happening, whereas this video seems to purposefully put the horses in danger.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

I will point out then that i was crying before i saw the accident happen. it wasnt actually the accident i found distressing because that IS just an accident, it was the idea behind this 'entertainment'

 

[sugarnspice]

That is sick, how can people find that entertaining?

 

[Tia]

Oh, do you usually cry when you see a horse rear or kick a person?

 

[Hanz]

that is sick, i dont know how poeple can be proud of doing that, and just when i was thinking all of that natural horse training was coming in...they want to ban foxhunting and then they allow this...????

han x

 

[hayliana]

training a horse to walk calmly past a 'wheelie bin' has positive benefits for both horse and rider. it eliminates fear, without the use of cruelty, and will hopefully reduce the likelihood of a wheelie bin related incident. is that what the men on that video were doing?!
people arent putting shoes on their horses feet for entertainment, and i would certainly hope that most people would have their horses backed in a way which avoids large amounts of distress or pain etc.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

No i don't cry when a horse rears or kicks for no reason no
However i do whenever i see a horse rear or kick out because it is being beaten or hurt or intimidated by humans who claim to be horse people and clearly are NOT!

 

[Fairynuff]

Why are foxes PESTS, what have they ever done to you personally? Why is one okay as it hides under the name of sport AND vermin control and the other isnt okay as it doesnt involve a PEST but is a sport in which the animal isnt deliberately wounded or killed? I think youre being a bit hypocritical. Mairi.

 

[Tia]

Gosh I must have lived in a very cruel area of Hampshire then as the horses I saw who wouldn't walk past wheelie bins, were whipped until they did.

The other examples I gave may or may not be taught nicely or nastily depending on the trainer..........this in no way changes the fact that the horse is still distressed.

Pain? How many people use a crop? How many people were shown to be hitting any horse in this video?

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Apart from the fact foxes kill poultry and small animals to the extent where it can put a farmers living at stake??And also the fact i will point out of the badger (ok straying a bit from foxes here...) entered a house through a cat flap and actually went upstairs and mauled a young girl in her bed, that was in the news a few months ago. hmm. BUT hunting debates should remain in the hunting forum and i have many views on it but wish not to express them as its straying from the topic

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Also true and i ALSO disagree with horses being whipped when they spook or are scared i dont even carry a whip with Rocky. Seriously though answer this in particular...how is wrestling a horse to the ground not cruel????how is that any better than hitting them or beating them????

 

[Fairynuff]

Tia, there is a certain amount of "Cruelty" in every animal based sport. This is the usual OTT reaction that was expected by those who put these videos together(deliberately).PETA? Bunch of out and out loonies.I wouldve thought people wouldve ben more outraged by the FAACES website-blood sports-now that is sick. I havent managed to see the video so cant comment on it.Accidents happen every day. mairi.

 

[Tia]

I was watching my young geldings this morning, as I do every morning, and they were playing as per usual. Their best trick is biting one horse's front leg, hanging onto it and pulling their opponent to the ground. Should I keep them in paddocks on their own because they are being cruel to one another? Pulling a horse to the ground is just that, it does not imply cruelty.

 

[hayliana]

call it hypocrisy, but to me these things arent black and white. i agree with hunting because i believe it is effective vermin control, the sporting side of it for me, is irrelevent. i saw this video however as a twisted form of entertainment with no real purpose and as unneccesary. i have not been affected 'personally' by a fox, however this does not mean i am uninformed of their effects. i live in a rural community with plenty of farmers that know first hand what foxes can do

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

That is horses playing together they are happy. Just like me playing with my brother or best mate when we were younger, id be tackled to the ground. Howver if some stranger did that as i was walking in a strange area i wouldnt be so happy...

 

[Tia]

No it is no different - it is horses being pulled to the ground period. Makes no difference whether they enjoy it or not. My horses are just as likely to be injured as the horses shown on the video and from exactly the same thing....being pulled to the ground.

I very much doubt if these men were strangers to these horses - certainly "man" wasn't.

 

[hayliana]

just to agree with k_and_r, i personally wouldnt whip a horse that was frightened of a wheelie bin, please dont taint us with the experiences you have of others. may i ask tia, is roping, head locking etc how you bring on your own horses?

 

[Tia]

Yes I think you are getting confused.

Foxes are animals (not pests or vermin but animals) who are killed in their "sport"; the aim of the sport is to kill an animal.

These horses are animals who are not being killed. They are being caught, ridden and then turned out to pasture - no death involved whatsoever.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

I think you may have missed my point
im not talking from the injury accident point of view, accidents happen injuries happen wherever and whenever etc etc and cannot be helped
im just saying id be a lot more distressed being tackled to the floor in an unknown environment with strange unknown people strange smells strange noises than i would be my a mate at home somewhere i konw. very different.
plus im sure your horses play together they give, and they get given back what they give. the horses in this vid are released into a strange smelling and sounding arena which they dont know and are suddenly grabbed and pulled to the ground by people they have never seen or smelt before for no reason what so ever. id say thats fairly different.

 

[hayliana]

except all the deaths dorey's mum listed earlier you mean?! im not confused, im perfectly clear on my opinion on the matter. and shall i just emphasise again that im merely expressing my opinion. and in the case of foxes, which we neednt have strayed into anyway, i did say that my views on hunting are irrelevant of how sporting it is, the animal/pest is killed for reasons which have helped the rural communities for many years.

 

[Tia]

So you don't whip your horse to get it past a wheelie bin - what difference does that make? As I keep saying but some don't appear to grasp it - the horse is still distressed!! Whipping it or not is totally irrelevant, except to use it as an example for the previous poster who suggested pain was being caused to these horses in the video.

I have no feral horses living on my farm therefore headlocking and roping is not necessary - however if I had a 6,000 acre ranch with 300 head of feral horses to deal with, then yes of course I would rope them. How would you deal with them?

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

When my horse spooks at wheelies hes not distressed tia. He's just never seen one before. Hes an odd one though because then i let him sniff it and hes just interested to see what it is, not scared just unsure of what it is. defiantely not distresesd.

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

and also thats true when you have however many feral horses, can be said to be impossible to avoid, but in an arena full of people as entertainment?

 

[Tia]

Oops we are going around in circles here I fear. The horses who died in the list accidentally died - they were not purposely killed.

I really don't know why you are talking about farmer's livelihoods

?

 

[hayliana]

sorry tia but you started saying how people do whip their horses in that situation and i wanted to point out that im not them thats all! and i also gave a good difference as to how in the 'wheelie bin' situation alot can be done to de-stress the horse, quite the opposite of whats happening in the video. would you take your theory of 'everything distresses horses' far enough to say that we shouldnt be able to keep them then?! as for my ways of keeping 300 horses - i would never put myself in that situation as i think it takes a very special and gifted horseperson to manage that!

 

[kayleigh_and_rocky]

Hayliana your speaking my thoughts exactly.

 

[hayliana]

the farmers came in coz someone bought up foxes and hunting! as i said, off the subject! lol

 

[Tia]

LOL!! Yes as I said previously, backing and riding horses distresses them so perhaps some people are of the view that horses shouldn't be ridden.

The sorts of people who have 300 feral horses are the sorts of people you saw in the video and I agree with you, they are special horsepeople.

 

[S_N]

OMG - I can't believe I've jsut seen that!!! I've been to quite a few rodeo's in Ohio, Kentucky, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee and Indiana and I can honestly say I never saw ANYTHING like this!!! Most rodeo competitions are run by national federations and there are vets and all kinds of safety measures for animal and human. This is disgraceful - gives a bad - often undeserved - name to cowboys!!! I'd take a true blue cowboy over most farmers anyday!!!