Stallion Showcase GB

[Stuart harvey]

I think the comments about Peppermill are fair based on what was seen. He showed a development of the sternomandibular muscle? which would indicate he has a tendancy to go with a high head carriage. This could be interpreted as a horse who is not the easiest when ridden. Plenty of horses are great on the ground but are hot to ride. The concerns therefore could be that his offspring may not be for the amater.

Tim Price is known for his rudness, but I was not aware that he was near enough to any audience members to have overheard any of his comments.

I thought it was a great show. I am just not a fan of seeing babies under saddle, so was more then shocked to see 2010 born colts putting on a ridden display. There are a number of reasons for feeling dismayed. For one it puts out the message that this is ok to ride a rising 3yo & expect it to perform in this way. It was the only blight of the day & it is also clear to me that it is endorsed by many professionals as no one seems to have batted an eye over it. Well if this is the way forward for horse production, you can keep it. Perhaps for the few that feel as I do it might be a good reason to buy foals/yearlings before anyone has the chance to damage them! Really sorry to offend yet again, but I believe the horse has as much right to have it's time to grow & enjoy time out being a baby as most our human children do. They should have long enough under saddle, being stabled etc without taking away their chance to be a horse.

Peppermills oldest offspring are 2 1/2 years old . Time will tell how they are to ride. We have one and he's in the field. Incidentally I rode peppermill from 4 year old until he went to john whitaker.the last show I competed him at he was 3rd in a 3 *** international Grand Prix. He was always easy in every respect, the only thing was controlling his unbelievable power,especially in combinations when he was young . There are many videos on YouTube and his website to judge him on, not 5 minutes in Addington.

 

[avthechav]

Peppermills oldest offspring are 2 1/2 years old . Time will tell how they are to ride. We have one and he's in the field. Incidentally I rode peppermill from 4 year old until he went to john whitaker.the last show I competed him at he was 3rd in a 3 *** international Grand Prix. He was always easy in every respect, the only thing was controlling his unbelievable power,especially in combinations when he was young . There are many videos on YouTube and his website to judge him on, not 5 minutes in Addington.

It will be nice to see how these progeny progress and I look forward to seeing them...(maybe in the flesh at next years SS?) I m sure that P is a lovely boy and he was certainly nice to chat to in the stables, and I am sure that his high spirits wouldnt make a difference to people choosing to use him with their mares as like you say, there is endless footage of his quality and his reputation needs no further proof. However the beauty of the showcase is it is a chance to compare stallions against each other in a way that is not usually possible, and no 5 mins at Addington would not be used to based people opinions but this situation does make it valid to discuss the stallions and their respective merits for example in this thread....I dont think that anything detrimental has been said about P- in all honesty what is there to say? The horse has had a phenomenal career and has done all connections proud- I am sure that he will have a fab retirement from top level comps and produce some fantastic offsping.

 

[volatis]

Myself and a friend who has recently returned from working at the leading sj yard in Germany, went to watch on Saturday. Very impressed with the Whitaker stallions, especially Artistio. He was as good as what you would find in Germany. Plenty of variety to suit breeders aims and budgets.
However I do agree with Klaus in a way. The loose jumping didn't showcase the young horses well enough. I love the fact the competition is being run but in my opinion the layout of the jumping lane didn't help and we felt the marking was generous for the standard we saw.
I know it's easy to do it with a big team of experienced ground staff and the preparation of the horses beforehand. So I look forward to this competition growing and developing, but the standard would not have been what any European visitors would be used to.
I definitely came away with some good ideas on British based stallions to use should I go down the breeding route again and look forward to it next year

 

[eventrider23]

The difference between SSGB and European stallion shows/loose jumping is that it ISN'T the same as Germany. Why should we just copy how they do it over there?? We are a very different country in how we breed, raise and produce these horses so why should we copy the Germans?! The loose jumping is only in its second year and has many big things to come in future. Regardless of how the scores compared to German scoring, most will agree that the out and out right horses on the night were successful.

 

[LilMissy]

Um, just wondering why our British shows are being compared to the foreign ones, again?!

Surely we can do our own thing and give it another couple of years it will be just as slick and professional but with our own standards in mind please!

I would have said that the handlers in some cases in the loose jumping need to have practised more but already the standard of handling was sooo much better than last year. If anybody had noted the audience were quick to mutter about anything they thought might have been pushed a bit hard or possibly (even if accidently) flicked with the end of a lunge line. British audiences dont like it! I think for only the second time this competition is a fantastic idea, well run and in general had some very happy looking horses. I was also really pleased to see so many young horses at the correct weight for thier age!!

I commented re Hartpury that I was disappointed to see very young horses out and ridden and still stand by this. I would be just as happy to see them in hand and it does them NO injustice.

Hartpury was good this year in the fact that they took comments on board and had stables open and stallions available for visitors. The showcase again got it right with the atmosphere and facilities. Surely we want to encourage more people into both venues and doing it the 'foreign way' I am positive will not do this!

I took a friend who adores horses with me this year, she has had no previous interest in breeding really (other than cooing over my foals!) but she had a great time. Especially at the showcase. She thought the masterclass/demos were fantastic and the demos by stallions and riders were great. She really enjoyed herself and couldnt understand why such a fantastic horse show didnt have more people there.

 

[shirleyno2]

Um, just wondering why our British shows are being compared to the foreign ones, again?!

Surely we can do our own thing and give it another couple of years it will be just as slick and professional but with our own standards in mind please!

I would have said that the handlers in some cases in the loose jumping need to have practised more but already the standard of handling was sooo much better than last year. If anybody had noted the audience were quick to mutter about anything they thought might have been pushed a bit hard or possibly (even if accidently) flicked with the end of a lunge line. British audiences dont like it! I think for only the second time this competition is a fantastic idea, well run and in general had some very happy looking horses. I was also really pleased to see so many young horses at the correct weight for thier age!!

I commented re Hartpury that I was disappointed to see very young horses out and ridden and still stand by this. I would be just as happy to see them in hand and it does them NO injustice.

Hartpury was good this year in the fact that they took comments on board and had stables open and stallions available for visitors. The showcase again got it right with the atmosphere and facilities. Surely we want to encourage more people into both venues and doing it the 'foreign way' I am positive will not do this!

I took a friend who adores horses with me this year, she has had no previous interest in breeding really (other than cooing over my foals!) but she had a great time. Especially at the showcase. She thought the masterclass/demos were fantastic and the demos by stallions and riders were great. She really enjoyed herself and couldnt understand why such a fantastic horse show didnt have more people there.

Well said!! And glad you enjoyed!
We are not the bleeding continent - and the British public are not the continent public. Two very different things. We will never please all of the people all of the time.
Britain's are are out and out animal lovers, especially horses (and my dogs!!). I too personally believe in giving horses time to mature, that said EVERY horse is an Individual - I left 2 of my own ridden four year olds at home and took a 3 yr old in hand - My 4 year olds are just not ready, one is quite nervous and one is a giant and his brain is too far away from his feet to co-ordinate!! The 3 yr old however is Mr Chilled himself.
Loose jumping is an art, one wrong move, whether it is too slow or too quick with the lunge-whip can be costly, I think of it as if you were riding to the fence, you see your stride and it's a long one - you put your leg on -use the lunge whip- or you are on a deep stride and need to sit quiet - no whip - but it's a double with an oxer out, so not too quiet or your horse will stop or go splat - a little crack of the whip in the middle of the double maybe.
Obviously my opinion only!!
The winning horse has a video on the SSGB fb page, he has his ears pricked and is jumping for fun, now I wasn't a judge but I'm guessing attitude is everything, as well as technique, scope and carefulness, yes you can imagine riding this horse round a big track in a couple of years time!!
ps. he did flying changes all by himself too!!!!

 

[HBM1]

I just saw the video of one of the horses loose jumping and he is jumping for fun. If I took my youngster for the loose jumping, this is how I would want him to be for one of his first outings, enjoying it and entertaining, but under no pressure. I agree it isn't as you see continental shows and I think that is a good thing. We have all seen youngsters at the European events who are apparently superb loose jumping as two or three year olds, but what happens to them after that? They are over-produced to get them to look that mature and good at two years old so they can be used as stallions, but many do not go on to have a competition career at all. I only want to see youngsters having fun at this age, not taking part in a very serious competition.

 

[Truly]

I'm a bit confused by some of the comments on here ???

I came to see stallions...up close and personal!

Didn't want to see them from a distance with flashing light displays!

Also confused with comments about some being exhuberant?...why would that mean they would throw a sharp unridable foal ? Surely they are allowed to be excited?...it would be different if they showed a nappy dominant behaviour?...but excitement at the beginning of the year when many haven't been out to a party for a while.

Comments on Peppermill seem strange...as I saw he looked unhappy in his bit/contact?...wouldn't have thought 'Oh look at his head carriage, I won't use him!'
He and Arko have already proved themselves...it was just really nice to have them there and see them up close

The loose jumping commentary could have been more informative and the scoring explained as to why they were awarded those scores...I came to the conclusion it was the technique and the approach and attitude...but it would have been nice to hear it instead of guessing.
Also I'm a bit bemused how (supposedly) one persons comments could condone the whole show?

I'm sure each year there will be improvements and more people attending....but I thought it was really good and very personable being in the stables with the stallions and owners. Loved the variety of stallions attending

I'd much rather that than all the glitze and seeing them from a distance.
As I said 'I came to see the stallions'

 

[koeffee]

Well Said Shirley!!!

 

[no_no_nanette]

I'm a bit confused by some of the comments on here ???

I came to see stallions...up close and personal!

Didn't want to see them from a distance with flashing light displays!

Also confused with comments about some being exhuberant?...why would that mean they would throw a sharp unridable foal ? Surely they are allowed to be excited?...it would be different if they showed a nappy dominant behaviour?...but excitement at the beginning of the year when many haven't been out to a party for a while.

Comments on Peppermill seem strange...as I saw he looked unhappy in his bit/contact?...wouldn't have thought 'Oh look at his head carriage, I won't use him!'
He and Arko have already proved themselves...it was just really nice to have them there and see them up close

The loose jumping commentary could have been more informative and the scoring explained as to why they were awarded those scores...I came to the conclusion it was the technique and the approach and attitude...but it would have been nice to hear it instead of guessing.
Also I'm a bit bemused how (supposedly) one persons comments could condone the whole show?

I'm sure each year there will be improvements and more people attending....but I thought it was really good and very personable being in the stables with the stallions and owners. Loved the variety of stallions attending

I'd much rather that than all the glitze and seeing them from a distance.
As I said 'I came to see the stallions'

Couldn't agree more. I've been to a number of stallion shows on the continent, and whilst it would be great for our showcases to attract the audiences that they get over there (which I'm sure will come with time), as you say there's an awful lot of glitz and disco music involved, and the horses seen from a distance, but very little "up close and personal". Many - not all - of the big commercial studs in Germany choose to produce for early maturity and have two-year-olds in the arena already under saddle and performing dressage routines .... There's an article in H&H this week which just underlines how much stress advanced dressage training puts on the horses' ligaments, underlining the fact that many of these horses are bred and produced to perform as early as possible, and many will not have long competition careers. I hope that we will find our own way of doing things in the UK which will involve a focus on the welfare of the horse, building robustness and soundness, and breeding and producing horses that are "built to last". If that is what the UK breeding industry comes to be recognised for, as well as breeding horses that will perform at the highest levels, then all the better. I think that the Light family and many other breeders in the UK are providing a standard that we should be encouraging and aspiring to. (And PS I agree that it would have been interesting to have had some commentary/feedback on the loose jumping scoring ..... Maybe next year?)

 

[cazzy]

Thanks for feedback on the loose jumping people.
Next year we will announce the individual scores given for Scope, Technique, Athletiscm, Attitude and Overall. Highest mark for each section was 20 giving a highest total score of 100.
On the entry form we did request commentary notes - some owners completed this section and some did not.

 

[shirleyno2]

Caz beat me to a reply!! Yes we can definitely announce the individual scores, I think one or two lost marks in the attitude section and lets face it the best jumper in the world is not going to be so good if he/she doesn't want to play ball. With half hundred weight of horse it's always easier when they are willing participants!!
Personally when I ask a horse to do something new, his answer should always be "ok lets give it a go" I don't like them so much when their answer is "make me"!! I hope that makes sense!!
Thanks for the feedback! Keep it coming

 

[Rollin]

Um, just wondering why our British shows are being compared to the foreign ones, again?!

Surely we can do our own thing and give it another couple of years it will be just as slick and professional but with our own standards in mind please!

I would have said that the handlers in some cases in the loose jumping need to have practised more but already the standard of handling was sooo much better than last year. If anybody had noted the audience were quick to mutter about anything they thought might have been pushed a bit hard or possibly (even if accidently) flicked with the end of a lunge line. British audiences dont like it! I think for only the second time this competition is a fantastic idea, well run and in general had some very happy looking horses. I was also really pleased to see so many young horses at the correct weight for thier age!!

I commented re Hartpury that I was disappointed to see very young horses out and ridden and still stand by this. I would be just as happy to see them in hand and it does them NO injustice.

Hartpury was good this year in the fact that they took comments on board and had stables open and stallions available for visitors. The showcase again got it right with the atmosphere and facilities. Surely we want to encourage more people into both venues and doing it the 'foreign way' I am positive will not do this!

I took a friend who adores horses with me this year, she has had no previous interest in breeding really (other than cooing over my foals!) but she had a great time. Especially at the showcase. She thought the masterclass/demos were fantastic and the demos by stallions and riders were great. She really enjoyed herself and couldnt understand why such a fantastic horse show didnt have more people there.

I am so pleased to read your comments on young horses.

We attended Equita Lyon in 2011 and watched the SF championships for THREE year olds. They were loose jumped, shown in hand and then jumped with a rider. Ok not big fences but this is an October event so a May foal is still very much a baby.

It is a real problem for us. We have a Shagya stallion approved at aged three (in hand) he has to prove performance by the time he is 6. Sadly even in the UK where I have looked for SJ trainers, I am told I am not ambitious enough for him. I don't want him jumping more than a metre this year - he is just five or competing against the clock.

The crazy thing is that endurance rules will protect him because young horses can only do 20kms at 4 years of age, possibly 30kms at the end of their fourth year and 40km at 5, Timings are specified too.

The problem for me as Brit breeding in France, is that I cannot catch up with my young horses on the French competition circuit.

Britain should be promoting the slower and more sympathetic approach to bringing on young horses. Why spend money on an 'apparently' talented young horse which has a limited life time in competition.

 

[Sportznight]

Britain should be promoting the slower and more sympathetic approach to bringing on young horses. Why spend money on an 'apparently' talented young horse which has a limited life time in competition.

I completely and utterly agree with this!! Which is why my 7yo was broken as a late 4yo and only compete 3 times as a 5yo and a handful of times last year and why my 5yo is yet to be ridden away! They are horses for life and they are mine and I couldn't give a damn about age classes.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Cambrio van Overis Z is very like his sire Clintissimo, and although he is not yet three, the power already evident through his loins and hindquarters was very impressive indeed. He looked to me like a superstar in the making.

Sadly, I couldn't get there but looking at the pics, this youngster jumped off the screen at me. It will be very interesting to see him in a couple of years (but I'm planning one of his foals in my field by then!)

 

[christine48]

I only went on Sunday and I was disappointed. The pony stallion Rembrandt stood out for me and I'd love to see what he throws to big mares.
The Woodlander boys have fantastic bloodlines, but Clapton was so immature I'd like to see how he develops. Super tramp looked lovely in the stable, but a bit hot in the warm up.
Loved the two ID stallions for a TB mare.
H Tobago looked stunning but I'm not sure about his temperament ( though its difficult to tell as in hand Arabs seem to be so hyped up), I'd like to see his stock come out under saddle.
A couple of stallions looked unsound behind.

 

[JanetGeorge]

H Tobago looked stunning but I'm not sure about his temperament ( though its difficult to tell as in hand Arabs seem to be so hyped up), I'd like to see his stock come out under saddle.

I'm not at ALL concerned about H Tobago's temperament - the dozey git fell in love with the stallion in the next stable (Avanti Amorous Archie - who has a fab temperament which I KNOW is passed to his stock as I have a number by him) and apparently they were nuzzling and licking each other at every opportunity. A stallion with a bad temperament doesn't do that!! I have 2 mares in foal to him for this year who have previously had foals by my VERY laidback ID stallion - I would expect them to be livelier because of the increase in 'blood' but I'm not at ALL worried that their temperaments won't be just as good!

 

[Maesfen]

I wouldn't have thought H Tobago's temperament was a worry at all, it certainly wasn't for me when I visited him at the stud two years ago; very chilled and friendly although they all act differently when taken to a party.
My AA colt by him is almost the same although he does think he's quite important at times; like most colts, he's just cheeky and bright but not a nasty bone in his body; just the character and temperament you need for competition.

 

[imafluffybunny]

I think H Tobagos foal that was in the arena is testament to his temperament, I don't think any of mine would have walked out so quietly at that age!

 

[ritajennings]

I did post a comment about HTobago and Archie but H&H have removed it! Well good bye horse and hound wish I could say it was nice knowing you but I am afraid I can't as you are a complete pain in the arse, and please feel free too remove this when some small minded person reports it as well, someone should get a life!!

 

[eventrider23]

We had a Tobago foal here this year out of a very hot Trakehner mare and the foal was the most relaxed, easygoing baby I have ever met. She fully converted several 'anti- arab' friends who are now very keen to use him in future. I know nothing I have myself would have ever taken the atmosphere at Addington in such a chilled manner as Zack (foal at SSGB).

 

[eventrider23]

I have some pics I took in the stables of Tobago and Archie all loved up. Might post them on here later.

 

[ritajennings]

Ooooooo Jane you little Dare Devil you , watch out you are not infractioned!!!! x

 

[eventrider23]

Well they are my pics...taken on my camera....and I have no foals at home nor mares in foal to either stallion so the following pics simply cannot be taken as any form of advertising....other than showing two rather in love adorable boys!

It was an adorable moment for the to boys and they had a crowd of people all going 'aahhhhh' as they kept licking each other. Almost as though it is their yearly catch up on life not having seen each other since SSGB last year when they were in same stables.

Archie says 'Psst Tobago....come here!"

 

[crellow4]

It was lovely to see Archie and HTobago sweet talking through the wall.
I was a bit disappointed however with the HTobago baby and wondered if I'm the only one who expected him to show more quality? This foal scored 9.18 and was awarded an elite status at the Hatrpury Futurity.

 

[eventrider23]

TBF to the baby it is the middle of winter and I don't think they knew he would be going till a few weeks ago and he was living out till then so not a long prep time. Personally I wouldn't take any of my babies anywhere at 8/9 months or at all in their first winter as they ALWAYS end up looking like yaks or get a stage of the fuglies. I think it was in all a real credit that he behaved soooo well in the daunting arena. Give him some time and let that winter coat come out and that shining baby of last summer will be back I'm sure. I had a gorgeous colt a few years ago who at that same age looked sooo awful I kept questioning where he had come from and my beautiful baby gone.....sure enough though by May my beautiful boy was back and looking every bit as beautiful as he did at 3 months.

 

[eventrider23]

Here is said colt - he is a proper weanling in his winter hairy fuglies as I am sure most breeders will agree. There aren't many babies of this age who would behave soo impeccably and it is a testament to the his dad as all the babies I have known by him have been like this. Give him time and his winter weanling stage will be gone and he will be gorgeous again one day I am sure.

 

[christine48]

I'm not at ALL concerned about H Tobago's temperament - the dozey git fell in love with the stallion in the next stable (Avanti Amorous Archie - who has a fab temperament which I KNOW is passed to his stock as I have a number by him) and apparently they were nuzzling and licking each other at every opportunity. A stallion with a bad temperament doesn't do that!! I have 2 mares in foal to him for this year who have previously had foals by my VERY laidback ID stallion - I would expect them to be livelier because of the increase in 'blood' but I'm not at ALL worried that their temperaments won't be just as good!

I wasn't referring to him in the stable, but in the ring. He hasn't done much under saddle himself, so I reserve judgement until his offspring prove themselves under saddle.
I personally prefer to use stallions that either have proven ride ability or offspring out competing. Each to their own, that's just my opinion.

 

[crellow4]

If the aim of presenting Lekanto alongside his sire was to demonstrate a calm temperament then I think we can safely say that objective was achieved - he was calm to the point of looking depressed! If however, he was there to showcase other attributes of the stallion, I think sadly he failed. I can appreciate he was in his 'winter woollies' - I too have babies at home which live out and currently resemble yaks. Despite this they are well grown, well covered and have an enthusiasm for life which I failed to see in this chap. On balance I think it was a brave move to take him, not a move I would have made if he were mine.

 

[eventrider23]

I too as I said wouldn't have taken a baby of mine at that age as I truly think it is not a good time to show off any baby. I was there with a friend's stallion though and so saw a lot of him and he was certainly not depressed in the morning when let loose for a play in the collecting ring. In all the long weekend I would say got to him as it would to most babies of that age and ok by taking him for a walk in the morning to see the arena, etc it took the sparkle out of him fair enough but from a breeder perspective I would always do that with any of my own if the opportunity were there as it is a big ask to expect a baby to go in that arena with no prepping....something seen in the 3 yr old stallions who found it all a bit scary as is normal. I have spoken to quite a few breeders over the weekend and pretty much all without fail have said to me that they were impressed with his temperament, etc given that the arabs are notorious for their sharpness and again all agreed that he was simply a fugly weanling at the wrong time of year. Yes I agree it was a brave move to take him given it isn't alway easy to see through these stages but all said and done the overall consensus was positive - at least on comments I have heard from a large number of breeders and spectators.