Stuck, mis sold horse

[stormox]

I was circling him on front of a jump, he thought we were jumping it, I was trying to settle him to have a better approach. And he went, it was like a blind panic

Could it be that he really did panic- at the thought of jumping? Maybe he hasnt done much if he was a show horse? Or not been taught properly.

 

[Stingbably]

Could it be that he really did panic- at the thought of jumping? Maybe he hasnt done much if he was a show horse? Or not been taught properly.

He was a working hunter and show hunter, so sadly not the case, even if he wasn’t there was no over facing him we were going back to basics with everything and taking it with baby steps as he seemed so green

 

[Bellaboo18]

I was circling him on front of a jump, he thought we were jumping it, I was trying to settle him to have a better approach. And he went, it was like a blind panic

Blind panic =pain

 

[Bellaboo18]

He has had that. I was sending him to Sophie Seymour who is a very competent person who deals with problem horses

So xrays? scoped?

 

[Stingbably]

Blind panic =pain

Absolutely possible but he has been checked... so where do I go?

 

[Bellaboo18]

Absolutely possible but he has been checked... so where do I go?

Hes not had a workup though has he??

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

What did Sophie Seymour say when you went to her? I follow her on fb and she seems to have a reputation for doing best by the horse. I've sure I've seen a few of her posts where she has insisted on X-rays when suspected kissing spines and often turns out to be the case.

I know you say you've have physio etc but I would want a proper workup by a vet and probably some kind of scan/xray based on vets advice to see what is going on underneath.

I'd also take off all hard feed, as others have said balancer can make them a bit loopy and if he's not being ridden much now then no point.

 

[Rowreach]

Teeth and back checks are not a full veterinary workup though. Nor are horse whisperers and behaviourists the same as vets.

If he’s a former show horse then he won’t be green. His behaviour has all the hallmarks of a horse that has something serious going on and he deserves a proper investigation IMO, not blaming the person you bought him from.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I feel like I am stuck in a nightmare. I bought a horse end of December. I have been saving for this horse for 4 years after losing my horse of a lifetime after 19 years.
I enquired about a horse and stated I want an easy horse that’s not stressy ,or spooky out hacking, can jump me around at riding club level. I want something good to catch and shoe. I don’t want anything that bolts, naps rears or is very hard to stop. I would like to take him out and about so he needs to be good to load. I can put up with him moving off when he’s mounted as long as he’s not cold backed.The dealer stated that he ticked all boxes (I have WhatsApp messages)
She kept saying to me he will need time to settle, fair enough I am experience horse owner and would give him time to settle. Mount turned out to be a lot worse than was stated, I got a horse whisper in... and have really tried to be patient, had to get on with someone stood in front and slowly i would walk around him from the other side trying to desensitise him then slowly creep up, at first he would panic and shoot off, if I even could get him next to the block. This is improve over time. He was stabled at night at our livery yard and became increasingly bad to catch, had to keep a head collar on... he was extremely sensitive and stressy, I had lessons every week and just had to work on keeping him calm. Had him shod he was very stressy and next few time blacksmith had to take him in the stable. He’s head shy and sensitive to brush, shoots to the back of the stable when you enter, tried to kick me when I tried to brush his more sensitive side. Can’t hack him alone, he isn’t bad out hacking but takes a lot from the horses he is with. Then on lesson he was very very stressy and bolted. Full gallop around the arena 6 laps I tried to stop him or head him up a hedge didn’t work and no choice but to bail and he flung me into the hedge. So I contacted a professional to take him. He was there 2 days and did the same thing to her, she sent him back...
So I have contact the dealer, was good at first call, apologies it happened asked to take time to mull it over. I called her after the weekend and she said that isn’t the horse she sold, he was a gem...
he hasn’t been since I got him but I was trying my best, but bolting is not something I am prepared to work on, he is a dangerous horse.
She is trying to say she can take him back to sell him on my behalf, I refused this. Now she says she doesn’t have the money and can pay in dribs abs drabs when she sell a horse in her yard.
what do I do? Or has anyone been in this situation, I am having to pay livery for a horse I feel was missold. The dealer isn’t close either and travel cost would be £300, who should pay this? I have spent a lot of money on him so far anyway...
I am heartbroken, I worked so hard to save for a horse and now I have a horse I can’t ride and money leaking out of my pockets

i really feel for you, my friend bought a horse for the family and tried it, and then once paid for , found it was a companion horse only. There are some horrid people out there

 

[Stingbably]

Absolutely possible but he has been checked... so where do I go?

What did Sophie Seymour say when you went to her? I follow her on fb and she seems to have a reputation for doing best by the horse. I've sure I've seen a few of her posts where she has insisted on X-rays when suspected kissing spines and often turns out to be the case.

I know you say you've have physio etc but I would want a proper workup by a vet and probably some kind of scan/xray based on vets advice to see what is going on underneath.

I'd also take off all hard feed, as others have said balancer can make them a bit loopy and if he's not being ridden much now then no point.

She said she would take him but didn’t have space until June, which is why I sent him locally to see if with more work he improved.
I am trying to realistic, he has been checked by professionals, I haven’t gone down the route of vet X-rays, I have taken their advise though. I understand that it would be the course of action but I have only had him 4 months and bought from a dealer, do I open a can of worms? If the dealer doesn’t pay then I will. But I have evidence of what I ask the dealer if he was like and he is not. With a young family I do have to put my safety first, which until this point I have not.

 

[Upthecreek]

He has had that. I was sending him to Sophie Seymour who is a very competent person who deals with problem horses

What checks did the vet do? Are you insured for vet fees?

 

[Stingbably]

Teeth and back checks are not a full veterinary workup though. Nor are horse whisperers and behaviourists the same as vets.

If he’s a former show horse then he won’t be green. His behaviour has all the hallmarks of a horse that has something serious going on and he deserves a proper investigation IMO, not blaming the person you bought him from.

I have spoke to his previous home who showed him. He went to a qualifier, then RI and 1 county show.
I am not contradicting you that vets would be the next course of action, but it would be who is this the responsibility of.

 

[Stingbably]

What checks did the vet do? Are you insured for vet fees?

Yes he is insured

 

[Bellaboo18]

I have spoke to his previous home who showed him. He went to a qualifier, then RI and 1 county show.
I am not contradicting you that vets would be the next course of action, but it would be who is this the responsibility of.

In your position, I'd feel it was my responsibility as the owner of the horse.

 

[Michen]

Astounded at people suggesting the op should spend money on expensive work ups or insurance excesses.

The law is on your side. The dealer clearly knows they have sold dishonestly or they wouldn't have offered a penny back. Plus what kind of reputable dealer offers to re sell on a horse with that behaviour?

Put the horse on grass livery, file a court claim. I unfortunately had to do this 5/6 years ago when I bought a mare who had a known rearing habit from an absolutely vile dealer. I really feel for you.

As an alternative you could do what I did/nearly did. Have the horse valued by two indepdent professionals (in my case horse was valued at meat money), PTS, then sue the dealer for the difference.

Sad for the horse but if it's genuinely bolting, and it's a reoccuring thing, I think that's a very hard thing to truly fix and I wouldn't want to ride a horse whose reaction to pain was to bolt even if that was the cause.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Astounded at people suggesting the op should spend money on expensive work ups or insurance excesses.

The law is on your side. The dealer clearly knows they have sold dishonestly or they wouldn't have offered a penny back. Plus what kind of reputable dealer offers to re sell on a horse with that behaviour?

Put the horse on grass livery, file a court claim. I unfortunately had to do this 5/6 years ago when I bought a mare who had a known rearing habit from an absolutely vile dealer. I really feel for you.

I'm shocked at this, OP has had the horse for 4 months.

 

[Michen]

I'm shocked at this, OP has had the horse for 4 months.

But it sounds like the behaviour started quickly? It's not unfeasible for a dealer to "do up" a horse, horse is good for a bit and then starts to revert back to old or potentially deep routed behaviour.

Do you really think the dealer is honest, given they are happy to resell the horse, despite what it's been up to?

 

[Michen]

Also, what kind of decent show horse ends up skinny at a dealers yard. There's clearly a story here and I'd be amazed if dealer didn't knowingly sell on a problem horse.

Makes my blood boil but probably because of my own personal experience!

 

[Bellaboo18]

But it sounds like the behaviour started quickly? It's not unfeasible for a dealer to "do up" a horse, horse is good for a bit and then starts to revert back to old or potentially deep routed behaviour.

Do you really think the dealer is honest, given they are happy to resell the horse, despite what it's been up to?

I mean I'm filling in a lot of gaps but no I dont think the dealer was honest but I really think the horse should have been sent back along time ago.
I think there becomes a point you have to accept you've kept them past the point of return(?)
Something I find so annoying with these threads, is when people say they've had 'everything' checked therefore rule out pain but really they've had a physio out.
I do feel for OP but always feel more for the horse. A tricky situation for sure but I know what I'd be doing.

 

[Upthecreek]

Astounded at people suggesting the op should spend money on expensive work ups or insurance excesses.

The law is on your side. The dealer clearly knows they have sold dishonestly or they wouldn't have offered a penny back. Plus what kind of reputable dealer offers to re sell on a horse with that behaviour?

Put the horse on grass livery, file a court claim. I unfortunately had to do this 5/6 years ago when I bought a mare who had a known rearing habit from an absolutely vile dealer. I really feel for you.

As an alternative you could do what I did/nearly did. Have the horse valued by two indepdent professionals (in my case horse was valued at meat money), PTS, then sue the dealer for the difference.

Sad for the horse but if it's genuinely bolting, and it's a reoccuring thing, I think that's a very hard thing to truly fix and I wouldn't want to ride a horse whose reaction to pain was to bolt even if that was the cause.

So you would PTS a horse you have owned for 4 months without getting a vet to do a workup to rule out pain causing the behaviour when you have insurance to cover vet fees?

 

[Michen]

I mean I'm filling in a lot of gaps but no I dont think the dealer was honest but I really think the horse should have been sent back along time ago.
I think there becomes a point you have to accept you've kept them past the point of return(?)
Something I find so annoying with these threads, is when people say they've had 'everything' checked therefore rule out pain but really they've had a physio out.
I do feel for OP but always feel more for the horse. A tricky situation for sure but I know what I'd be doing.

I completely agree re physio not being a valid check.

But ultimately if you get the vet and the horse is found to have KS, lameness etc what's the OP meant to do? She's not going to want to keep and fix the horse (unless I'm mistaken). The end result will still be having to take the seller to court.

 

[Michen]

So you would PTS a horse you have owned for 4 months without getting a vet to do a workup to rule out pain causing the behaviour when you have insurance to cover vet fees?

No, I'd shove it in a field and take the seller to court. I was simply presenting an alternative option.

I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly), that the behaviour started very soon after purchase and is therefore not a new thing. The whole story sounds wrong, so I would make a fairly reasonable assumption on that- that the dealer has not been honest.

I would not be interested in starting veterinary work ups for a horse that has a likely long standing problem unless it was a "new" thing.

 

[PurBee]

So weird for the horse to go well, be peaceful when you tried him, then get him home and he’s a spooky monster.

Either the hard feed/balancer youre giving are incompatible for whatever reason (alfalfa sets some horses off, my mare goes loopy on a handful of oats) so quit all feeds except hay/grass for a week as an experiment...?

Or he was drugged when you tried him....to hinder that hyper spookiness he’s got.

Os your dealer on the dodgy list?

Maybe thats why he bolted at the jump? - you jumped him when he was sedated - he was freaked out being sedated but couldnt do anything about it, due to sedation, and now a jump freaks him out...? Just ideas as to why jumps make him panic now despite having a jumping history.

you have my sympathy...what a nightmare, and as always a horse with issues no-one can figure out, is at the centre of the drama. The horse dealer world just riles me.

 

[BaronSamedi]

You do not have 6 months. Your solicitor is wrong and you need one experienced in these cases not any old so and so

 

[Michen]

You do not have 6 months. Your solicitor is wrong and you need one experienced in these cases not any old so and so

Unsure on that, I guess it would depend if the buyer "rejected" the horse within 30 days? Agree, best to get professional advice ideally from an equine solictior though it's not cheap!

 

[shortstuff99]

I think she is right about the 6 month return as mentioned here https://www.whickr.com/blog/can-i-r...e-and-more-questions-answered-by-the-experts/

And a quote from the page

However, with any claim between a trader and a consumer, the sale will imply a term that any defect arising within the first 6 months shall be assumed to have been present at the time of the sale unless it can be proved otherwise.

 

[saddlesore]

What age is the horse OP? Just wondering if they’re young and potentially been over faced? I also agree with stopping all hard feed and supplements as a first port of call.

 

[millikins]

Astounded at people suggesting the op should spend money on expensive work ups or insurance excesses.

The law is on your side. The dealer clearly knows they have sold dishonestly or they wouldn't have offered a penny back. Plus what kind of reputable dealer offers to re sell on a horse with that behaviour?

Put the horse on grass livery, file a court claim. I unfortunately had to do this 5/6 years ago when I bought a mare who had a known rearing habit from an absolutely vile dealer. I really feel for you.

As an alternative you could do what I did/nearly did. Have the horse valued by two indepdent professionals (in my case horse was valued at meat money), PTS, then sue the dealer for the difference.

Sad for the horse but if it's genuinely bolting, and it's a reoccuring thing, I think that's a very hard thing to truly fix and I wouldn't want to ride a horse whose reaction to pain was to bolt even if that was the cause.

I disagree. It could also be that the dealer is in fact honest and thinks the horse has ended up in an unsuitable home and has offered to re sell to protect his/her reputation from further damage.
We only have one side of the story to go on.

 

[Michen]

I disagree. It could also be that the dealer is in fact honest and thinks the horse has ended up in an unsuitable home and has offered to re sell to protect his/her reputation from further damage.
We only have one side of the story to go on.

We do, but if what OP says is true and that the horse was sold to her in poor condition then that speaks volumes about the dealer.

 

[millikins]

We do, but if what OP says is true and that the horse was sold to her in poor condition then that speaks volumes about the dealer.[/QUOT

But I cannot agree that the dealer is "obviously dishonest" with no evidence.