Struggling with hacking

[emiliaa]

he looks like a good honest jumper, and you may have part of the answer why he is playing up, you said he was unfit ,underweight and overjumped when you got him......you posted asking for help with hacking and that is what we have done, the poster who said you may have to sell only had your best interests at heart as it was sounding like he was getting dangerous out hacking and as you have been riding a short time (compared to many of us) the option of selling was important to point out. its not really good for horses to never hack out and only work in a school so if you can sort this out you can enjoy hacking him out and it will give him a change of scenery and you will gain in confidence...let us know how you get on

I made this forum so I will find hacking easier even if it takes a while, not for advice about selling my horse. I don't know about you but I am not one of those people who just buy and sell horses just like that for the smallest of reasons. I have fallen off the school horses at my riding school a lot more than him, you can't tell from this 1 video but normally he is a lazy donkey and I can DEFINITELY control him (just not on hacks hence why I need advice)

Sorry I just realised that this sounds really aggressive it is nothing towards you I am just very upset that I am being recommended to sell my baby, Thanks Mimi X

 

[Meowy Catkin]

To walk in hand he is very strong but controllable. I have owned him for about 9 months and he was only used for hacking at his old home in fact I hacked him when I tried him out and he acted like a saint while he was following this pony. Thanks X

Just in case anyone missed it, he hacked out fine in his last home.

 

[AmyMay]

Wrll, I’m back in. What a fabulous, honest, saint of a horse. I love him.

Out of interest, was he 5 stage vetted prior to purchase?

 

[emiliaa]

Just in case anyone missed it, he hacked out fine in his last home.

I don't know whether you're just saying that or if you're trying to make me feel bad. But I just want to say that he is the best cared for horse and I only want the best for him he means the world to me. I know it is probably my fault that he acts that way as I get scared and let him get away with it so he does it again. This only happens on hacks which we rarely go on I never brought him as a happy hacker just an allrounder and he is the most amazing thing that has ever happened to me. All I did by posting this thread was ask for advice I'm sorry if I took your comment the wrong way. Mimi.

 

[splashgirl45]

Just in case anyone missed it, he hacked out fine in his last home.

i didnt miss it, but he was, in the ops words, underweight,unfit and overjumped so that would make a temperament difference.

 

[emiliaa]

Wrll, I’m back in. What a fabulous, honest, saint of a horse. I love him.

Out of interest, was he 5 stage vetted prior to purchase?

Thank you!! He is really special, yes he was. They were concerned about his back so my mum paid for an xray or something of it on the day (I wasn't there I got him as a surprise) and his back was clear so he passed. Thanks, Mimi

 

[joosie]

Hang on, nobody criticised your riding or said your horse was "atrocious". The suggestion was that you might find you had more fun and be safer with a more straightforward horse. If you are happy with what you've got then good for you. Ultimately if you think your horse is right for you then it doesn't matter if other people do or not

 

[splashgirl45]

well mimi, you are very lucky to have parents who bought a nice horse for you, hope you manage to sort out the hacking issue and get to enjoy hacking as well as the other things....

 

[emiliaa]

Hang on, nobody criticised your riding or said your horse was "atrocious". The suggestion was that you might find you had more fun and be safer with a more straightforward horse. If you are happy with what you've got then good for you. Ultimately if you think your horse is right for you then it doesn't matter if other people do or not

Thank you he is right for me I love him more than anything, hacking is just an issue we need to overcome thanks

 

[emiliaa]

well mimi, you are very lucky to have parents who bought a nice horse for you, hope you manage to sort out the hacking issue and get to enjoy hacking as well as the other things....

Thanks X

 

[AmyMay]

I had a look at your other videos. I think he’s probably too honest to be naughty for no reason.

In your shoes I’d still probably ask your instructor to have a little ‘no pressure’ hack out on him. But also seeing him move I’d possibly want a chat with your vet about looking at his hocks to rule out any issues there, which could be causing discomfort and therefore a reluctance to hack out.

 

[emiliaa]

I had a look at your other videos. I think he’s probably too honest to be naughty for no reason.

In your shoes I’d still probably ask your instructor to have a little ‘no pressure’ hack out on him. But also seeing him move I’d possibly want a chat with your vet about looking at his hocks to rule out any issues there, which could be causing discomfort and therefore a reluctance to hack out.

Hi, we have had the chiro out twice in the last couple of months because we were worried about him, chiro just said that he has a lot of tensions or something but it wasn't major he was just VERY stiff and the second time he came he said that he was a lot better so said he'll see him in a few months. Do you think I should get a vet out too? Also sorry to be annoying but what do you mean by no pressure hack? Thanks Mimi X

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I don't know whether you're just saying that or if you're trying to make me feel bad.

I did not say it to make you feel bad. I just wondered if the comment had been missed due the comment below (which was part of a very helpful post) and was trying to be helpful.

BUT whether he will ever get his head around hacking out on his own.......... one has to ask that question whether it can ever be achieveable TBH.

 

[emiliaa]

I did not say it to make you feel bad. I just wondered if the comment had been missed due the comment below (which was part of a very helpful post) and was trying to be helpful.

Okay, sorry for taking it the wrong way thanks, Mimi X

 

[AmyMay]

Hi, we have had the chiro out twice in the last couple of months because we were worried about him, chiro just said that he has a lot of tensions or something but it wasn't major he was just VERY stiff and the second time he came he said that he was a lot better so said he'll see him in a few months. Do you think I should get a vet out too? Also sorry to be annoying but what do you mean by no pressure hack? Thanks Mimi X

Yes, I’d want the vet to look at him.

What I mean by a no pressure hack is not getting in to a major argument with him. If he will happily go out with a confident jockey, who only needs a little leg on for him to go forward - great. But if it looks as if a major argument will ensue then back off until after the vet exam.

The fact that he is showing stiffness (which is also obvious in your videos) could have a number of reasons, tension, incorrect work (with lack of suppling exercises) or a medical problem ie back issues or lameness.

 

[emiliaa]

Yes, I’d want the vet to look at him.

What I mean by a no pressure hack is not getting in to a major argument with him. If he will happily go out with a confident jockey, who only needs a little leg on for him to go forward - great. But if it looks as if a major argument will ensue then back off until after the vet exam.

The fact that he is showing stiffness (which is also obvious in your videos) could have a number of reasons, tension, incorrect work (with lack of suppling exercises) or a medical problem ie back issues or lameness.

Okay thanks! X

 

[PeterNatt]

Now that the longer daylight hours are with us what would be the simplest solution to attempt to resolve your horses hacking issues would be to find another horse rider with a totally laid back 100% bombproof/spookproof horse and hack out with them on a daily basis starting with very short hacks of say 30 minutes and gradually over the next four months build them up to 2 hour hacks. Try to do hacks which are circular and do them both clockwise and anti-clockwise so that your horse gets used to each direction. However it is important that you do this on a daily basis so that hacking becomes part of your horses daily routine. After say 4 weeks start hacking your horse out by itself on alternative routes starting with the shortest of routes and gradually increasing them as your horses confidence increases. I have been very fortunate in having horses that I could hack out by themselves anywhere including the busiest of central London weekday traffic and this is the way I have done it. Getting a horse to be good out hacking is as time consuming as getting a horse to be good at dressage/show jumping or any of the other disciplines. Some take to it better than others as in all things in life. Above all please stay safe and always wear protective equipment such as a crash hat, back protector and Hi-Viz. Wishing you much enjoyment and fun with your horse.

 

[TPO]

It sounds like you are already doing everything that is usually suggested on this forum and that you and your family have been very sensible when purchasing a horse.

You had him vetted and x-rayed, you trialled him doing what you want to use him for including hacking. You keep him on a livery yard where there sounds like there is an experienced and helpful yard owner/manager. You appear to be getting regular lessons and have an instructor. The horse has seen a dentist, gets chiro and has had a saddle fitter. You certainly appear to have done everything by the book!

While 16.3hh is a big horse and can sound like a big horse for a person who has "only" been riding for 3yrs in that video you don't look overhorsed at all and I'm guessing that you're relatively tall as you look like a perfect fit.

The video wasn't what I was expecting from someone who had "only" been riding for 3yrs, first time out competing on a new horse. Everyone could be forgiven for riding like a Wally in that situation but I thought it was a very nice round and you already looked good together. Whatever you've been doing where with who for those 3yrs has been time well spent as I think you rode him very nicely.

The only thing I would pick up on, and it's not directly related to your hacking issue, is the saddle fit. You said you bought him in poorer condition 9mths ago. In that time he'll have changed shape and will again with grass coming through, lighter nights/better weather so riding more and changing muscularly with work and the chiro. I'd get someone experienced, of not your fitter, to check how his saddle is fitting as his shape alters.

I'd always say rule out pain but in some instances it is them trying it on and/or our riding. In this instance I'm inclined to think your horse thought he'd have a picnic out hacking and then had a wee tantrum when that was stopped. He threw his toys out the pram and the result was he got to go home (back to his field) quicker and he now thinks this is a great plan...

I echo the suggestion to have your instructor ride him so he learns his carry on isn't ok. Its feel and timing that comes with experience to push him on right when you feel him start to think the thought before it becomes an action. Once your instructor has ridden him through it (it might take a while for horse to get the idea of ha it has been going on a while) then have instructor work with you in the school and out hacking giving you techniques to deal with him. It could be something as relatively simple as a transition or bending him to distract him from thinking about acting up and having grass and/or a strop and keeping his feet moving.

Good luck and please report back once you've spoken with your instructor

 

[MDB]

Assuming the horse is healthy and sound, this is a training issue, not an equipment issue with different bit, reins, martingale etc. He is being very disrespectful by constantly trying to eat, and down right naughty by napping etc. Knowing that you are only 15, I agree that you need professional help. However, in saying that, there will be a ton of things you can do on your own to improve your leadership and his manners. How does he lead? Is he bargy? If you stand still with him on the end of the lead rope will he yank his head away to try to eat grass? Does he bring his focus back to you if you take up slack on the rope or is his attention all over the place? Does he move out of your space respectfully with light touch? Or do you have to literally push him over? I am a big fan of Warwich Sciller videos on YouTube. You might find some of his Focus for Relaxation videos very useful. And as for the napping and not wanting to hack, his Destination Addiction videos are very worthwhile. He talks about making the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard, and following his work got me out hacking alone with my 11 year old PRE mare in 2 weeks. Her behaviour wasn't as bad as your horse, but she could not be out of sight of the other horse for a second initially. Within 2 weeks we were hacking alone. In a month she was transformed, once she learned to look for the right answer it was not difficult. Good luck. D

 

[emiliaa]

It sounds like you are already doing everything that is usually suggested on this forum and that you and your family have been very sensible when purchasing a horse.

You had him vetted and x-rayed, you trialled him doing what you want to use him for including hacking. You keep him on a livery yard where there sounds like there is an experienced and helpful yard owner/manager. You appear to be getting regular lessons and have an instructor. The horse has seen a dentist, gets chiro and has had a saddle fitter. You certainly appear to have done everything by the book!

While 16.3hh is a big horse and can sound like a big horse for a person who has "only" been riding for 3yrs in that video you don't look overhorsed at all and I'm guessing that you're relatively tall as you look like a perfect fit.

The video wasn't what I was expecting from someone who had "only" been riding for 3yrs, first time out competing on a new horse. Everyone could be forgiven for riding like a Wally in that situation but I thought it was a very nice round and you already looked good together. Whatever you've been doing where with who for those 3yrs has been time well spent as I think you rode him very nicely.

The only thing I would pick up on, and it's not directly related to your hacking issue, is the saddle fit. You said you bought him in poorer condition 9mths ago. In that time he'll have changed shape and will again with grass coming through, lighter nights/better weather so riding more and changing muscularly with work and the chiro. I'd get someone experienced, of not your fitter, to check how his saddle is fitting as his shape alters.

I'd always say rule out pain but in some instances it is them trying it on and/or our riding. In this instance I'm inclined to think your horse thought he'd have a picnic out hacking and then had a wee tantrum when that was stopped. He threw his toys out the pram and the result was he got to go home (back to his field) quicker and he now thinks this is a great plan...

I echo the suggestion to have your instructor ride him so he learns his carry on isn't ok. Its feel and timing that comes with experience to push him on right when you feel him start to think the thought before it becomes an action. Once your instructor has ridden him through it (it might take a while for horse to get the idea of ha it has been going on a while) then have instructor work with you in the school and out hacking giving you techniques to deal with him. It could be something as relatively simple as a transition or bending him to distract him from thinking about acting up and having grass and/or a strop and keeping his feet moving.

Good luck and please report back once you've spoken with your instructor

Thank you for your really kind comment, I have had the saddler out and she adjusted it and said the fit wasn’t too bad but what I read online is that the saddle has to fit horse AND rider so I am worried that it doesn’t fit me and that might be affecting him? If that makes sense. Thanks X

 

[emiliaa]

Now that the longer daylight hours are with us what would be the simplest solution to attempt to resolve your horses hacking issues would be to find another horse rider with a totally laid back 100% bombproof/spookproof horse and hack out with them on a daily basis starting with very short hacks of say 30 minutes and gradually over the next four months build them up to 2 hour hacks. Try to do hacks which are circular and do them both clockwise and anti-clockwise so that your horse gets used to each direction. However it is important that you do this on a daily basis so that hacking becomes part of your horses daily routine. After say 4 weeks start hacking your horse out by itself on alternative routes starting with the shortest of routes and gradually increasing them as your horses confidence increases. I have been very fortunate in having horses that I could hack out by themselves anywhere including the busiest of central London weekday traffic and this is the way I have done it. Getting a horse to be good out hacking is as time consuming as getting a horse to be good at dressage/show jumping or any of the other disciplines. Some take to it better than others as in all things in life. Above all please stay safe and always wear protective equipment such as a crash hat, back protector and Hi-Viz. Wishing you much enjoyment and fun with your horse.

Thank you! X

 

[emiliaa]

Assuming the horse is healthy and sound, this is a training issue, not an equipment issue with different bit, reins, martingale etc. He is being very disrespectful by constantly trying to eat, and down right naughty by napping etc. Knowing that you are only 15, I agree that you need professional help. However, in saying that, there will be a ton of things you can do on your own to improve your leadership and his manners. How does he lead? Is he bargy? If you stand still with him on the end of the lead rope will he yank his head away to try to eat grass? Does he bring his focus back to you if you take up slack on the rope or is his attention all over the place? Does he move out of your space respectfully with light touch? Or do you have to literally push him over? I am a big fan of Warwich Sciller videos on YouTube. You might find some of his Focus for Relaxation videos very useful. And as for the napping and not wanting to hack, his Destination Addiction videos are very worthwhile. He talks about making the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard, and following his work got me out hacking alone with my 11 year old PRE mare in 2 weeks. Her behaviour wasn't as bad as your horse, but she could not be out of sight of the other horse for a second initially. Within 2 weeks we were hacking alone. In a month she was transformed, once she learned to look for the right answer it was not difficult. Good luck. D

When I lead him he is normally very good. He is really good on the ground I think someone spent a lot of time working on him at his old home although if I do let him eat grass while leading he constantly will dive his head down after and is very strong. Thanks for the YouTube suggestion I will definetly check him out. Thanks X

 

[TPO]

Thank you for your really kind comment, I have had the saddler out and she adjusted it and said the fit wasn’t too bad but what I read online is that the saddle has to fit horse AND rider so I am worried that it doesn’t fit me and that might be affecting him? If that makes sense. Thanks X

Dont stress the saddle fitter would assess you in the saddle and that fit too. If you're ok schooling and jumping etc and it's just hacking that you feel out of balance that might be more nerves/anxiety/expectation of him playing up than how the saddle fits you.

You are right that he'll pick up on how you feel and even if you're slightly worried about hacking (natural all things considered!) he'll feel that and has possibly been using that to his advantage. Another possibility is that he's slightly anxious hacking alone if hes always had company so looks for reassurance from you. As hes already given you a wee fright with his behaviour you're not able to mentally do that right now. Another reason to get your instructor/a confident and capable, calm rider on him to see if he is 1) testing boundaries and being a mini hooligan 2) anxious and needs a confident rider to get him through this blip or 3) something else that can be investigated once 1 and 2 have been exhausted.

While you've got someone working on the hacking issue perhaps ask for some lessons in the school to help strengthen your seat and work towards that all important "independent seat". That'll help you feel more secure in any saddle and more confident riding him through any blips hacking

 

[emiliaa]

Dont stress the saddle fitter would assess you in the saddle and that fit too. If you're ok schooling and jumping etc and it's just hacking that you feel out of balance that might be more nerves/anxiety/expectation of him playing up than how the saddle fits you.

You are right that he'll pick up on how you feel and even if you're slightly worried about hacking (natural all things considered!) he'll feel that and has possibly been using that to his advantage. Another possibility is that he's slightly anxious hacking alone if hes always had company so looks for reassurance from you. As hes already given you a wee fright with his behaviour you're not able to mentally do that right now. Another reason to get your instructor/a confident and capable, calm rider on him to see if he is 1) testing boundaries and being a mini hooligan 2) anxious and needs a confident rider to get him through this blip or 3) something else that can be investigated once 1 and 2 have been exhausted.

While you've got someone working on the hacking issue perhaps ask for some lessons in the school to help strengthen your seat and work towards that all important "independent seat". That'll help you feel more secure in any saddle and more confident riding him through any blips hacking

Thank you X I would just like to say that in the video I was just riding around 2 sides of the field and turning because I didn’t want to be too far from my mum and he did this when I tried to turn again even though he had already walked up there. Could that still be him being anxious? Or is he more likely just taking advantage of me? Thanks Mimi X

 

[TPO]

Thank you X I would just like to say that in the video I was just riding around 2 sides of the field and turning because I didn’t want to be too far from my mum and he did this when I tried to turn again even though he had already walked up there. Could that still be him being anxious? Or is he more likely just taking advantage of me? Thanks Mimi X

It's impossible to say without knowing him and you. The camera is your view; if your mum had been filming it might have been possible to see thread up to his actions and how he looked (facially) while pulling his moves.

He might be worried or he could have been having a strop simply because he'd already done it and didn't want to do it again.

Your best bet is to tie in with your instructor and if possible have them hack him a few times and then accompany you when you start back hacking.

Is your mum horsey? Even if shes not it would be good to have her be there to see what the instructor does. When you're riding she might pick up things from instructor that you haven't (because you've been focussed on the riding your horse thing!) that she can help with when accompanying you on future hacks.

 

[emiliaa]

I would just like to say how grateful I am for everyone’s replies and advice I really appreciate it X

 

[emiliaa]

It's impossible to say without knowing him and you. The camera is your view; if your mum had been filming it might have been possible to see thread up to his actions and how he looked (facially) while pulling his moves.

He might be worried or he could have been having a strop simply because he'd already done it and didn't want to do it again.

Your best bet is to tie in with your instructor and if possible have them hack him a few times and then accompany you when you start back hacking.

Is your mum horsey? Even if shes not it would be good to have her be there to see what the instructor does. When you're riding she might pick up things from instructor that you haven't (because you've been focussed on the riding your horse thing!) that she can help with when accompanying you on future hacks.

She isn’t horsey but she always tries her best to learn new things about them and for someone who hasn’t been around them for that long I think she already knows A LOT. I am going to talk to my instructor today about whether she can hack him out. Thanks Mimi X

 

[be positive]

I am really not sure but my guess is that he wasn’t, I think he was always around other horses as he gets serious separation anxiety in any situation,

I think this is the most important piece of information and one that has not really been picked up on, also when he was tried at his old home he was good following his pony friend so may well have never hacked alone.

There is a fair amount to deal with especially for a young rider but continuing to try taking him out alone is going to be reinforcing his behaviour, having mum walking behind you or even in front of you is alone as far as he is concerned, it may give the OP a bit more confidence but not a horse with 'serious separation anxiety' he needs to hack with a quiet companion that is ridden by a confident experienced rider to get him started, if your instructor can be involved that will help but I suspect it will be a long time before he is happy hacking alone and he may well never be, some just miss that stage in the early years or have a bad experience and want to remain at home where they feel safe.
At the end of the day you need to be safe and it is not the end of the world if he only hacks once in a while with a friend to help him feel secure.

 

[emiliaa]

I think this is the most important piece of information and one that has not really been picked up on, also when he was tried at his old home he was good following his pony friend so may well have never hacked alone.

There is a fair amount to deal with especially for a young rider but continuing to try taking him out alone is going to be reinforcing his behaviour, having mum walking behind you or even in front of you is alone as far as he is concerned, it may give the OP a bit more confidence but not a horse with 'serious separation anxiety' he needs to hack with a quiet companion that is ridden by a confident experienced rider to get him started, if your instructor can be involved that will help but I suspect it will be a long time before he is happy hacking alone and he may well never be, some just miss that stage in the early years or have a bad experience and want to remain at home where they feel safe.
At the end of the day you need to be safe and it is not the end of the world if he only hacks once in a while with a friend to help him feel secure.

Thank you! Yes I think he is a lot better in company although he does still do it when he is. X

 

[Littlebear]

I am probably repeating what others have said but I would strongly recommend investing in a pro rider to teach him to get out of these habits before they get any worse, if you could have someone a few times a week for a while I am sure this will be sorted in no time, I have watched so many horses like this and worse come in from owners that throw this behaviour and worse at them and they will be able to have the experience and confidence to say no and ride it out and then will help you learn how to do once he has learnt it isn't going to be tolerated. They are quickly turned into polite and respectful horses with the right training.
I realise 'pro rider' covers a huge variety of people and when you ask for recommendations make sure they are very experienced with this kind of thing and I realise they can be expensive but its definitely worth the investment at this point!
Good luck x